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Actually, apparently the German Erratas seem to list the RoH as having no effective change. I'm going to assume that they just didn't bother to edit things properly for the US release.

skyth wrote:

Slaan free dice count towards to power limit (I believe this means they still max out at 6 dice per spell. Does nothing against the 12 dice in the pool unlike rumors)

Hmmm i interpreted it to mean that the slann counts those 6 dice towards the twelve... I have to reread a few rules for clarification.

Kirasu wrote:so basically dwarves are masters of anti-magic again

Yeah with stealing power dice, a standard +2 to dispel plus bonuses from runes, and getting dispel dice without having to channel I don't see how you even get a magic phase without rolling IF against them.

Woot! Gotta love me my dwarves! What magic! You can do magic against me, but it's gonna hurt you

That said the FAQ's didn't change nearly as much stuff as I thought they woudl to integrate it into 8th...

Honestly I wish there was an army that could consistently shut down the entire shooting phase for most of the game just so I could play it against dwarves every day.

I did notice the Storm banner affects "all shooting which doesn't use BS" - so the non-magical part was taken out as far as needing a 4+ to work. Did anyone notice if the HPA or Doomwheel get Thunderstomp?

Mattbranb wrote:I did notice the Storm banner affects "all shooting which doesn't use BS" - so the non-magical part was taken out as far as needing a 4+ to work. Did anyone notice if the HPA or Doomwheel get Thunderstomp?

hell pit does, doomwheel does not. Storm banner is pretty meh now..

nosferatu1001 wrote:However the Moonstone entry looks suspicously like the previous FAQ before it got hurriedly changed - you had the un-assaultable unit, which is quite nasty...

Yeah, that's pretty much crazy! Probably a mistake... I definitely wouldn't use that until I was sure that's really what they meant...

For a lot of stuff they specifically changed things that older faqs allowed. For instance now Vampires can take dread night and a monster mount (and thus get access to a mundane lance) and Destroyer of Eternities no longer is able to use its super ability when getting an extra attack in the Tomb King magic phase. I would have to assume that this change is 100% intentional.

I wouldn't discount the Storm Banner - affects dwarf runes, tomb king catapults, magical wood elf shooting - just hurts Skaven warpstone shooting now, which can be good or bad depending on how your set up.

Steam Tanks - so what I'm reading is that it counts as a chariot now that can be affected by spells, poisoned, etc. etc.? Cool.

Tomb Kings - you guys got a big plus up there on your magic. Still works the same, except you get free power dice in your casting phase to dispel remains in play spells, as well as get your level bonuses to dispel. Too bad the catapults got nerfed alot.

I'm not sure what to make of all these clarifications - think there was some additional stuff they could have covered . . .

tomb king magic got destroyed.....

They dont get to add their caster level to invokes, meaning a level 4 wizard will just laugh and toss one dice at their one dice invokes and almost all dispell them, two dice invokes will be easier to dispell on two dice also.

ok cool I was scared my kroxboxes were gonna have to go. Although.... I have been thinking about separating them and doing a big horde of skinks, and 3 kroxes out on their own... guess I'll have to try em both ways and see what I like

ShivanAngel wrote:tomb king magic got destroyed.....

They dont get to add their caster level to invokes, meaning a level 4 wizard will just laugh and toss one dice at their one dice invokes and almost all dispell them, two dice invokes will be easier to dispell on two dice also.

What?? With no hero cap you can just spam priests. More than likely the opponent isn't going to be having more than 4-5 dispel dice while you have something like 10+ power dice that can't fail to go off and isn't capped at 12 since they don't count as power dice.

Mattbranb wrote:
Steam Tanks - so what I'm reading is that it counts as a chariot now that can be affected by spells, poisoned, etc. etc.? Cool.

Steam Tank is still as resistant to magic as it was before. I don't see anything that allows it immunity to poison any more.

I notice Spider Riders are practically worthless for their "Wall Crawler" rule now, only getting to ignore Forests and Obstacles.

