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Mannahnin wrote:

Norade wrote:The Ork list isn't really theory hammer as I've seen it used to great effect before. If the C'Tan is moved to fight Kans then the Dreads try to Wreck the Liths, if that fails then Klaws come out and aim for a kill or some of the Kans get pulled off to do it.

If I can't see the C'Tan to shoot it then my Rokkits get to start whittling down Destroyers as even one or two dead or forcing them into larger squads works.

I'm not trying to say it's an easy win, but it's one of many lists that have all of the tools to defeat this one trick Necron list and still compete versus other lists.

I'm not saying I entirely disagree, but I'll take exception to the "many" part. Also, try running the math on how many Rokkits you need to be shooting at Destroyers with cover saves to do anything. They're almost worthless.

That Ork list you posted is certainly an all-comers list which is capable of taking on min-maxed 'crons, though it'd have to be decided on the table. The combination of AV14 and Skimmer Dodge makes the Monliths more resistant to deffrollas than any other vehicle. The rollas, and nob squads with 4 powerklaws on top of the Dreads and squads of Kans makes for a LOT more S9 and S10 attacks coming out of this list than the vast majority of tournament lists.

Definitely a leave it all on the table type of game, which is better than most Necron lists can do.

As I said earlier in the thread, this kind of build beat me for a league title not long ago, and held its own against me at the 2010 Ard Boyz final too. I beat him (in part because he got cocky with the Deceiver against Abaddon), but I couldn't get full points/the phase out because he pulled the exact same trick of reserving the warriors and bringing them on in a corner behind a wall of monoliths.

This kind of list would have been seen as broken and unfair in 3rd or 4th edition; now it's the main way Necrons can compete at all, but it's pretty darn good.

Yeah, makes you wonder how the Necrons will be changed in 5e when they get a new Codex. They have a lot of good right now and seem a few tweaks away from having at least one top tier build.

Norade wrote:Definitely a leave it all on the table type of game, which is better than most Necron lists can do.

It would be brutal for the Necrons, no question about it. Honestly, for me at least, I'd use the term "Nightmare Scenario".

If any Necron build could do it though, I think its this one.

Norade wrote:Yeah, makes you wonder how the Necrons will be changed in 5e when they get a new Codex. They have a lot of good right now and seem a few tweaks away from having at least one top tier build.

I completely agree. I think its become a bit of a tautology that Necrons are terrible, and since I had a bit of spare time in between quarters I thought I'd do my small part to try and challenge that.

Good tactica but I was wondering what would you do at 1.5k points?

Probably Deceiver, 2 monoliths, 2x10 warriors, 2x3 Destroyers, and five Scarabs. Alternately, you could take a Rez Orb/Veil lord and add more Destroyers or a squad of Immortals.

For 1500 Points I would do something more like this:

Deceiver
Lord with Veil of Darkness and Resurrection Orb

10 Warriors
10 Warriors

1 Monolith

4 Destroyers
4 Destroyers

_________________

Obviously you can't wall yourself off as well here so you'll want to use the Deceiver's Grand Illusion to make sure that you rearrange your deployment to best counteract your opponent's, whether its setting your destroyers up to get unobstructed shots to try and immobilize problem vehicles like Land Raiders and Battlewagons. The basic strategy would be the same though; keep an eye on the mission objectives and stay mobile.

Target priority becomes even more of an issue here. Figure out what the greatest threat on the other side of the table is and focus Destroyer and Particle Whip fire on it until it either goes away or slows down.

What is your opinion on a 'Tomb Guard' army. I was thinking of a build w/ Destroyer Lord, VoD+Res Orb Lord, Flayed Ones, Minimal Warriors, Scarabs, 2x Tomb Stalkers, 3x Tomb Spyders.

Going more with fluff but what I think is a decent build. Tomb Stalkers are large and can protect Warriors, the Lord is to move like you said. Scarabs and Destroyer Lord are fast and a pain, Flayed Ones a DSing distraction and Tomb Spyders help the 6" WBB problem.

Tomb Stalkers are ridiculously awesome. I pray nightly that they're in the new Codex.

If your local scene doesn't have a problem with using FW rules(experimental rules, I should add) I'd say go for it! I think you'd get more mileage out of Wraiths than Flayed ones though.

The only thing I'd say is that Tomb Spyders really aren't all that they are cracked up to be. As far as Necron Heavy Support goes the Monolith is the only thing in there worth taking in my opinion.

I think paying 165pts for 3 Monstrous creatures (albeit 2 wounds) with helpful special rules is worth it. I will playtest.

Thanks for the help!!

I know it looks that way, but I always seemed to have mine getting stomped out by Space Marines with Powerfists. YMMV.

