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Made in au
Dakka Veteran





 addnid wrote:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Three Dimas can beat him in CC for not too much more points than what he cost, and only one of em dying. Just saying.


The death guard player, if he knows what he is doing, will keep models close to morty’s base (but perhaps the rest of the DG army is too slow to keep up with morty), bubble wrapping of sorts, to make it impossible for us to get three dimas (perhaps even two) into melee. Perhaps an exocrine or our smites or hive guards would be able to clear a path for all three dimas, I don’t know, theoryhammer can’t solve this (I think I just did an MChammer reference without even trying to hah hah)
So perhaps you are correct Nitro Zeus, practice will say


Fully agree. Math doesn't tell the whole story, practice will tell! It's definitely not hopeless for our good builds at least though, he's much scarier for some other armies I think.


 Zande4 wrote:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Three Dimas can beat him in CC for not too much more points than what he cost, and only one of em dying. Just saying.


Can they?

If he gets Miasma off, they do 2 wounds each. If he doesn't get Miasma off, they do 2.7 wounds each. Even with Adrenaline Surge and no Miasma, three of them do 10.8 wounds and that's the absolute dream scenario that you're probably not getting off.

Scythed Hierodules don't fair much better doing 2.7 wounds if he is Miasma'd and 3.6 wounds if he isn't. If he takes the WL trait that makes 4+ needed to wound, he can reduce the Hierodule's output even further. Two Hierodules hitting first with Adrenaline Surge are only doing 10.8 wounds, so better than the Dimas but still a struggle.

-1 to hit / -1 to wound damage / T8 / 3+/4++/5+++ / disabling auras and re-rolls with a few other knick knacks he can look at adding like halving movement / only being wounded on a 4+ and disabling AP-1/-2, disgusting. He can also up himself to T9 which makes Dimas even more hopeless.



I mean even with Miasma, your calcs still leave Morty nearly dead by the time your turn rolls back around with him having only done 230 pts or so damage, and him definitely dead without doing anymore damage by the end of your turn thanks to Kraken. Those numbers really aren't that bad or at all unfair. He costs 1/4 their army in one model, he shouldnt be getting killed in a single turn.

Upping himself to T9 is admittedly something that I had overlooked and yeah he totally can do that! Still only impacts Hierodules though and they were the better option of the two, that just puts them on the level of Dimas and comes at the cost of a different Warlord power at least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morty is a good unit that much is clear. But he's not particularly good against our scoring/denial lists which can easily give him blue balls and would be 500 pts of Death Guard better spent in bodies, He's better vs our brawling lists but we are at least capable of brawling him reasonably cost efficiently, there's only ever gonna be one of him, and because of our speed vs Death Guards we can direct more resources to that fight than he will be able to in most cases. And there's things the Death Guard player can do to leverage their strengths as an army too, so it will come down to the skill of the players and the flow of that particular game imo. So that's my thoughts on Morty. Strong unit, as he should be. But nothing to panic about!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/18 23:31:01


 
   
Made in au
Infiltrating Broodlord





Brisbane

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Upping himself to T9 is admittedly something that I had overlooked and yeah he totally can do that! Still only impacts Hierodules though and they were the better option of the two, that just puts them on the level of Dimas and comes at the cost of a different Warlord power at least.


I think I was wrong there. He gets his 3 default WL traits from the main WL trait tree and then gets to pick 1 from the 7 Plague Companies. So he won't get to pick the +1 Toughness I think

Hive Fleet Basilisk
Goffs Orks
Sautehk Necrons
Deathguard
Kroot Mercs  
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





Well that’s a relief at least. Hierodules should mince him if he doesn’t have Miasma up, tho it’s a bit hairier if he does, but I think even if he kills 2 full MCs before dropping we still come out ahead on points, tho a little more resources tied up unfortunately.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Man I cannot remember a time when flyrants weren't one of the strongest options, though I did skip 7th. I will always love my floor-waddler regardless.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Zande4 wrote:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Upping himself to T9 is admittedly something that I had overlooked and yeah he totally can do that! Still only impacts Hierodules though and they were the better option of the two, that just puts them on the level of Dimas and comes at the cost of a different Warlord power at least.


I think I was wrong there. He gets his 3 default WL traits from the main WL trait tree and then gets to pick 1 from the 7 Plague Companies. So he won't get to pick the +1 Toughness I think


Yep, he can't get either Rotten Constituion or Hulking Physique, so luckily he is "only" T8 18W 3+/4++/5+++ -1 damage.

