Switch Theme:

6th Ed. Ork Changes and Tactics. (Updated 9/7 with Ork FAQ 1.3)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:According to the copy of the Dakkajet rules available through iTunes Fighta Ace does work against flyers. I don't have a copy to verify but that's what I've heard.



Thats true it says

"When shooting at Jetbikes or vehicles with the skimmer type, a DAKKAjet with Fighta Ace upgrade is treated as being ballistic skill 3"
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Warbiker





Fliers in Zoom mode are not skimmers, only if they Hover (and not all can); in which case they become Fast Skimmers.

Deffwing Nutta.

Codex: Bad Moons 
   
Made in gb
Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter



Somerset, UK

Jidmah: If you have a hard time lining up shots, you could fly off the table on purpose, so you can get a better angle next turn


Ace, I thought if you went off the board edge you were destroyed.... I take it from this I was wrong, instead you just go into reserves? I will have to re-read the flyers bit I suppose

This certainly makes jet tactics easier.

Thank you Jidmah,

Dave.
   
Made in gb
Brainy Zoanthrope






Did someone say weight of fire was important in 6th?

try

Big Mek (35)
15 lootas (225)
15 lootas (225)
15 burnas (225)
3 Kannons (60)
3 Kannons (60)
3 Kannons (60)
27 shoota boys 3 boys with big shootas (195)
27 shoota boys 3 boys with big shootas (195)
30 shoota boys (180)
30 shoota boys (180)
30 shoota boys (180)
30 shoota boys (180)

2000 points - one force org, [drop 1 elite 1 kannons and 2 troups and it is under 1500 - redistribute to smaller units if you wish]

Of course there are a huge number of issues with this list, but it is the extreme examples that get people thinking. No powerclaws, but nothing to challenge either.
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Warbiker





I'd drop the burnas, they don't have the range and really need a transport to work properly. Then you can get a KFF for the BM and throw in another with a SAG.

Deffwing Nutta.

Codex: Bad Moons 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






RFHolloway wrote:Did someone say weight of fire was important in 6th?

try

Spoiler:
Big Mek (35)
15 lootas (225)
15 lootas (225)
15 burnas (225)
3 Kannons (60)
3 Kannons (60)
3 Kannons (60)
27 shoota boys 3 boys with big shootas (195)
27 shoota boys 3 boys with big shootas (195)
30 shoota boys (180)
30 shoota boys (180)
30 shoota boys (180)
30 shoota boys (180)


2000 points - one force org, [drop 1 elite 1 kannons and 2 troups and it is under 1500 - redistribute to smaller units if you wish]

Of course there are a huge number of issues with this list, but it is the extreme examples that get people thinking. No powerclaws, but nothing to challenge either.


You could always just put barebone nobz with BP and big shootaz in your mobz. If you don't care about your close combat ability, you can simply refuse all challenges, while still getting the boss pole and precision shots out of them. You also lack the ability to handle vehicles with that list, nine kannons are not going to be enough.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ammo runts, all the t7 crew are important upgrades.
Then get the full of lootas.

Even then I would make room to bring dakkajets.
Also how do you plan to take out land raiders?
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver






Cambridge, UK

WaaaghGruzkull wrote:I keep reading the challenging rules as it going into an engaged UNIT, the nob itself has to accept it or lose its attacks. He himself doesn't have to be engaged.

I admit I could be missing something but that is my interpatation for far.


Page 64
"Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot accept challenges."


2000pts in refurbishment

> with allies 1850pts finished
You can see the finished army here

Also started a tutorial in how to paint blood angels 
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Tampa, FL

Let me re-post my breakdown of how Nobs can dodge challenges in the first round of combat that was a few pages back:

AresX8 wrote:
Keep the Nob. Don't stick him in the front, have him more in the middle of the mob, and he can't accept the challenge.

Here's the breakdown of how he can't accept the challenge or be picked out by Precision Strikes:

1. "Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-phase, before any blows are struck." pg. 64. This means this is before the initiative step pile-in moves.

2. "A model is engaged in combat, and must fight if:

- During its initiative step, it is in base contact with one or more enemy models.
- During its initiative step, it is within 2" of a friendly model in base contact with one or more enemy models in the same combat." pg 23.

2. "Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot issue challenges." pg. 64. This means your Nob can't issue a challenge either, because of clause 1.

