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mikhaila wrote:Just got a confirmation on a couple of 'nid out-of-stocks:

-GW is out of the battleforce, none available for order.
-GW is out of the codex, with no plans to reprint.

There's a big sales meeing going on in LV right now. This sometimes means new information right after. If I hear anything definite from my sales rep, I'll post. My best guess is like everyone else's, nids in Jan/Feb.

I was thinking it was going to be later, with Space Wolves & Skaven on their way shortly...

I guess this means that once again (probably should have seen it coming), DE is being pushed to the back burner.

March release - or whenever the second release of the year typically is (two months after the last big one, so if Skaven is Jan...).

Honestly, I'm in two minds about a new 'Nid. Three minds actually.

1. I dread the prospect of a new Codex because things will be taken away for no reason, they'll swing that pendulum hard (probably as hard as they did with Marines), and we'll get another Jervis-pattern confusing Codex where there are rules for biomorphs scattered throughout the book on random pages, we'll have a dozen special characters that change your army, and all the stuff that's good now (or passable now, since 5th) will be bad, and all the bad stuff will be awesome. Not looking forward to the new Codex at all.

2. New models are something I am looking forward to. I might've disliked the new Guard Codex, and I might hold a raging inferno of ultimate sun-hot fury in my heart for the fething hopeless Chaos Codex, but I loved the new kits. Possessed, Spawn, the recut Chaos Marines (my fav kit of all time), the Valk, Command Squads, new Sentinel - all of them are ace. The idea of getting new plastic 'Nids sounds great, especially if there's a plastic Trygon and/or Gargoyles in there.

3. The third mind is that I, personally, don't want any more models. I have so many fething Tyranids it's insane. I've been playing them since before they even had a Codex. My first Tyranid 'Codex' was the Rogue Trader army list that was in White Dwarf. I have heaps. I have as many Genestealers as most people have Gaunts, and almost three times as many Gaunts! I have as many Tyranid Warriors as most people have Genestealers! And yet I own not a single Biovore... weird... Point is, more new models is just going to require more space, and I don't think I can do that.

Ever want to get rid of some of your 'Stealers on the cheap HBMC.....as in $1US per 'stealer I'll take some off your hands. You can keep the 'gaunts though. LOL.

With any new release I look more to the new models than the actual rules so I look forward to new units and the "official" plastic Trygon, even though it's more or less been staring us in the face since Apocalypse.

I have six Lictors. Three first version, two second, and one current. Want to get another of the current ones yet as they were cast from pure awesome.

Got varryi g verso s of other nids as well as I've updated a d replaced figs if I like the newer one enough.

Fateweaver wrote:Ever want to get rid of some of your 'Stealers on the cheap HBMC.....as in $1US per 'stealer I'll take some off your hands. You can keep the 'gaunts though. LOL.

I'm one of those people who never sells a model. I may own more Genestealers than I have room for (plus the 22 I just got in Hulk), but I love them all... even the Monkey-Nostril Battle for McDonald's ones.

Fateweaver wrote: With any new release I look more to the new models than the actual rules so I look forward to new units and the "official" plastic Trygon, even though it's more or less been staring us in the face since Apocalypse.

See I don't think we have. I don't think we're seen the plastic Trygon. I think we're seen the prototype plastic Trygon, similar to how we saw the prototype Stompa in the Apoc book and the prototype Bastion in the 5th Ed rulebook - but the actual plastic Trygon, probably no pics of that yet.

Aduro wrote:I have six Lictors. Three first version, two second, and one current. Want to get another of the current ones yet as they were cast from pure awesome.

I have 6 as well, but 4 of them are the originals, with the last two being the current one (one being the one from the army box). I own none of the 3rd Ed ones as they are horrible.

Can't be bothered to read the entire thread to see if this has already been mentioned, but would love to see a return of "Jones is acting strangely" in some form or other. That would seal the deal for me

EDIT - For those not familiar with this rule from the 2nd Edition Codex, think the chestbuster scene in Alien

To be honest, I'm worried about the new Codex too... as much as an update will be nice, I have a bad feeling that it's going to be more harm than good.

I think the new Trygon will come out as a second wave release, to reel in the ones who weren't going to buy new 'Nids, but now have an excuse... maybe a recast of another big model might do it *insert Biovore with ridiculous rules here*

They'll probably top the power curve with the new Nids, and present an "organic" codex with more of an effective answer for the plethora of armor and the risk of stacking templates to pure organic armies, buuut ...