I think that Morty is the first good target for spore mines


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Man I cannot remember a time when flyrants weren't one of the strongest options, though I did skip 7th. I will always love my floor-waddler regardless.


Be careful with those tyrants.

If the DG codex is anything to go by, monstrous rending claws on tyrants are getting axed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/19 07:07:12


 
   
Made in fr
Stabbin' Skarboy






Monstrous rending claws on tyrants will no longer be an option in the next nid codex, that is 100% certain.
Which is completely logical, I mean when you think about why did we have codex options not included in the box ? It was stupid to have MRCs in the first place.
I love kitbashing stuff, so I will miss this, but if I am being honest I never understood why some kits would be sold with all options bar one or two of them... It just didn’t make sense to me.

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
You spread three barbed heirodules out...
Who just has 3 Hierodules?
 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Three Dimas ...
Who just has three Dimas lying around?



Some people play on tabletop simulator.

I have seen people doing good Dima proxies out of standing tyranofexes. At some point I will kit bash mine.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





Auckland, NZ

 addnid wrote:
Monstrous rending claws on tyrants will no longer be an option in the next nid codex, that is 100% certain.
Which is completely logical, I mean when you think about why did we have codex options not included in the box ? It was stupid to have MRCs in the first place.
I love kitbashing stuff, so I will miss this, but if I am being honest I never understood why some kits would be sold with all options bar one or two of them... It just didn’t make sense to me.

We had them as an option because they came with the 3rd edition tyrant model. GW was trying to permit options from older models to still be valid.
But now they have Legends for that, so that's where it'll probably end up.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

I’m worried that flyrants might loose one option spot for their wings, as that’s how the model is built. So it’s either shooty or stabby, but not both. GW is completely inconsistent, so who knows how things are going to fall out.

Took my nids out for a little crusade game for the first time. Came out with a victory! Still need to work on remembering all the rules and upgrades. And get more stuff painted.

Broodlord was my MVP. Psychic blasting was good, and he blends pretty well in CC. Bit soft when it comes to taking hits. I guess that balances.

   
Made in us
Emboldened Warlock





NJ, USA

Arson Fire wrote:
 addnid wrote:
Monstrous rending claws on tyrants will no longer be an option in the next nid codex, that is 100% certain.
Which is completely logical, I mean when you think about why did we have codex options not included in the box ? It was stupid to have MRCs in the first place.
I love kitbashing stuff, so I will miss this, but if I am being honest I never understood why some kits would be sold with all options bar one or two of them... It just didn’t make sense to me.

We had them as an option because they came with the 3rd edition tyrant model. GW was trying to permit options from older models to still be valid.
But now they have Legends for that, so that's where it'll probably end up.


We also have them for the original forge world flying hive tyrant (still the best one IMO!). I'll be very sad if they take away MRC and I have to retire him.

For the greater glory of the Zoat Empire!


 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

The FW flying Hive Tyrant has been out of production for a while, so I'm expecting it will become legends.
   
Made in us
Emboldened Warlock





NJ, USA

 Tyran wrote:
The FW flying Hive Tyrant has been out of production for a while, so I'm expecting it will become legends.


Sadly, I expect that you are correct.

I know of no other game company that hoses their long time players so regularly and so thoroughly!

For the greater glory of the Zoat Empire!


 
   
Made in mx
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

The grass is always greener on the other side.

I don't think there is a customer base that loves their respective company.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/19 21:13:40


 
   
Made in au
Infiltrating Broodlord





Brisbane

A Hierophant with Murderous Size, Frenzied Metabolism & Adrenaline Surge does 19.6 wounds to Mortarion after shooting then charging.

If he has Miasma then you can throw in Pathogenic Slime in addition to the above and do 17.2 wounds.

An absolute bargain at 850 points, 9 or 11 command points and one of your adaptive biology slots...

Just as much of bargain cost wise in real life as it is in game!

Hive Fleet Basilisk
Goffs Orks
Sautehk Necrons
Deathguard
Kroot Mercs  
   
Made in us
Roarin' Runtherd





Maine

Nids taking 4th at a GT with 3x Barbed Heirodules and the discounted warriors. Looks like meat is back on the menu boys!

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-objective-secured-perth-gt/


God is real! 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Speaking of the dimachaeron, we bought my wife one and it's assembled now.

How is it in game over all? Any do's/don't in game? What would you (non-fw) run with it? Best model by far but stats make it look fairly squishy.

