New rumours on Chaos Legions (latest on pages 30, 32 and 34; compilation in first post)

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**kronk**

tarnish wrote:
kronk wrote: I disagree, marmaduke. If someone has a proven track record of being right, then the rumor has some strength and it belongs in the News and Rumors section.

If the person is wrong very often, then they are just wishlisting. Wistlisting goes in the 40k General discussion.

Then for the love of god either move the thread or get on with the topic! Theres nothing left to say about the source, so move the feth on.

You'll see in the second part of that post, I did. You should take your own advice as you are adding nothing with that post.

Sephyr wrote:If true, plastic plagues are a -huge- step toward a truly viable Legion-based codex.

Yes! Plastic kits for Plague Marines, Thousand Sons, and Emperor's Children, ala the kits for the Khorne Berzerkers would be great!

As would more shoulder pads for the chaos gods for Make-your-own chapters.

**Manchu**

I've been thinking about this a lot, too. Ghosty21's "rumors" merit discussion I think more because they are "news," i.e., what the hardcore fans who may/may not "have an in" think is going to happen. Sometimes news is just what people are paying attention to -- see pop music, for example.

**Samus_aran115**

Ghost 21 was spot on about the Necrons REALLY early, and if I remember the GK rumours correctly, he predicted a number of things in that book as well. I wouldn't automatically defend his word, but I think hearing what he has to say is worth the time. Worst comes to worst, he's wrong, and we move on. Sorry if I'm late to the ball.

**marmaduke**

kronk wrote:.

How would the bikes stack with Marks or Icons of nurgle? Would they be T5(6)? Would they be T4(6)? Are we talking true plague marines or just icons of nurgle?

Edit: Calvary/Cavalry.

personally i am hoping for T4(6) and then give them FNP that would make it worth taking the bike and not make them to tough

that and just drop the blight grenades when they get on the bike cause they are too busy steering. that or make it that they cause any unit within X" to suffer a -1Ld

gosh i really hope that this is somewhat true

**wyomingfox**

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Conversely, I don't appreciate rumor dudes like Ghost and Stickmonkey at all.

Not all of Stick Monkeys Rumors were complete bunk. Nor IMO should what he says simply be completely discreditied out of hand. Should Stick Monkey be ranked in the same catagory as Harry...nope. But he shouldn't be ranked in the same catagory as "Bob_from_Marketing".

His rumors dating back to October 2010:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:his Necron rumors were completely fase (and he said Yakface's rumors were totally off base).

Ghost's necrons rumors were about 50/50...not 100% false. And he never said Yak's rumors were totally off base. Infact, what he said is posted below:

Spoiler:

Ghost21 wrote:
Yakface wrote:1) No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise. A shift in fluff is now that all of the higher up necrons are intelligent while the lower level ones are still basically automatons. I guess that's roughly the same as it used to be, but apparently there is more emphasis in the sentience of the higher Necrons now (hence the named Lords).

Yup thats nailed that one

Ghost agreed with Yak

Ghost21 wrote:
Yakface wrote:2) C'Tan are still in the codex...sort of. They have been moved to the Elites section and are now a single unit choice, but with variable upgrade powers you can take.

no honestly there not otherwise youll see khorne in the csm dex next

wont coment on rules

At this point, Yak hasn't elaborated that what you will get in the elite slot is Shards not Ctan. So here, Ghost disagrees, and Ghost is correct. The Ctan are indeed killed off and only thier Shards which are less powerful constructs remain.

Ghost21 wrote:
Yakface wrote:6) Destroyers now count as jump infantry and there is a new Fast Attack Jetbike unit called Tomb Blades.

not unles they get a masive redsesign and as the sprues are done n dusted im not sure thats acurate

Ghost disagrees Destroyers becoming jump infantry and ends up being wrong

Ghost21 wrote:
Yakface wrote:7) Immortals are now a Troops choice. Pariahs are gone. Flayed Ones are Elites.

only with a charecter

Ghost states that Immortals only become troops via unlocking with a SC. Ghost ends up being wrong.

