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If you have two rollas or box someone in, then they are hardly obsolete. Positioning a rolla in range of somewhere where the enemy wants to will force them to make a decision.

Besides, walkers, MCs and for that matter the majority of units in the game generally move less than 12" a turn.

Dribble Joy wrote:If you have two rollas or box someone in, then they are hardly obsolete. Positioning a rolla in range of somewhere where the enemy wants to will force them to make a decision.

Besides, walkers, MCs and for that matter the majority of units in the game generally move less than 12" a turn.

Yes but for some wierd reason a giant spikey rolling pin that crushes vehicles, still allows infantry models to take their armor save. So if that's all the Deffrolla is good for now, I'm not sure if 20 points wouldn't be better spend on Rokkits.

Here is my first attempt at validating Ork Dredbash. Best as I can tell, anything short of 2k is not really gonna cut it.

Tell me what you think.

HQ:
Big Mek w/kff 85 pts
Big Mek w/kff 85 pts
170

Elite:
15x Burnas w/ 3 Meks - 225
15x Burnas w/ 3 Meks - 225
450

Troops
1 Deff Dread w/3x DCCW, Grot Riggers, Plates and Skorcha 110pts
1 Deff Dread w/3x DCCW, Grot Riggers, Plates and Skorcha 110pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts


Heavy Support:
Killa Kans x3 - Rokkits - 150
Killa Kans x3 - Rokkits - 150
Killa Kans x3 - Rokkits - 150
450

Total
1950

Looks good but id recommend dropping the skorcha's on the dreads for another DCCW (30 burna boys is enough!) and dropping one squad of shoota's and increasing another to 30 strong, that gives you 90 points, and ditch grot riggers and armour plates, giving you 120 Points. This means you can have a dakkjet /w extra supa shoota, to provide long range fire support (i.e glancebash a manticore turn 2 so it doesnt level your horde) as well as protect the flanks etc. Remember your 8 Meks can handle not having riggers!, and dont forget your 5+ vehicle cover save from KFF, to make the riggers and armour plates needed, and to stop 11 walkers with that much "mek", they're goign to need like 15 long fangs minimum. 10 hits, 6 glance/penetrate, 2 get saved. So if 15 lascannons shot one deff dread, it will just about die. Food for thought! (Remember thats 15 lascannons...most armies dont have that...) - Mathhammer Averaging!

Orkaswampa wrote:Looks good but id recommend dropping the skorcha's on the dreads for another DCCW (30 burna boys is enough!) and dropping one squad of shoota's and increasing another to 30 strong, that gives you 90 points, and ditch grot riggers and armour plates, giving you 120 Points. This means you can have a dakkjet /w extra supa shoota, to provide long range fire support (i.e glancebash a manticore turn 2 so it doesnt level your horde) as well as protect the flanks etc. Remember your 8 Meks can handle not having riggers!, and dont forget your 5+ vehicle cover save from KFF, to make the riggers and armour plates needed, and to stop 11 walkers with that much "mek", they're goign to need like 15 long fangs minimum. 10 hits, 6 glance/penetrate, 2 get saved. So if 15 lascannons shot one deff dread, it will just about die. Food for thought! (Remember thats 15 lascannons...most armies dont have that...) - Mathhammer Averaging!

I agree completely with everything you just said. I'm curious though, could this be pulled off at 1500 and still be viable?

lol nice
And yes it can! If you use dredmob army list from kastorel novem your opponent should run away from this, pure deff dread meka dread.

But that's for another day, here, assuming dakkajet is in -
-10 Burna's (shared over both squads) 150 Point
- Shoota Squad of 20 - 165 (Keep a squad of 30, you can use the other squad of 20 for objective / detour)
- 3 Kill Kanz - 150

You're now at - 1555 Points.
This is where its tricky :( Id drop the 6 rokkits on the kans, which cost 90 points, giving you 45 points to put upgrades on the kans, then stick 6 skorcha's on them (Wall of death, also compensates for burna loss and allows them to run off on their own and not get mashed by a power fist), leaving you with 15 points left over, might as well smack a grot oiler on each big mek and one on another mek, or stick another burna boy in.