Let me know how it goes, would you?

I've seen Tomb Spiders do really nasty things as long as they keep the number of scarab swarms in the unit equal or less than the number of spiders. Majority toughness and wound abuse FTW! Even a single spider spawning a single base can be nasty; hard to shoot down, and it can spawn as a way of gaining assault distance in a given direction.

40kEnthusiast had at least one batrep with close-combat-crons using a ton of them, a C'Tan, and a pile of scarabs.

Gracias thats on along the lines of what I was thinking.

Mannahnin: I've heard people say that they like the army and read some battle reports about it but I still think that trying to go toe-to-toe with an actual Assault Army is going to be a losing proposition in most cases.

That said, I chose to put the word "humble" in the thread title for a reason. I'm just putting into writing what works for me using this army based on several years of playing them. People can take all of my advice, some of it, or do the exact opposite and I wish them all the best.

This is really strong advice and from my experience this is currently the "strongest" take all comers build for necrons.

Hopefully in next edition we will see troops become more used somehow. For necrons, and an extent nids, I was always sad to see people take 2 min sized troop squads, but its kinda what you must do to be competitive.

I have always had decent mileage from tomb spyders with dual claws. They aren't an assault unit by any means but they do good tieing up units when it comes down to having to teleport out more than 2 units a turn from monolith portals, or when you would rather particle whip then teleport. Usually you have a scarab swarm or two by the time you need to prememptively charge something, The idea is to charge a unit thats going to charge you next round and create a situation where other assault units near it have to either spend extra time going around the assault or pile in.

I agree that this is probably the strongest competition list available to Necrons at the moment. Definitely something I wouldn't want to play my friends with (especially if I'm relying on them for a ride home!) Monoliths are unbelievably formidable (and, not to mention, probably one of the coolest single models in 40k).

To be honest, I always cringe when I see casual gamers playing small games loaded down with Monoliths and C'Tan. It's no fun for a beginner Ultramarines player to watch his army getting vaporized by S10 pie plates being launched from two or three stationary Monoliths while shooting ineffectively back. It's tough to get excited about building and painting an army if it's not fun to play the game.

I'm much more of a "Fun" gamer. I've always enjoyed using Monolith-less Necron lists. Even in 5th edition, the basic Necron warrior is a solid fighter (though the ability to destroy almost any vehicle in the game in previous editions made them unparalleled). Wraiths and Destroyers are two very strong and versatile Fast Attack units. Heavy Destroyers are nothing to shake a stick at. That said, the tactical advantage of a Monolith really comes into its own at around 1750-2000 points when the power of the big gun becomes necessary against most other armies.

Anyways, ramble over. Thank you very much for posting your tactica article. As others have noted, it is nice to see some loving for an army that only a few players truly love!

I was wondering if there was a possibility for some substitutions in the list and if there were any recommendations for using them (this is for my son's list so getting new figures takes a bit).

We have...

Nightbringer
Lord w/ orb
2 monoliths
20 warriors
4 destroyers

this is where we depart from the list... we also have...

20 more warriors (I know, useless)
3 wraiths
2 tomb spiders & some scarabs
6 pariahs

Can anyone recommend an intelligent way to sub in some of the lower list to make up for what we don't have in the upper list? Perhaps with ways to use them? Say build to the 1850 or 2000 pt levels (or pick one... whatever works for the purposes of illustration).

Thanks!

I have sold my necrons, however when I was playing them I went all shooty. This is 4th ed.

Lord w/orb/veil

2x10 warriors

3x10 immortals

3x4 destroyers

Don't know how well they would do in 5th. I imagine quite poorly.

I don't see how this list can survive the mass shooting that exists now in 5th, but I will give it a more thorough go through tonight.


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G. Whitenbeard wrote:I agree that this is probably the strongest competition list available to Necrons at the moment. Definitely something I wouldn't want to play my friends with (especially if I'm relying on them for a ride home!) Monoliths are unbelievably formidable (and, not to mention, probably one of the coolest single models in 40k).

To be honest, I always cringe when I see casual gamers playing small games loaded down with Monoliths and C'Tan. It's no fun for a beginner Ultramarines player to watch his army getting vaporized by S10 pie plates being launched from two or three stationary Monoliths while shooting ineffectively back. It's tough to get excited about building and painting an army if it's not fun to play the game.

I'm much more of a "Fun" gamer. I've always enjoyed using Monolith-less Necron lists. Even in 5th edition, the basic Necron warrior is a solid fighter (though the ability to destroy almost any vehicle in the game in previous editions made them unparalleled). Wraiths and Destroyers are two very strong and versatile Fast Attack units. Heavy Destroyers are nothing to shake a stick at. That said, the tactical advantage of a Monolith really comes into its own at around 1750-2000 points when the power of the big gun becomes necessary against most other armies.

