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Vladsimpaler wrote:Never has any one been so off the mark, even Mr Cruddarse...oops...Cruddace.

Could we please just stop the childish name calling ? Disagreeing over something is one thing, personal insults are a completely different matter.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Probably an upgrade.

In any case, we don't need Creed to be our big bruiser character Shummy. He's not anyway - he's a leader, not a fighter. And the reason we don't need Creed for this is because we've already got Yarrick!

T4 human w/FNP, Eternal Warrior and a Grimaldus/Living Saint-esque recovery from death. Yarrick is back, and is far improved from Yarrick-Lite in the current Codex.

And I couldn't be happier about that.

Okay, Yarrik hasn't been listed anywhere, but he exists (according to h.b.m.c. anyways) could gaunt be in there too?

Yarrick hasn't been listed? Did you read the French summary? Yarrick's the only guy there ('sides Ogryn-related units) that's T4! How could you miss him!!!

dammit. okay, me not so sharp this evening. This happens when I haven't had a good drink in a couple weeks.

First of all, Shuma:

The space pope, a "legendary super character"? You're putting the space pope on the same level of usefulness as fething Eldrad?

Second: I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to bring this up, but the god-damned valkyrie just got a price increase and it hasn't even been released yet?! It's fething $58. Seriously, what in the hell? WHY?! It doesn't even make a damn bit of sense, $58? What, were they afraid to make it an even $60, did they think they'd get away with it easier if they stayed a couple bucks shy?

Makes no god-damned sense whatsoever. The IG kit I was most looking forward to, the one thing that I thought GW could not possibly cock up after seeing the sprues and everything, and they fething COCKED IT UP. It never fails, I swear to god. And you know they had to have done it on purpose, they hyped the bs out of that model and got everyone excited and then they pull a battleboard. Let me guess, it was supposed to be $58 this whole time, the $50 they had on the website for over a week was a "mistake", I gotcha. And then when it goes up to $62 they'll say that was also a "mistake".

I really want a reason to like GW, but it seems like they're actively trying to piss me off. I'm not buying a single one now, I'm not going to be taken for a fool like that. You vote with your wallet people!

Buy it from internet bulk/reduction sellers or have patience and buy it from ebay, save money by waiting for the rabid fanboiz to compulsively purchase and then tire of the model. GW does not owe any favours to the customer here, they serve the shareholder and they will continue to make layoffs, close battlebunkers, reduce hobby content, use mass drivers in contravention of intergalatic law and finally, and most heinously, continue to raise prices.

Why did they raise the price of this model? Overheads? No, the reason is simple, feedback indicated a great deal of interest and excitement on this one model, they raised price because they weighed the options and realised they could and still get massive sales on it.

winterman wrote:

If the medic is truly +30 points, I don't see anyone taking them. FNP on five IG bodies is simply not very good.

If you are going el'cheapo with a base command squad, then ya no way. But lets say you've got the standard and have also added extra bodies like advisors and rumored bodyguards. Then ya 30 points doesn't seem so bad to keep that investment around for as long as possible.

But I guess for a few points more you can get a chimera 'force field' instead.

I came to the same conclusion. Since the role of the HQ is now to stand put and give orders ( forget the counter-attack heresy ), protecting them form enemy attention becomes vital. Depending on the final points costs and how far you want to go, you can make a decent "command bunker" for your HQ. Chimera w Camonet, some Bodyguards, necessary Advisors and a Medic on top. Expensive? Heck yeah but might keep your precious Colonel alive and functional.

The main thing I am wondering about at the moment concerning command squads is the cost of a master vox. If it ends up being too expensive I might just drop all voxes and take more infantry or command squads.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Buy it from internet bulk/reduction sellers or have patience and buy it from ebay, save money by waiting for the rabid fanboiz to compulsively purchase and then tire of the model. GW does not owe any favours to the customer here, they serve the shareholder and they will continue to make layoffs, close battlebunkers, reduce hobby content, use mass drivers in contravention of intergalatic law and finally, and most heinously, continue to raise prices.

