Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sorry Just Dave, I will have to complain. The Autarchs never becomes Exarchs - Exarch are trapped on their particular path and can never go away. I don't think Autarchs with Exarch weaponry is a good idea. More likely, some different wargear made for commanders.

I have to say the codex is pretty awesome, from what I have seen. I've actually been using your codex to make a few of my homebrew characters, but thats a different thing entirely.

I'd LOVE to offer criticism... But... I honestly know very little about balancing, and all that jazz to comment :I I can say, though, I look forward to seeing more. Especially if you plan to do a Tyranid one in the future

sorry if im missing something but there is no points cost for Chyper

redkommando wrote:sorry if im missing something but there is no points cost for Chyper

Look at the "chosen" page.

woodbok wrote:

redkommando wrote:Sorry if I'm missing something, but there is no points cost for Cypher.

Look at the "chosen" page.

woodbok made a nicer reply than what I would have replied : "maybe if you had paid more attention to spelling & punctuation, as per the Dakka rules, you would have noticed it's "Cypher", not "Chyper", which could have explained why you couldn't find the related points cost."

Saintspirit wrote:Sorry Just Dave, I will have to complain. The Autarchs never becomes Exarchs - Exarch are trapped on their particular path and can never go away. I don't think Autarchs with Exarch weaponry is a good idea. More likely, some different wargear made for commanders.

IIRC, the current official codex has exarch weaponry for Autarchs too. Plus Autarchs are masters of every path, so it only stands to reason that they could use all the equipment.

Plus this is good to hear, as I've always liked Eldar, but without the crap codex.

Cerebrium wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:Sorry Just Dave, I will have to complain. The Autarchs never becomes Exarchs - Exarch are trapped on their particular path and can never go away. I don't think Autarchs with Exarch weaponry is a good idea. More likely, some different wargear made for commanders.

IIRC, the current official codex has exarch weaponry for Autarchs too. Plus Autarchs are masters of every path, so it only stands to reason that they could use all the equipment.

Plus this is good to hear, as I've always liked Eldar, but without the crap codex.

Not true. They can f.ex. use a Reaper launcher (common DR weapon) but not tempest launcher - it's the same with the other exarch weaponry. Only aspect warrior weaponry.
It is true though that they have mastered a lot of warrior paths without becoming trapped, but Exarch weaponry is still reservated for exarchs.

Still, is this the right topic to discuss this on? I recall Just Dave have a similar about the eldar codex he's writing.

Oops, my bad. i see now. thank you for the clarification. And sorry about the bluntness of the previous question, i was running late for work.

Amanax wrote:I was the one inquiring about the Eldar codex

Thank you for the sneak peak!

So, judging from what I have seen there, it looks like you will be including a most likely updated version of the craftworld rules?

You really expect me to say what I have planned?
Let me put it like this; the design is fairly similar to my CSM dex in lots of ways I think...
I'll try to put up another sneak-peak sometime in the near future, just done the Phoenix Lords though.

megabambam wrote:Oh Dave you beautifull man! I love the codex :3 and will be playtesting a list (which i'm about to make) in a couple of weeks.. I'll be updating you on how it'll end :3

Ha! Thanks man, much appreciated. Particularly the beautiful part.
I'd love to hear how any playtesting goes, thanks a lot!

Artanis wrote:Great work Dave, I enjoyed reading that.

Especially liked the customizability you've added to our walkers and that Kharn is EW. Very polished unlike that abomination we call the current codex..

Thanks man, appreciate the feedback.

Saintspirit wrote:Sorry Just Dave, I will have to complain. The Autarchs never becomes Exarchs - Exarch are trapped on their particular path and can never go away. I don't think Autarchs with Exarch weaponry is a good idea. More likely, some different wargear made for commanders.

