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Like the subject says: Are MotF worth taking just to have Dreads as heavy choices?

Only if you want the elite slots for other things like hammernators or sternguard, and you desperately want dreads.

Or if you're running 6 dreads, though BA does a MUCH better job at all dread lists.

Not usually. If you find yourself spending the points on six Dreadnaughts, either you aren't spending enough points on Troops (which screws you over for objective-holding games) or you're playing an Apocalypse game (in which case you don't really need the Master of the Forge anyway).

The prime reason to take him, as far as I can see, is for the conversion beamer. 120pts for a S10 AP1 blast at 42"-72" range is pretty good.

It depends on the "visiion" you have for your army. I like the look and feel of a non-mechanized army... very old school. Marines, termies and dreads marching across the field or dropping from the sky in pods is a really neat approach to the army. In that case, the MoTF shift allows you enough elite slots for termies and sternguard to pull off a fairly effective army.

I would not, however... argue that it is a really competitive build. It is a fun build, and very visually effective. It can also win if played correctly. But it's far from a top-tier list.

MoF on a bike is a great, highly mobile gun platform. I've actually fielded 6 dreads before in a gunline list I made. It was fun to play, not completely competitive but fun and layed down fire pretty well and since they're cheaper than preds and LRs, there were plenty of points for tac squads.

Exclusively for that ability? No. However, he's worth a whole lot more than that. Bolster Defenses is a huge boon. With a Power Weapon, the Master of the Forge is no slouch in close combat (swinging 4 Power Weapon and 2 Powerfist attacks). Then keep in mind, he's got a Flamer and TL-Plasma pistol, so any shooting unit he rides with will benefit hugely.

Then, of course, there's the Conversion Beamer Biker build. That one's pretty damn nifty too, and can make better use of his repair function.

To really answer your question, a Furioso is basically comparable to an Ironclad. The former is better against infantry, the latter has shooting options (HS Missiles) and is better against vehicles. However, Blood Angels don't have access to Venerable Dreadnoughts. The effect is that Blood Angels are a close combat army, while Space Marines are ranged. There isn't a superior mode. Who'da thunk?

In the current list I am playing around with 2 of my elite choices are sternguard and assault termies (to back up my Termie libby) I remember hearing somewhere that dreads are not worth it if you can only field 1 (not counting a fully mech'd up list) So I thought I'd solicit dakka's opinions before committing to buying one.

In certain circumstances then, yes.

6 dreads is a very doable list, at least equal to BAs but maybe not quite as cool as grey knights.

Then there are alot of times when dreads will fit a list a lot better than vindis or preds or dev. squads whilst you have already filled your elite slots.

Gitsplitta wrote:It depends on the "visiion" you have for your army. I like the look and feel of a non-mechanized army... very old school. Marines, termies and dreads marching across the field or dropping from the sky in pods is a really neat approach to the army. In that case, the MoTF shift allows you enough elite slots for termies and sternguard to pull off a fairly effective army.

I would not, however... argue that it is a really competitive build. It is a fun build, and very visually effective. It can also win if played correctly. But it's far from a top-tier list.

This is completely off topic, but Gitsplitta, your avatar really reminds me of Unicron for some reason.

Well, usually I have something much more sane. A face shot of this guy...



However, I just painted that 'cron for my son and was pretty happy with the way he turned out... thought he had a really interesting look. So, a bit of a diversion from the usual.


I now return you to your intellectual discussion of the merits of MoTFs and Dreads, in both of which I wholly approve.

Sorry for the hijack.

MotFs are good HQs for a Gunline army where Dreadnoughts are a pivotel piece of the puzzle and so are non-dred elites.

I have a couple of articles here on Dakka that talk in depth about the subject. http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Category:Space_Marines_Tactica

Unit choices for a Space Marine gunline and Tactics for a Space Marine gunline

A master of the forge on a bike in the back of you deployment with 6 regular dreads with mulit-meltas and maybe flamers as well coming in via drop pods, plus 2 tactical squads in drop pods with meltas and power fists.

You can add a tad more to make a 1850 list, and it's devastating. Add vulcan for kicks (doable in an 1850) but even without that you basically show up and drop kick the enemy army. Then while they pick up the pieces and attempt to shoot at your dreads, all of which can be gaining cover from other dreads and/or drop pods, you then just move forward and destroy.

You can drop all 4 pods and put a plug on the enemies movement, forcing them to bunch up (great for conversion beamer) or come closer.

It does work, but only at 1850 points or higher.

Dammit, stop making me want to buy drop pods