Why did they raise the price of this model? Overheads? No, the reason is simple, feedback indicated a great deal of interest and excitement on this one model, they raised price because they weighed the options and realised they could and still get massive sales on it.

I don't care if it is cheaper elsewhere, I'm so disgusted I don't feel like owning one at all anymore.

ph34r wrote:The main thing I am wondering about at the moment concerning command squads is the cost of a master vox. If it ends up being too expensive I might just drop all voxes and take more infantry or command squads.

There's no such thing as a master-vox anymore. basically, if the officer's squad has a vox, and he's issuing orders to a squad that also has a vox, they get to re-roll their leadership test to see if they can act out the order.

Sidstyler wrote:Second: I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to bring this up, but the god-damned valkyrie just got a price increase and it hasn't even been released yet?! It's fething $58. Seriously, what in the hell? WHY?! It doesn't even make a damn bit of sense, $58? What, were they afraid to make it an even $60, did they think they'd get away with it easier if they stayed a couple bucks shy?

Makes no god-damned sense whatsoever. The IG kit I was most looking forward to, the one thing that I thought GW could not possibly cock up after seeing the sprues and everything, and they fething COCKED IT UP. It never fails, I swear to god. And you know they had to have done it on purpose, they hyped the bs out of that model and got everyone excited and then they pull a battleboard. Let me guess, it was supposed to be $58 this whole time, the $50 they had on the website for over a week was a "mistake", I gotcha. And then when it goes up to $62 they'll say that was also a "mistake".

Let me end your suffering.

Free shipping worldwilde. Discounts 365 days a year. A probable sale during Easter.

The US/UK exchange rate is in your favour, and I assume you were planning on getting more than 1? A $10 saving over 4-5 Valks is enough to buy another one...

So worry not.

Gentlemen there have been several reports about a particular poster. I have reviewed those posts. While annoying they are not trolling.

If you find a partiocular poster is annoying, utilize the IGNORE function key at the bottom right of each post. It will help. A lot. I know.

'Least I know it's not me this time...

Hm, might've been me this time around. My mood's been all over the place lately.

A-P wrote:

winterman wrote:

If the medic is truly +30 points, I don't see anyone taking them. FNP on five IG bodies is simply not very good.

If you are going el'cheapo with a base command squad, then ya no way. But lets say you've got the standard and have also added extra bodies like advisors and rumored bodyguards. Then ya 30 points doesn't seem so bad to keep that investment around for as long as possible.

But I guess for a few points more you can get a chimera 'force field' instead.

I came to the same conclusion. Since the role of the HQ is now to stand put and give orders ( forget the counter-attack heresy ), protecting them form enemy attention becomes vital. Depending on the final points costs and how far you want to go, you can make a decent "command bunker" for your HQ. Chimera w Camonet, some Bodyguards, necessary Advisors and a Medic on top. Expensive? Heck yeah but might keep your precious Colonel alive and functional.

It's actually sad if the tech-priest can't get the Bolster Defenses rule, because it'd play well into this sort of thinking. He'd be the infantry equivalent of a Camo net.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Hm, might've been me this time around. My mood's been all over the place lately.

A-P wrote:
I came to the same conclusion. Since the role of the HQ is now to stand put and give orders ( forget the counter-attack heresy ), protecting them form enemy attention becomes vital. Depending on the final points costs and how far you want to go, you can make a decent "command bunker" for your HQ. Chimera w Camonet, some Bodyguards, necessary Advisors and a Medic on top. Expensive? Heck yeah but might keep your precious Colonel alive and functional.

It's actually sad if the tech-priest can't get the Bolster Defenses rule, because it'd play well into this sort of thinking. He'd be the infantry equivalent of a Camo net.

Yes, some form of "Bolster Defences" would be nice. Digging trenches and foxholes should be something that is SOP for the Guard. Unfortunately nothing in the rumours indicate the Tech-Priest is getting one.