Thanks for the honesty Saint, I admit, it was partially an oversight, but as someone pointed out, Autarchs have trained on at least one warrior path and have access to aspect warrior wargear. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to have access to some of the best in the Eldar armoury, even if some of it is exarch wargear. They are not necessarily exarchs themselves just because they have their wargear (it won't have the same affect as donning their armour for example), whilst in game-terms, Autarchs do need some more and better wargear.
I've since removed some of the more unique and specialist options that truly are one aspects, such as scorpions claws, but others have remained, like executioners. It doesn't fit the fluff perfectly, I fully admit, but it doesn't exactly contradict it IMHO.

Takeshishin wrote:I have to say the codex is pretty awesome, from what I have seen. I've actually been using your codex to make a few of my homebrew characters, but thats a different thing entirely.

I'd LOVE to offer criticism... But... I honestly know very little about balancing, and all that jazz to comment :I I can say, though, I look forward to seeing more. Especially if you plan to do a Tyranid one in the future

That's fine; don't worry, all feedback - particularly positive - is appreciated. Don't worry about not providing criticism; kind words are always nice, particularly with the amount of work put into it! Cheers.
Don't put money on me doing a 3rd though! Jesus man, one was enough work!

Thanks for the honesty Saint, I admit, it was partially an oversight, but as someone pointed out, Autarchs have trained on at least one warrior path and have access to aspect warrior wargear. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to have access to some of the best in the Eldar armoury, even if some of it is exarch wargear. They are not necessarily exarchs themselves just because they have their wargear (it won't have the same affect as donning their armour for example), whilst in game-terms, Autarchs do need some more and better wargear.
I've since removed some of the more unique and specialist options that truly are one aspects, such as scorpions claws, but others have remained, like executioners. It doesn't fit the fluff perfectly, I fully admit, but it doesn't exactly contradict it IMHO.

Yeah that makes sense I guess, after all the PL of reapers has an exec. too...

I think though that it would be nice for them to have some wargear fro commanders (as I stated before), one thing I came up with was a shuriken pistol firing power shurikens (Ap2)... Hm?

Long long ago in the far off years of 2009, I smoked up an oddball design for a standard Eldar rifle, which went something like this:

24/12" S2 AP3 Assault 2/3

I did some mathhammer and it came out fairly balanced, the increased shot count compensated for the lowered strength and the AP3 made it much more useful against high-armor targets (Space Marines and Incubi), and emphasized the flavor of shooting light, small but razor sharp blades. It got dismissed as one of my many crackpot ideas, but I thought I'd give it a shot shoving it in here.

finished the Land Raider Marauder: Here are the final pics:

awesome looking landraider

Nice indeed !

How about the playtesting?

Next Thursday. Gonna have it filled with Terminators.

Right, there is a 'competition' of sorts, no real prize of note, don't hold your breath.

Could someone please pick me a number between (and including) 3 and 34.
The first person to post their selected number, alongside a WAAC army list using my CSM Fandex, will be the 'winner'.
I.e. Their number will be chosen. The reasoning behind this will be revealed in the near future...

Thanks, [Just] Dave.


-----


Saintspirit:
Glad that sounds OK to you, and yes, I've been creating some exarch-specific wargear too (e.g. Disruption/Vibro Blade). I'm not sure about an AP2 Shuriken pistol though, as you could just use the Str8 AP1 fusion pistol instead, for example. I'm working on it, but there's a lot of existing and competing wargear...

Crazypskyo:
I can believe that is balanced against some targets, but it would ultimately be worse against most standard infantry who don't have a 3+ save, whilst I'm not sure where (i.e. which unit) it could be applied to...

Praxiss:
Corrrr! That Landraider looks LOVELY man, really nice job there! Well done man, really originally done (particularly the turret). I look forward to hearing how it does in action, hopefully it won't draw your opponents attention too much or they'll be loathe to destroy such a nice model! Cracking job man.

9

(No, I didn't read the whole post )

I love this. Seriously, you made Full Nurgle more than viable.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:I love this. Seriously, you made Full Nurgle more than viable.

Thanks man, it's appreciated! And yeah, someone even used a foot-slot, full-Nurgle list that did pretty well.