3. "Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot accept challenges." pg. 64. This means Nobs that are not engaged as per clause 2 cannot accept challenges. Cannot accept challenges != refusing challenges.

4. "Models make their attacks when their Initiative step is reached.... Note that certain situations, abilities and weapons [Emphasis mine] can modify a model's Initiative." pg. 23. This means that a Nob piles in at I1 because of his PK and also attacks at I1 because of the PK.

5. "Wounds from Precision Strikes are allocated against an engaged model (or models) of your choice in the unit he is attacking, rather than following the normal rounds for Wound allocation." pg. 63. This means that a Nob cannot be picked out in combat because he is not engaged as per clause 2.

I find it amazing how not a lot of people are reading the minute details of the rules.

EDIT: Note that of course this really only works in the first round of combat. Once the second round starts, the Nob can of course be challenged or be hit by Precision Strikes since he should be clearly engaged.

 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Boulder, CO

I'm going to clear my head on this Nob accepting challenges thing, because I don't get why it's so complicated. Feedback is welcome.

The scenario is:
You don't want to accept a challenge because your Nob is up against a character that the Nob probably wont beat, who may kill the Nob in the process? Right?

All this talk of working the rules to be out of "engagement" to try and avoid the challenge is moot.

The reason is, if your Nob is challenged, you can just refuse it.
Sure, you don't get to attack that round, but if you went to all the trouble to try and maneuver out of engagement, just to deny a powerful character the ability to challenge your Nob, then you don't get to attack that round anyway.

Why go to all the hassle, wrestling with Nob placement, when the outcome is exactly the same?

Your Nob will either be out of engagement (and not attacking), or denying the challenge (And not attacking).

Am I wrong?
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver






Cambridge, UK

matphat wrote:I'm going to clear my head on this Nob accepting challenges thing, because I don't get why it's so complicated. Feedback is welcome.

The scenario is:
You don't want to accept a challenge because your Nob is up against a character that the Nob probably wont beat, who may kill the Nob in the process? Right?


Don't accept the challenge if the challenger as the ability to ID your nob

matphat wrote:
All this talk of working the rules to be out of "engagement" to try and avoid the challenge is moot.

The reason is, if your Nob is challenged, you can just refuse it.
Sure, you don't get to attack that round, but if you went to all the trouble to try and maneuver out of engagement, just to deny a powerful character the ability to challenge your Nob, then you don't get to attack that round anyway.

Why go to all the hassle, wrestling with Nob placement, when the outcome is exactly the same?

Your Nob will either be out of engagement (and not attacking), or denying the challenge (And not attacking).

Am I wrong?


Yes you are. the idea is to take advantage of the different initiative pile ins. So he cannot be challenged but then manages to fight back at initiative step by being within 2inches of an engaged model

2000pts in refurbishment

> with allies 1850pts finished
You can see the finished army here

Also started a tutorial in how to paint blood angels 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Well, the difference is that, if you are out of engagement when the challenge is issues, you can't accept the challenge, but then when you pile in at Initiative step 1, you could become engaged and hence, would be able to attack the unit rather than the other character. But, I agree. That seems like a crapload of work, just to keep your nob out of a challenge. Very un-orky. Just accept the challenge like a true Nob, or run away like a weedy git!!!'

Bah, beat me to it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/12 15:48:46


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

matphat wrote:I'm going to clear my head on this Nob accepting challenges thing, because I don't get why it's so complicated. Feedback is welcome.

The scenario is:
You don't want to accept a challenge because your Nob is up against a character that the Nob probably wont beat, who may kill the Nob in the process? Right?

All this talk of working the rules to be out of "engagement" to try and avoid the challenge is moot.

The reason is, if your Nob is challenged, you can just refuse it.
Sure, you don't get to attack that round, but if you went to all the trouble to try and maneuver out of engagement, just to deny a powerful character the ability to challenge your Nob, then you don't get to attack that round anyway.

Why go to all the hassle, wrestling with Nob placement, when the outcome is exactly the same?

Your Nob will either be out of engagement (and not attacking), or denying the challenge (And not attacking).
ninja'ed by madmax...

Am I wrong?


I think the original angst is that people thought when challenge, you'd must choose any character in your unit. At first glance... that's kinda bad for a PK toting Nob in a boyz squad, cause he's hitting last...

