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[quote=Captain Vyper


I took your challenge and popped a pot of the old Dark Angels green, as i expected just as fresh as the day I bought it some 15 years ago so no issues there. But in all honesty if the contention is some one is upset about a company changing a color line ( that MIGHT not match exactly) for an army one is planning on painting 3 or more years later, then there is more issues than just a paint line change, its a bit of an extreme expectation for me. Just for clarity I went into one of the Vallejo suit cases of model color and was saddened to fine more than a few of those bottles had dried out. Was pretty sure those were not supposed to do that. Probably not colors I would ever had used much really but it is what it is, I guess even Vallejo's paint line can't last for ever either.

insaniak wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:That was nowhere near as common as you make it out to be and I'm sure you are quite aware of that.

I'm aware of nothing of the sort. GW have been constantly tweaking their paint range ever since they changed from the Coat D'arms range. Every time they have added colours, some colours have been removed.

I don't blame them at all for doing that. They're a business, they're out to make money at the end of the day and any change will ALWAYS step on someones toes, it'll always annoy someone. Fair enough, I've been a bid annoyed they've removed terracotta (I needed for a Tau sect) but if the cost of producing a paint outweighs the returns, then why bother keeping it?

Besides, there are plenty of other paint companies out there, I've got Citadel, Humbrol and Tamiya paints, some of the same colour but because they paint differently (Especially XF-64 Red Brown to Scorched Earth) I don't mind.

I really don't get the big deal about the paint change, who cares? We all know that most of us will buy the paints regardless, and the rest have already found cheaper/better alternatives, and some just feel the need to whinge anyway

It was indeed sealed, they used to have these pull tab strings around the lids to keep em all fresh and stuff. As for if it might dry out...ok I will humor you. Anything could dry out for a host of reasons. I still have a complete set of pots from that time 15 odd years ago and the only one that is not so good has a cracked lid so it will no longer seal properly. There are a few that are a tad thicker than they may have been, its been so long I can remember. I add an acrylic flow additive to all my paint now and that seems to go a long way to preserving them after I have opened them. Maybe you should try some thing like that in your pots.

Look we are not talking about gold ingots or precious gems here we are talking about paint that's intended design is for us to use it NOW to paint the models we own. I get we take breaks from the hobby and various other reason that may extend the time from start to completion, but if your really making all this fuss over a $4 pot of paint ( or even a few ) that you MUST have to continue a army color scheme 3 plus years down the road I think that's getting a tad silly at this point, dont you think?

More hassle
more time and research.
more money

More reasons to just pay someone to paint my models.

Shrapnelsmile wrote:More hassle
more time and research.
more money

More reasons to just pay someone to paint my models.

And commission painters everywhere are happy

_Tim?

Captain Vyper wrote:It was indeed sealed, they used to have these pull tab strings around the lids to keep em all fresh and stuff. As for if it might dry out...ok I will humor you. Anything could dry out for a host of reasons. I still have a complete set of pots from that time 15 odd years ago and the only one that is not so good has a cracked lid so it will no longer seal properly. There are a few that are a tad thicker than they may have been, its been so long I can remember. I add an acrylic flow additive to all my paint now and that seems to go a long way to preserving them after I have opened them. Maybe you should try some thing like that in your pots.

Look we are not talking about gold ingots or precious gems here we are talking about paint that's intended design is for us to use it NOW to paint the models we own. I get we take breaks from the hobby and various other reason that may extend the time from start to completion, but if your really making all this fuss over a $4 pot of paint ( or even a few ) that you MUST have to continue a army color scheme 3 plus years down the road I think that's getting a tad silly at this point, dont you think?

My army has a LOT of colours. That is because there are different units, Elites, specialists...

I have Liche Purple, Warlock Purple, Mithril Silver, Boltgun Metal, Burnished Gold, Shining Gold, Chainmail, Tin Bitz, Scab Red, Blood Red, Ice Blue, Hawk Turquoise, Enchanted Blue, Ice Blue, Ultramarines Blue, Scorpion Green, and that is at the start of my army.

And as for the additive... is that something I can ise in 59ml bottles of Deco Art paint? Because it is concentrated, and rather a lot of paint to have to treat...

Captain Vyper wrote:I took your challenge and popped a pot of the old Dark Angels green, as i expected just as fresh as the day I bought it some 15 years ago so no issues there.

If it's GW paint, and you bought it 15 years ago, it's the Coat D'Arms paint. Which, yes, lasts really well. I have a couple of my original pots bought back in 1994 that have cracked lids, and even then the paint is still fine.

It's the jars that replaced the Coat D'Arms bottles that are the big problem. I lost count of the number of paints I bought over the years that dried out either before I used them at all or after just a couple of uses.

But in all honesty if the contention is some one is upset about a company changing a color line ( that MIGHT not match exactly) for an army one is planning on painting 3 or more years later, then there is more issues than just a paint line change, its a bit of an extreme expectation for me.