Yggdrasil wrote:9

(No, I didn't read the whole post )

Don't worry, it would've been a poor 'choice' anyways IMHO.
You are welcome to 'try again', providing you read the whole post next time!

After reading through some Night Lords fluff, I just had a little idea that sprung to mind. Including the rules for their Icon, why not give them Night Vision as well? They are stated to have excellent eyesight in absolute darkness in the fluff, far above that of the normal Space Marine implants.

Just a little extra to give people a little more incentive while not drastically changing much of anything.

Ok, here's my take...

1500 Nurgle-oriented list.

HQ : Chaos Sorcerer.......................180pts
(Daemonic Toughness, Mark of Nurgle, Personal Icon, Death Guardian, Nurgle Rot / Warptime)

Elite : Terminators .........................120pts
(1x Chainfist, 3x Combi-meltas)

Troops : Plague Marines...................261pts
(+2 Marines; Plague Champion, Power Fist, Melta Bomb, Personal Icon; 2x Meltaguns; Rhino, Combi-Melta)

Troops : Plague Marines...................251pts
(+2 Marines; Plague Champion, Power Fist, Melta Bomb, Personal Icon; 2x Meltaguns; Rhino)

Troops : Heretics.............................70pts
(Mark of Nurgle)

Troops : Lesser Daemons.................55pts
(Mark of Nurgle)

Fast Attack : Chaos Bikers................113pts
(Champion, Combi-melta, Melta Bomb, Personal Icon; Meltagun)

Heavy : Chaos Predator....................60pts
(Hellfire Cannon)

Heavy : Defiler.................................150pts
(Mark of Nurgle, Havoc Launcher replacing the Reaper Autocannon)

Heavy : Obliterators.........................240pts
(+2 Obliterators)

TOTAL : 1500pts.

Magic number = Nurgle-7 !

[edit : I don't really know if this is a real WAAC list, as I don't play in tournaments, and my lists usually go on the fluffy or fun side...]

Hello, I haven't yet had a chance to sit and kick out a WAAC list with your codex yet, so I'll post one I've played.

HQ: Chaos Lord, Icon of Word Bearers, Dark Apostle, Blessing of Chaos, Power Weapon, Personal Icon - 180

Troop: 8x Khorne Berzerkers, Skull Champion with power fist and personal icon - 214

Heavy Support: Chaos Land Raider with dozer blade - 245

2x Troops: 10x Chaos Space Marines, meltagun, flamer, marks of chaos undivided. Aspiring Champion with power fist, personal icon - 200 (so 400 when x2)

2x Dedicated Transports: Chaos Rhino - 35 (so 70 when 2x)

3x Troops: 8x Lesser daemons - 88 (264 when 3x)

Elite: Chaos Dreadnaught with mark of chaos undivided and twin-linked autocannon - 130

Total points: 1498

Basically its a 'rush right at your enemies' list, with 3 units of lesser daemons to come in off any of the 4 icons where needed to tip the scales in assaults. The Dark Apostle rule on the word bearer chaos lord is the key, as it allows you to +1/-1 on your reserve rolls, so you can get the daemons right when you need them. The blessing of chaos on the lord (eternal warrior) is to keep him alive long enough to make use of it, even though hes pretty safe in the land raider with the zerkers. Another benefit to the list is running 6 troop choices for objective games.

Oh and for a number: 8

Sorry to be 'that' guy, but just to see if it would still work:

1848/1850

HQ 230
Chaos Sorcerer 115
Icon of the Black Legion, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, Warp Rift

Chaos Sorcerer 115
Icon of the Black Legion, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, Warp Rift

ELITE 175
Chaos Dreadnought Magnate 175
Plasma Cannon, Missile Launcher

TROOPS 723
7x Plague Marines 241
Rhino, 2x Meltagun, Plague Champion, Power Fist

7x Plague Marines 241
Rhino, 2x Meltagun, Plague Champion, Power Fist

7x Plague Marines 241
Rhino, 2x Meltagun, Plague Champion, Power Fist

HEAVY SUPPORT 720
3x Obliterators 240

3x Obliterators 240

3x Obliterators 240

you've made oblits even better. I'd gladly pay 5 pts extra for firing 2 weapons per turn (6 deep-striking TL meltaguns will ruin any tank's day)

Also, while reading the Hell Talon entry I found what I think is a small error.