As per other posters, I *fear* they'll demolish the popular things as per the business routine, and we'll be forced or urged to go toward gargoyles / biovores / lictors / etc. ... and that's just annoying if it's what happens.

*shrug* and wait

They'll probably write new fluff to illustrate how Lictors evolved to attack enemy armor from the rear with melta-claws, and that we should all be happy to have such an amazing way to deal with tanks. The rules that currently require a Lictor to roll on the deepstrike mishap table just to enter play will not be changed.

I'm excited about the new codex.

But I've given up on them getting Lictors right, even as the Broodlord got the statline they should have, and other codexes like IG have units that are actually effective in the "lone stalker" role (Marbo).

I think Warriors, Biovores, Gargoyles and Rippers might get more interesting. But Lictors? That ship sailed in 1998.

I'm all for new Codecies, but I think they should have focused their energies elsewhere. Like say... in the direction of the DARK ELDAR... or some other forgotten army.

Since that will probably never happen, the other thing that bothers me about a new codex is it's usually more powerful (or seemingly, anyways) than the last one.

Marines of course ignore this rule

of course it will be more powerful, and mid range nids (warriors, lictors, raveners) will probably get boosted to the point where they become useful, so much so that it isn't automatically a nidzilla build, which is good for the army and for the hobby.....predictable builds for specific races are definitely boring....

I reckon nidzilla will go TBH.

We are going to be losing Elite carnifexes, but they are gonna be moved to heavy support as "light carnifex squadrons" where you can form a unit of 1-3 models, and there will be a separate entry for "heavy carnifexes" that can get bio-cannons like Heirophants to fix the fact that venom cannons can't penetrate. I heard it from my cousin who dates a guy who's boyfriend's brother is Jervis's neighbor's best friend, so I have it on pretty good authority.

Hmmm...9 cheap Carnifexes per army...yeah, that seems pretty balanced, though GW will probably make them Deep Strike and able to assault off said Deep Strike just to keep them selling.

With the armor walls that some armies can put out these days we'd probably need 9 Carnifexes to make any headway. A Leman Russ executioner could easily account for one of them a turn, and probably gut a Tyrant/Guard unit in one volley. 5th edition Melta Madness doesn't help their chances either.

I think H.B.M.C. has summed up my view pretty well - other than the numbers involved.

broods of carnifexs


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broods of carnifexs

i think the new cretues will be better then the rest as these will need to sell if there is any kits for them


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I think the new cretues will be better then the rest as these will need to sell if there is any kits for them

I can't wait for biovores to be useful again... and redone to be less fuggly. Os cool as the background for them having orkoid DNA is, they've just never found a way to avoid the orkified biovers looking really, really dumb. I just cut mine up and added gaunt bitz in frustration.

As for nerfing Nidzilla: They may downgrade them, but odds are against the option for that number of carnifexes becoming unfieldable. 6-Carni/30-Stealer armies are good money (and we all know that's a major factor in codex design).

You'd have to go out of your way to make Tyranids worse than they currently are.

Seriously, even Phil Kelly admitted in WD that the only things in the army worth a damn are fexes, tyrants, and genestealers, and even those suffer from quite a few problems.

Looking foward to the new codex. I get to redo most of my Talking About Tyranid videos, but maybe now I can actually play horde Tyranids without it being a useless army. I pretty much shelved Tyranids until this comes out. More bugs to paint as well....

Broken Loose wrote:You'd have to go out of your way to make Tyranids worse than they currently are.

Seriously, even Phil Kelly admitted in WD that the only things in the army worth a damn are fexes, tyrants, and genestealers, and even those suffer from quite a few problems.

Wow, just wow. I don't do tournaments but I'd hardly say the 'nids are that bad and I do play against competent players in my group. Yep, I win more than I lose, guess that really proves that 'nids suck.

Fateweaver wrote:Wow, just wow. I don't do tournaments but I'd hardly say the 'nids are that bad and I do play against competent players in my group. Yep, I win more than I lose, guess that really proves that 'nids suck.

Oh, okay, fine, let's prove this. Why don't we take a look at one of our units and put it to the test.

The Hormagaunt is single-minded in its engineered purpose of closing with the foe and eviscerating it with its scythe-like claws.

We have here a model with no guns and a pair of close combat weapons. It's described as a single-minded killing machine for close combat. Let's put it against some other units, no charges, in equal point values.

A tactical squad of 9 marines and 1 sgt for 170 points, vs. 17 hormagaunts for 170 points. No charge to make things fair. While you can say "the hormagaunts have a larger charge range" it's just as easy to say "the marines have a rhino."

