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What are these immortal wraiths everyone keeps mentioning?

Noisy_Marine wrote:What are these immortal wraiths everyone keeps mentioning?

There's a argument going on elsewhere that wraiths don't suffer wounds from crumbling.

(Again: )

Also regarding the t10 stank, I'll re-iterate: The problem isn't necessarily that the stank will kill a zillion enemy models which it may or may not do. The problem is that many armies have
a very, very low odds actually destorying the thing and thus getting points, unless one pours 1000+ pts worth of the right stuff on it. God forbid empire has 2 of them, altough the standard no double rares restriction or somesuch will probably make it way back from 7th where I play.

Whoah, I was told the stank had its T and W swapped, not both made 10, when I posted yesterday.

Still, it was the best thing in the empire book, and it remains so.
Its the 1+ aromur save that I always struggle with.

Alpharius wrote:Huh.

I can see getting rid of them as Allies, but as an entire army of their own?

That's just plain mean.

How many people do you know of that actually field a 100% Dogs of War army?

Those numbers are almost as low as Squat players and Chaos Dwarf players, last I saw.

Also regarding the t10 stank, I'll re-iterate: The problem isn't necessarily that the stank will kill a zillion enemy models which it may or may not do. The problem is that many armies have a very, very low odds actually destorying the thing and thus getting points, unless one pours 1000+ pts worth of the right stuff on it. God forbid empire has 2 of them, altough the standard no double rares restriction or somesuch will probably make it way back from 7th where I play.

I saw all of these problems in a game today. Two steam tanks are nigh unkillable and "regular" army troops and leaders, even ultra-elite ones, are virtually defenseless against it. Was that thing ever play tested for balance? Ridiculous toughness and number of wounds, impact and "grinding" hits, specific and knowable charge distance and it can shoot template weapons in turns it's also in combat. It's the most broken thing I've ever seen in my near 20 years of play WFB.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Whoah, I was told the stank had its T and W swapped, not both made 10, when I posted yesterday.

Still, it was the best thing in the empire book, and it remains so.
Its the 1+ aromur save that I always struggle with.

That's why everyone saying 'Pour tons of Low-S Missile fire in it and it'll go down!" is wrong.

First you have to get a 6 to wound, and then get through a 1+ Armor Save, oh, and then it still still has 9 wounds!

I figured the Stank would be as OP as people are saying, and that's why I'm keeping the Stonecrusher Mace. Combined with the 3+ Attacks and +3 Strength spell from Lore of the Beasts, I'm throwing out 7 S10 hits (8 if I use the Potion of Foolhardiness), allowing no armor because of S10.

4's to wound, I'll get 3.5 wounds, so either 3 or 4. That's STILL not fast enough, which is sad.

Now I dont know the rules to steam tanks but couldn't you just go lore of metal and totally destroy it?

Yeah...you could just "totally destroy it" dude, man, super bro cool.

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And no.

couldn't you just go lore of metal and totally destroy it?

Not every army has access to that magical "lore".

BrassScorpion wrote:

couldn't you just go lore of metal and totally destroy it?

Not every army has access to that magical "lore".

And one of the ones that have it use the steam tank and would just use another steam tank to kill it.

And you can't harm the Steam Tank with lore of metal anyways: Lore of Metal has no strength values any more.

Ok first off whats the with the hostilities guys? I'm fairly new to the fantasy scene I didn't know not everyone had access to lore of metal so could you just knock it off? And secondly the Steam tank does have an armor value does it not? Lore of metal wounds on the value of what the armor is for instance if it was 2+ armor save metal spells would wound it on a 2+ etc..

Nobody really wants to answer your questions when your trying to participate in a conversation you know nothing about.

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It looks as if just spamming Searing Doom on the Stank would do some damage pretty easily. Even one or two casts of the lower level could take a few wounds off, making it pretty much useless.

For starters, I do believe steam tanks are immune to all spells that DONT have a str value. So telling someone they dont know anything then turning around and not knowing what your talking about your self. *high five!*

Unless this rule was taken out in the FAQ, which Im pretty sure this was discussed and it wasnt...

its ok he just doesnt know. Also before giving him a hard time maybe you should look at the rules for the stank.

The stank is immune to magic that does not have a strength value. So it is immune to the lore of metal. The only spells that have a good chance of effecting it are the pendulum spell (it auto fails I tests) and the pumped up amber spear spell. Also the buff spells on your units do work (occums mind razor/transformation of kadon in particular)

*edit- ^^^ beat me to it

A quick look at the STank PDF says "Change the profile, equipment, and special rules to...."

I'm not seeing the old rules about it being immune to most spells. If special rules have been changed, and don't include the old magic immunities, why would they still apply?

Of course, I'm on 3 hours sleep and jetlagged from hell so I may be easily missing it.

It says change it on a specific page (I dont recall what page). However the rules for its magic immunities and other rules, are on a seperate page.

Buttlerthepug wrote:It says change it on a specific page (I dont recall what page). However the rules for its magic immunities and other rules, are on a seperate page.

That's how I read it too.

Buttlerthepug wrote:It says change it on a specific page (I dont recall what page). However the rules for its magic immunities and other rules, are on a seperate page.

Yep, just went back and looked at it. Special rules are in the armylist section, but the magic immunity is a paragraph on it's own back in the bestiary.

The reason we follow the "need a specific strength" is the same reason we still say a Steam Tank generates Steam Points: The FAQ says nothing about it. It touches in a few places on what you can do with the steam points, but saying "It's not in the FAQ it doesn't apply any more" is silly.

