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Thanks Moltar, I'll take any help I can get. I don't even think there are any colors in the range that are even close.

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That does kind of beg the question... is there an neo-nazi undertone at GW?

Here we are with a huge galaxy of humanity over thousands (millions)of worlds... and everybody's white? It's difficult not to draw a similarity between Hitler's "master race" and the space marines... the anglo, fanatical, super human protectors of humanity. There are the Salamanders... but they're BLACK black... not negro. Maybe some mongol influence in the White Scars.... that's about it for mixed races in 40k. No arabs, no asians, no africans, no south americans... I realize the game started with a bunch of blokes in the UK but after 20 years you'd think things besides the height of a space marine would have evolved a bit.

Never really thought about it before but it does bear considering. Is there more out there that I'm unaware of?

My older brother did an African-inspired SM army:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/372407.page

If that's the kind of skin tone you're looking for I'm sure you could shoot him a PM and he'd be kind enough to tell you what he used to achieve it.

Man your brother is a very talented painter! Woof! Very nice skin tone, kind of a chestnut brown.

I may well do that. Let me go through that article first & then we'll see where I stand.

Thanks Moltar!

Anytime, Gits!

Gits!
Progress has been made, I have finally packaged your two minis, ready for shipping tomorrow (hurrah!).

I think they'll be alright, it looks as if I've taken my inspiration more from Fort Hood than Fort Knox. Dear oh dear.

Anywhos, liking the progress so far, and I have to say, I've been turned around by those bikers, in a group they work quite well!

Disjointed.

Cool DE, thank you! Looking forward to them!

Yeah, the bikers were kind of a leap of faith, but I think they're turning out OK.

bah, deer hunting is easy!

Try shooting a running rabbit at 50 yards with grandads .22 rifle!


...gits, i had 4 pints and a Jaegerbomb for you... and going out later.
FREEDOM tastes so good.

Outstanding Matrim! Cheers mate!

Gitsplitta wrote:Thanks Moltar, I'll take any help I can get. I don't even think there are any colors in the range that are even close.

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That does kind of beg the question... is there an neo-nazi undertone at GW?

Here we are with a huge galaxy of humanity over thousands (millions)of worlds... and everybody's white? It's difficult not to draw a similarity between Hitler's "master race" and the space marines... the anglo, fanatical, super human protectors of humanity. There are the Salamanders... but they're BLACK black... not negro. Maybe some mongol influence in the White Scars.... that's about it for mixed races in 40k. No arabs, no asians, no africans, no south americans... I realize the game started with a bunch of blokes in the UK but after 20 years you'd think things besides the height of a space marine would have evolved a bit.

Never really thought about it before but it does bear considering. Is there more out there that I'm unaware of?

There are others, IIRC that there is an IG regiment based off of the arabs.

Yeah there are the Tallarn Desert Raiders and in fairness, after years and years (40,000 or so) mankind would all just be a mix of all the races into one mish mash of a race, but probably wouldn't all look quite so caucasian.

I would say it has a lot to do with what the chapters are based on as well.

UM = roman = white
DA = german = white
BA = Slavic = white
SW = Swedes = white
BT = well, I'll give ya that one, but who plays them anyways

I think some of the other chapters lend themselves to other cultures though. Crimson Fists are all Hispanic names. Iron Fists I have often seen a B;ack, and salamanders used to be, before gw retconed them into being Jet Black. White Scars are (ironically) asian. RG are all pasty and stuff.

Again with IG, but I'd think they would be more mixed (Im going to spell these wrong):
Cadain = Modern armies (US, Europe) = still usually seen as white (high % of officers are vs. enlisted is more diverse)
Catachan = Vietnam Army = see above
Pretorians = Prussians = white
Talarians = Middle Eastern
Vostrins = Russian = white
Elysians = Modern SF = COD (or any other shooter) White main characters
DKoK = Can't see any flesh anyways

Now if they were portraying all the CSM as ethnic groups, I'd give it to ya.

Reasonable, but it doesn't really invalidate my original observation, and as to the Crimson Fists... the origin of Hispanic is Spain = also white. I'm curious if the Talarans are actually middle eastern, or just Caucasians in middle eastern clothing (I honestly don't know).

As to the blending of the races... perfectly logical, but the resulting skin tone would be significantly darker than that typically depicted in 40k artwork or GW painted figures as Moltar suggests.

The reason why I think the majority of the Imperium is "white" is because if you look at plenty of the worlds, while they get sunlight, there are also just as many cities that never see the light of day (i.e. hive planets) The lack of sunlight and vitamin D would lead to paler and paler skin tones.

Also, if you read Blood Gorgons, I believe the natives of the planet in the book are closer to an Arab skin tone and culture than anything else I've seen."

I think, don't quote me on this, it is mainly because the white tone is easier to create with the paint types that GW make. It may just be an easier skin tone to create full stop.
I did achieve a vaguely Japanese tone on one guardsman...

Not a great pic, but you get the idea...
of course, if you're talking about skin tone...then why are all troopers in the 40k universe identical heights??

I want to apologize for any insult that may be taken from this post (i can see it happening). I don't see any other way of putting it...

@Alfndrate- indeed, take us Scots as an example...

No, i see it, and I bet that GW makes many of the skins white because they are catering to their audience, I am positive that there are people of every race, creed, religion, sex, sexual orientation and whatever you can think of that play this game, but I would be willing to bet that the majority of GW's customers are white young/middle aged males. GW wants to appeal to as much of its customer base as possible, and most white, young/middle aged males want to see white, strong and powerful looking soldiers in their army. Not trying to be racist if this post was taken that way, just stating my opinion on why i think GW has the color schemes it does.