Changing to "Always Strikes First, plus re-rolls" is pretty much what was expected for Bash 'Em Ladz. Doesn't really change much, barring that - if fighting Elves - it means Elves go first but Orcs are the only ones to re-roll now.

Points value thing means I need to tack 10pts back onto my Orc Warboss' Enchanted Shield. Only real change, most other common magic items weren't used.

Collar of Zorga seems to be slightly more effective now.

They FAQ'd away the Big 'Un thing, oddly enough. First you could have one type of Big 'Un for each unit type, now you can only have one again unless your army is lead by Gorbad. It doesn't matter much for me, but for a few players that'll be a noticeable change.

Oddly, Waaagh! doesn't confer "Always Strikes First" and re-roll failed to hits. Two interpretations, though I'm sure my store will stick with the former:
1) It counts as though "Bash 'Em Ladz" was cast, meaning ASF & Re-rolls as normal.
2) It was left out for a reason, and Waaagh! beats even ASF.

Minsc wrote:I notice Spider Riders are practically worthless for their "Wall Crawler" rule now, only getting to ignore Forests and Obstacles.

Changing to "Always Strikes First, plus re-rolls" is pretty much what was expected for Bash 'Em Ladz. Doesn't really change much, barring that - if fighting Elves - it means Elves go first but Orcs are the only ones to re-roll now.

Just a note - ASF vs ASF means they are striking simo.

I didn't notice what happens to war machines now when WAAAGH is cast. You can't leave them so how does that work?

skyth wrote:

Minsc wrote:I notice Spider Riders are practically worthless for their "Wall Crawler" rule now, only getting to ignore Forests and Obstacles.

Changing to "Always Strikes First, plus re-rolls" is pretty much what was expected for Bash 'Em Ladz. Doesn't really change much, barring that - if fighting Elves - it means Elves go first but Orcs are the only ones to re-roll now.

Just a note - ASF vs ASF means they are striking simo.

ASF +ASF=initiative order

ShivanAngel wrote:

skyth wrote:

Minsc wrote:I notice Spider Riders are practically worthless for their "Wall Crawler" rule now, only getting to ignore Forests and Obstacles.

Changing to "Always Strikes First, plus re-rolls" is pretty much what was expected for Bash 'Em Ladz. Doesn't really change much, barring that - if fighting Elves - it means Elves go first but Orcs are the only ones to re-roll now.

Just a note - ASF vs ASF means they are striking simo.

ASF +ASF=initiative order

That changed in the new edition.

skyth wrote:That changed in the new edition.

Which changed, it's now initiative order or now simo? If simultaneous, that's going to be nasty against Elves when you get it off (I say "when" because even a Level 3 Shaman can cast it on two dice with a 97% success rate, 100% with three).

Many of the Orc changes seem relatively minor. I'm upset that they didn't FAQ Fanatics, however. They still cause panic tests on Goblins if they die within 6": Makes you really need to hug a character with them at this point.

New panic rules are stupid in general. "Uh oh the stone thrower just fell apart I'M OUTA HERE THIS IS TOO MUCH!!!"

Heh, I like the idea of a Goblin massively over reacting to a fanatic going splat.
"Eggobbbbbbbb!NOOOOOOOO!"

If gateway goes off with a str 11+ a Vampire with the carstein ring can use it now. Also, if the hellcannon's crew is killed it has to roll on the monster reaction chart. I didn't expect to see those changes.

The difference being I could at least see someone panicking that their war machine was destroyed. A Fanatic? They're specifically designed kamikaze individuals. Hell, they're unreliable kamikaze individuals, who you should be glad keeled over a few yards away instead of plowing through you. Worse is if you Animosity-6 overtop a Fanatic.

"We took eight casualties Boss." "No loss." "The Fanatic's dead too." "RUN AWAY!"

EDIT: Also, I'm mixed on Tomb Kings becoming Wizards. On one hand, it gives a bonus to Dispel. On the other, someone might be able to force Miscasts onto them now (Lizardmen, for example).