Each turn, a Hell Talon Dive-bomber may drop a single bomb (Incendiary or Krak. Warp Bombs can only be used once per game in the following manner)

should probably be

Each turn, a Hell Talon Dive-bomber may drop a single bomb (Incendiary or Krak. Warp Bombs can only be used once per game) in the following manner.

And a question: The Icon of the Iron Warriors says I can take the 'Basilisk unit'. but there isn't really a Basilisk unit, just an 'Ordnance Battery' within which you can pick a Basilisk. Does this mean you can take 1 Basilisk or 3 per entry? And do you get to pick the upgrades the Ordnance Battery gets?

The way read it, taking the mark of the iron warriors allows you to take a single Basilisk whcih takes up a single Heavy Support slot

Right, in response to Yggsie choosing number '7', here is another teaser from my intended Eldar Codex:

Another of these 'pick a number' 'competitions' will be run next week for anyone interested...
A little be of investigation/observation should reveal how I chose which entry to preview, so someone could probably try to seek out a specific unit entry next time...

KilroyKiljoy wrote:After reading through some Night Lords fluff, I just had a little idea that sprung to mind. Including the rules for their Icon, why not give them Night Vision as well? They are stated to have excellent eyesight in absolute darkness in the fluff, far above that of the normal Space Marine implants.

Just a little extra to give people a little more incentive while not drastically changing much of anything.

It's a nice idea, but I think there are a few flaws in it: A) Not all Night Lord Warbands are either compromised of Night Lords (so some non-heresy Marines may have been recruited), B) Non-Night Lord warbands may be using the Night Lord rules and hence not have the improved night-sight and C) Whilst wearing helms, all astartes vision is pretty equal AFAIK.
It's a nice idea and I really did consider it, but I don't think I shall include it for the above reasons and being happy with their existing options...

Yggdrasil wrote:Ok, here's my take... *snip!*
Magic number = Nurgle-7 !

[edit : I don't really know if this is a real WAAC list, as I don't play in tournaments, and my lists usually go on the fluffy or fun side...]

I agree, it's really not a WAAC list! However, I'll take '7' on account of you being the 1st respondent!

Viper217 wrote:Hello, I haven't yet had a chance to sit and kick out a WAAC list with your codex yet, so I'll post one I've played.

HQ: Chaos Lord, Icon of Word Bearers, Dark Apostle, Blessing of Chaos, Power Weapon, Personal Icon - 180

Troop: 8x Khorne Berzerkers, Skull Champion with power fist and personal icon - 214

Heavy Support: Chaos Land Raider with dozer blade - 245

2x Troops: 10x Chaos Space Marines, meltagun, flamer, marks of chaos undivided. Aspiring Champion with power fist, personal icon - 200 (so 400 when x2)

2x Dedicated Transports: Chaos Rhino - 35 (so 70 when 2x)

3x Troops: 8x Lesser daemons - 88 (264 when 3x)

Elite: Chaos Dreadnaught with mark of chaos undivided and twin-linked autocannon - 130

Total points: 1498

Basically its a 'rush right at your enemies' list, with 3 units of lesser daemons to come in off any of the 4 icons where needed to tip the scales in assaults. The Dark Apostle rule on the word bearer chaos lord is the key, as it allows you to +1/-1 on your reserve rolls, so you can get the daemons right when you need them. The blessing of chaos on the lord (eternal warrior) is to keep him alive long enough to make use of it, even though hes pretty safe in the land raider with the zerkers. Another benefit to the list is running 6 troop choices for objective games.

