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chaplaingrabthar wrote:What if I modelled my IG 60mm 2-wound heavy weapon bases as doughnuts? Would that drag the thread back on topic?

If your heavy weapons troopers ate ENOUGH doughnuts, that would explain the need for a 60mm base! Genius!

Maybe the 1st wound is from all the delicious glaze.

There's a bakery near me that makes donuts. And they're gooder than the Yankee Krispy Kreeme that we had up here.

And my sister lives down the block from a bakery that makes the best cheesecake in the whole wide world.

Fantastic!

please stop talkin abour freaking do stuff, this is a rummour thread I see the admins closing it soon if this keeps up

So be it, useful content ended about 20 pages ago.

Let's be honest, it ended on the first page. It's basically been me whining since then.

BYE

BLAH BLAH BLAH!

JABBA JABBA JABBA!

YIDDLE YIDDLE YIDDLE!

Hey look, I just contributed just as much as 3/4 of the people here.

Rofl.



Also when it comes to fatpills, nothing beats homemade Apple Fritters.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Let's be honest, it ended on the first page. It's basically been me whining since then.

BYE

Ok, I may have to sig this just to prove that you actually said it!

gorgon wrote:Krispy Kremes are overrated.

Try a German fastnacht or Polish paczki sometime.

Agreed - light and fluffy, but no real substance.

Of course, I especially like crullers, so who am I to talk?

I'm no Pole, but after many years in the Detroit area, I do love those "punch-key" donuts! One of girls in the office would bring in those nice donuts that come out special every Fat Tuesday.
____

foil7102 wrote:My grandfather is Polish, and there is a reason why you only eat paczki one time a year...... Two times a year will cause instant morbid obesity, combined by diabetes, and insulin shock, and a massive coronary. Worth it though!

Pfft. I used to special order a box of 4 just for myself. Yum!

Of course, over here in SoCal, we don't have a sizable Polish community, so I have to "make do" with ordinary jelly donuts. So far, it's been one-a-day since Tuesday.

moonfire wrote:please stop talkin abour freaking do stuff, this is a rummour thread I see the admins closing it soon if this keeps up

Meh.

We just need more rumors and confirmations from GW.

I hear the evil eye of Yarrick is being ramped up.

I think Yarrick getting T4 is good enough. Nothing was more heartbreaking that seeing a T3 Yarrick, or 'Yarrick-Lite' as I called him, in the last Codex.

Hopefully he'll get Eternal Warrior and will become the toughest human in the game, as he should be.

BYE

The rumour I'm really hoping for is super elite stormtroopers. One vetran srg. and four special weapons.

Take that armour, my super elite stormtroopers shall deepstrike and take out a can opener on you!!

If only my hopes and dreams did come true. Until then, I shall keep it as a house rule.

@s.j. - If it's a vet & 4 Specials, Hellguns can be S1 AP- for all they'll matter.

Ok, after getting bored with this thread after the first few pages, I jumped to the last two and I just have one question:

Where did this thread go wrong????

When I have more time perhaps I read the other 200 posts that I didn't bother reading and get to the bottom of this.

Edit: In an attempt to stay more on topic...

Yay go IG!!!

Axyl wrote:Ok, after getting bored with this thread after the first few pages, I jumped to the last two and I just have one question:

Where did this thread go wrong????

When I have more time perhaps I read the other 200 posts that I didn't bother reading and get to the bottom of this.

Edit: In an attempt to stay more on topic...

Yay go IG!!!

Wrong? This thread is so right, in many ways! It's got drama, conflict, lots of guns, and doughknots.

@Janthkin you forgot to mention HBMC whining!

and while doughnuts are great, there's no pie!!

enough rumors, let's have the damn book.

Jesus... HMBC's even taking credit for my whining now. I'm going to report him to the mods...

BYE

Damn!!
sorry oh great and forgiving one!! it's just all these roumrs!

This thread sucks everyone has drug it into oblivion.

Ok, so I'd like to discuss something relatively serious:

Astropath is pretty much confirmed to give +1 to friendly reserves coming in. So stuff comes in sooner. That's not always good.

Fleet Officers is pretty much confirmed to give them -1 to their stuff coming in. Which is not always good.

If I'm going first, I get a turn of shooting up their crap. They rush forward (cant deep strike/outflank). My turn, stuff is more likely to come in. Their stuff is likely to be in transports. So I shoot it, not so effective, it almost certainly popped smoke. Still, if drop meltas and such still exist in the new codex, it's more firepower. But turning a 4+ each to a 3+ to each means my crap will be on the board earlier than it is now. Maybe on their turn when they branch out from my 25 yard line, some of their stuff will go backward to kill the droppers, maybe some forward. At that point it turns into the messy close quarter battles that I dont much like as a Guard player. Particularly cause it means my ordinance templates cant shoot (friendlies too close), scatter onto my stuff, etc.

