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Those would be my concerns too Brass.

I don't mind paying that sort of dosh on a quality book that will last me for a lifetime. I baulk at something that has built in obsolescence.
Mostly on the grounds that is hard for me to justify the outlay.

Not having a dig at you chaps that will btw good luck to you lucky ers

zioN wrote:

mikhaila wrote:Dark Elfs running everywhere, and then his level 1 hiding out in a wizards tower tosses Purple sun with total power...

Heh, if a level 1 managed to get the spell, someone was a very lucky boi! And the amount of lords you can take with these new rules is pretty gud!

Welcome to Random Terrain! The wizards tower grants a mage who is inside/near it the chance to have all spells from his lore. That level 1 tossed a handful of dice at 1 spell a turn and made my life hell. Lore of death is not a nice thing. My other favorite was "All your units withing 24" are -1 str and toughness. "

For what it's worth, I've spent a couple of hours with it now and found it to be extremely sturdy.

Unbeknownst to most people, the 8th Edition Rule Book can double as a home-defense tool.

I'm waiting for the last Heavens Magic spell - Utter Destruction - drop rulebook on the table. Anything damaged is automatically destroyed with no saves allowed.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Has anyone said or noticed how sturdy and well built this behemoth of a rulebook is? I don't mind the price tag or the extra million pages of fluff, as long as it doesn't fall apart easily.

The sample book in my local GW shop is still in good shape after several days of much handling by many different people, but I also have the same concern. I find the occasional lack of quality to be more annoying than GW's pricing. I can live with their pricing when the quality is high, but on the few occasions it has been not it is most annoying. As we all know, the issue with the new printer of their army books spanning from the last Dark Elves release all the way up to the last Warriors Of Chaos release was most irritating and I still see books from that period falling apart out there with customers who don't realize Customer Service would replace those for them. The army/figure cases are my other complaint. The high price tag would be fine if they lasted forever, but the sturdy cases suffer from weak latches and hinges and I see broken ones all the time, often rendering expensive cases completely usesless.

If I buy this new $74+ WFB rule book I will be most careful with it. It's annoying enough that it will be obsolete in 4 or 5 years, but I'd really hate to have it fall apart before then. The fact that it is so thick, 528 pages and weighing 5 pounds, means that it could easily be damaged by its own mass if not handled carefully.

Seriously, my W.o.C book is a piece of gak quality wise, but my Beastmen Book probably didn't even need me binding it.

I don't mind paying that sort of dosh on a quality book that will last me for a lifetime. I baulk at something that has built in obsolescence.

Exactly. $75 or more for a book that I will never have to replace...maybe. $75 or more for a book with a pitifully short lifespan by design? Well you saw what I had to say about that earlier.

I still think this is going to hurt them. When 5th edition 40k came out I eventually caved and bought it when it was available at midnight, back when it cost $50. I felt dirty enough doing that, if it was $75 I NEVER would have bought it. I'd have either waited until the softback showed up on eBay or forgone getting it altogether. It's too much to spend for a rulebook that won't last.

So I saw the rulebook today.

O. M. G.

The thing is massive. If you like the content, it's worth every penny. It's beautiful.

Do I want to bring that to every game along with an army? No way. If I get back into WFB, I'll wait to grab a small starter set rulebook off of eBay.

Sidstyler wrote:

I don't mind paying that sort of dosh on a quality book that will last me for a lifetime. I baulk at something that has built in obsolescence.

Exactly. $75 or more for a book that I will never have to replace...maybe. $75 or more for a book with a pitifully short lifespan by design? Well you saw what I had to say about that earlier.

I still think this is going to hurt them. When 5th edition 40k came out I eventually caved and bought it when it was available at midnight, back when it cost $50. I felt dirty enough doing that, if it was $75 I NEVER would have bought it. I'd have either waited until the softback showed up on eBay or forgone getting it altogether. It's too much to spend for a rulebook that won't last.

Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, 320-page, hardback, cost £35 ...approximately 11p per page
Warhammer Rulebook, 528-page, hardback, cost £45 approximately 9p per page

If You want better value get the Battle for Skull Pass and grab the mini book (and sell on the models if you don't play those armies)

BrassScorpion wrote:If I buy this new $74+ WFB rule book I will be most careful with it. It's annoying enough that it will be obsolete in 4 or 5 years, but I'd really hate to have it fall apart before then. The fact that it is so thick, 528 pages and weighing 5 pounds, means that it could easily be damaged by its own mass if not handled carefully.

while the rules may be obsolete in 5 years or so, the majority of the book (at least from what has been reported here) won't as the fluff and painting/hobby sections don't stop working with a new edition. if 40k is any indication (my experience as i'm not currently a fantasy player), very few people use the big book during games. in my local group, only one person out of the 20 or so i've met playing there has ever brought the tome to a game; everyone else uses the aobr booklet. i suspect that those buying the big book instead of waiting for the little one/starter are significantly interested in those nonrules sections.

Won't there just be the same fluff in the 9th Ed too?

No point getting the Skull Pass coz it has the 8th Ed booklet

Seriously I will do as advised and try and pick up a small rules book from the Isle of Blood set that will be released shortly. Again I wasn't intending to be dismissive of others getting the Might Tome . TBH if I had the disposable income I might be tempted.

Have £25 in unused book tokens, wonder if GW would accept them towards the cost

The other consideration is that I don't get to play that much unfortunately and have no one to split the cost with. That is brilliant if you have a gaming group to do that with at the LFGS

Sidstyler wrote:Exactly. $75 or more for a book that I will never have to replace...maybe. $75 or more for a book with a pitifully short lifespan by design?

if it was $75 I NEVER would have bought it. I'd have either waited until the softback showed up on eBay or forgone getting it altogether. It's too much to spend for a rulebook that won't last.

$75 for a 4-year lifespan is $19/year. From the Warstore, it's $15/year.

Or course, if you just want the rules, you get a FREE rulebook if you buy the IoB starter in a few months.

Out of curiosity, have you looked at college textbook prices lately???

College textbooks are stupid expensive, too. I'm not sure I see your point though, what do college textbooks have to do with anything? How does it even compare to GW rulebooks, other than the fact that they're both, in fact, books?

Well no, I guess I see the relevance. Before long you won't be able to participate in the Warhammer hobby without government grants.

For those not in the know, college textbooks are very expensive, and have an even shorter lifetime than GW rulebooks.

JohnHwangDD wrote:For those not in the know, college textbooks are very expensive, and have an even shorter lifetime than GW rulebooks.

Don't even speak of Medical Textbooks....

Got some more time with the book today. A couple additional things.

The +1 for combat res based on height is only for charging units. And it is only for charging downhill. Basically, it reads that you get +1 if you charged and you started from a higher elevation.

Monstrous cavalry that are ridden use a combined profile now, but NOT monsters. Basically, from the bestiary, it looked like it included Dark Pegasus, Eagles, Royal Pegasus, etc. The smaller mounts. So for example, a sorceress on a dark pegasus now has a combined profile with 3 wounds (the higher total is used) and 3 toughness (rider's toughness is used). Rather than 2 wounds for sorceress at toughness 3 and 3 wounds for pegasus at toughness 4. On the other hand, monsters like dragons and manticores act basically the same as in 7th. You have to check the bestiary for what is considered a monstrous cavalry and what is a monster.

Fast cav do not shoot 360.

If you fail your leadership test to attempt to march when the enemy is within 8 inches, you still count as marching.

I think this has been mentioned, but it wasn't clear to me. Warmachines now have use the toughness of the machine and have wounds = the number of crew. Everytime the machine takes a wound, a crew dies. It has a save equal to the crew's save. In hand to hand, only 6 "points" worth of guys can attack it (6 infantry or 3 cavalry, or 2 monstrous infantry).

I think this also has been mentioned but wasn't clear to me. Monsters and handlers, for all purposes, hits and wounds are to the monster on its toughness. After you take a wound, you roll a die and on a 5-6 a handler dies. The handlers can attack in hand to hand anything the creature can attack. Otherwise they are completely ignored.

Hatred does not affect mounts anymore. The book is very explicit about what psychology affects mounts.

Stupidity always makes you immune to psychology.

As Jin pointed out I think in other threads, it is very clear that items that give you an irresistible or a miscast do not cause the opposite. So ring of hotek does not create a IF and the high elf item that gives you IF does not also give you a miscast.

Only one scenario really cares about banners. It's the one where if you fall below a certain number of points, then you lose. Banners are worth 1 point each (general 2). All the rest don't really care about core units or banners. 4 of the scenarios just use victory points. VPs are units (only full, no half), general, banners (less vp now) and having a unit champion kill a character. Nothing else.