Oh and for a number: 8

Thanks for the feedback and the list man; unfortunately Yggsie beat you to the number. Thanks for the list. You said you played with the list; mind if I ask how it went?

TiB wrote:Sorry to be 'that' guy, but just to see if it would still work:

1848/1850

HQ 230
Chaos Sorcerer 115
Icon of the Black Legion, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, Warp Rift

Chaos Sorcerer 115
Icon of the Black Legion, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, Warp Rift

ELITE 175
Chaos Dreadnought Magnate 175
Plasma Cannon, Missile Launcher

TROOPS 723
7x Plague Marines 241
Rhino, 2x Meltagun, Plague Champion, Power Fist

7x Plague Marines 241
Rhino, 2x Meltagun, Plague Champion, Power Fist

7x Plague Marines 241
Rhino, 2x Meltagun, Plague Champion, Power Fist

HEAVY SUPPORT 720
3x Obliterators 240

3x Obliterators 240

3x Obliterators 240

you've made oblits even better. I'd gladly pay 5 pts extra for firing 2 weapons per turn (6 deep-striking TL meltaguns will ruin any tank's day)

No need to apologise at all! I'm really happy you posted that list actually, it's good to be able to compare it to the 'best' of what the current CSM 'dex can do. Thanks man, seriously.
Honestly, I wouldn't really fear that list; it's still only got 3 troops and 4 vehicles at 1850pts, whilst you have invested A LOT of points into the obliterators.
I think the 5pts increase for the firepower is countered by it being short-ranged and leaving you vulnerable to assault. That was my intention anyway. I think people would be reluctant to pay any more for them to be honest...

Also, while reading the Hell Talon entry I found what I think is a small error.

Each turn, a Hell Talon Dive-bomber may drop a single bomb (Incendiary or Krak. Warp Bombs can only be used once per game in the following manner)

should probably be

Each turn, a Hell Talon Dive-bomber may drop a single bomb (Incendiary or Krak. Warp Bombs can only be used once per game) in the following manner.

And a question: The Icon of the Iron Warriors says I can take the 'Basilisk unit'. but there isn't really a Basilisk unit, just an 'Ordnance Battery' within which you can pick a Basilisk. Does this mean you can take 1 Basilisk or 3 per entry? And do you get to pick the upgrades the Ordnance Battery gets?

There is a Basilisk Unit, it's on page 45, hence only Iron Warriors can take this unit. It's a seperate 'unit' (but pretty much the same within fluff/feel etc) to an Ordnance Battery, so try to avoid thinking about the IG version for anything other than comparison, I'd advise.
Regarding the Hell-talon bit, I think it makes sense both ways or even without the 'in the following manner' bit altogether! I'm going to look into it a bit more, but it appears to me that it makes sense both ways.
Thanks for the feedback man!


As ever, all C & C is welcome. Thanks!

I know it's all first draft stuff, but here is what I noticed on that sneak peak of your seer council.

Cost. It's 70 points for 2 warlocks AND a farseer, but it's 35 points to add another warlock? Yay free farseer? Though noticing the wording of the jetbike note, I am guessing they are intended to work as they do now, where they are really their own unit, but one can only be taken per farseer?

Love the fact you gave them the extra attack and plasma grenades. Now if only Witchblade rules really reflected their fluff. :(

Just Dave wrote:

Thanks for the feedback and the list man; unfortunately Yggsie beat you to the number. Thanks for the list. You said you played with the list; mind if I ask how it went?

It went really well, though that was more due to everything going exactly as planned and better than avg rolling. I played vs an IG player who outflanked maybe 1/2 of his stuff (spearhead deployment) so I split each vehicle off toward each of the 3 groups of enemies, the land raider going up the mid. Each transport luckily survived to reach their targets, and as I disembarked all 3 of the units of daemons came in, allowing me to assault twice or more the amount of units I would have without them. The IG folded in CC as expected and their vehicles were popped by either the dread, LR, or power fist champs. As it was an annihilate game, I ended up winning 10-2, with only 2 daemon units fully lost. It could have gone alot worse, but pretty much every essential roll worked, such as glancing front armor of the IG leman russ with land raider on approach, shaking it, or other lucky things.