However, with careful positioning (not too difficult)... you can place your nob so that it's not engaged on the charge (that is, not in btb or within 2" of your btb engaged models). That way, he CANT accept any challenge. So, when Init step 1 comes, you pile-in 3" and might be able to get your klaws in...

Remember, you can pre-measue, so it shouldn't be that hard (just may take a while to get used to it).

Right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/12 15:55:44


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver






Cambridge, UK

Madmax1 wrote: That seems like a crapload of work, just to keep your nob out of a challenge. Very un-orky. Just accept the challenge like a true Nob, or run away like a weedy git!!!'


when you consider that you normally have spent 51pts in a unit it is totally worth and may be the difference between destroying your opponent unit or not when dealing with pesky marines

2000pts in refurbishment

> with allies 1850pts finished
You can see the finished army here

Also started a tutorial in how to paint blood angels 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Bacms wrote:
Madmax1 wrote: That seems like a crapload of work, just to keep your nob out of a challenge. Very un-orky. Just accept the challenge like a true Nob, or run away like a weedy git!!!'


when you consider that you normally have spent 51pts in a unit it is totally worth and may be the difference between destroying your opponent unit or not when dealing with pesky marines

I honestly think it won't be that difficult to manage...

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Boulder, CO

Ahhh, Ok. My bad then. I was wondering waht the fuss was about.
So to clarify, this is more or less to get the first round charge in, let the Nob get some PK attacks before the next round of engagement where he wont be able to deny they challenge based on positioning. So, with some careful positioning, you get to use your Nob for the initial charge, but after that it's refuse, or accept.

Sorry I was confused.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Mushkilla wrote:You are correct, but one would assume that the term "fighter ace" implies that he is good at shooting down planes. Those rules were written before 6th ed was released (before flyers existed) and I would assume that they will be updated to include flyers in due course. So far GW has only release "quick fix" FAQs which are badly done to say the least, give it time and it will get fixed.


What I'm saying is that it already is fixed, at least for people willing to shell out $6 and who also own an iPad.
   
Made in us
Squishy Oil Squig



Langhorne, PA

I think it is worth noting that we can no longer claim multiple objectives with he same unit. Using a grot conga line to claim multiple objectives has won me a few games. Given the relatively larger sizes of ork units compared to most other races, I view this is a greater disadvantage for orks (albeit a minor one)
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Can you use one unit to contest [multiple] objectives?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/12 18:38:43


 
   
Made in za
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





WaaaghGruzkull wrote:I keep reading the challenging rules as it going into an engaged UNIT, the nob itself has to accept it or lose its attacks. He himself doesn't have to be engaged.

I admit I could be missing something but that is my interpatation for far.


To quote the rulebook:

Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) can not accept challenges.

And furthermore...
If you refuse, your opponent gets to nominate one of your characters from those who could have accepted. The chosen model cannot strike blows at all this turn

As such, if the Nob is not engaged, he can not accept. If he could not accept, he is not able to be targeted by the penalty for refusing a challenge.

Since challenges are issued at the start of the assault, the Nob can then wait until his initiative step to move in, and make his attacks.

Edit: Erp, ninja'd. Several times
I REALLY need to double check if the page I'm reading is the last one or not >_>

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/07/12 18:50:16


 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Boulder, CO

Hey all, played some Kans last night. Wanted to report on my findings.

Essentially, the list looked like this, playing against BA.

HQ: 2xBigmek+KFF
Elite: 2x 12 Burnas+3Meks
Troops: Boyz
Heavy: Kans


This list ran "ok". The Burnas and meks stuck to the Kans to get repair rolls as we moved forward. These groups received a lot of fire as we moved up. There was some serious attempts to bring em down. Lots of fire directed at the near useless Burna units, to get at the Meks. Blasts were especially bad, as they remove models from the blast. So, back armor on the Kans, Meks getting hit and taken out. Characters sniping Meks, etc.
Got some repairs on the Kans, but with only 2 hull points, they go down faster than they can be repaired. About half my Kans made it to the gun line, and then the grenades started. Kans survived, but mostly by luck.
I'm currently giving the Kans with Meks tactic a C+, as they are not nearly as survivable as they once were, and take a crap ton of extra units to keep them going.
On the plus side, they did soak up a ton of fire that kept my boyz free to shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and then finally assault.
Boyz won the game. The Kans just intimidated my opponent in to ignoring them long enough to get in range.
As an aside, Footslogging in the new deployment types is horrible. You walk FOREVER before you are in range.
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Warbiker





matphat wrote:Blasts were especially bad, as they remove models from the blast

Noooo.