Another quick question, I saw this from a frontline article and was confused:
If going Kraken again, (I always end up to Kraken), a Dima and a Toxicrene work well together as Swarmy can Hive Commander the Toxicrene into a charge, the Dima can take Opportunistic Advance, and they can hit the same chaff wall together, unlikely to break it, but the Toxicrene can pop its strat to hold the unit in place, so both are safe for a turn before the Dima Falls back over the chaff and is free to charge. This is also a great way to try and get the Digestion Spine to trigger.


Is there a way the Dima can charge with OA that I'm unaware of? I don't know how both are going into combat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/20 19:10:59


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Portland,OR

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Nids taking 4th at a GT with 3x Barbed Heirodules and the discounted warriors. Looks like meat is back on the menu boys!

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-objective-secured-perth-gt/



MSU Warriors in paticular look good to me. The Big Bugs are awesome, as all of them are. I wonder if someone can build a list that does not use such expensive figures. Tabletop over the Internet is fine, but dang that is a lot of dollars in real-space!
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

Particularly perilous given the wild swings typical of FW changes.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Roarin' Runtherd





Maine

I agree! Real dollar they are expensive, but at least the GW is writing rules for FW units now... we'll see how that ends up.

God is real! 
   
Made in au
Infiltrating Broodlord





Brisbane

Which Hive Fleet do you all favour for these FW Nidzilla lists.

Kraken, Jormungandr look like the best two to me. These are the only two I've tried multiple times in game for my dual Dimachaeron, Scythed + Barbed Hierodule list.

A custom one of Prey-sight and something like Metamorphic Regrowth may also be good although I'm not sold on Metamorphic Regrowth, it may come in clutch bumping something up a bracket in the damage chart but my experience is that the big FW bugs get focus fired, when an opponent targets one, they're killed to completion, not left to linger.

Prey-sight though means the Hierodules are hitting on 2s / rr1s on the charge, not much survives a charge so this is juicy. You could take Hypermetabolic Acceleration for a poor man's Kraken too.

Hive Fleet Basilisk
Goffs Orks
Sautehk Necrons
Deathguard
Kroot Mercs  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Verthane wrote:
We also have them for the original forge world flying hive tyrant (still the best one IMO!). I'll be very sad if they take away MRC and I have to retire him.


The FW flying Hive Tyrant had Scything Talons for its lower arm slots. At least, that's what came with mine- and I think the only GW/FW example of Rending Claws on a Hive Tyrant I've ever seen was in the 3rd Ed codex.

Even in the 3rd Ed codex, they were kind of a pointless take since the monstrous creature rules superseded them. Just a way to save on points, I guess. I can't recall if they were an option in 4th/5th but I definitely never saw them on the table. Honestly it's been odd to me that MRC was even an option in 8th; it's never been in a plastic kit and has only really been popular due to inexplicable rules discrepancy with Scything Talons.

Can you share a pic of yours? I'm curious about what you've got.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/22 03:56:59


 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





Auckland, NZ

 catbarf wrote:
 Verthane wrote:
We also have them for the original forge world flying hive tyrant (still the best one IMO!). I'll be very sad if they take away MRC and I have to retire him.


The FW flying Hive Tyrant had Scything Talons for its lower arm slots. At least, that's what came with mine- and I think the only GW/FW example of Rending Claws on a Hive Tyrant I've ever seen was in the 3rd Ed codex.

Even in the 3rd Ed codex, they were kind of a pointless take since the monstrous creature rules superseded them. Just a way to save on points, I guess. I can't recall if they were an option in 4th/5th but I definitely never saw them on the table. Honestly it's been odd to me that MRC was even an option in 8th; it's never been in a plastic kit and has only really been popular due to inexplicable rules discrepancy with Scything Talons.

Can you share a pic of yours? I'm curious about what you've got.

I guess the rending claws being referred to on the FW tyrant model are the feet. They are claw like, rather than the hooves most nids have on their hind legs. But it's kind of the same as how people count the wings on the modern tyrant model as being MRC. In that it's a good enough 'counts as' to use in game, but it's still a slight stretch to call them that.
Consider that the FW tyrant also could be bought without wings, and that on-foot version with 2 upper arm weapons still had the claw feet.

The 3rd edition tyrant came with the same weapons sprue that used to come with Warrior kits. Which has a pair of rending claws. As you say, they were kind of a waste to use though.
Spoiler:

Prior to 8th, the weapon has been an option in the 3rd, 4th, and 6th edition codexes. Although not the 5th ed codex for some reason.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Ah, that's interesting. I've never heard or seen the feet being counted as Rending Claws. The wings on the FW Hive Tyrant are sculpted as Scything Talons with membrane stretched between the 'blades', so I've always seen the FW flying Tyrant played as having two sets of Scything Talons.