Simultaneous attacks!
17 hormagaunts make for 34 attacks (hit on 4+), 17 hits (5+ to wound), 5.6_ wounds (3+ save), and 1 and eight-ninths of a dead marine.
9+1 marines make for 11 attacks (4+), 5.5 hits (3+), 3.6_ wounds (6+), and slightly over 3 hormagaunts dead.
Huh. The hormagaunts lost in combat to tactical marines who aren't necessarily known for their close combat prowess. Why don't we throw some biomorphs on them?

Both adrenal glands and toxin sacs. +4 points a model. That's 12 hormagaunts and they come up 2 points shy of 170.

Hormagaunts go first. 12 hormagaunts make for 24 attacks (3+), 16 hits (4+), 8 wounds (3+), and 2 and two-thirds dead marines.
6.3_+1 marines make for 8.3_ attacks (4+), 4.16_ hits (3+), 2.7_ wounds (6+), and 2.3_148_ dead hormagaunts. In other words, they tied. But I thought they were supposed to be single-minded killing machines? Marines aren't even combat-focused, as they have BS4 and great guns!

What about other CC units? 12 regular hormagaunts (120 points) versus 20 ork boyz (120 points). This is gonna be ugly with extra uggles. At least the boyz won't get furious charge as a bonus (even though they have a large charge range and rightfully more opportunities to do so).

Hormagaunts go first. 12 is 24 attacks, 12 hits, 4 wounds, and a 6+ save isn't liable to bounce those off. 4 dead boyz.
16 boyz go second. 48 attacks, 24 hits, 12 wounds, and 2 of those get saved. If the hormagaunts are in synapse range, the remaining 2 hormagaunts take 6 no retreat saves. Otherwise, they're near guaranteed to break.

Okay, let's do this. 16 hormagaunts, 160 points. 10 Necron warriors, 160 points. The hormas gotta win this, right? They're Necrons!
Hormas first, 32 attacks, 16 hits, 5.3_ wounds, 1.7_ Necrons fall over.
Warriors second. 8.2_ attacks, 4.1_ hits, 2._740_ wounds, 2.284~ dead hormgaunts.
That's right. They lose to Necron warriors.


Or why don't we consider regular gaunts, who are more expensive than guardsmen, have the stats of guardsmen, have the armor of ork boyz, and to top it all off have to be babysat by an HQ unit or they lose their scoring status? Or how about Tyranid warriors, who can easily exceed terminators in price but perform roughly on the level of regular marines? Or the broodlord, who is the worst infiltrator in the game and the poster child for the rending nerf? Or gargoyles, who only look so good because everything else is so bad? Or biovores, who got nerfed when they weren't used enough in 3rd edition? Or raveners, who can deep strike only to be killed by bolters without even a saving throw to their name-- or are supposed to be nimble assault monsters but can't go up stairs? Or lictors, who have a 1 in 6 chance of impaling themselves on trees just for deploying and get clubbed to death by bolter butts on a regular basis?

At least tyrants are good, even if some of their wargear (Shadow of the Warp) benefits the enemy army to take without even having the decency to provide the same benefit to your own army. And fexes are good but overhyped; they would be worth player complaints if they had invulnerable saves or WEREN'T INITIATIVE 1. Who pays 85 points for a powerfist? Oh, that's right. We do, and it's one of our best units, so much that all the other players hate it and claim it as unfluffy despite codex stories to the contrary.

The whole codex is overcosted, we have a single scoring unit in the whole book and it got its only weapon nerfed because GW whored it out to every army in the galaxy, we have no anti-tank in a tank-heavy edition of the game, we have the slowest army in the game (only Necrons and Daemons don't have transports-- the latter entirely deploys by deep strike and the former can teleport at will around the table), and we're a laughingstock to the rest of the game. All the other players say "Of course you don't suck, X Tyranid player won Y tournament last week" while keeping mum that they were using Nidzilla, the only viable list in the codex, the EXACT ONE THEY WANT REMOVED FROM SAID CODEX. They also go on about how stealers and fexes are amazing: anything is amazing when you field an army of nothing but them because you have no other choices. Necron warriors are SM who get back up on a 4+, 80-100 of them can fit comfortably in a tournament-sized list, and that list is annoying as hell. Does that make them not suck? Well, no, they're really quite poor in today's environment.

Go on. Give your anecdotal evidence of how this one time you used a lictor and 60 hormagaunts to beat everybody in a tournament without mentioning that not a single mechanized army was fielded in the tournament for fear of looking like a "power player." I'll be sitting over here with an actual copy of the codex and the Truth sitting next to me. Yes, the Tyranids need an update, 5th edition has done quite a number on them.