Did i miss where a unit doesnt have to be unit strength five or higher to trigger a panic test on adjacent troops?

ShivanAngel wrote:Did i miss where a unit doesnt have to be unit strength five or higher to trigger a panic test on adjacent troops?

Unit Strength is essentially a dead concept.

Ixquic wrote:

Necros wrote:

Jin wrote:It means that second rank always gets to attack anyways, so the rule is moot.

The 2nd rank in any unit just gets 1 attack though... kroxes have 3 attacks each.. so the rule is moot, and kroxes got nerfed?

Aren't they monstrous infantry and thus get 3 attacks in the second rank?

What it does do is means you can't choose to target the Krox in close combat now, and have to kill most all of the Skinks first. (unless i missed something that says otherwise)

Minsc wrote:

skyth wrote:That changed in the new edition.

Which changed, it's now initiative order or now simo?

It was initiative order, now it's Simo.

Ixquic wrote:But when it was T6 most everything was wounding it on 6s anyway.

Not true at all actually. The major 'steam tank answers' are all affected by this. Stone throwers and bolt throwers now need 6s when before they needed 4s. And cannons need 4s when they previously needed 2s. Also, one of the more deadly combats for steam tanks was against characters with great weapons that started at either strength 5 or 6. With auto-hitting and wounding on 3s or 2s, followed by a mere 4+ or 5+ armor save, they went down really quick.

Ixquic wrote:This makes it much more difficult for infantry to beat it back once its hit combat especially since its unbreakable.

This is quite true. If the steam tank was not flank charged, its got a 50mm frontage. At best you could have a front rank with two attacks and one supporting rank for a total of 12 attacks auto-hitting. It doesn't care how magical and amazing your weapon is, you are going to end up with 2 wounds. If you aren't high strength, its going to pass those saves. Neither elite greatsowrd weilding units or hordes of strength 3 are good answers to a steam tank, In the case of the elites, you are going to get grinded or impacted to death before you even get to swing, and in the case of hordes you'll be eating a strength 2 no armor save steam gun to the face and a few grinds every turn.

Ixquic wrote:This is a pretty radical change and for no real reason other than re-balancing when it didn't seem like they did that for other armies.

As an empire player who loves the steam tank concept but was previously unhappy with its survivability, I am super glad they made the change. It wasn't really playable before in my opinion, and now it jumps right back into the role it should fill.

But I do have to agree with you. They saw an opportunity to 'address' the power level of a unit in an FAQ, and they went for it. Which was cool. But they didn't do that for every army book, and I understand how that could be kind of a bummer. there were a few other units that got power level adjustments, like the tomb kings altar, for example. But there are a lot more things out there that could use the attention that the steam tank got.

The only real way to counter Steam Tanks is things that wound on set amounts (Poison Wind Globadiers) now, be it mundane (See again Globadiers) or magical (Lore of Metal). Oh, wait, Lore of Metal doesn't hurt it any more as it lacks a strength value.

O&G have only one real "solution" to Steam Tanks now is Mork Wants Ya. That's... about it. And that's only D3 wounds (well, D6 / 2). Armies that lack S10 weapons are going to be stuck with feeding a Steadfast unit to the Tank, forming 5*however deep, and hoping to keep at least ten models long enough that they never break. On average, three player turns yields a best of around one wound stuck on the STank, which is definitely not enough to kill it in a reasonable time.

Oh yeah, there's stuff like "instant wound" items (such as Runefangs and Waaagh! Cleaver), but then you're buying a character practically as expensive as the STank who is only really worthwhile for destroying the thing (not that it's not fun watching a Savage Orc Warboss drop a STank in two player turns anyways).

I'll agree that STanks should be tough, and that the current one was much easier to wound than the old one in Chronicles (the one that had soft and hard hits, almost requiring you to hit it in the flank). However, bumping to T10 - even with 6's always wounding - is going to be pure heck for many armies.