I'm not talking about an army I'm planning on painting in 3 years time. I'm talking about armies that I have now that are going to need revising every time the core rules change, the codex gets redone, or whenever I feel like adding something new to it. It's not unreasonable to want whatever new units I add to match what I already have.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captain Vyper wrote:Look we are not talking about gold ingots or precious gems here we are talking about paint that's intended design is for us to use it NOW to paint the models we own. I get we take breaks from the hobby and various other reason that may extend the time from start to completion, but if your really making all this fuss over a $4 pot of paint ( or even a few ) that you MUST have to continue a army color scheme 3 plus years down the road I think that's getting a tad silly at this point, dont you think?

No, frankly, I don't think it's silly at all. I put a lot of time and effort into my models so that my armies are painted to a standard that I'm happy with putting on the table. So yes, having the paintscheme match across the entire army is somewhat of a big deal. Excuse me for taking some pride in my work.

So here is a crazy question. If the new line is launching in april, how much longer we going to have to wait for the white dwarf leeks?

A long time, I hope!

Anyway... I'm sure that we'll get an 'official' announcement... soon?

Well I can give you a hint how GW will spin that leek

silent25 wrote:Well I can give you a hint how GW will spin that leek

My spell check is awesome.

Insaniak

I am well aware of what paint I have, as I made mention in my earlier post listing the silly amount of paint and companies I have bought over the years. I have picked up a few pots from the Coat D'Arms line over the years as possible back ups when I come across them in the US but that's a bit of a rare happening. The Bolter shell design that replaced those had an issue where the cap and bottle were made from two different types of hard plastic which were simply not capable of creating an air tight seal. No idea how that got past testing. You are not even close to the only one who had that issue, those were replace with the flip top bolter shells that were then replaced with the current type. So they made changes to the bottles to make the product better but god help them if they try to make improvements to the paint that's in the bottle right? You and I are going to have to simple agree to disagree on the rest of this. I hardly think anyone can expect any company of relative size NEVER to change something like a paint line its just not realistic. Change is the only thing you can count on. And its not like the colors will be that different anyways. Your not alone in wanting to have an army you slaved over look the same across the board, we all do its not like the blue is now going to be green or what not, but there very well could be a variation. We will have to wait and see. We all have pride in what we produce in what ever game system or minis we paint, your not alone in that either but as you wish, you may be excused.

Cameron

If your that worried about it , I suggest you stock up on those colors. I am willing to bet at the end of the day, IF this is even going to happen, there probably wont be too much of a difference in the paint. Who knows it just may even be better. Regardless if it does happen it will simply happen and at the end of the day it will be that way and nothing will change it back. We can either accept it or move on to another line of paint doing the exact same thing we are discussing, having to make adaptations to our paint collections. That's the cool thing about choice we are free to make them and live with them. As for that additive I use http://www.liquitex.com/flowaid/ . I love this stuff you do have to be careful not to over do it. I drop 5 or 6 in a fresh pot of paint and then use the 1/20 mix with water as my mixing solution as I paint. You get used to it pretty fast and it makes blending and mix of colors really easy. A bottle of that stuff has lasted me well over 5 years and I use it all the time. If you pick some up let me know what you think after you use it.

Captain Vyper wrote: You are not even close to the only one who had that issue,...

I'm not sure what gave you the impression I was suggesting that I was. It was a very well known and rather commonly grumbled about issue at the time.

So they made changes to the bottles to make the product better but god help them if they try to make improvements to the paint that's in the bottle right?

How does dropping colours from their range make what's in the bottle better...?

I hardly think anyone can expect any company of relative size NEVER to change something like a paint line its just not realistic.

It's worked for the company that owns Coat D'arms for at least the last 20 years.

But I don't expect GW to never change their range. Again, not sure where you're getting that idea from. But this isn't a one-off incident. It's an ongoing thing with GW. In the 20-ish years that GW have sold paint, they've had 3 or 4 major changes to the range (the exact number would depend somewhat on just what you consider a 'major change') and Bob only knows how many minor tweaks where colours are dropped or swapped out for new ones.

If those major changes had resulted in colours staying the same (which, frankly, shouldn't have been that big a deal in a day and age where you can take a shoe into a hardward store and have them mix up paint the exact same shade) the minor changes would be irritating but not necessarily game breakers. But I simply don't have the patience to try to work around a whole new range yet again. Not on the tails of GW's massive efforts over the last year or two to completely alienate large chunks of their customer base.

"Not on the tails of GW's massive efforts over the last year or two to completely alienate large chunks of their customer base. "

Wow. Thats their master plan? Man, why dont they just close up shop? Instead of expanding their product line, making things user friendly, etc. You know, Im going to stop their and not carry on with the insult to your intelligence with a bunch of left handed comments. Do you really, honestly believe that GW's plan is: To Alienate its customer base?, To get rid of all us old timers? Retail companies dont do that my friend. They keep things new and fresh to appeal to the general public, not just you. If they dont, then it dies out if they rely on just your sales.