Anyways, ramble over. Thank you very much for posting your tactica article. As others have noted, it is nice to see some loving for an army that only a few players truly love!

Those are str9 pie plates.

Also, I would think Logan lists with lc lf's would make short work of monos. imho.

Gitsplitta wrote:I was wondering if there was a possibility for some substitutions in the list and if there were any recommendations for using them (this is for my son's list so getting new figures takes a bit).

We have...

Nightbringer
Lord w/ orb
2 monoliths
20 warriors
4 destroyers

this is where we depart from the list... we also have...

20 more warriors (I know, useless)
3 wraiths
2 tomb spiders & some scarabs
6 pariahs

Can anyone recommend an intelligent way to sub in some of the lower list to make up for what we don't have in the upper list? Perhaps with ways to use them? Say build to the 1850 or 2000 pt levels (or pick one... whatever works for the purposes of illustration).

Thanks!

Personally, for a 2000 pt list, I'd use the following of your models:

1 Nightbringer
1 Lord, veil, orb
2 monolith
11 warriors
10 warriors
4 Destroyers
3 wraiths
6 pariahs
4 scarab swarms

Could use your swarms as a meat shield (so to speak) to get the pariahs into CC, where they'll do well with their warscythes.

It's all theory till you battle with it though

Excellent, thanks JudgeXa... we'll give that a try!

When deploying my Necrons, I will generally keep my Warriors Squads in Reserve.

Hey any tips against the new DA/BT lists circulating? What are good counters to terminators?

Also, how do I handle Mephiston? I recently played against him and got tabled hard.

C'tan - no use
Didn't bring H.destroyers and even massed fire barely dent him as his 2+ stops almost everything and his T6 laughs at all but destroyer fire.

Pariahs hiding behind a Monolith are wonderfully annoying to powerful, beatstick psykers. When he gets within 12 of them he has to test at a 7 or run away, and then if you keep your stuff inside of that bubble he'll only be making half of his psychic tests.

It'll take a little practice to get it right, but its nice once you figure it out.

Monster Rain wrote:Pariahs hiding behind a Monolith are wonderfully annoying to powerful, beatstick psykers. When he gets within 12 of them he has to test at a 7 or run away, and then if you keep your stuff inside of that bubble he'll only be making half of his psychic tests.

It'll take a little practice to get it right, but its nice once you figure it out.

monolith its a "fly vehicle" so anything can be blank out by them. so your pariah can normally be destroyed by enemy's fire...

you can keep your warriors in reserve -if- they are more than the two basic unit
and remember they must use the monolith's portal to "materialize"...

from the necrons codex.

i didn't read the last FAQ?

Gitsplitta wrote:I was wondering if there was a possibility for some substitutions in the list and if there were any recommendations for using them (this is for my son's list so getting new figures takes a bit).

We have...

Nightbringer
Lord w/ orb
2 monoliths
20 warriors
4 destroyers

this is where we depart from the list... we also have...

20 more warriors (I know, useless)
3 wraiths
2 tomb spiders & some scarabs
6 pariahs

Can anyone recommend an intelligent way to sub in some of the lower list to make up for what we don't have in the upper list? Perhaps with ways to use them? Say build to the 1850 or 2000 pt levels (or pick one... whatever works for the purposes of illustration).

Thanks!

Ugh. You don't have enough of anything to really be worth it. Wraiths & Scarabs are only good in mass numbers, a full unit of 10 for Scarabs or (I think) two full units of 3 (6 total) for Wraiths. They have this terrible tendency to just not kill anything otherwise. But just about anything is better than more Warriors, so I'd suggest fielding it all.

Monster Rain wrote:Pariahs hiding behind a Monolith are wonderfully annoying to powerful, beatstick psykers. When he gets within 12 of them he has to test at a 7 or run away, and then if you keep your stuff inside of that bubble he'll only be making half of his psychic tests.

It'll take a little practice to get it right, but its nice once you figure it out.

I thought he was fearless? Him testing on a 7 won't stop him from munching most Necron units, but it will make him vulnerable to the C'tan and maybe a Pariah charge. This is also your only worthwhile response unless your opponent somehow forgets to use the S10 power.

As for the Monolith and LOS, I believe the flying base stick that ships with the model is maybe an inch tall. More than low enough to block anything.

Got beat up today by an eldar mech list - apologies for not knowing the names well...part of the prob was "dawn of War" and leaving all my lists sbd FAQ at home! Anyway, he had 6 skimmers, Avatar, HQ character with 3+ ward save rerolls, two units of 5 guys with meltas (firewarriors?), 5 howling banshees, couple of troops in the skimmers.