I think there were a few other things but I can't think of them now


Also, can we skip the ramblings about the quality (which is very nice) and value (it is very high) of the rulebook and stick to the rules??

And again I ask, what's your point? Are you seriously comparing college textbooks to Warhammer rulebooks in an attempt to justify the price?

Why do you even care?

Buy it? Great.

Don't? Nobody cares.

I'm just trying to understand what the hell you're on about. You brought up textbooks and I'm not sure why.

The point is that textbooks are good for 3 months 6 if you are lucky I went to college more than 14 years ago some of my books ran $75-80 then and the store did not buy them back so a nice large book with colorful pictures and nice background fluff that will last some years is a good buy for me you don't think so well to each his/her own I am getting the collectors ed and that one runs $125

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:No point getting the Skull Pass coz it has the 8th Ed booklet

I know that but it'll be resold soon enough with the new book in.

Sidstyler wrote:I'm just trying to understand what the hell you're on about. You brought up textbooks and I'm not sure why.

As has been said. For the size and quality of the new rulebook, the price is very reasonable. But of course, you just drop into threads to whinge and make sweeping statements, so by all means carry on.

Sidstyler- there are more pages related to gaming (inc scenarios, bestiary etc) in the new book than there are total pages in the 7th hardback. I think that makes it worth the money on its own...

Mick

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As has been said. For the size and quality of the new rulebook, the price is very reasonable.

As one of DakkaDakka's resident haters, I can still only agree with the good Mad Doc. The book is beautiful. One of the highest quality books I've ever seen.

Do I think it's a good value as a rulebook? Not really. Very little of the book is actual rules and the fact that it's a big beautiful monster of a book makes it less than ideal for hauling to and from games.

While GW is too dumb to sell it's soft cover rulebooks for cheap, eBay sellers will fill the deman and everyone who wants a smaller, more portable version of the rules will be able to grab one off of eBay or your favorite bitz store.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I'm just trying to understand what the hell you're on about. You brought up textbooks and I'm not sure why.

As has been said. For the size and quality of the new rulebook, the price is very reasonable. But of course, you just drop into threads to whinge and make sweeping statements, so by all means carry on.

I've actually tried to sound as least "whiny" as possible when approaching this topic, and personally I thought I managed to express myself rather reasonably compared to how I've done so in the past (at least up until this point, but that's entirely YOUR fault Grotsnik). Instead of trying to fan the flames maybe you could just accept the fact that I don't think it's that reasonable and leave it at that? All I asked for was an explanation as to why the comparison to college textbooks was at all relevant when they're not at all the same thing.

Give me some time and I could probably find books even more expensive than college textbooks, would that mean you college guys wouldn't have a right to complain anymore or would you still be pissed that you have to fork out that much cash?

A more reasonable comparison that I would accept would be comparing the main rulebook for Warhammer with the main rules for any other miniatures game. At least then we're talking about the same thing, games, and not comparing it to something with far more "value" in the real world with completely different content that you're purchasing for an entirely different reason.

Stupidity always makes you immune to psychology.

This explains why my shrink is not making any progress with me!

I know that but it'll be resold soon enough with the new book in.

I thought that once the new starter set was released the Skull Pass set would be discontinued Tri ?
Already have a Skull Pass but it could be a way to boost my Dwarves and Gobbos.

How would I know if the box has the new rules, will there be a different box?

Am reading the book. Quite impressive. Inspiring even for veterans.
And if you don't care about background and modelling but only about winning, wait until the starter box comes out. Many Skaven players will sell lots of mini rulebooks.

@Chibi Bodge-Battle: Ever seen an old starte box sold by GW with new rules? No? Then don't expect that to change.

Kroot, I didn't think that would be the case and was surprised that this was suggested.

Killjoy00 wrote:I think this has been mentioned, but it wasn't clear to me. Warmachines now have use the toughness of the machine and have wounds = the number of crew. Everytime the machine takes a wound, a crew dies. It has a save equal to the crew's save.

What about machines (like the casket of souls) that say all hits on the machine are ignored? Machines that dont have a toughness value?

Kroothawk wrote:Am reading the book. Quite impressive. Inspiring even for veterans.
And if you don't care about background and modelling but only about winning, wait until the starter box comes out. Many Skaven players will sell lots of mini rulebooks.

But I'm the one who does nothing but make sweeping generalizations...

I care more about the game than fluff, doesn't mean all I care about is winning. How about you then, does that mean you want to lose?