But it's up to you! 1500 is much different to 2k :(

Erm...just realised you could have 18 Killa Kans and 2 Deff Dreads (Troop dreads) in 2k, DOUBLE FORCE ORG ;D

Big Mek /w KFF X2 - 85
Deff Dread /w 2x DCCW x2 - 210
18x Killa Kans /w 18x Rokkits - 900
20x Shoota Boyz /w Nob /w BP - 140
20x Shoota Boyz /w Nob /w BP - 140
20x Shoota Boyz /w Nob /w BP - 140
Dakkajet /w Fighta Ace + Extra SS - 130
Dakkajet /w Fighta Ace + Extra SS - 130
10 Gretchin to grab an objective you palce in the safest possible position on your board edge or to hide in a building in kill games - 40pts

-drools a bit- However i reckon mroe people will play 1999 now but oh well, that looks nasty.

Orkaswampa wrote:lol nice
And yes it can! If you use dredmob army list from kastorel novem your opponent should run away from this, pure deff dread meka dread.

But that's for another day, here, assuming dakkajet is in -
-10 Burna's (shared over both squads) 150 Point
- Shoota Squad of 20 - 165 (Keep a squad of 30, you can use the other squad of 20 for objective / detour)
- 3 Kill Kanz - 150

You're now at - 1555 Points.
This is where its tricky :( Id drop the 6 rokkits on the kans, which cost 90 points, giving you 45 points to put upgrades on the kans, then stick 6 skorcha's on them (Wall of death, also compensates for burna loss and allows them to run off on their own and not get mashed by a power fist), leaving you with 15 points left over, might as well smack a grot oiler on each big mek and one on another mek, or stick another burna boy in.

But it's up to you! 1500 is much different to 2k :(

Erm...just realised you could have 18 Killa Kans and 2 Deff Dreads (Troop dreads) in 2k, DOUBLE FORCE ORG ;D

Big Mek /w KFF X2 - 85
Deff Dread /w 2x DCCW x2 - 210
18x Killa Kans /w 18x Rokkits - 900
20x Shoota Boyz /w Nob /w BP - 140
20x Shoota Boyz /w Nob /w BP - 140
20x Shoota Boyz /w Nob /w BP - 140
Dakkajet /w Fighta Ace + Extra SS - 130
Dakkajet /w Fighta Ace + Extra SS - 130
10 Gretchin to grab an objective you palce in the safest possible position on your board edge or to hide in a building in kill games - 40pts

-drools a bit- However i reckon mroe people will play 1999 now but oh well, that looks nasty.

Hahaha, oh hell no.
I painted 9 Kans and 2 Deffdreds all at once. I can promise you I'll never do that again. No matter how crazy it would look on the field.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Would love to see what others in this thread have been running in their 6th Ed. games and what your experiences were.

One day someone will run that dread list, one day

Orkaswampa wrote:lol nice
And yes it can! If you use dredmob army list from kastorel novem your opponent should run away from this, pure deff dread meka dread.

But that's for another day, here, assuming dakkajet is in -
-10 Burna's (shared over both squads) 150 Point
- Shoota Squad of 20 - 165 (Keep a squad of 30, you can use the other squad of 20 for objective / detour)
- 3 Kill Kanz - 150

You're now at - 1555 Points.
This is where its tricky :( Id drop the 6 rokkits on the kans, which cost 90 points, giving you 45 points to put upgrades on the kans, then stick 6 skorcha's on them (Wall of death, also compensates for burna loss and allows them to run off on their own and not get mashed by a power fist), leaving you with 15 points left over, might as well smack a grot oiler on each big mek and one on another mek, or stick another burna boy in.