They honestly don't look much like claws to me. Yeah, they're splayed individual 'toes' rather than hooves, but that's how the feet were on the original 3rd Ed Tyrant (as you can see in that photo), along with a few other creatures from that era like the Scythed Hierodule.

That was the photo I was thinking of in the 3rd Ed codex. Wasn't a useful loadout (except to save points) but it sure looked cool.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I was surprised MRC was still an option for Tyrants in the current dex, the writing has been on the wall for a long time that option was going away. I can still use my lovely conversion counts-as for something else so nbd.

I suspect that the flyrant will get only one customizable slot with a mandatory melee weapon to represent the legs. Was also surprised that was not how it was when the model first hit, actually.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hey guys, I'm interested in starting a tyranid army themed around Carnifexes running up the board and smashing through everything with some limited fire support from biovores. Got the idea from the Scythe of the Emperor book where a Phalanx of Carnifexes just smashes its way through everything. Just curious has anyone attempted a Carnifex Heavy army in 9th?

Raptors Armoured Spearhead 3000pts.
Hive Fleet Kaiju Siegebreaker Force 3000pts. 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

I haven't played any 9th but with all the scale creep in the game it would be nice if we could field Carnifexes in units in the new book.

They've fallen pretty far from the "living battering ram" imposing monsters they were once depicted as.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Thing is its role has changed as the army has evolved. In the past it was the second biggest model after the hive tyrant and the carny was basically our entire "tank like" force. So it had to do it all in one model. So it had good stats in general to achieve that.

As the army has gained a lot more models and a lot of bigger models with specific roles the carny has been left behind. It's no longer the big monster, instead its got the Exocrine, the Tervigone, the Tyranofex etc.... all taking old roles that the carny offered and specialising in those roles.

Now its shifted to a middleweight and works better in groups rather than alone. I think we've got to accept that unless GW rebuilds the rules and makes the bigger models so expensive that you might only take one in a 2K army; then the carny is going to be middle not top weight. And honestly I'm ok with that role for it, it can still be the toolbox its just a support toolbox that adds weight and adds numbers.

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

 Overread wrote:
Thing is its role has changed as the army has evolved. In the past it was the second biggest model after the hive tyrant and the carny was basically our entire "tank like" force. So it had to do it all in one model. So it had good stats in general to achieve that.

As the army has gained a lot more models and a lot of bigger models with specific roles the carny has been left behind. It's no longer the big monster, instead its got the Exocrine, the Tervigone, the Tyranofex etc.... all taking old roles that the carny offered and specialising in those roles.

Now its shifted to a middleweight and works better in groups rather than alone. I think we've got to accept that unless GW rebuilds the rules and makes the bigger models so expensive that you might only take one in a 2K army; then the carny is going to be middle not top weight. And honestly I'm ok with that role for it, it can still be the toolbox its just a support toolbox that adds weight and adds numbers.


Agreed

Back when you might have a tank or a dread as a big centerpiece, the carnefex was a match. But now we have primarchs and knights. Scale creep is not just little models from old editions, but the fact that the Big Bad end boss from the squad level roots of the game is now yard trash on the epic scale we have now.

I think especially with the new 9th edition stuff there is some serious codex creep going on. (Again). A lot of statlines are getting bumped up, and we’ve not had our turn yet. If similar things get applied to us, life will be good. Not that I’m holding my breath.

But the carny’s marine equivalent, the dreadnought, got a flat -1D on it to help make it tougher.
I don’t see our little gribbles going to 2W, but if genestealers did? It would help them.
DE look to get getting an extra attack across the board. The 8/9th changes of not longer getting extra attacks for chargeing/paired weapons hurt. Could be see something for us to help bring the stabbing back to the bigs?

/wishlisting

on topic.

Looking at the carnefex on paper, I think they are OK. Very flexible, nice options, look cool. With the upped lethality of a lot of stuff in the game, probably not that hard to take out. But if you saturate the table in big stuff, that might be less of an issue. But you’d need to make a skew list.

Getting a pair of them is on my to-buy list, once I paint more of the pile of shame. They are an iconic part of our army. Hopefully the next batch of rules will treat them well.

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Rhinos are tougher than Carnifexes.

It's a travesty.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in mx
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

Well if you want something as durable as a tank, take a Tyrannofex.

Personally I would prefer improvements to our heavier monsters like Tyrannofexes regaining their old 2+ save and BS 3+, Toxicrenes getting shrouding spores, Haruspexes getting a lot of love because they really need it.

   
 
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