Ghost21 wrote:
Yakface wrote:8) There are indeed 6 named characters (although I have no more info on them). There is also a Necron Overlord and a bodyguard unit called Crypteks. Crypteks can be split off before the game to lead units of Necrons, very similar to Wolf Guard in the Space Wolves codex. Crypteks can take a bunch of different technology upgrades, so there is kind of a way now to have personalized squad leaders in a Necron army.

thats really odd that was called pariahs.... so im inclined to agree, there was quite a few charecters though

Here he agrees

Ghost21 wrote:
Yakface wrote:10) There are six new vehicles in the codex (including the two transports mentioned above). Two of which seem to be based around this old Jes Goodwin design: http://storage.canalblog.com/29/28/731795/53057637.jpg

....all ill say is sky chariot ... but transports.....not sure since they can teleport everywhere they need any, but nothing in ive read says they get so many

Ghost incorrectly disagrees with the number of vehicles but is the first to mention a flying chariot...which turned out being correct ala the Battle Barge

Ghost21 wrote:
yakface wrote:12) In the Elites section there is a big new walker. It has a heat ray that that is either a melta or flamer depending on what you want to do. Any unit hit by this vehicle is marked (as in: laser targeted), which means that all other necrons count as being twin-linked for shooting at the marked enemy unit that turn.

he was heavy support last time i saw it

noyt trying to say your wrong or anything or come across a arogant, its just in the version i have seen

He agreed there was a walker but incorrectly diagreed with the FOC slot.

Moreover, there are 15 additional points that Yakface made in his original post which Ghost doesn't even comment on.

**candy.man**

marmaduke wrote:Personally I am hoping for T4(6) and then give them FNP that would make it worth taking the bike and not make them to tough.

That and just drop the blight grenades when they get on the bike cause they are too busy steering. That or make it that they cause any unit within X" to suffer a -1Ld.

Gosh I really hope that this is somewhat true

The feeling I get from the new codex is that the ability to mark units will be somewhat limited and the counterbalance to this is a greater selection of cult units instead (e.g. berserkers, berserker cavalry, gladiators).

Personally I reckon Plague Marine bikers will only be possible via upgrading a Chaos retinue with MoN and bikes. Whilst this will probably leave you with FNP T4(6) biker, the counter balance is that the unit will be horribly expensive (unless the CSM codex is costed using the GK point cost formula).

**timetowaste85**

kronk wrote:
marmaduke wrote:i think that even if someone is wrong or right it doesnt matter! it is about the discussion and the fact that people still can have hope for a new codex for a codex that is starting to show its age.

okay ranting done

I disagree, marmaduke. If someone has a proven track record of being right, then the rumor has some strength and it belongs in the News and Rumors section.

If the person is wrong very often, then they are just wishlisting. Wistlisting goes in the 40k General discussion.

marmaduke wrote:so anyone have any ideas about how bezerkers on juggernauts will work cavalry or something similar?

and what are the chances of nurgle bikers, cause a friend, mentioned them and i was wondering if there was any chance?

If they put them on juggernaughts, I'd assume that they'd follow the cavalry rules.

How would the bikes stack with Marks or Icons of nurgle? Would they be T5(6)? Would they be T4(6)? Are we talking true plague marines or just icons of nurgle?

Edit: Calvary/Cavalry.

Well, let's hold on a second-if they put Berzerkers on Juggernauts, I think it'll play more like bloodcrushers than TWC. Meaning they move like infantry, but will give a bonus to stats like TWC and 'crushers-T5, not T4(5). Infantry riding juggernauts already exists-and they'll use the stats for current chaos crusher-riders, not space wolf cav. Juggernauts are heavily armored daemonic beasts-they ALSO exist in the current chaos codex-guess what, no "beast" or "cavalry" rules. Kronk, that last comment was not aimed at you, it was just a general statement, no worries-you just gave me the opening to speak up on the subject.

I expect we'll see if the following stats, if Ghost is accurate: WS5, S5, T5, W2, A3, infantry, 60mm base, furious charge
(I know it's a coin toss, with a 3 sided coin and 2 sides are tails, but I'll still give him a shot)

**GentlemanGuy**

Ok i just want to know. If we might be getting zeker knight thingies (fed up of the innuendo jokes tbh) do you guys think we'll get the others disc mounted tzeentch marines, slaaneshi steed riders and plaguies on giant slugs? I'm asking because yes i would like to see zerker knight thingies but we cant have them all surely can we and im gonna say i dont think we will see zerkers on rampaging rhino daemons tbh

**wyomingfox**

MasterSlowPoke wrote:most correct thing he's ever hinted at can be summed up with the word "boats", and even that was with enough uncertainty to make him "safe" in case Dreadfleet was something different.

He said a bit more and was a bit more detailed than "boats"

and he stated it in this order

Spoiler:

OK, I'm done now

**Kroothawk**

The discussion between Aaron Dembski-Bowden and ghost21 is getting interesting

First ghost's reply to the Bolter&Chainsword comment:

ghost21 wrote:I'm not exactly sure what to say to that one... regardless.

If he is who he says he is, why take such a hard ass attitude?

He could friendly say "nope", or "I dont think so" or in fact I invite him to come here and talk it over in PM. I mentioned the red angel and little horus (it could have been some guys conversion but he was fairly confident he would make it ).

And if he says who he says he is, we've actually met at those IP meetings.

oh and one last thing writers are told who dies n who doesn't not the other way around

Aaron wrote:
if he is who he says he is why take such a hard ass attitude?

I'm not taking any attitude, really. I'm only pointing out the rumours I know are either false, or exceedingly unlikely to bear fruit.

Bear in mind how anyone in the company hears X or hears Y, from sources A, B and C. I'm not - and will never - share what I have or haven't heard about codex or army book development. Just making that clear. No one in my position would. I don't even hint whether I know anything. I say nothing about it. I like my career and have no interest in losing it.

However, purely as a member of the Heresy team and someone who suckles directly from the core lore sources, some of those rumours are either patently false, or ring hollow with how the IP seems to be presented / was explained to several of us / has been mentioned as being presented in the future.

and if he says who he says he is, we've actually met at those ip meetings

I am. And no, we haven't.

oh and one last thing writers are told who dies n who doesn't not the other way around

No, they're not.

Those lies aren't making it any easier to believe you with the other stuff, mate.

(...)
This is what I said on B&C in my original comments on the subject. Before anything gets out of hand, I'd like to make it clear that I was specifically talking about a couple of points, most notably HH characters in the codex:

"For the record, the Red Angel showing up would surprise me just as much as the separated Renegade/Legion codices, since he's showing up in the Heresy in ways even we've not fully decided yet (we only recently decided who he was), and the IP department are fully aware of it, having been at* the meetings."

(*or privy to)

I'm not making any comment on the other stuff. If I happened to be friends with people at head office and interacted with them professionally and/or personally (which I am, and do) I'd still say nothing. Which is the same thing I'd say if I knew nothing at all. I like my job, hence why I have no interest in risking it.

Purely as an HH writer, I'd be - shall we say - stunned to see certain characters show up in the next Chaos codex, especially when we've only just decided who they are, and their fates aren't decided. That just doesn't strike me as likely.

ghost21 wrote:
I am. And no, we haven't.

I'm afraid we have, unfortunatley. I'll be sure to announce myself to you next time :-/ oh great one, you might not know who i am but i certainly have to read what you "write"

No, they're not.

so you can kill of Horus? or anybody? really? ill be sure to mention it

Those lies aren't making it any easier to believe you with the other stuff, mate.

I'm not your mate, and if you say so

Aaron wrote:
I'm afraid we have, unfortunatley, ill be sure to announce myself to you next time :-/ oh great one, you might not know who i am but i certainly have to read what you "write"

I'll ignore the vague insult, because, really, there's no need to get into a mud-flinging fest. I'm sorry you take some bizarre offence at someone saying "That seems unlikely" in regards to a couple of your rumours, but there we go.

So you're saying we've genuinely been in the same meetings? The ones specifically related to the examples I'm using in debunking your rumours? So... you're in Horus Heresy meetings? And the meetings for unannounced projects with a handful of people in the room? That would make you someone I know well. Disregarding the fact that all of those people can spell and type, several of them are either my close friends, were at my wedding, and/or are people I have regular contact with.

Don't pretend to be one of them. That's creepy, and a lie. A creepy lie, in fact.

so you can kill of Horus? or anybody? really? ill be sure to mention it

You either know what I meant and are being deliberately obtuse, or are so desperate to defend yourself against being backed into a corner that you're relying on a nonsensical soundbite.

You said, specifically, that "oh and one last thing writers are told who dies n who doesn't not the other way around."

We're not. You're wrong. It's really that simple. Saying "LOL HORUS" doesn't change that. Don't be so ridiculous.

I understand that people aren't usually in the position to correct you over this stuff (until the codices come out), but is there really any need to be so weird and precious about it? Think what you're getting so snotty about: someone actually in the know said "That seems unlikely" to a couple of your many points. I mean, is that really so hard to deal with? Being this weird is your solution? I
Theocracity wrote:feel like an onlooker in a rap battle, and have the overwhelming urge to yell "OH SNAP" for no reason.

It doesn't need to be so confrontational, really. All I've said is that "it's unlikely (from my understanding of the fluff and the way IP department discusses the lore) that they'd divide the Legions and Renegades into two codices like that" and "I sincerely doubt they'll use new Horus Heresy characters in the codex", then explained why.

I'm not commenting on anything else. I'm not dishing out rumours or denying anything I may or may not have heard, because I like my career. I'm not even definitely saying they won't do those things. Just that it seems ball-achingly unlikely, because, frankly, it does.

I'm sort of confused as to why that's so hard to stomach, or why it requires ghost21 to lie about knowing me, and being in meetings where he wasn't actually present at all.

EDIT: Either way, I've said all I need to say. I've not got a mountain of interest in lingering to partake in some bizarre back-and-forth over nothing.

**aka_mythos**

bhsman wrote:I don't mean this maliciously, but would you be willing to provide examples of this, aka_mythos?

For example:

ghost21 wrote:As I've said, it will probably be the first or second 6th ed book, 6th ed is slated for july I think (but also I have bb then... so I dunno), so anything up to 4 months after that...

harry wrote:I do think CSM are the first sixth edition book but not sure if they come just before or just after 6th edition.

**Just Dave**

That does look like ADB's writing style too, so I definitely believe it's him.
Nice reporting Kroot; cheers!

**tarnish**

Okay that was substantial Kroothawk... and makes for a better discussion then the vague conflict posted earlier. thanks for that.

Aaron has my vote, he just sounds more credible. Either way, this settles it for me...

**CpatTom**

Either way, creepy e-stalker making up rumors is a pretty interesting read. Maybe he's the janitor, or some such. Guy/girl hiding in the background, changing the trashcan, or cleaning the windows.

Creepy.
Haha, fun to read though.

**bhsman**

EDIT: Woah, not only have the mods conveniently removed that entire exchange but also the earlier links to ghost21's mocking of Blood of Kittens' solid Necron rumors or his promise to go streaking if Sisters of Battle received a White Dwarf codex. Thanks for saving that for us, Kroot.

EDIT: That's the real Aaron, too. He cross-posts fan-art of the Soul Hunter characters from B&C on his blog all the time, among other things.

aka_mythos wrote:
bhsman wrote:I don't mean this maliciously, but would you be willing to provide examples of this, aka_mythos?

For example:

ghost21 wrote:As I've said, it will probably be the first or second 6th ed book, 6th ed is slated for july I think (but also I have bb then... so I dunno), so anything up to 4 months after that...

harry wrote:I do think CSM are the first sixth edition book but not sure if they come just before or just after 6th edition.

Fair enough, though this all comes after Big Red(?) had made a thread about the 6th Ed. starter containing CSM. Not to say this is just another nail in Ghost's coffin, but that feels more like an educated guess.

**SickSix**

Lol, that's awesome seeing A D-B lay the smackdown on ghost21. "OH SNAP!"

**candy.man**

Honestly, the above the altercation between ADB and Ghost has greatly lowered my opinion of the both of them.

**wyomingfox**

bhsman wrote:EDIT: That's the real Aaron, too. He cross-posts fan-art of the Soul Hunter characters from B&C on his blog all the time, among other things.

Thanks, good to know

bhsman wrote:
aka_mythos wrote:For example:

ghost21 wrote:As I've said, it will probably be the first or second 6th ed book, 6th ed is slated for july I think (but also I have bb then... so I dunno), so anything up to 4 months after that...

harry wrote:I do think CSM are the first sixth edition book but not sure if they come just before or just after 6th edition.