Regarding Master of Ordnance: I see him as something of a psychological weapon rather than a steady tactical weapon. It'll keep opponents firing lines/backfield HQ's guessing and worrying more about my CHQ than perhaps my LRBT squadron advancing. Not bad for 30 points, but not really effective for opponents other than hordes. He'll be good at first as a distraction before players begin to realize his true lack of effectiveness. Then again, with the meta-game swinging towards hordes, he might get better as time goes on.

Moloch wrote:
Could we please just stop the childish name calling ? Disagreeing over something is one thing, personal insults are a completely different matter.

QFT

ShumaGorath wrote:

No, I'm saying your posting drunk. Which is dangerous because you lose sight of your point and just start shouting at people.

Well, now I know what it is like to argue with a brick wall. It's kind of sad when you have to start insulting people.

What does any of this have to do with my wanting creed to be a 200+ point leader of legendary ability? How does my wanting him to be a supercharacter that is worth his points warrant all this nerdrage? HBMC understood what I was saying, and the two of us usually communicate like there some sort of creepy funhouse window between the two of us.

To be totally honest, it came across as you thinking that Creed needed to be really expensive as he gave out 4 orders a turn and the like. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Vladsimpaler wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

No, I'm saying your posting drunk. Which is dangerous because you lose sight of your point and just start shouting at people.

Well, now I know what it is like to argue with a brick wall. It's kind of sad when you have to start insulting people.

What does any of this have to do with my wanting creed to be a 200+ point leader of legendary ability? How does my wanting him to be a supercharacter that is worth his points warrant all this nerdrage? HBMC understood what I was saying, and the two of us usually communicate like there some sort of creepy funhouse window between the two of us.

To be totally honest, it came across as you thinking that Creed needed to be really expensive as he gave out 4 orders a turn and the like. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

It came across like that because you didn't really read his post. Your dakka honourific of "Horrific Howling Banshee" seems to be fairly apt when it comes to these IG rumours/facts. Very little of substance contained in your posts, and little respect for other viewpoints. You need to relax.

I am well aware of the irony of telling someone else to post decent content while contributing none myself, so i'll bow out with that.

p.s. You wearn't arguing, with a brick wall or otherwise. You were raging. Perfectly fine in moderation of course, but it's generally better to aim it at an abstract or an idea rather than a person.

ShumaGorath wrote:
I see you're not using firefox!

Actually I am using firefox, although I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

The price hike, while irritating, isn't exactly surprising. (Especially considering the Realm of Battle fiasco not too long ago.) There have been rumblings from the rumor mills for some time about the actual price being in the $55-60 range.

Perhaps another factory error raised the cost of production? That would be awfully convenient.

It's still substantially less than the Forgeworld one though so I suppose I can't complain too much.

I'm seeing the power IG builds to include

2x Executioner with Inquisitor with 2x Mystics
2x Vendettas
2x Leman Russ Main Battle Tank
Company Commander in Chimera with Master of Artillery that sits behind the Executioners

Those units would cover everything you need from Hordes/MEQ/Anti-Tank. Fill in the rest of your army to fit what ever fluffy units you wish to take.

anyone thought of vendeta spam?

would probly be murder vs vehicles, but no so much for hord.

thoughts?

How much is spam? A squad of 3 would all have to fire at the same target remember. I can't see squadrons of more than 2, and only 1-2 of those in the army.

Frazzled wrote:Gentlemen there have been several reports about a particular poster. I have reviewed those posts. While annoying they are not trolling.

If you find a partiocular poster is annoying, utilize the IGNORE function key at the bottom right of each post. It will help. A lot. I know.

But then I'll be all alone again .

anyone thought of vendeta spam?

would probly be murder vs vehicles, but no so much for hord.

thoughts?

Three vendetta (vendettas?) could tank shock an entire army every turn once they were finished killing it's tanks.