Not that I agree that the Steam Tank is immune to metal. It shouldn't be, but as the rules are right now it is. Heck, it's immune to most of the magic now that would have a reasonable chance to destroy it. Only unit buffs can really help, mainly by either increasing a unit's strength or attacks characteristics.

The upgunned amber spear is an excellent choice to affect it.

I've gotten a game with the T10 stank. I love it, and its instantly going in to my tourney list, and it will never be played against people I don't know unless they specifically ask me to "bring the heat".

I think it's going to be one of those "throw everything you have at it or ignore it" units. As a ratman, I'm confident I have enough options to have a go at it, but equally I could quite happily feed it (Ld 10, Stubborn) slaves until the battle is over.

Wow, reading this thread you'd almost thing GW had a pricey new Steam Tank model to sell.

Flashman wrote:I think it's going to be one of those "throw everything you have at it or ignore it" units. As a ratman, I'm confident I have enough options to have a go at it, but equally I could quite happily feed it (Ld 10, Stubborn) slaves until the battle is over.

Yep. It won't really be killable by skaven, without a really lucky warp lightning cannon shot, but if the skaven play a smart game, it'll be tarpitted pretty effortlessly by a block of clanrats or slaves next to the general. The steam gun could eventually free it from its furry prison, but it will most certainly be marginalized by goblins (that can pass stubborn) and skaven (with some ranks and a nearby general).

Beastmen, high elves, wood elves can take beast lore and get the cannon spell. Dwarves and empire laugh at it, bretonnia can take the amber spear and can put some unsaveable wounds on it with some luck from a trebuchet shot, warriors can try and dogpile it with marauders. Or barring that, charge it with some knights... They can potentially get some modified armor saves on it, and shrink its effectiveness down before they get ground to mush.

I'm certain that just about everyone can work around it or put a few wounds on it to shut down its effectiveness. Its just that you are forced to make sure you take those tools, because an untouched steam tank set loose on a non-horde is really, really bad news.

Shep wrote:

Flashman wrote:I think it's going to be one of those "throw everything you have at it or ignore it" units. As a ratman, I'm confident I have enough options to have a go at it, but equally I could quite happily feed it (Ld 10, Stubborn) slaves until the battle is over.

Yep. It won't really be killable by skaven...

Hmm, the Council of Thirteen take issue with this statement and recommend closer inspection of our infernal devices.

Doomwheel has the potential to send out 3 S10 Warp Lightning shots that each cause D6 wounds.

Jezzails may only wound on a 6, but they have -4 save modifier, meaning that 2/3 of wounds will cause damage.

The Bell causes D3 wounds on anything with T7 or higher on a result of 11-12 (fairly average roll for 3 dice), although irritatingly, it doesn't say these wounds can't be saved.

Infernal Bomb could conceivably be placed in a Steam Tanks path, causing S10 D3 wounds if it felt obliged to go over it. Brass Orb might well do something too, but not sure what happens as Steam Tank doesn't have an Initiative value

The Fell Blade might knock off a few chunks before the wielder perished

Ooh, here's a good one - Poison Wind Globes wound ANY TARGET on a 4+ with NO ARMOUR SAVES ALLOWED

In an similar vein, plague attacks (Plague Claw Catapult, Plague Magic) may only have S2, but will now wound on 6+ with NO ARMOUR SAVES ALLOWED

To be honest, there's so much in the Skaven inventory that could hurt a Steam Tank, I would leave it in the garage if I were an Empire player facing the warpstone munchers.

Chaoslord wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:What are these immortal wraiths everyone keeps mentioning?

There's a argument going on elsewhere that wraiths don't suffer wounds from crumbling.

(Again: )

They don't suffer wounds only if you're playing very RAW. Strictly as written, they're invulnerable from Crumbling. But I dont think anyone is going to play it that way.


As far as steam tanks, they're something you deal with. Much like any other HPOU (high powered over-used unit) out there.

Haha, flash... I totally forgot about the globadiers!

But don't talk about the potential strength 10 cannon hit. You are just as likely to misfire

I don't list tailor, so the poison wind mortar/globadier/grey seer with dreaded thirteenth/HPA/stormbanner army can just happily table me.

Not a lot of armies that this army won't table anyway, welcome to the demon slot, skaven.

Its not just about S10.. So many things in the skaven book cause multiple wounds with no armor saves. All you gotta do is roll 6s on those to cripple the steam tank. Its hard to kill, but after it takes 3 wounds its no longer a huge threat

Which is why the whining is so annoying - yes, you may not get many points off it, but take even 2 wounds off it and it then risks further damage in trying to do anything. You dont need to kill it to make it junk in terms of contributing 300 points to the enemy army.

Dreaded 13th has no S value and the stank isnt infantry, so that makes 2 reasons why it wont work against the stank...

Kirasu wrote:Its not just about S10.. So many things in the skaven book cause multiple wounds with no armor saves. All you gotta do is roll 6s on those to cripple the steam tank. Its hard to kill, but after it takes 3 wounds its no longer a huge threat

Yep. Let's be real here. The Steam Tank is not the most killy 'monster' in the game. Some stuff already caused tons more casualties and only gained some because of the thunderstomp rules. The Steam Tank only 'attacks' during the Empire turn and has some specific vulnerabilities due to being hit automatically. Additionally, it's not exaggerating to say that the Steam Tank becomes crippled already after the first two or three wounds. It turns from monster to tarpit after its been wounded. The boost to the toughness was necessary and makes it unique in the game.