Only Barrage weapons remove models from the centre of the blast outwards. Other blast weapons remove from the front like other fire.

Deffwing Nutta.

Codex: Bad Moons 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Now to move on to a totally different topic, what are everyone's thoughts on the KFF Big Mek. In 5th, it was pretty much mandatory if you were running a Kan Wall or a BW spam type army. But now that the cover save has been nerfed to 5+ for vehicles, do think it's still crucial? I've been considering running a BW/Biker Nob list that has a Biker Boss and a Mega-Armour Boss in a trukk (with some Meganobz) as my HQs. Obviously, if I'm under 2000 pts, there's no room for a KFF Big Mek as well. So, what do you think? Do you think that it will work without a KFF? How important is the KFF now?
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker




New York

I made a phone call to GW, on the subject of some Ork vehicle upgrades (boarding plank, grabbin' klaw, and wreckin' ball) and their effects on flyers.

Boarding Plank - Can't be used against flyers. (Rather Obvious)

Wreckin' Ball - Can't be used against them, because flyers can't be assaulted.

Grabbin' Klaw - The guy wasn't sure. Basically, he said that they say no to it having an effect on flyers when they play, but that "forge your own narrative" could let you do it.
   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




Madmax1 wrote:Now to move on to a totally different topic, what are everyone's thoughts on the KFF Big Mek. In 5th, it was pretty much mandatory if you were running a Kan Wall or a BW spam type army. But now that the cover save has been nerfed to 5+ for vehicles, do think it's still crucial? I've been considering running a BW/Biker Nob list that has a Biker Boss and a Mega-Armour Boss in a trukk (with some Meganobz) as my HQs. Obviously, if I'm under 2000 pts, there's no room for a KFF Big Mek as well. So, what do you think? Do you think that it will work without a KFF? How important is the KFF now?


I'll still take one a 5+ cover save is still better than our 6+ armor save that almost everything ignores. and Any save made against a vehicle or kan usually makes up for the points spent on the KFF.

 
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Warbiker





Madmax1 wrote:KFF

I still think it's a great piece of kit. The fact that it's not a no brainer can only be a good thing for the health of the game as a whole.

Footsloggers still get the same save they did before, unless you were running them through terrain.
Arguably they were too strong with regards to vehicles in 5th, a 4+ save against ranged attacks is an eye-watering level of defence, doubling the survivability. 5+ is much more reasonable.

Deffwing Nutta.

Codex: Bad Moons 
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







Well, htat sucks about the wrekin' ball. but the grabin' klaw says all vehicles (it could effect skimmers)
so unless it get's updated, then you can. As you don't assault the flyer to use it.
And don't listen to the GW guy, they haven't done anything about it so you can do it.
I mean, in 5th you could use them aganst skimmers, even if those said skimmers where planes
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




St. George, UT

I don't see anything at the moment that will stop the grabbin claw from working against a flyer with the exception that it might be hard to get it within 2" for it to actually work.

As for the Big Mek. I loves me a KKF but, since I've added two dakkajets to my list, he got changed out for a warp head wierd boy just for the chance to get another Waagh! or two.

I've got to keep the warboss only because having the nob bikers be scoring is just too useful.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/12 21:28:43


See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot




Colorado

Regarding the Grabbin' Klaw upgrade against flyers, if they work against flyers is that it would kill the vehicle outright unless it had a hover mode. This is due to the flyer rule that states that any flyer that cannot move at least 18" in one turn crashes.
Having said that though, I don't think they should be useable because it is a "modified" close combat attack in my mind.

18000 , 5000 , 2000 , 1000 , 1000 , ???  
   
Made in gb
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker



Scotland

So.. we came across something rather fun and Orky to do with fliers.

Fliers automatically crash if they move less than 18", so you can move it anywhere 1"-17" and finish the move over an enemy unit, to automatically crash on top of them. Seems legit for orks

evilsponge wrote:
Lots of Little Napoleons in this thread. Half the people in here should never have authority over anyone
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: