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necrongod wrote:

Ktulhut wrote:Sooo... The thread was Too Long, and you Didn't Read it?

\

25 pages? yup

How about next time you just pick 2 random pages, hell even 2 random posts, and use your immense brainpower to deduct that we have been in fact talking about the new DE for 25 pages.

Tailgunner wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:No, there's a pilot on the model, hardwired into the thing. I process the model as a DE Dreadnought, for what it represents. Instead of being piloted by Eldar spirits, it's piloted by a slave who's been grafted to the model. Similar to SMs, but not as armored because the pilot is outside and fresh meat, rather than ancient, half-dead and entombed.

You say that with such authority, but it's bollocks. I've built and painted 2 of these models, and there's no pilot. Lots of twisty bits and pieces, some skull-like bits and a few trophies, but no pilot.

You guys are just blind. People is used to say DD's wrong, but -at least with this- he is right. Pics from Dakkaite's own gallery:









Don't you see the helmet, torso and arms on rear top of the main body? With the helmet attached to the "tail"? That IS a slave. Fugly as hell, according to the older line style. But a pilot slave after all.

Gwar! wrote:But Light Year is a unit of Distance...

You've never heard of the Millennium Falcon?…It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs!

Tek wrote:

Gwar! wrote:But Light Year is a unit of Distance...

You've never heard of the Millennium Falcon?…It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs!

No, should I have? :3

Telos Pilot

Havik110 wrote:Except there is nothing in any dex since the last eldar dex with toughness above 6, not even the GREAT UNCLEAN ONE which should be tougher than ANYTHING on the field (specifically to allow S3 weapons to be able to wound everything)...the last few things with T7+ are the talos, Wraith lord, and the 2 ctan...you are going to see the t go down to 6 (if it stays a MC) and like Mephy it may get a whole bunch of wounds...get ready for wraith guard to keep T6 and be a single wound and WLord T6 with 6 wounds....

And that's a shame, don't'cha think? Maybe back in early 3rd, when the Wraithlord was a dominating force with T8, was that sort of toughness level 'unfair', but nower days? It's quite bad that Toughness above 6 aren't used. We've got AV14, so why not T10? They have rough parallels between the two - AV14 can be killed in one shot, but S7 does nothing to it, with T10 you have to eat through its wounds, but S7 can hurt it.

All Dreads and Walkers should have Toughness values (Sentinel T4(5), War Walker T4(5), Killer Kan T5, Marine/Ork/Chaos Dread T8, etc.). Makes things so much cleaner.

Havik110 wrote:

Except there is nothing in any dex since the last eldar dex with toughness above 6, not even the GREAT UNCLEAN ONE which should be tougher than ANYTHING on the field (specifically to allow S3 weapons to be able to wound everything)...the last few things with T7+ are the talos, Wraith lord, and the 2 ctan...you are going to see the t go down to 6 (if it stays a MC) and like Mephy it may get a whole bunch of wounds...get ready for wraith guard to keep T6 and be a single wound and WLord T6 with 6 wounds....

Yea, this.

A lot of things used to be far greater toughness than what they are now. Great Unclean One and Carnifex are the two prime examples that come to mind; both used to be completely immune to small arms fire (t8 if I remember right for both). And the Carnifex had a Terminator sv. /end nostalgia Only the Wraithlord kept that, and at one point I think it was a vehicle...

Frankly I think the loss of anything with T7 or greater has to do with the darned streamlining that was so prevelant in 3rd and 4th. The probably thought process is that most small arms have such a small chance to hurt them with their T and their save that most wouldn't bother. IMO I think bumping some of those monsters up to at least t7 (or higher) would help to alleviate some of the mech issues we have right now. But GW seems to over-estimate the effectiveness of many MCs compared to what can actually harm them.

necrongod wrote:does anyone get the games workshop newsletter????????? they just showed a whole bunch of models and THEY ARE AWESOME! the wyches actually look cool! AAAAAAAAAAA! its awesome!!

@Luna: No one double crosses Lord Zedd and LIVES!

Tailgunner wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:No, there's a pilot on the model, hardwired into the thing. I process the model as a DE Dreadnought, for what it represents. Instead of being piloted by Eldar spirits, it's piloted by a slave who's been grafted to the model. Similar to SMs, but not as armored because the pilot is outside and fresh meat, rather than ancient, half-dead and entombed.