Mmm. Ugh. The ability to make stuff come in sooner/later. It changes the dynamic of things a great deal. Why have I heard you guys yammering about stupid nonsensical bickery crap like heavy weapons basing... and nobody has had any interesting things to say about something relevant?

The locals talk a lot about how the dakka forums are the place to hear intelligent discussion about the game. If this thread is any indicator... it sounds like you guys would rather bicker about some piddling-assed minor issue (and feed the person vs person drama) than discuss something that is potentially much more significant.

Hollismason wrote:This thread sucks everyone has drug it into oblivion.

Thanks. For. That.

Really restoring credibility there.

So, any guesses on points costs for the new Hellhound & Russ variants?

Ivan wrote:The locals talk a lot about how the dakka forums are the place to hear intelligent discussion about the game. If this thread is any indicator... it sounds like you guys would rather bicker about some piddling-assed minor issue (and feed the person vs person drama) than discuss something that is potentially much more significant.

I'm reporting you to the mods for implying that a discussion about donuts isn't important.



Actually what you said is something we could look at. The +1/-1 thing is interesting not just because of the stackability, but because there's a rule that actually hurts your opponent. I can't see reserves coming on later as anything but a downside most of the time, but I'm just amazed that they'd include a rule that affects your opponent's abilities.

Also all this depends on how the rules are worded:

1. If you take a Fleet Officer you may add +1 to any reserve rolls you make.
2. If you take a Fleet Officer you add +1 to any reserve rolls you make.

Those two are the same except for one word, and they change its tactical use completely. It could also say:

3. If you take a Fleet Officer you may add +1 to any single reserve roll per turn.
4. If you take a Fleet Officer you add +1 to any single reserve roll per turn.

Again, different in the way they work, and more limited in application than the first two. I suspect the Artillery Officer or whatever the one that gives the enemy -1 is, will have the same sort of structure.

What do others think? Do we like the idea of a single model on one side affecting all the dice rolls on the other?

BYE

See, now we are getting somewhere... unlike the last 3 pages of this thread.

I'm of a cynical persuasion myself, HBMC. And often inclined to agree with you (for instance I happen to agree that 15 points of SM plasma does not equal 15 points of IG plasma... but lets not get off there again).

I fully agree that "may" makes ALL the difference. And I'm keeping in mind that (presumably) "may" makes a difference in point values for a given option.

That said, how much is +1 to my reserves rolls worth? How much is it worth with "may"?

How much is -1 to theirs worth? How much with the "may" option?

You said (or at least implied) reserves coming on later is always a bad thing. I disagree. Part of that is based on the current IG codex's ability to give any particular unit deep strike at +0 points. I'd argue that a deep striking unit (and even more so for multiples) on the last turn is VERY valuable. Because 2/3 of games are objective based. And many is the time I've had a non-deviating drop pod plop itself down within 3" of my objective at the bottom of turn 5. Or have some Eldar/Tau/etc fast vehicle go zip over within 3" to contest. Sure, only a 1/3 chance the game ends at that point... but it's often enough to make me snarl and go smoke a cigarette and contemplate the very messy death of those who say "KP is balanced cause the other 2/3 of missions IG has so many scoring units". And IG doesnt have good delivery systems for last turn contesting/controlling... yet. Maybe the Valk will solve that. Maybe it wont. The cynic in me, like you, wants to belive that GW has no idea WTF theyre doing insofar as designing for game balance. But I've lost a LOT of games, through no fault of my gameplay, since 5th came out. And I still hold out hope that they have some idea what theyre doing.

And I think fiddling with the reserves rolls is FAR more important to discuss than heavy weapons becoming 2 wound models. And yes, I understand the implications of HW teams being 2 wound models. But I dont understand why bigger issues havent been heavily discussed before now, particularly by Guard-expert forum members like yourself.

So really, what are your thoughts?

And so sorry to be rude... but I'm going to speak frankly. Please leave your ego battle with "other nameless members on here" out of the discussion. The community is greater than that. And I've seen lots of silly bs about your ego battle and not nearly enough about real issues.

Respectfully,
-John

I agree about the late deep striking too. Especially with fragile guardsmen that might not be able to sit on an objective for 6 turns and live, or risk hoofing it out in the open to get to an objective. It's really great when you can land your platoon right where it needs to be anywhere on the table. And if all went well you thoroughly shelled the whole area beforehand so there will be less resistance when you land

I'm betting though it's gonna be the end of the drop troops as we know it. Maybe there will be a special char that will allow for some units to have grav chutes, but I doubt it'll be for everything. Instead, they're prolly gonna push valkyrie transporting instead so they can sell more new models. Which might not be a bad thing, I really like the idea of airborne guard, and if I were starting the army now that would definitely be my theme. but i have too much invested in my old gunline & armor army so I may as well stick with what works.

Ivan wrote:
Fleet Officers is pretty much confirmed to give them -1 to their stuff coming in. Which is not always good.