Fair enough, though this all comes after Big Red(?) had made a thread about the 6th Ed. starter containing CSM. Not to say this is just another nail in Ghost's coffin, but that feels more like an educated guess.

Big Red's July's thread appears to be a compilation of other Warseer rumors that date back to June...namely Ghost21 and BramGaunt when they were discussing the Legions codex. For the Record, BramGuant was the first to coin "Chaos Legions". Ghost went on to state in that same thread that the focus would be on the Legions and Cult Space Marines. He said there would a second Chaos codex called Renegades and more recently he stated that Renegades would be more like LATD with some CSM for seasoning. Doesn't seam like Aaron read Ghost's later posts about Renegades *shrug*

I could also point to where Ghost stated that Necrons were due out in August and Sisters due out in November. BramGuant in that same thread confirmed that he had heard the same as well. Both ended up being wrong...and Bramguant is generally considered to be reliable

.

Anyways, Chaos Legions is due out in less than a year, as well as the 6th edition starter set (which Ghost21 predicts is BT vs CSM and Deamons) so we will know how accurate this go around is soon enough

.

**bhsman**

It wasn't from a compilation thread about Chaos Legions AFAIR, someone reputable just made a thread about the potential new starter set. I guess we'll see, though.

**wyomingfox**

Cool. do you have a link? Thanks!

.

**candy.man**

I’ve been recently thinking about the discussion regarding the accuracy/preferences of rumour mongers such as Ghost/Harry etc and (as corny as it sounds) I get the feeling that people are forgetting to take the rumours “with a grain of salt”.

From what I gather, a lot of the rumours we receive usually come from things that are usually not set in stone and are subject to change (especially early rumours). Summer of fliers personally comes to mind as a good example of this. The only 100% accurate rumours I’ve seen usually come from things that are on the cusp of being released (with the rumour itself usually being confirmed via a pick of an early white dwarf pick from Europe).

Most of the rumours are usually correct in the loosest sense anyway, with usually dates or specifics being incorrect.

**KarlPedder**

Yeah well I think the "Summer of Fliers" is the perfect example did it happen? No

Could it have been a possibility at one time? Yes

Could it simply have been a "rumourmonger's" misinterpretation of every army getting a flyer in their codex? Yes

Has every Codex since the rumour 1st popped up gotten a "Flyer" unit? Yes....

**Bonde**

So basically the vibe I get from all this is that Ghost21 is just a small kid posting random ideas from his home computer, just to get attention. I would probably be able to get 1/3 of my own (readable) ideas correct aswell, but that doesn't prove anything. He might have been at the GW HQ at some point, sweeping the floor and emptying trashcans, and may have seen some non-publicised miniatures, but that doesn't make his rumors much more credible than random guesses.
The fact that ADB even bothers to kill him off as a rumour monger just proves that Ghost21 has had way too much influence on the internet Warhammer community by guessing randomly.

ON TOPIC:
I at least hope that Night Lords and Alfa Legion get some cool new bikers with some new special rules. I doubt that every other legion, like Death Guard, will get bikers, as the point with a legions book would be to differentiate the legions from each other in playstyle and overall feel.

**reds8n**

I've got to say a lot of these chaos rumours sound fun but I'm a bit unsure as to how much of what we're hearing is brainstorming or ideas as opposed to what we might actually get.

Would like the Khorne bezerker on juggernauts though.

Only thing that has me pondering is I was fairly sure that Phil Kelly was writing/has written the chaos codex, with Messrs. Ward ( ably assisted no doubt by Mr. Troke) were mainly going to be working on other, precious, projects.

I would be very surprised if we suddenly saw characters from the 31M, from a series that isn't finished yet, suddenly introduced into a 41M era codex. true on occassion the studio does seem to trample over some of what Bl have produced.

But I've yet to see them totally ignore or render invalid a major series that is ongoing. Especially a New York Times best selling series that's generating great reviews and good sales.

I would suggest that this quote from elsewhere might be pertinent

It's regarding Mr. Swallows ( most enjoyable) "Hammer and Anvil novel", which features the SoB and the Necrons.

1. How much cooperation did you receive from the GW design studio and from Mat himself ?

I met with Matt Ward several months ago when the new Necron codex was still in the development stage; later I got a pre-release version of the document to refer to while I was writing Hammer & Anvil.