You say that with such authority, but it's bollocks. I've built and painted 2 of these models, and there's no pilot. Lots of twisty bits and pieces, some skull-like bits and a few trophies, but no pilot.

Maybe you don't know what you're painting?

There's a dude with a full-head helmet wired into the thing, with his arms are pulled back and wired into the thing. That's a pilot.

I can see where you're coming from since it definitely looks like there's a dude strapped in there, but I don't know if I would go so far as to truly call that thing a pilot. At least from my perspective, I'd be more inclined to say that it's some kind of fuel source for the Talos, maybe some kind of engine that feeds off of the pain given off by the victim. So once that victim finally dies, they just strap in a new one.

That'd be my guess, at least. Granted, I've no idea about the fluff behind the Talos, so it's pretty much just me taking a shot in the dark.

It's a torture device, so he's probably an insane victim alleviating his own pain by inflicting it on others.

Maybe MCs should be above T6.. For all the whining and hissy fits about wraithlord T8 thats STILL only armor 11/12 and most good dreadnoughts nowadays are armor 13. I do realize MCs can fight with 1 wound left but on average it takes 3 penetrating hits to kill a vehicle which *gasp* is the same amount of wounds a wraithlord has! Most weapons you wound it with will ignore its armor, so thats fairly irrelevant

Wow 2 attacks and some weapons that cost a ton... Its not a coincidence that carnifexes suck now that they lost their ability to be T7 and 5W (also they cost too much)

the talos is powered by the pain and death convulsions of the slave attached to it, who looks like he has had his skin peeled off.

I don't think the talos needs toughness 7+ honestly. If they can be bought cheap and in squads

DiscoVader wrote:I don't know if I would go so far as to truly call that thing a pilot.

This exactly.
That thing wired into the Talos is never mentioned specifically in any DE fluff. But it has no skin, and it's arms are cranked backward with the head shoved down... Doesn't look comfortable.
Raiders have pilots. The Talos has torture victims. That thing might have something to do with the Talos' actions, but I doubt that it's 'in control' of them.

Erasoketa wrote:
Don't you see the helmet, torso and arms on rear top of the main body? With the helmet attached to the "tail"? That IS a slave. Fugly as hell, according to the older line style. But a pilot slave after all.

I'm looking really hard. I see something that might be called a helmet, but nothing that I'd call a torso or arms.

In either case, it's not a pilot. If anything, it is some that has been captured and is having pain inflicted upon it. It's twisting in agony is providing the energy it uses to pursue further victims. By all the fluff ever written on the Talos that I have ever seen, there is no pilot.

But all that is beside the point. I don't see any reason that they would reduce the toughness from 7 to 6, or reduce the armor save from 3+ to 4+, unless they either add rules to compensate for the weakening of the unit or reduce its cost.

Andarus wrote:

Tailgunner wrote:

You say that with such authority, but it's bollocks. I've built and painted 2 of these models, and there's no pilot. Lots of twisty bits and pieces, some skull-like bits and a few trophies, but no pilot.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1251819_99110112012_DETalosmain_873x627.jpg

Always assumed the red thing at the back that looks like cables is actually some dude strapped in.

This is correct. Just under the tail section. I wouldn't say it's a pilot however as the Talos, by current fluff, operates under 'torture power'. So that poor soul is a slave of some sort. Though I think it would also be wrong to imply that the Talos is vulnerable because of that figure when it could just entomb yet another slave from the field of battle.

I always saw the Talos as a Wraithlord done with Dark Eldar Power. Lacking Soulstones to power the core, they use the insane pain induction impulses. But a Redone Talos would be good. I currently use A Tomb Spyder with a Tomb Scorpion set of claws as my Talos. I like it better.

I hope the Talos gets a new special rule like its old "skimmer" rule that will confuse people and require FAQs for THREE editions!

@H.B.M.C
Except you can one shot AV14 but you would need to successfully wound T10 three times... Not a parallel, quite different actually....

Make the wraith lord T10 but with 1 wound, then maybe you have a good point...