Grimaldi wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:
Frankly, the closest I've come to a build list so far is:

1x CHQ w/ 3x Melta in a Chimera
2x Vet Squad w/ 3x Melta in Chimeras
3x LRBTs (1 w/ Knight Commander Pask)
3x LRBTs
3x LRBTs

Looks like about an 1850 point list? I'm thinking of something roughly like:

Company HQ with meltaguns, advisor that gives +1 to reserve rolls
6 vet squads with meltaguns
mix of 9 valks(lascannon, multiple rocket launchers) and vendettas

I'd like 9 vendettas, but might cause issues against infantry heavy lists. The valks with multiple rocket launchers, though, should do fairly well against them. Maybe 2 vendettas and 1 valk per squadron to ensure some redundancy. Don't have my rulebook handy, but if the "scout" rule allows outflanking for personnel onboard, too, it could be nasty, which is why I would include the advisor.

Yep, that was ~1850. Only problem here is that the latest rumors say that you can't mix and match your Valks and Vendettas - one or the other only in a squadron. That's definitely a flying circus list. Once you take out the heavy weapons that'll give you problems, just run circles around them using SMF to keep from getting killed.

Not to mention the traffic jam 9 Valk models on a table will give you.

A-P wrote:

winterman wrote:

If the medic is truly +30 points, I don't see anyone taking them. FNP on five IG bodies is simply not very good.

If you are going el'cheapo with a base command squad, then ya no way. But lets say you've got the standard and have also added extra bodies like advisors and rumored bodyguards. Then ya 30 points doesn't seem so bad to keep that investment around for as long as possible.

But I guess for a few points more you can get a chimera 'force field' instead.

I came to the same conclusion. Since the role of the HQ is now to stand put and give orders ( forget the counter-attack heresy ), protecting them form enemy attention becomes vital. Depending on the final points costs and how far you want to go, you can make a decent "command bunker" for your HQ. Chimera w Camonet, some Bodyguards, necessary Advisors and a Medic on top. Expensive? Heck yeah but might keep your precious Colonel alive and functional.

Here's the problem I see. You start loading up the CHQ with lots of advisors and bodyguards, etc. and you start getting bloat. Too many points spent on a single unit (which, frankly, IG can't really afford - you really need to be spending those points on heavy/special weapon delivery systems, i.e. infantry, and pie plates.) And Orders may be good, but spending all those points just to keep him alive, I think, will be overkill.

...ooooh....Chimera with Camo-Net. That's what I can do with those crappy beat up Chimera I got in a trade recently...No need to do all that work fixing up the back end. Just do a Grey Death-style camo tarp over the back and call it good!

ShumaGorath wrote:Three vendetta (vendettas?) could tank shock an entire army every turn once they were finished killing it's tanks.

Err. Did GW ever rule if non-tanks can tank shock?

Thimn wrote:I'm seeing the power IG builds to include

2x Executioner with Inquisitor with 2x Mystics
2x Vendettas
2x Leman Russ Main Battle Tank
Company Commander in Chimera with Master of Artillery that sits behind the Executioners

Those units would cover everything you need from Hordes/MEQ/Anti-Tank. Fill in the rest of your army to fit what ever fluffy units you wish to take.

you can get standard russ's with plasma sponsons for the cost of a basic executioner which trades 1 plasma shot for the battlecannon. I have a feeling that will be the better buy.

ubermosher wrote:Not to mention the traffic jam 9 Valk models on a table will give you.

Tru dat, yo. Although I imagine if they're roughly the size of a Land Raider, then it's not much worse playing Mech IG and floating 12-14 Chimera out on the board...although all those tippy flying stands could be dangerous. Hope they're stable!

Oh, and I've been meaning to say this for about five pages now, but all this discussion about Creed being the new mandatory special character for the Guard? It has merit, definitely. But I just want to point out that before the Space Marine codex came out and the rules for Marneus Calgar were leaked, everyone was all up in arms over how good he was and how he'd be mandatory in every Space Marine list....mind you, I recognize that with the publishing of the SM codex that there is a mandatory special character in SM armies...it just doesn't happen to be Calgar. So maybe Creed will be mandatory, but I'm not putting money on it being him over someone else.