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Looking around for some general chaos info and I see alot of people saying to always take obliterators and I dont quite understand why they seem to be the bees knees.

Well they are in terminator armor (but are slow and purposeful) and carry just about every heavy weapon the army can take aside from assault cannons. How's that for a start?

If you intend to take them in squads of 3, dont. Take havoks instead.
They're worth their points for a suicide unit at 1 oblit.
At 2 you're pushing it and better off with auto/las pred.
At 3, you're better off with 10 man havok squad with 4 autocannons or 2 of the said predators.

They carry every weapon, have 2 wounds, deepstrike, and run around in Termie armor

They work very well because they synergize well with Lash of Submission. Lash allows you to bunch enemy units up, and Obliterators pack Plasma Cannons. Nuff said.

Oblits are also fairly durable. 2+ saves and 2 wounds protect them against small arms fire fairly well, especially if you keep them at range. They do get easily smoked by things like Lascannons though.

Because they're Slow and Purposeful, they're also Relentless. A tactic that I often use with Oblits is to place them directly behind a wall of a ruin that blocks LOS. On my turn, I move them through the wall (you can do this with ruins), and fire whatever I like. This way, they're safe on T1 if your opponent goes first and if your opponent siezes the initiative.

If you want suicide units, Terminators are far more reliable. 3 Terminators with combiweapons is only a little bit more expensive than a single Obliterator. Take 3x3 and max out your Heavy Support slots if you're going to run them.

Since the codex came out I've never feilded an army without them. They are the jack of all trades.

Anti-tank, Anti-horde, Anti-MEQ, Anti-Termies, etc. They are expensive, but they can fill various roles, not only in your list but in the changing needs of the battle at hand.

I really enjoy combining their verstility with deep strike. If you're using them as a lascannon platform, go with predators.

I like leaving them in reserve, watching how the game is panning out, dropping them where I need them and unleashing merry hell. You also don't need to worry about risky deep stikes, because they can generally pop their target from range (Unless you're trying for melta/flamer)

They also have a psychological affect (effect? I always mix them up). Because everyone thinks they're awesome, you're opponent will worry about them, and it puts him off his A game (This works very well if they're in reserve)

terranarc wrote:If you intend to take them in squads of 3, dont. Take havoks instead.
They're worth their points for a suicide unit at 1 oblit.
At 2 you're pushing it and better off with auto/las pred.
At 3, you're better off with 10 man havok squad with 4 autocannons or 2 of the said predators.

Sooo this is basically all completely wrong. Obliterators are commonly taken in top level armies in groups of 3 and are definitely not comparable to predators or havoks.

Well, my EC army usually fields 6 Obliterators and they never disappointed me. Deep strike is an option, but I generally do not keep them in reserve. Deploying them in cover will increase their survivability. As said, they synergize well with lash Princes and they psychologically affect the enemy.

terranarc wrote:If you intend to take them in squads of 3, dont. Take havoks instead.
They're worth their points for a suicide unit at 1 oblit.
At 2 you're pushing it and better off with auto/las pred.
At 3, you're better off with 10 man havok squad with 4 autocannons or 2 of the said predators.

Also not only is this wrong, but it is correct for a different unit: terminators. Terminators are good as a 3 man suicide unit with combi-meltas, and not so useful in larger quantities. Luckily they occupy they moderately useless elites slot.

ph34r wrote:

terranarc wrote:If you intend to take them in squads of 3, dont. Take havoks instead.
They're worth their points for a suicide unit at 1 oblit.
At 2 you're pushing it and better off with auto/las pred.
At 3, you're better off with 10 man havok squad with 4 autocannons or 2 of the said predators.

Also not only is this wrong, but it is correct for a different unit: terminators. Terminators are good as a 3 man suicide unit with combi-meltas, and not so useful in larger quantities. Luckily they occupy they moderately useless elites slot.

Why is this wrong? Your damage out-put and durability are significantly higher with any of the choices he listed compared to Oblits. Oblits are a gap covering unit for armies that can't balance themselves properly. Show me some math or proof that says otherwise. "Top armies use them so they must be good" is the same argument I can make for Lesser Daemons.

Incidentally, Oblits are statistically only efficient when being used like Termicide, to make use of their short-ranged TLed weapons.

They are good. Take them depending what army you are against. You can take them in a usual chaos army and there is no need to spend points changing weapons to suit as they are all already there.

I personally think that they are a pretty big point sinker.... I run Blood Angels and I find them easy to trap in cc with my Assault Marines... sure the power fist hurts but my Sarge carries a power weapon of some sorts.... and taking out 10 will take forever, not to mention it will be 30 if you are facing Orks or Nids. I guess their point costs can be kind of justified because they look and sound so badass....

Diesel Stradin wrote:I personally think that they are a pretty big point sinker.... I run Blood Angels and I find them easy to trap in cc with my Assault Marines... sure the power fist hurts but my Sarge carries a power weapon of some sorts.... and taking out 10 will take forever, not to mention it will be 30 if you are facing Orks or Nids. I guess their point costs can be kind of justified because they look and sound so badass....

If 30 of da boyz charge your oblits, your either suicide deepstriking them, or your doing it wrong. Oblits Suck in CC. The only time you really want them in CC is to A) wreck a vehicle B) charge a unit being tarpitted by say a Dreadnought or C) charging into a close combat already going between a squad of CSM troops vs TEQ's.

Whilst I agree something like Assault Marines can snare them up pretty quick, I'd probably have mine in area/difficult terrain (so dangerous terrain for you(Hell I'd even chill out in dangerous terrain, as I have 2 wounds and an invul )) with a squad of zerkers in a rhino within charge range. Please, charge my oblits

Diesel Stradin wrote:I personally think that they are a pretty big point sinker.... I run Blood Angels and I find them easy to trap in cc with my Assault Marines... sure the power fist hurts but my Sarge carries a power weapon of some sorts.... and taking out 10 will take forever, not to mention it will be 30 if you are facing Orks or Nids. I guess their point costs can be kind of justified because they look and sound so badass....