2. Was it always the plan to depict the new Necrons in the novel from the get go? If not, then how did it come about?

Yup. The story for H&A was originally concieved back in 2006, and it was always going to be Sisters vs. Necrons, inspired by a piece of colour text in the previous edition of the Necron codex.

3. How much room were you given for your own interpretation of the characters and units and how much did you have to abide by with the info you were given?

Writing any tie-in work means you have to keep to the lore as closely as possible, but I felt like I had a pretty free hand to develop characters, etc.

4. Given the gaffe in the BA codex with regards to the Blood Swords, and now the cooperation regarding the Necrons, what are your thoughts overall? How do you see this going forwards?

Better communication and collaboration between Black Library writers and the GW dev team can only be a good thing.

**MasterSlowPoke**

What's the problem with the Blood Swords? Never heard of it.

**reds8n**

..err..

IIRC They're listed and featured as a BA successor chapter in some of the BA novels, they're summoned to Baal to take part in the grand conclave and fight there, but Codex : BA says they're not a BA Successor chapter.

**Kroothawk**

The dialogue went on this night:

ghost21 wrote:
I'll ignore the vague insult, because, really, there's no need to get into a mud-flinging fest. I'm sorry you take some bizarre offence at someone saying "That seems unlikely" in regards to a couple of your rumours, but there we go.

I took offense to be called a bold face liar.

So you're saying we've genuinely been in the same meetings? The ones specifically related to the examples I'm using in debunking your rumours? So... you're in Horus Heresy meetings? And the meetings for unannounced projects with a handful of people in the room? That would make you someone I know well. Disregarding the fact that all of those people can spell and type, several of them are either my close friends, were at my wedding, and/or are people I have regular contact with.

Don't pretend to be one of them. That's creepy, and a lie. A creepy lie, in fact.

We have been in the same meetings if you don't believe that then that's really up-to you, the handful meetings no but i get told what happens there.

You either know what I meant and are being deliberately obtuse, or are so desperate to defend yourself against being backed into a corner that you're relying on a nonsensical soundbite.

You said, specifically, that "oh and one last thing writers are told who dies n who doesn't not the other way around."

We're not. You're wrong. It's really that simple. Saying "LOL HORUS" doesn't change that. Don't be so ridiculous.

I'm afraid it does. You basically said you can nuke who you want and you can't, can you ?

I understand that people aren't usually in the position to correct you over this stuff (until the codices come out), but is there really any need to be so weird and precious about it? Think what you're getting so snotty about: someone actually in the know said "That seems unlikely" to a couple of your many points. I mean, is that really so hard to deal with? Being this weird is your solution?

It was your tone. You basically came out with "he's a liar" and you keep saying it, I'll probably get banned and you'll have another petty victory. Kudos

Aaron wrote:If you get banned and blame me, rather than your own words and tone, you may need to rethink what's going down. You're getting overly defensive and putting words in my mouth in a bid to present your argument in stronger terms, such as:

"I'm afraid it does you basically said you can nuke who you want and you cant can you ?"

I clearly said nothing of the kind. Anyone reading both of our posts is unlikely to see me as the one being out of line, here. Or the one inventing things and taking the other out of context.

Incidentally, we haven't been in the same meetings. Please stop that. It's creepy. The meetings and IP discussions I've been in are always very small groups, and I categorically know you're not one of the people present. I understand you need to look like you have credence to the people reading your rumours, but you're bordering on ridiculous now. Instead of insisting that you've been in meetings where one of the people actually there knows you weren't, try saying you were in different meetings instead.

Honestly, dude. Take a step back and take a look at this thread. Someone has said "That seems unlikely" to two out of your countless rumours.

Seriously, man. Calm down. If you're right, won't time tell? If you're wrong, aren't they just rumours, anyway? There's no need to act so freaky.

loveless wrote:Regardless of who has the bigger keyboard between ghost and ADB, I'd rather just move forward with rumor discussion - I don't care if they will or won't be, so long as they may be.

I agree with that, and I've no interest in prolonging an unnecessary (and bizarre) sense of aggression. But please don't phrase it in terms of me vs. him. Context is everything, and all I said was that from my perspective, a couple of his rumours were very unlikely. I'm not interested in a word war with someone I don't know, and I regret asking him to stop lying about being present in the same meetings as me. If I'd known that would trigger more nonsense, I'd have remained silent.