I think I've played using your codex 6 times now, winning almost all of the games. I think this is due to noone in my group of 8 friends play SW, BA, GK, or DE, so while this codex seems to be balanced vs those (as it should be I think) it is very strong at exploiting the weaknesses of older codexes. It has lots of mobility to catch tau, enough CC to beat orks straight up, and enough shooting to at least give a solid chance vs IG. The sheer variety of units in the codex (which is by far its best asset, including legion rules in that variety) lets you adapt your list to fight any opponent, or make a great all-comers list.

I am really enjoying using the codex, I don't ever plan on using the 'normal' CSM dex unless I am forced now. Playing fluffy, competitive, and fun lists all at the same time is too awesome to stop. Keep up the great work Dave, and I will definitely tell my eldar playing friend about your work in progress codex!

Just Dave wrote:I agree, it's really not a WAAC list! However, I'll take '7' on account of you being the 1st

respondent!

Well, what's wrong with it ? It has cheap Troops for holding objectives (Heretics & Daemons), some resilient Plague

Marines to carry the fight to the enemy, some mobile AT units (Termicide, melta bikers, Oblits), some anti-horde

stuff (Chaos Sorcerer w/ Nurgle's Rot - S4 might be a bit too powerful, btw?, Hellfire

Predator, Defiler)...

Is that because I didn't include the "mandatory" Lash Prince ?

Amanax wrote:I know it's all first draft stuff, but here is what I noticed on that sneak peak of your seer council.

Cost. It's 70 points for 2 warlocks AND a farseer, but it's 35 points to add another warlock? Yay free farseer?

Though noticing the wording of the jetbike note, I am guessing they are intended to work as they do now, where they

are really their own unit, but one can only be taken per farseer?

Love the fact you gave them the extra attack and plasma grenades. Now if only Witchblade rules really reflected

their fluff. :(

I think the Farseer is not included in the cost (as there is no stat line for it). But I agree, the wording "2

Warlocks (& Farseer)" is pretty misleading...
What's with the fluff of the Witchblades ?

Also the sneak peak doesn't show what's special with upgrading Warlocks for Spiritseer or Warseer. Should they deserve a specific statline ? Or specific gear / psychic powers / rules?

I am intrigued...

Yggdrasil wrote:
Warlocks (& Farseer)" is pretty misleading...
What's with the fluff of the Witchblades ?

I am intrigued...

Well, according to the Eldar codex out now:
"A Warlock not only learns the runes of war but also how to wield the witchblade, a powerful Eldar force weapon. Witchblades write and twist with living runes, and focus the power of the warlock's mind into destructive energy through a helical psychic matrix running through the blade. In the hands of a warlock, a witchblade strikes with a devastating burst of force that can incinerate a foe where he stands"

I mean yeah, the wounds on a 2+ and is S9 against vehicles is awesome, but I would expect at least the ability to ignore armour with a "Powerful Eldar Force Weapon" wouldn't you? You'd just be trading easier hits and tank threat for instant death capability.

Amanax wrote:
Well, according to the Eldar codex out now:
*snip*
I mean yeah, the wounds on a 2+ and is S9 against vehicles is awesome, but I would expect at least the ability to ignore armour with a "Powerful Eldar Force Weapon" wouldn't you? You'd just be trading easier hits and tank threat for instant death capability.

Well, TBH, I think the "2+ wounds" and "S9 against AV" looks more frightening to me than an instant death ability.

Plus, when I think of instant death weapons (e.g force weapons) I imagine the psyker leeching on the struck foe's lifeforce & soul, until he is no more than a dessicated husk, and it doesn't scream "Eldar" to me...

But I guess there are other ways to "instant death" a living being - surging a shockwave through his nervous system, for instance...