I took a monolith (first time!!!), 32 warriors in 3 units, 10 flayed ones, 3 wraiths, 3 Destroyers, ten scarabs, a spyder, 1 lord orb and veil, 1 lord melée kit of GoF, LF, PSh, NShr, both warscythe. The lords were 400, the warriors 575, the Elite and FA 575, -/+.

Turn 2 he unloaded melta units and destroyed the lith. They mustve dropped 20 dice on the sad thing, abd he had tank hunters. Exploded and gone. There were only three objectives and he placed two. The most central one I contested and I got a sad, pathetic, barely a draw. The destroyers did Jack s--t to his skimmers, and they wasted the destroyers and shot apart most of my army. My warriors put about 60 shots into his hq to kill the guy with the 3+ ward reroll save, my lord with warscythe killed the avatar, but the crons looked pathetic. Sure I could buy another monolith and 4 immortals (for ten) but at 1850 I don't see the point of spending $120.

This list has become a joke. If there really were ctan and crons, my kid wouldn't be scared! The eldar easily outclassed them in every phase and their list had superior builds in every aspect of the game. Personally, I'm inclined to build my IG mech army and SM/CSM army and wait for the new Nevron codex.

Aman, it just sounds like you played really poorly. Taking variety for variety's sake shows you put little thought into your list, which makes me expect you put less thought into your play. There are some pretty obvious problems with the list: a lone Spyder isn't helping anyone, and Necron Lords are never very good at melee. Flayed Ones and Wraiths are also not good enough in close combat; you need a specific plan or tactic to make them effective, like Dash's 44" assault range Wraiths. You also have too few Destroyers for them to be effective.

As this was your first time taking a Monolith, I guarantee you made mistakes with it. It is the catalyst for most of the Necron's tactics, and the aforementioned lack of planning is the bane of such units. I also don't think you understand the Living Metal rule. When his Fire Dragons shot your Monolith, they could only roll a single dice for penetration per shot. Granted, with Tank Hunters, statistically, he's got a good shot of killing it anyway.

Another aspect of this manifold failure is your startling lack of anti-tank. You have no units that kill transports at range. Your "melee" Lord is effective against stationary tanks, and the Monolith is great when it finally gets within 24", but against Mech Eldar neither of those is going to happen. So he gets to do whatever he wants and you have no way to stop him.

Now obviously it is difficult to use Necrons; otherwise we wouldn't have this thread. However it is not the Necrons who were outclassed in every phase.

Quite a lot of suppositions, none worthy of comment.

As for the list, it is what I have painted and ready, which alone justifies the list.

The Necron lord with warscythe killed his Avatar single-handed, then went on to contest the central objective in two vicious rounds of melée, to earn the tie. I put about 60 shots into his commander, who survived all shooting and was killed by the Flayed Ones in melée.

The monolith was destroyed on t2, immediately after entering the board and taking one shot. Since he had skimmer mounted melta squads poised to reach any entry point on my side, there was nothing to be done. I don't know enough to challenge his list or rules, but two 5-man squads got three glancing and two penetrating hits in one round of shooting and the mono exploded. Sure I shot down 6/10 of them but who cares?

The skimmers had holofields that force you to roll twice for a glancing snd take the lowest. I got about 6-8 hits on skimmers and consistently lost destroyed results bc of that cheap upgrade. And glancing is already lame due to the changes in 5th.

The Necrons have three weapons that can shoot armor -Vparticle whip, hvy destroyers and the nightbringer. Since first was destroyed after one shot and I didn't have two and three, end of story. I didn't know the guys list so I'd hardly proxy destryers as heavies, when glancing is often good enough and 9 v 3 shots overall more useful

Aside from making a list just to fight this army, there's very little dual-purpose Cron gear. But I plan for a rematch with a better mission, proxies heavies and Nightbringer. I'd also screen the monolith with warriorsoutin front by 12" to punish the skimmers with 32-64 gauss shots. He can't pass all his holo cover saves...

Note however that this is the opposite of this tacticas advice.

I'm pretty sure that Fire Dragons shouldn't be getting penetrating hits on Monoliths under any circumstances.

What about "Tank Hunter"?


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My take in it is that originally GW intended for Necrons to be a pretty straightforward list. Tons of little choices (ie ImpGd) were unnecessary bc their basic weapons did enough damage to guys and gear alike. Now the game has moved on so much that they struggle to get by.

Overall, I think it's inexcusable that in ten years they can't do a single update of a popular army, even if it's just a clearly written FAQ with some updated rules. Meanwhile every SM faction under the sun is getting overhauled, abd there've been at least two IG codeces.