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Thanks, Doc! That really informs my modeling decisions.

Maybe I won't do core Centigor after all, then. I'll have enough cariots to have core covered and then some (they do count for your basic core choices, don't they?), so maybe I'll have a unit or two for flanking. Seems like a good idea to have flankers that will be almost as tough as the chariots, to avoid giving away too many wounds in CC , so I'll still go with centigors over hounds.

Standard chariots, yes. Razorgor Chariots are Special, with no way to make them Core.

The standard spell, Bestial Surge might come in handy here, as it allows all friendly units within 6" of the caster to move D6+1", ala Orc Waagh! (toward closest enemy unit, f none visible, straight forward). Range is a bit short, but there is a Magic Item which extends that somewhat...

Yep. If Bray-shamen are still a bit burlier than your average magic user (and especially if a braystaff still provides either an armor buff or 2HW), I might mount some of them in chariots and put them with flankers. With enough chariots, that could get really awful.

Braystaff is just a handweapon these days sadly, but otherwise yup, they can have an Empire Captain in combat quite comfortably.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Centigor are the square route of 125 for each one, but come with Light Armour, Shield and Spear. Their 2 attacks are now proper attacks (like they did with Saurus) and they count fully as Cavalry. Drunken is somewhat improved, with no real downside (1-2 adds +2 to Initiative, as they are sober for once). Quite a tasty medium Cavalry choice in my opinion, but not sure they are hard enough on their own to be taken en-masse.

Do they still get the option for throwing axes? It appears nobody rates them for BoC Centigors, but it just seemed appropriate and Germanic. Though I'd have prefered a light cavalry with javelins option, but maybe I have just been playing Rome: Total War too much.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Centigor are the square route of 125 for each one, but come with Light Armour, Shield and Spear. Their 2 attacks are now proper attacks (like they did with Saurus) and they count fully as Cavalry. Drunken is somewhat improved, with no real downside (1-2 adds +2 to Initiative, as they are sober for once). Quite a tasty medium Cavalry choice in my opinion, but not sure they are hard enough on their own to be taken en-masse.

Y'might want to rethink that points cost guide, MDG - the square root of 125 is 11.18, which seems an odd points cost.....

Well, it's Monday morning and the web grots are back at work and finally put prices on all of the Beastmen merchandise on the website that went live last Friday.

Honestly, I can't believe how many times there have been major omissions and errors when new merchandise goes up on the GW Online Store since the new site went live in spring 2008. Even more surprising is that those errors are often left to stand for days before being corrected. You'd think the CEO or some other nobby executive would make heads roll when errors like that appear and have them corrected immediately, but nearly two years after the new site went live they still allow merchandise to be posted with no price for an entire weekend. That has to have a negative impact on their business and I can't believe management stands for it.

LuigiX wrote:Worst figures I've seen from GW. Really below their usual standard. I'm not talking quality of scupt, technical complexity, etc- from a purely asthetic point of view, they are awful and hard to look at. These don't look like they were made by the same company that just produced the Skaven line (maybe the same company that made the new SW wolf rider, though).

Craptacular.

I hope someone from Games Workshop is reading this thread.

If they are, just so you know, I've bought thousands of dollars worth of GW products over the past 14 years - but GW couldn't pay ME to field these models on a gaming table.

Using the word "disappointment" to describe this beastmen release is a huge understatement.

Let's hope Avatars of War produces more of their minotaurs.

Dysartes wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Centigor are the square route of 125 for each one, but come with Light Armour, Shield and Spear. Their 2 attacks are now proper attacks (like they did with Saurus) and they count fully as Cavalry. Drunken is somewhat improved, with no real downside (1-2 adds +2 to Initiative, as they are sober for once). Quite a tasty medium Cavalry choice in my opinion, but not sure they are hard enough on their own to be taken en-masse.

Y'might want to rethink that points cost guide, MDG - the square root of 125 is 11.18, which seems an odd points cost.....

This, combined with your avatar, made a wonderful smartassy post.

Greets
Schepp himself

Did a quick run of costs: New Doombull is twice as expensive as the old one five years ago, and still $16 more than the current model.