Counting on your opponent to be an idiot is rarely a sound strategy. Here's the thing about Obliterators - they're just as good facing those boys or nids as they are going up against tanks or space marines. The ability to change weaponry on the fly, deepstrike, on top of the 2+ armor save is what makes them almost a no-brainer.

If you think obliterators suck then you are doing it wrong. Even taking 2 squads of 2 in combo with a lash prince is just rediculous. i lost 30 hormagaunts like it was nothing the first time i faced this combo. I have seen a dreadknight lose all 4 wounds on the first turn thanks to these guys. just the fact that you have all the heavy weapon options make them worth taking everytime.

Thanks I think I understand a bit better. I can see how they are good in a lash list. They just stand out as termis with 2 wounds and alot of guns. Which is great and all I just think they would be easy to deal with.

to be fair,my opponent tody lost 30 to a dreadnought.they were shot at and were out of synpase range so ran.next turn,thety passed the regroup tset but failed IB so charged the dread.the dreadfought back,killed 1 leaving 27 alive


I then proceded to roll a 6 for sweeping adfvance to his measly 2,so bludgeoed them all with seismic hammer and DCCW

Diesel Stradin wrote:I personally think that they are a pretty big point sinker.... I run Blood Angels and I find them easy to trap in cc with my Assault Marines... sure the power fist hurts but my Sarge carries a power weapon of some sorts.... and taking out 10 will take forever, not to mention it will be 30 if you are facing Orks or Nids. I guess their point costs can be kind of justified because they look and sound so badass....

Like others have stated, if they get hit by a horde of orks, they're doing it very wrong. If they suicide strike in, 3 TL flamers on the horde is going to do some damage, if they sit back and plug away, your gonna cop 3 plasma blasts a turn then the TL flamers if they're in range. Same deal with marines, plasma blasts, get too close TL plasma gun then charge with powerfists, those 10 guys aint going to last long. Their point cost is justified because they're good units.

Deadshot wrote:to be fair,my opponent tody lost 30 to a dreadnought.they were shot at and were out of synpase range so ran.next turn,thety passed the regroup tset but failed IB so charged the dread.the dreadfought back,killed 1 leaving 27 alive


I then proceded to roll a 6 for sweeping adfvance to his measly 2,so bludgeoed them all with seismic hammer and DCCW

I'm drawing a blank on what this has to do with obliterators in any way, shape or form....

wrong thread sorry.

They are good because they are never bad... No matter what army you are playing against they have a weapon to eat face... In my competative armies i run 3squads of 2 oblits, from 2000 pt tournies to ard boyz... I almsot always keep them in reserves and deepstrike them with icons... The reason they are the best Heavy in Chaos and easily one of the best in the game is simple. They never ever ever have to worry about not having the right gun.

You play against orks, lascannons for tanks, flamer/plasma for infantry.

MEQ, Multi-Melta, Twin plasma/melta, Plasma Cannon

Dark Eldar. Lascannons and heavy flamers/plasma cannons

Eldar, Multi Meltas, Twin plasmas....

They never come in and have nothing to shoot. They can abuse 5thed cover saves, are nearly immune to autocannons, missiles ect ect ect... Yes lascannon and meltas hurt. But lascannonas are few and far between and once your in melta range of chaos all of a sudden oblits are less scary since the zerkers and daemons are hungry.

They are the high end version of a swiss army knife, they are good in every situation, and often better than the standard choice.

IE:

Regular marines with plas guns are not TL and only recieve a 3+ against gets hot. Oblits reroll gets hot result and significantly reduce the chance of taking a wound. It takes three rolls of a one in a row to cause a wound, instead of one 1 and a 2 or less, not to mention that they will hit at a significantly higher rate and can shoot at max range after moving due to relentless.

Meltas: same deal, they are TL versus the option on regular or plague marines not being TL.

Las canon: can move and fire all the weapons, predators cant do this. predators can also be stunned/shaken preventing them from firing, oblits can NEVER be stunned/shaken.

Plas canon: the only unit in CSM that can take them and wont fire frenzy onto your own units. Also, relentless and can move and fire heavy weapons.

multi melta: again, only choice for this weapon that doesnt fire frenzy, and again relentless can move and fire this weapon.

Flamer: All other units with flamers are not twin linked and oblits are, unless you take a tzeench prince with warp time and wind of chaos.

They can deepstrike and fire any choice of weapon at full range or rapid fire due to relentless rules.

They can deep strike next to a unit with an icon and not scatter, guaranteeing great positioning for use of the correct weapon.

They ALWAYS have the correct weapon for the job and are simply better at using most of the weapons they have vs the other choices in the codex, ALWAYS! Not to mention the potential deadly combinations with other units like a lash prince! I personally dont use them, but its because i dont have the models yet, i occasionally borrow them from my friend and wish i had bought them insetead of my crappy LR, the worst version of the LR in any marine army....

A basic question is to let them deep strike (using icons) or let the start at the board.

Deep striking: If the army contains Rhinos and units with icons, then deep striking will be an option. Then they can bring their short-ranged twin-linked weapons to bear. The enemy has to deal with them ASAP, otherwise he might face more casualties or popped tanks in the next turn. In KP missions it is advisable to have squads of 2 or 3. A downside is that they might arrive (too) late.

Starting at the board: They can bring their long-range weapons to bear from the start, while their short-ranged weapons are eventually not applicable for the whole game.

Got to give respect for the oblits being a good choice for an all comers list.