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Also, i think they are all the same heights because it gives the army a sense of order and uniformity

Good points all. And IM... don't sweat it, I at least, found nothing to be offended by in your comments... and besides this little distraction was my idea to begin with.

I'm not trying to troll for controversy, just was genuinely curious and the *apparent* lack of diversity amongst the Imperium's finest. Everyone's made great points along the way and handled a pretty gritty topic very professionally.

My hat's off to you all.


One thing that no one's mentioned... at least with the space marines... aren't they all direct genetic decedents of the Emperor (gene-seed wise I mean) through the primarchs? Since he is always depicted as Caucasian, it might hold that once the gene seed is integrated into a new marine the marines natural appearance becomes tempered somewhat by the uber-genes of the Emperor. I'm not totally up on the current meta-fluff so I'm not sure on this.

well, the darkest skin tone in 40k is the salamanders, and that comes in when they are inducted into the salamanders...which only serves to dig GWs hole deeper with the idea that it requires genetic modification to make you dark skinned....

Well... obviously somebody left the salamander's gene seed in the toaster a bit too long.

Gitsplitta wrote:Well... obviously somebody left the salamander's gene seed in the toaster a bit too long.

lol

Gitsplitta wrote:One thing that no one's mentioned... at least with the space marines... aren't they all direct genetic decedents of the Emperor (gene-seed wise I mean) through the primarchs? Since he is always depicted as Caucasian, it might hold that once the gene seed is integrated into a new marine the marines natural appearance becomes tempered somewhat by the uber-genes of the Emperor. I'm not totally up on the current meta-fluff so I'm not sure on this.

Two things about the gene-seeds (in relation to fluff I know)

You could attribute the "same-ness" due to coming from the Emprah, but as a BA player, All blood angels taken off of the Baal planets are not the pretty boys they turn out to be, being in their stasis chamber as the Gene-seed does its work makes them look more like Sanguinius. So something might happen with other chapters.

Imperial Monkey wrote:well, the darkest skin tone in 40k is the salamanders, and that comes in when they are inducted into the salamanders...which only serves to dig GWs hole deeper with the idea that it requires genetic modification to make you dark skinned....

The White Scars ideally should have darker tones more akin to the Mongols.

And if you really want to do it right?

Dark Angels done as Native Americans thank you very much. After all, one of their recruitment worlds was based on that approach.

Really, the skin tone issue I suspect has more to do with paint tones readily produced.

But even the SMs should have some variation - White Scars are mongol based, Dark Angels recruit from varied worlds, Night Lords and Raptors are much paler skinned and I believe the HH books point out the differences in skin tones in the pre-heresy legions - native Cthonians were much darker in hair and tone than Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus from Terra.

My $0.02:

I believe the 'all Caucasian' thing dates back to the beginning, where, really, all the races came out of "classical European fantasy", followed quickly by "classical European fantasy...IN SPACE". Just not a lot of skin tine variation there.

I wonder if Japanese players paint their skin tones differently, or if they follow the 'norm'.

TO THE INTERNET!

The salamanders color is from the large amount of radiation on noctune mutating the gene seed the glowing red eyes too but the natives are also dark skinned from my understanding of the salamander books

Skin colours across the whole of the Imperium wouldn't be completely mixed 100%, just as it is in our world. This, however, is where the idea of what sorts of planets exist in the galaxy comes into question. What are they like? Are they truly so distinctive, like the chilly, craggy surface of Macragge, or are there a lot of out there just like ours, with highly varied climates, thereby making for highly varied skin colours in response to these climates?

Space Marines are one thing, as they are technically descended from the Emperor, who is depicted as being white/ tan, but Imperial Guard really need a lot of variation, and even just in planetary regiments.

My 177.6 pesos (no idea how much that actually comes out to). Kaesar II

In other news, the airbrushing effect on that librarian is looking very spiffy.

I agree with all the comments above, and as for your question Gits, the Tallarn are SUPPOSED to have Arabic skin tones as well as clothing, I think a lot of people just don't bother.

Also, (not intended to be rude etc etc) but different cultures and different races have slightly different features, ex: black people are commonly portrayed as having flaring nostrils and large lips and small ears (No offense, again). I think that then for modeling the mini's it could be a problem. Also, this factors into the height question, I just think that they can't be bothered to make different heights. I completely agree with the idea that it comes (mostly) from the emprah, also that it was a local UK game, but still, as Gits said they should have changed it. Also, this;

"classical European fantasy", followed quickly by "classical European fantasy...IN SPACE".

I think a large part of the Imp Guard is down to the subconscious of the painter. I suppose if you live in a largely Caucasian community and you yourself are Caucasian, you'll subconsciously end up painting a fair chunk of them the same.

Oh and Gits, your mini is in the post!


Bloody double post!

Very interesting stuff guys. Thanks for adding to the discussion... lots to ponder there.

Well, didn't get any painting done last night. I have today off but have a list as long as your arm of things to do. I will take some time to paint but I suspect the overall progress will me minimal (probably try to get the power/force weapons done so at least the war gear is painted & visible). However far I get I'll post a pic tonight.

Cheers!

g'luck

Gitsplitta wrote:I have today off but have a list as long as your arm of things to do.

Gits doesn't wanna measure by his own arm, because it would mean more work for him

No, it's 'cause it would add to his list