Old box that was $30 / $35 (depending on what year) for eight Ungors and twelve Gors, is now separate boxes of $25 for 10 of either. Cheaper technically if you only wanted one, but about $15-20 more if you wanted each. Questionable how much the new sprues are worth it.

Minos, meanwhile, are cheaper by about 50¢ from five years ago, unknown amount from before the new models. Plastic, so whether they're worth the price change (Much lighter and easier to assemble!) or not (They're not metal, why only 50¢ cheaper?) is up for grabs. Opinion of models aside, anyways (some people seem to love, others seem to hate, some think it's just their paint-job, etcetera).

On the plus side, besides maybe one or two monsters and having to rebase any pre-existing Ungors, current Beastmen players probably aren't going to have to buy gak tons of new units. On the negative, they're going to have to learn to play them in completely different styles, and armies that were heavily reliant on things such as Dragon Ogres are going to be SoL.

Minos, meanwhile, are cheaper by about 50¢ from five years ago, unknown amount from before the new models. Plastic, so whether they're worth the price change (Much lighter and easier to assemble!) or not (They're not metal, why only 50¢ cheaper?)

"Premium" troops usually stay about the same when they go from metal to plastic. Like the question about it, it's nothing new. Raveners: $20 each in metal, $44.50 in plastic. Terminators were about $10 each years ago in metal and stayed that way when they went to plastic. Greatswords had crept up to $50 in metal and are $41.25 in plastic. Bestigor...well, you get the idea.

All i know is chaos knights went from $50 to $25, and warhounds went from 2 for $10 to 10 for $22 when turning to plastic, and i dont see any reason (other than greed/ corporate pork barreling) that these minis would cost so much, regardless of the quality of the sculpt

Pricing is not solely based on the sculpt, it's also the "in-game value" coupled with the number the average collector/player is expected to purchase if they buy that model range. This is not new, it's been like that for many years. For example, it's why a tiny assassin model costs more than some blisters containing three larger models. Now how long till this question pops up again?

Oh yeah, and:

Bestigors. About $1.50 more expensive than they were five years ago, but - last I checked prices now - either $4 or $9 cheaper than they were before the fresh release, with the addition of command w/o requiring a Blister.

Most interesting thing though it confirms that Ungor are on 20mm bases so better get rebasing people! Grrr first army I've done scenic bases for utterly gacked. The prices also get my goat. Anybody know any good alternative sources for Beastmen?

hehe, i agree BrassS. which is why i mentioned the knights which can easily top 300 points with the boxes contents, are one of the best cavalry in the game (making concessions for blood knights and rhinox riders), and are a staple in any WoC army i have ever seen. They would equate to roughly 12 points per dollar, where as the ungor are around 2-3 points per dollar... most new players (in my area at least) dont have an infinite supply of money to construct new armies, and have their unit selections whiddled down by poor pricing by GW.

in terms of other "cheapest available core infantry"
24 skinks - $35
20 freecompany - $35
19 orcs - $35
20 zombies - $35
20 clanrats - $33
20 nightgoblins/goblins/gnoblar - $30
20 ungor - $50
i guess i just dont know what, if anything, would be causing these models to cost 30% more than the others

Wait, what? $50 Ungor? UNGOR?? The Beastman skink equivalent, minus poison, skirmishing and all that mess, are now $50 dollars?

GW must really want people to stop playing Beastmen (Formerly Beasts of Chaos). What a shame.

I guess it's near the same as buying two boxes of ten skeletons, but this definitely puts the new pricing strategy into perspective without the cheaper-for-less shenanigans.

I've got a feeling its got to do with VAT going back to 17.5%. That'll be the excuse anyway.
Found a good alternative Razorgor anyway http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/animal/latest/03208

Schepp himself wrote:

Dysartes wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Centigor are the square route of 125 for each one, but come with Light Armour, Shield and Spear. Their 2 attacks are now proper attacks (like they did with Saurus) and they count fully as Cavalry. Drunken is somewhat improved, with no real downside (1-2 adds +2 to Initiative, as they are sober for once). Quite a tasty medium Cavalry choice in my opinion, but not sure they are hard enough on their own to be taken en-masse.