That caught my eye as well, I wasn't sure if it had been discussed in this thread or not (didn't feel like sorting through the 700+ posts.)

It certainly changes the game mechanics a good deal - but that's not entirely unprecedented. (ie: Demon deployment or lack thereof, Venerable Dreads:"No, I don't like that roll - try again.")

As far as utility: I suppose it all boils down to point cost. If I knew I was going up against demons or deathwing I would take it every time.

Just for the Record I love the new additions that I have seen. From my own guard experience I will definitely miss doctrines. I really loved how
you could assign certain groups to infiltrate or be jungle fighters or whatever. some of them weren't great like the universal equipment stuff.

I'm with HBMC that I don't like using special characters to give a specific benefit to the army I would rather that just be a characteristic of the
force because I like to make up my own stuff.

I would really like to discuss how we will be using some fo the New Versions of the Ogryns and Storm Troopers.

Also what to do with veterans now. They were a mainstay of my army now they seem like they will be quite different.

Different ways to use the Valkyries and Vendettas? Its our first time having a skimmer anything I believe since the RT era.

Probably need more info for most of these discussions.

Just throwing some fodder out there.

Ivan wrote:And I think fiddling with the reserves rolls is FAR more important to discuss than heavy weapons becoming 2 wound models. And yes, I understand the implications of HW teams being 2 wound models. But I dont understand why bigger issues havent been heavily discussed before now, particularly by Guard-expert forum members like yourself.

OK, Now its time to poke the Bear

Seriously though after reading all of the pages about the "possible" move to 2-wound HWTs it astounds me that no one brought up it being a fair trade for being able to hide heavies in back without giving a coversave to your opponent because of the new (RUMORED)orders rules. I still get the feeling that they will also have some(RUMOR) "sandbag" rule that improves thier coversave. Probalbly 1 but maybe 2 major improvements with no price increase. I'll deal with the inconveinence if I'm not giving a cover save to my enemy.

As to the Tanks. Look at the SkyRay for the Tau. It can be the SkyRay, Railhead, Ionhead, or just a Devilfish. I think that is how they are going to be packaged, so no big problem there. Then enough variation to keep the most crazed modeler busy until 6th ed and almost enough ordinance to cover every square inch of the battle field in a single battle.

Stormtroops, Math says 2dead SMs before rapid fire and at those ranges cover shouldn't be to much of an issue.

These along with everything else makes for some very enjoyable games against the Emperors Hammer. Can't wait to see if it matches the hype.

Ivan wrote:See, now we are getting somewhere... unlike the last 3 pages of this thread.

Nothin' wrong with a bit of fun now and then. All work and no donuts makes Jack a dull boy.

Ivan wrote:I'm of a cynical persuasion myself, HBMC. And often inclined to agree with you (for instance I happen to agree that 15 points of SM plasma does not equal 15 points of IG plasma... but lets not get off there again).

Good to hear. The world would be far to bleak without cynicism to fuel us.

Ivan wrote:That said, how much is +1 to my reserves rolls worth? How much is it worth with "may"?

I can see these units being 30-50 points a piece - with or without the 'may' option.

Ivan wrote:I'd argue that a deep striking unit (and even more so for multiples) on the last turn is VERY valuable.

So do I, and that's what's good about the Fleet Command guy, but at the same time, its' hard to fail a reserve roll late game, and now on turn 5 they show up automatically anyway. As a result I see these two characters as having very specific uses that would be tied directly to your list rather than everyone bringing them as 'just in case' upgrades. The +1 to your Reserve Rolls is going to show up ina tank heavy or Valk heavy army, to ensure that tanks get on the table/Valks show up when you want them to. For a gunline... not so much. We're losing Drop Troops, as you've probably already guessed, so the actual rule this guy would have been perfect for won't be around for us to make use of it.

Oh well!

Ivan wrote:And I think fiddling with the reserves rolls is FAR more important to discuss than heavy weapons becoming 2 wound models. And yes, I understand the implications of HW teams being 2 wound models. But I dont understand why bigger issues havent been heavily discussed before now, particularly by Guard-expert forum members like yourself.

Hey, come May we're all back to square one. In fact, unless I go out of my way to learn that Codex, I won't be any better than anyone else. I can still offer general Guard advice, and for the most part I don't see many of Guard's core concepts going out the window, but when that new 'Dex hits my status as a Guard Guru goes BYE BYE.

Ivan wrote:And so sorry to be rude... but I'm going to speak frankly. Please leave your ego battle with "other nameless members on here" out of the discussion. The community is greater than that. And I've seen lots of silly bs about your ego battle and not nearly enough about real issues.

Hey he hasn't shown up much in this thread, so I haven't really said anything.

Ivan wrote:Respectfully,
-John

*gasp* Your name's John too? But your user name is Ivan. See now I'm confused.



BYE