But it's up to you! 1500 is much different to 2k :(

Erm...just realised you could have 18 Killa Kans and 2 Deff Dreads (Troop dreads) in 2k, DOUBLE FORCE ORG ;D

Big Mek /w KFF X2 - 85
Deff Dread /w 2x DCCW x2 - 210
18x Killa Kans /w 18x Rokkits - 900
20x Shoota Boyz /w Nob /w BP - 140
20x Shoota Boyz /w Nob /w BP - 140
20x Shoota Boyz /w Nob /w BP - 140
Dakkajet /w Fighta Ace + Extra SS - 130
Dakkajet /w Fighta Ace + Extra SS - 130
10 Gretchin to grab an objective you palce in the safest possible position on your board edge or to hide in a building in kill games - 40pts

-drools a bit- However i reckon mroe people will play 1999 now but oh well, that looks nasty.

You need a second HQ.

Cross posting this list I found. Anyone want to comment on it?
It looks delicious.

HQ:
Warboss
Power Klaw, Warbike, Attack Squig, Cybork
[150]

Warboss
Power Klaw, Warbike, Attack Squig, Cybork, Ammo Runt
[153]

Troops:
(10) Nob Bikers
Painboy, Cybork, 2x PKs, Waaagh! Banner, Bosspole
[600]

(10) Nob Bikers
Painboy, Cybork, 2x PKs, Waaagh! Banner, Bosspole
[600]

(19) Gretchin
Runtherd
[67]

(19) Gretchin
Runtherd
[67]

Fast Attack:
Dakkajet
Supa Shoota
[120]

Dakkajet
Supa Shoota
[120]

Dakkajet
Supa Shoota
[120]

[1997]

Two absolutely absurd deathstars with:4+ Cover - Better than most
5+ FNP - good vs non-ID weapons now!
5+ Invuln - Always good, especially now with more constant FNP
4+ Armor (for what its worth)
2+/4+ Look out, Sir! - Boss up front to soak S10 wounds, 2+ LoS! for him, 4+ Los! otherwise for wound shenanigans
Unmodified T5 - so S10 to ID now!
Precision Strike - shooting and combat!
TL Weapons - Good vs Flyers (better chance at 6's)
S10 Power Klaw - Boss sports a nasty way to gut opposing enemies
Super, super fast unit - easier time assaulting than most units and often on turn two

The Gretchin just go in reserve and walk onto your two table-side objectives and hope no one notices. With the Bikers being so mobile, you can crush through your opponent and keep them tied down, so this should work.

The Dakkajets are your only real anti-air units - All of the three Supa Shootas are Twin-Linked, meaning more chances for success - though sadly Fighta Ace wasn't addressed in the FAQ to include Flyers (just skimmers and jetbikes). If ever it does get bumped to include Flyers, then these get even more nasty. 9 S6 shots should put a hurting on Flyers, even if only glancing to strip Hull Points. On Waaagh!, you get 18 S6 shots, meaning ~9 hits, which translates to roughly 3-4 Glances (or Pens) on AV10, 2-3 Glances (or Pens) on AV11, and 1-2 Glances on AV12 (rough math, don't quote me on this!). So, each Dakkajet can drop a Night Scythe the turn they arrive - which is solid, since they are the only ones spamming much numbers. This does mean that on Waaagh! turn you should put a lot of effort into popping Stormravens - which should be fewer in number anyhow!

I think its disgusting and only the most extreme torrent of fire lists and/or bad dice rolls will cause much worry. With the old threat of Thundernators removed, few enemies can muster the S10 needed to kill this list and with Precision Strike in shooting, you can pile wounds onto the Daemon Hammers and whatnot that might prove an issue.

Here's the maths (assuming Ace gets fixed):

Average number of glancing/penetrating hits when firing 9(18) BS3 twin-linked supa shoota shots:

AV10 AV11 AV12
3.5(7) 2.3(4.6) 1.1(2.3)

Even more killy then you thought

You need a second HQ.

Big Mek X2 means 2 big meks, thats 2 hq

According to the copy of the Dakkajet rules available through iTunes Fighta Ace does work against flyers. I don't have a copy to verify but that's what I've heard.

@ Dribble: I didn't know Da Waaagh!! was still active. I thought it had died a lonely death to spambots- Wait. Nevermind. I was thinking of Da Gargant Owner's Klub.