I'll bow out, not least because this is time-consuming, but because there's also no debate while someone dares question Ghost on his stuff. I don't want this thread derailed, any more than you do.

Freak Ona Leash wrote:Well, Mr. Dembski-Bowden only disavowed rumors which don't seem to impact the Codex itself all that much. Little Horus Aximand and the "Red Angel" would only be special characters if they were included anyways, so not exactly world-shattering news for Chaos fans.

Thanks, dude. That's literally it. It shouldn't be so hard to accept, ignore, and move on either way. No need for a war.

Back to lurking.

**Temujin**

The spat between ADB and ghost21 really doesn't do either of them any favours. If ghost21 is a kid making stuff up in his basement then ADB is really better off not getting drawn into anything with him. If ghost21 is for real, not knowing much about the process behind the scenes, you'd have to assume that it is at least conceivable that they've met at some obscure meeting that ADB wouldn't remember, in which case ADB would be going way too far. Of course you really have to lean towards ADB being in the right given that we know he's legit, but I don't want my favourite BL author getting himself in trouble by wading into rumours discussions. We all know how extreme his parent company can be over these matters.

I've often wondered why our handful of flawless rumour deities don't, from time to time, drop into a rumour discussion and uncover a fraud, since they must be able to see through many of them. I think yakface shut down some Necron rumours because he knew them to be false, but it's not something that happens very often. I can only imagine that they are left to their own devices because they provide cover for the real rumour posters to do what they do without exposing themselves too much. Either that or, given how many concepts are produced in the early stages of the design process it's very difficult to say with complete certainty that a rumour poster is not only mistaken but actually making things up. From our outside perspective it's even more difficult to be confident about who is genuine and who is taking us for a ride. My scientific background requires me to keep an open mind until a possible outcome can be completely eliminated, so I'd never charge in and declare that someone is a fraud, even if they are consistently wrong. You could reasonably expect a guy making educated guesses and a guy revealing early stage concepts to have a fairly similar success rate. If you read rumours you have to get comfortable with ambiguities. Watching a posters success rate tells you a lot about their reliability, but it rarely gives you cast iron indications of their integrity.

**His Master's Voice**

Heh, big egos clashing.

Kinda makes me wonder what kind of NDAs GeeDub enforces on people working with them. Most NDAs I've signed made commenting on the validity of rumors (including straight out debunking them) as breach of confidentiality. You'd have to have a pretty big axe to grind to willingly risk your work connections with pointless forum spats.

**gorgon**

candy.man wrote:I’ve been recently thinking about the discussion regarding the accuracy/preferences of rumour mongers such as Ghost/Harry etc and (as corny as it sounds) I get the feeling that people are forgetting to take the rumours “with a grain of salt”.

This has been a long-running issue. IMO, things got particularly insane on Warseer, where the site management spent too much time worrying about "true rumors" vs. "false rumors". And of course the other long-running rumor phenomenon is the poster with like 28 posts to his name harassing a reliable source to where they don't feel like sharing information anymore.

From what I gather, a lot of the rumours we receive usually come from things that are usually not set in stone and are subject to change (especially early rumours). Summer of fliers personally comes to mind as a good example of this. The only 100% accurate rumours I’ve seen usually come from things that are on the cusp of being released (with the rumour itself usually being confirmed via a pick of an early white dwarf pick from Europe).

Most of the rumours are usually correct in the loosest sense anyway, with usually dates or specifics being incorrect.

Yep...we know that concepts kick around the studio for *years*. Heck, I'm completely willing to believe that Hrud and Umbra may have received a little brainstorming attention at some point, and ghost may have been in position to see the sketches, etc. Of course, that doesn't mean a codex will ever happen, but it's still interesting info and I wish people would treat it as such.

Many years ago at a tournament I had a conversation with Jervis, who told me some info about a new WFB army. I now believe that his slightly cryptic comments referred to Ogre Kingdoms, although it's also possible he was referring to something different that we never received. Anyway, my point is that had I posted that rumor, I almost certainly would have gotten thrown into the "bad rumormonger" camp since for years nothing came of it. Even though my "source" was one of their lead designers.