Y'might want to rethink that points cost guide, MDG - the square root of 125 is 11.18, which seems an odd points cost.....

This, combined with your avatar, made a wonderful smartassy post.

Oops - that wasn't my intent, and I think I know what MDG was tring to say, but I was bored at work

I have a Jabberwocky available at my website, over at Blood Moon. Funny cause I made the beast 2 years ago just for the heck of it now all the sudden GW makes rules for one and the demand has skyrocketed. solid metal and big for only 30.00 US



Take care all.

With a little green stuff to fix the joints and probably a few cosmetic details to taste, that Jabberwocky would fit right in and look better then most of the newer models coming out. At first I thought the musculature was too well done to fit in, but the range is inconsisten enough for a few models made by someone with a good grasp of anatomy to be fine.

Sod the GW minotaurs have you seen these http://www.sciborminiatures.com/en_,monstrous_news.php?id=857#i/2010/big/minotaur_05.jpg!

Llamahead wrote:I've got a feeling its got to do with VAT going back to 17.5%. That'll be the excuse anyway.
Found a good alternative Razorgor anyway http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/animal/latest/03208

That IS a nice alternative Razorgor!

And really, with the 'official' one being so horrible, I'd bet that they'd even let that one in for 'official' tournaments too!

IG88 wrote:I have a Jabberwocky available at my website, over at Blood Moon. Funny cause I made the beast 2 years ago just for the heck of it now all the sudden GW makes rules for one and the demand has skyrocketed. solid metal and big for only 30.00 US

Very, very nice model!

Plus, it has the "GW Style Leering Tongue" too, so many people will believe it is the real deal too!

Llamahead wrote:Sod the GW minotaurs have you seen these http://www.sciborminiatures.com/en_,monstrous_news.php?id=857#i/2010/big/minotaur_05.jpg!

Now THOSE are shaping up nicely

The Minotaurs look a lot better when you have them in front of you. Those pictures on the GW site and that paint job make them look a lot worse than they actually are.

The worker at the local GW was painting them up yesterday, modelled with great axes. With a proper paint job the muscles on the legs, and the muscles in general do not look as awful as the GW picture.

But the back of the models are muscled He-man style, and so are their bare buttocks.

Scott_K wrote:

Llamahead wrote:Sod the GW minotaurs have you seen these http://www.sciborminiatures.com/en_,monstrous_news.php?id=857#i/2010/big/minotaur_05.jpg!

Now THOSE are shaping up nicely

I especially like the taunting description:

"3 days ago I saw pictures of new GW minotaurs. I decided that I like try sculpt my own vision of minotaurs as
dynamic and aggressive.
[...]
It is only 2 days of work and I will change some parts, other are unfinished, but I hope that overall conception is clear."

Imo, it's a good thing that gamers are free to choose minis of other producers for their armies. This should improve the overall quality of available sculpts.

Greets
Schepp himself

They're the first sculpts by Scibor I actually like.
Hopefully he'll keep the quality up as he finishes them.

The Scibor versions are much, much better. If I need to fill out my existing metals, I'll look there first.

It's very liberating knowing I won't be taking Beasts to any GW events and can therefore field the miniatures I want.

Any idea on how much the scribor ones will cost?

I"m not happy to hear that the minotaurs won't have a 'core' option anymore. That destroys my plans of an all minotaur army. I really don't want to have to field gors and ungors. Does anyone know if Gothor, the beastlord character who rides a chariot is coming back? If not, he may have to become just a regular charior for now. I am really glad to hear that there is a hero level minotaur though. Can't have too many of those guys in your army.

I also thought I'd point out that the Rhinox on the GW site as bits is $25, so if you like that better than the razor gor model, that might be a comperable route. Also, if have the forgeworld rhinox (which are amazing), but when you get them you get a bull ogre sprue as well. Toss some minotaur heads on them, and you've got a squad of Minotaurs for quite a bit less.