Also, at those Dreadbash lists- those aren't really Dreadbash. More like a modified Kan Wall. What you want for a Dreadbash at 2000 is to swap two of those Boyz mobs (from the first posted) for a Big Mek w/ Mega Armour and another kitted out Dredd. (that's a Boyz mob per dred/mek combo).

Also, replace any remaining Boyz with Killa Kanz, and split the Burnas up into more mobz, with more Meks. Grot Riggers on everything, to keep repairing those Hull Points. The point of this list is to have pretty much everything on the field be immune to anything Strength 4 and under, and have so many of them that the Heavy Weapons are swamped.

Give the Meks in the Burna squads Big Shootas, and use them (as Characters!) to snipe out the Heavy Weapons, as well.

Fliers can choose to gain Skyfire (or what ever it's called) at the beginning of their shooting phase, though I'm not sure if they can if they are in hover mode.

mrfantastical wrote:Yes but for some wierd reason a giant spikey rolling pin that crushes vehicles, still allows infantry models to take their armor save. So if that's all the Deffrolla is good for now, I'm not sure if 20 points wouldn't be better spend on Rokkits.

20 points is naff all compared to what it can win you back. A few wounds off an MC, two muhreens, a bunch of 'umies. I still think it's a good investment, but not the no-brainer choice it once was. Which can only be a good thing.

Anvildude wrote:@ Dribble: I didn't know Da Waaagh!! was still active. I thought it had died a lonely death to spambots- Wait. Nevermind. I was thinking of Da Gargant Owner's Klub.


Also, at those Dreadbash lists- those aren't really Dreadbash. More like a modified Kan Wall. What you want for a Dreadbash at 2000 is to swap two of those Boyz mobs (from the first posted) for a Big Mek w/ Mega Armour and another kitted out Dredd. (that's a Boyz mob per dred/mek combo).

Also, replace any remaining Boyz with Killa Kanz, and split the Burnas up into more mobz, with more Meks. Grot Riggers on everything, to keep repairing those Hull Points. The point of this list is to have pretty much everything on the field be immune to anything Strength 4 and under, and have so many of them that the Heavy Weapons are swamped.

Give the Meks in the Burna squads Big Shootas, and use them (as Characters!) to snipe out the Heavy Weapons, as well.

I'm digging the idea, but I don't see where the scoring units are. How do we hold objectives with that kind of list?

matphat wrote:Here is my first attempt at validating Ork Dredbash. Best as I can tell, anything short of 2k is not really gonna cut it.

Tell me what you think.

HQ:
Big Mek w/kff 85 pts
Big Mek w/kff 85 pts
170

Elite:
15x Burnas w/ 3 Meks - 225
15x Burnas w/ 3 Meks - 225
450

Troops
1 Deff Dread w/3x DCCW, Grot Riggers, Plates and Skorcha 110pts
1 Deff Dread w/3x DCCW, Grot Riggers, Plates and Skorcha 110pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts


Heavy Support:
Killa Kans x3 - Rokkits - 150
Killa Kans x3 - Rokkits - 150
Killa Kans x3 - Rokkits - 150
450

Total
1950

Will the 9 BS3 Rokkits be enough ranged, strong firepower? I wonder if using Lootas instead of Burna Boyz would make the list more versatile, since Lootas can move and shoot now. Still, at 1850 points and above, I'm afraid the enemy will have a lot of firepower to eat through those walkers.

Would the formation of a Dread/Kan mob change in 6th Edition? I mean, the Boyz don't have to walk behind the wall anymore. Would they go out front, like:

Boyz--------Boyz--------Boyz--------Boyz
Kans---Dread---Kans---Dread---Kans
Burnas/Lootas+Big Mek-----Big Mek+Burnas/Lootas

Zog Off wrote:

matphat wrote:Here is my first attempt at validating Ork Dredbash. Best as I can tell, anything short of 2k is not really gonna cut it.

Tell me what you think.

HQ:
Big Mek w/kff 85 pts
Big Mek w/kff 85 pts
170

Elite:
15x Burnas w/ 3 Meks - 225
15x Burnas w/ 3 Meks - 225
450

Troops
1 Deff Dread w/3x DCCW, Grot Riggers, Plates and Skorcha 110pts
1 Deff Dread w/3x DCCW, Grot Riggers, Plates and Skorcha 110pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts
20x Shoota Boyz /w 1 Big Shoota - Nob w/ PK, BP 165pts


Heavy Support:
Killa Kans x3 - Rokkits - 150
Killa Kans x3 - Rokkits - 150
Killa Kans x3 - Rokkits - 150
450

Total
1950

Will the 9 BS3 Rokkits be enough ranged, strong firepower? I wonder if using Lootas instead of Burna Boyz would make the list more versatile, since Lootas can move and shoot now. Still, at 1850 points and above, I'm afraid the enemy will have a lot of firepower to eat through those walkers.

Would the formation of a Dread/Kan mob change in 6th Edition? I mean, the Boyz don't have to walk behind the wall anymore. Would they go out front, like:

Boyz--------Boyz--------Boyz--------Boyz
Kans---Dread---Kans---Dread---Kans
Burnas/Lootas+Big Mek-----Big Mek+Burnas/Lootas

I was thinking something like that, yes, but the burnas need to be out front to get the Wall of Death I believe. I think it would be more like, Bubble wrap the Dreds in burnas, and boyz more or less on flanks?

I'd say put the boyz up front to soak up shooting wounds then the burnas behind them. Or have boyz in front lootas with mek boyz in the rear then all you have to worry about is units deepstriking behind you as you move up, and blast weapons of course lol

Something to keep in mind all with the " the sky is falling!" crying about deff rollas is, that you can now shoot at BS1 with both passengers and wagon after a ram. And if it gets assaulted, you can shoot overwatch at the assaulting unit.

You simply have to change the way you use them.

- After ramming a vehicle your tank bustaz/shoota boyz can simply open up fire on anything that plops out.
- Tank-shock a burna weagon in the middle of your enemies - he will either assault it and suffer a lot of d3 hits or be scrambling away to get out of "you're toast!"-range.
- Battlewagons are less likely to be stunned/immobilized/wrecked now before they have reached their goal. Skipping armor plates and grot riggers is much less of a risk now. On the other hand, multiple big shootaz (up to three without MFA) and/or Klaw+Boarding plank are much more useful now.
Did you know that a zooming flier is destroyed when it can't move? Now go chasing planes with that grabbin' klaw
- Lootaz in battlewagons now make sense.
- Meks can repair hull points, while battlewagons are unlikely to lose four hull points at once.

Um, unless I've missed something, people are whinning about deffrollas not having an AP. They never did. They never ignored armour saves. Ever

Jidmah wrote:Something to keep in mind all with the " the sky is falling!" crying about deff rollas is, that you can now shoot at BS1 with both passengers and wagon after a ram. And if it gets assaulted, you can shoot overwatch at the assaulting unit.

You simply have to change the way you use them.

- After ramming a vehicle your tank bustaz/shoota boyz can simply open up fire on anything that plops out.
- Tank-shock a burna weagon in the middle of your enemies - he will either assault it and suffer a lot of d3 hits or be scrambling away to get out of "you're toast!"-range.
- Battlewagons are less likely to be stunned/immobilized/wrecked now before they have reached their goal. Skipping armor plates and grot riggers is much less of a risk now. On the other hand, multiple big shootaz (up to three without MFA) and/or Klaw+Boarding plank are much more useful now.
Did you know that a zooming flier is destroyed when it can't move? Now go chasing planes with that grabbin' klaw
- Lootaz in battlewagons now make sense.
- Meks can repair hull points, while battlewagons are unlikely to lose four hull points at once.

This

Orks just got a huge lift in some areas, even if others got a bit of a nerf.

As an old-school ork player who likes to roll across the battlefield firing all guns wildly from my vehicles, 6th is a blessing..

They keep using the word cinematic to describe 6th, and i can't thing of many theings more cinematically cool than snatching a low-flying fighterjet from the sky with a grabbing claw and smashing it into the ground, or planting a wrecking ball in the pilot's lap..