Wow, didn't say I was a tournament player.

Who the hell deepstrikes Raveners anyway? If you think it's all they are good for then nothing you can say after this post is even worth considering. 4 Raveners cost with ST/RC cost 200, 10 assault marines cost 220 naked; 6 of them will die before they even strike; the Marines will inflict one wound, lose by 5 and either fall back or get caught and lose another 1 to no retreat, next turn that squad is gone (the assault squad that is). They are a glass cannon, don't deploy them out in the fething open in LoS of every gun in the opponents army and they will probably see a 2nd turn charge for sure...duh.

Zoanthropes do what I want them to do..provide more synapse, can actually handle being shot at by most guns and also provide the leadership penalty with Scream.

I take lictors as I like to hold my stealers in reserve and outflank them, rerolling reserve rolls is huge....not 80 pts huge but still a boon and my group doesn't make me take dangerous terrain test as we all agree it's silly and even if you are forced to it's a 16% chance to wound yourself so in 6 games you'll suffer a wound....oh wow, so awful.

Biovores can't comment as I don't use them, same for gargs.

Hormogaunts I agree suck.

Carnifexes....unless you run an elite screamer killer who the hell leaves them I1? No list I have seen run heavy carnies without the I upgrade.

It's easy to discount 95% of the codex as crap when you leave everything naked or analyze it under less than ideal conditions. Wow, IG must suck because the lasgun cannot wound a Wraithlord. Oh I know, lets drop Wraithlords to T6 so IG can have a chance to kill it in both cc and shooting.

"less than ideal?"

Assaulting Necron warriors with dedicated CC units is less than ideal? What are YOU smoking?



Also, yeah, sure, blow the whole thing off with "I'm not a tournament player." That's about as valid as people who don't want to play social security taxes because they're not on social security. The game has to at least attempt balance or even your fluffhammer funtime kindergarten games will start sucking.

I have to agree with Broken Loose on this one. Tyranids are pure garbage. Even Nidzilla, the best build we have, isn't really all that strong in the grand scheme of things. Too many of the units in the codex are simply unusable, and everything is horrendously overcosted. It's amazing how badly 5th edition rules dismantled the bugs.

Yeah, I found the Nids a massive disappointment. I was growing bored of having only a couple of viable units and a single viable list with the Sisters, so I looked at Nids. They had so many interesting-looking units and so much customisation that I drooled all over the floor. I bought an army, painted it up, played a few games. Within a week I made a startling revelation: they have less viable units than the Sisters, and only a single, barely-viable list, which still royally sucks. I picked them up hoping for an breath of fresh air, but soon went back to the `variety' of Mech Sisters. As much as I scream about the Third Edition armies needing an update, I will wholeheartedly agree that Nids need it more than some of them. I have my fears that it will be a lack-lustre book, but I am positive that we will be able to field a wider variety of units and lists than we currently can. I am fairly confident we will get a better book than we currently have.

I'm torn. On one side, I'd like to see tyranids buffed. On another, I'd like it if not every single army in the game completely outclassed the IG by a staggering margin.

Wow, I just don't know what to say. I use all units (barring biovores and gargoyles) that everyone says sucks to great effect.

I know my opponents don't suck so I guess they don't suck all that bad.

I don't argue that hormogaunts suck, it's why I run stealers instead but to say 90% of the 'dex is garbage is just knee-jerks and false presumption.

Not all of us play tournaments. So right now there isn't a "crutch" army list to use in tournaments. Boo-fething-hoo, I don't really care. To the tournament crowd there will never BE balance in a codex ever. There will always be ONE build that forum goers shape and pound out until it's the ideal optimum.

I play a "balanced", ie mixed nid army right now and I use all the units I described as being "ideal" to how I play. If they don't work for you it doesn't mean the codex is garbage. Against a NON-mech Marine army (yes, they do exist you know outside tournaments) my 'Nids win more than they lose.

I'll reiterate. Hormogaunts are garbage I'll admit but one unit that is clearly garbage does not make for a garbage codex. I explained how I use the other units and how to NOT use them. Carni's are mean with I2 so if you run them in the heavy slot at I1 than pack up your army and sell it to me because you clearly have generalship issues.

I use Calgar for my Marine Hq in games over 2k, yet the ONLY viable list, according to the interwebs is Vulkan melta spam, to which I call bs on but it will fall on deaf ears I'm afraid because only tournaments matter for some reason.