Walkers with T value is just stupid.... Hey a vehicle with legs, lets just change the whole vehicle paradigm for them because it travels differently....

sexiest_hero wrote:The picture of the male witch with the purple pony tail and female with the short cropped blue hair are some of the best work I've ever seen. Lilith looks like a real female and not a 12 year olds fantasy. Hell all the women look real. I can't belive it. the females look dangerous, realistic and good. the breast look normal, and they look fit enough to run 5 miles killing the whole way. the males look non pansy for some pointy eared freaks.

GW has outdone anything ever!

I thought Lelith was a male on his way to a leather party when I first saw her. Oversize proportions can be good thing when it comes to miniatures.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=13000014a

If I'm understanding this right, Incubi are plastics?

EDIT: Their metal, my bad. I guess the plastic references were to the warriors/wyches.

They are metal, but I'm really liking that they have made the arms and heads separate to allow simple conversions using the plastics . This is good news for those people that don't like the horned heads

It doesn't say if they did the same thing for the Archon... I hope they did. the conversion pictures from GD looks like they did. *fingers crossed*

I think they did considering they mentioned all that for the first time in relation to the archon (or that was my understanding anyway, the piece seems pretty poorly written to me).

The article is pretty good but the "high elf tournament army" above it is hilarious.. 2 dragons and 2 units of spearmen? really? this isnt 7th ed!

DiscoVader wrote:I can see where you're coming from since it definitely looks like there's a dude strapped in there, but I don't know if I would go so far as to truly call that thing a pilot. At least from my perspective, I'd be more inclined to say that it's some kind of fuel source for the Talos, maybe some kind of engine that feeds off of the pain given off by the victim. So once that victim finally dies, they just strap in a new one.

blaktoof wrote:the talos is powered by the pain and death convulsions of the slave attached to it, who looks like he has had his skin peeled off.

OK, let's pretend that the Talos is pain-powered as the fuel source. If the fuel source goes kaput, then the Talos has no power, so it drops like a stone and doesn't move.

Either way, it's the living weak point.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

DiscoVader wrote:I can see where you're coming from since it definitely looks like there's a dude strapped in there, but I don't know if I would go so far as to truly call that thing a pilot. At least from my perspective, I'd be more inclined to say that it's some kind of fuel source for the Talos, maybe some kind of engine that feeds off of the pain given off by the victim. So once that victim finally dies, they just strap in a new one.

blaktoof wrote:the talos is powered by the pain and death convulsions of the slave attached to it, who looks like he has had his skin peeled off.

OK, let's pretend that the Talos is pain-powered as the fuel source. If the fuel source goes kaput, then the Talos has no power, so it drops like a stone and doesn't move.

Either way, it's the living weak point.

And still no reason to reduce its toughness, as that supposed "weak point" has always existed.

Saldiven wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

DiscoVader wrote:I can see where you're coming from since it definitely looks like there's a dude strapped in there, but I don't know if I would go so far as to truly call that thing a pilot. At least from my perspective, I'd be more inclined to say that it's some kind of fuel source for the Talos, maybe some kind of engine that feeds off of the pain given off by the victim. So once that victim finally dies, they just strap in a new one.

blaktoof wrote:the talos is powered by the pain and death convulsions of the slave attached to it, who looks like he has had his skin peeled off.

OK, let's pretend that the Talos is pain-powered as the fuel source. If the fuel source goes kaput, then the Talos has no power, so it drops like a stone and doesn't move.

Either way, it's the living weak point.

And still no reason to reduce its toughness, as that supposed "weak point" has always existed.

I've always been OK with the Talos at T6 or T7.

My issue was with the suggestion that it should be Wraithlord tough (T8 Sv3+), and that obvious weak point says it should be clearly less tough.

(Of course, a proper Necron Dread should be T9 Sv2+).

JohnHwangDD wrote:I've always been OK with the Talos at T6 or T7.

My issue was with the suggestion that it should be Wraithlord tough (T8 Sv3+), and that obvious weak point says it should be clearly less tough.

(Of course, a proper Necron Dread should be T9 Sv2+).

Ah, I understand. I don't think the Talos should be Wraithlord tough, either. Honestly, I don't think the Wraithlord should be T8, but that's neither here nor there.

Wraithlord's been so heavily-nerfed since 3E, at this point, T8 is all it's got left.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Wraithlord's been so heavily-nerfed since 3E, at this point, T8 is all it's got left.

Good point. I personally think they should have left everything else and lowered the T by a point, but they didn't ask me.