And then theirs the ground-to-air squigs

*edit- damn computer gadgetry..*

Fire the Graplin' Grabin' Klaw!

Ascalam wrote:This

Orks just got a huge lift in some areas, even if others got a bit of a nerf.

As an old-school ork player who likes to roll across the battlefield firing all guns wildly from my vehicles, 6th is a blessing..

They keep using the word cinematic to describe 6th, and i can't thing of many theings more cinematically cool than snatching a low-flying fighterjet from the sky with a grabbing claw and smashing it into the ground, or planting a wrecking ball in the pilot's lap..

And then theirs the ground-to-air squigs

*edit- damn computer gadgetry..*

It's quite impossible to hit a flier with the wrecking ball though, due to difference in height :<

The klaw, on the other hand...

I'm just going to model a wrekin' ball launcher and a Graplin' Grabin' Klaw... And hope GW don't ruin the moment

Okay, so having the rulebooks FINALLY arrive in our country on tuesday...

Challenges can INDEED be avoided. They can only be accepted if your character is engaged. Since your Nob will not have consolidated into combat due to being initiative 1, it's very likely that you will be able to keep him out, then move him in and get the attacks. If the opponent assaults the boyz from an angle which forces the nob to be engaged, that's another matter, though...

(also, having avoided this forum until I got the rulebook, likely this is oooold news).

Anyway, biggest issue for me (past the 5+ KFF) is that Gets Hot affects vehicles now - by potentially inflicted a glancing hit. Poor news for my Grot Tanks with KMB's, and Kans with KMB's, but I'm aware that it's only an 8% chance of happening. Still, will have to deal with it! At least they should have access to saves that can attempt to negate it.

Past that, I'm enjoying looking into having a Mega Armour Big Mek joining a unit of Lootas, as well as looking to get Aegis Defence lines for grots and Lootas.

Loss of Gazzy and Snikrot hasn't phased me, since I never used them (for better or worse). Again, I'll just have to learn by fire, using my current list and seeing how the game has changed. I've got a good grip on the rules, having read through the entire rulebook and transcribed all the new information, but things must be experienced first hand.

Deffrolla is still fantastic now because it forces your opponent to stay 13" away, while you move and shoot 13" snap firing 4 heavy shootas and either 18 shootas and two more heavy shootas (20 shoota boys) or 12 Deffgunz and 3 big shootas (12 lootas and 3 meks).
The loota version is what I like to call a Dakkafort.

I had a game with a Dakkafort, I added a Big Mek with a KFF and the thing survived the whole game 4 hull points and 4 mek tools made the thing unkillable.

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:According to the copy of the Dakkajet rules available through iTunes Fighta Ace does work against flyers. I don't have a copy to verify but that's what I've heard.

You are correct, but one would assume that the term "fighter ace" implies that he is good at shooting down planes. Those rules were written before 6th ed was released (before flyers existed) and I would assume that they will be updated to include flyers in due course. So far GW has only release "quick fix" FAQs which are badly done to say the least, give it time and it will get fixed.

I keep reading the challenging rules as it going into an engaged UNIT, the nob itself has to accept it or lose its attacks. He himself doesn't have to be engaged.

I admit I could be missing something but that is my interpatation for far.

Hello all, loving orks in 6th.... as I loved them in 5th. Played a few games in 6th now and loving how much more killy it is, also liking the added randomness..... I pulled off an 11.5 inch assault and have rarely been more chuffed

One thing that I was a bit peeved about was the dakkajet. The first few turns it did amazingly but then, as my opponents numbers dwindled, it spent the last few turns just zooming about, not facing anyone because of the 90 degree thing. It was by that point completly useless as it can't contest (as no vehicles can).

Obviously now that I know this I will work it into the jets tactics but thinking a few turns ahead and the fact that my opponents unit can, and will, move is a bit annoying. Also we must always ensure as well that a move is possble next turn (i.e you can rotate up to 90 and go at least 18" without going off the board!). My question is am I doing this rght?

Cheers,

Dave.

If you have a hard time lining up shots, you could fly off the table on purpose, so you can get a better angle next turn.