So, if I understand what some people are getting at, is that GW (i imagine every company you shop with) should be tailoring their products to you and all the gamers/hobbyist that have been doing this for 20+ years? So, what happens when you stop, or your buddy stops? GW, has to recruit new gamers every year to balance out us old timers. Without them the hobby that we love (despite your complaining) would die out. Well, as a RETAIL/MANUFACTURER (which they are) they need to keep things new, fresh, updated. They need to product to compete with other companies. You complain here about mini's and paint, do you go over to car forums and complain about how Toyota keeps coming out with new cars? Or that their car "x" is almost a copy of Ford's car "y"?

Got off the subject a bit. Here's the thing I always say: If you dont like it and your to stubborn to try something new, then quit. Or be like the rest of us, wait until the new stuff comes out, take the time to test/evaulate the new paints yourself before complaining. Ive been playing since '88, been through 3 paint changes, ive changed everytime. Why? Cause I run out of paint as im painting my projects...not caring about 3 years from now, Im not worried about paints drying out. Why? Cause I CLOSE THE FREAKIN LID AFTER USE! oh and I USE MY PAINTS. Really who waits years to paint.

Father Gabe wrote:"Not on the tails of GW's massive efforts over the last year or two to completely alienate large chunks of their customer base. "

Wow. Thats their master plan? Man, why dont they just close up shop?

Coming from an Aussie gamer, I should imagine that is exactly how it feels.

Sorry had edit, due to poor typing skills + sleeping pills

You mean that's not what they're trying to do?

If all this is true, it's probably the best thing GW have done since revamping Fantasy. Re-extending the main paint range whilst maintaining the wash/foundation categories, and then adding even more?

I'm taking this quite comprehensive rumour with a pinch of salt, but I can't wait to see if this is really happening!

Father Gabe wrote: Do you really, honestly believe that GW's plan is: To Alienate its customer base?, To get rid of all us old timers?

No, I don't believe it's their plan. I do, however, believe that their actions over the last few years have left a distinctly sour taste in the mouths of many of their veteran customers, particularly those of us in the southern hemisphere.

So, if I understand what some people are getting at, is that GW (i imagine every company you shop with) should be tailoring their products to you and all the gamers/hobbyist that have been doing this for 20+ years?

No. What I'm saying is that it would be good practice to consider the veterans when these decisions are made.

Without them the hobby that we love (despite your complaining) would die out.

Without GW, the hobby that I love would simply be focused on a different game. Regardless of their attempts to brand the 'GW hobby' GW is not the hobby. GW is one manufacturer.

Well, as a RETAIL/MANUFACTURER (which they are) they need to keep things new, fresh, updated. They need to product to compete with other companies. You complain here about mini's and paint, do you go over to car forums and complain about how Toyota keeps coming out with new cars? Or that their car "x" is almost a copy of Ford's car "y"?

No, I don't complain that car manufacturers keep coming out with new cars. Because those new cars give me choices. I can upgrade to a new car, or I can keep my old car. If I choose to keep the old car, I do so secure in the knowledge that one way or another I will always be able to get parts for that car.

I do complain about GW choosing to drop paints that I am using as core colours on my armies... because that means that those paints are not, in fact, available any more, and I'm forced to either buy up and hope they last, or change to something else and have anything else I paint not match what I have already completed.

ot off the subject a bit. Here's the thing I always say: If you dont like it and your to stubborn to try something new, then quit.

I'm not sure I can even begin to describe just how much this misses the point.

I try new stuff all the time. I tried Devlan Mud when it was released, and decided it was quite possibly the best thing ever sold in a jar since the creation of marshmallow spread. Thanks to GW's decision to give Australian customers fewer options to buy miniatures at an equitable price to most of the rest of the world, I've been buying all sorts of awesome miniatures from new companies that I probably wouldn't have bothered with back before GW got hit by a big ol' dose of terminal stupid.

The new isn't the problem.

...Cause I run out of paint as im painting my projects...not caring about 3 years from now, Im not worried about paints drying out. Why? Cause I CLOSE THE FREAKIN LID AFTER USE! oh and I USE MY PAINTS. Really who waits years to paint.

And again, missing the point.

I do care about 3 years from now. I still play with the same Marine army that I started with back in 1994. When GW dropped their coloured metallics, I had to start over, and that army had nothing new added to it for years until I discovered that you could still buy the Coat D'Arms paints online. So then I added a bunch of stuff to that army. And then when the codex was re-done, I added a bunch more stuff to that army... something I couldn't otherwise have done, because GW chose to discontinue the paint that I was using for them.

And you can shout as much as you want about closing the lid... it won't change the fact that GW's poor bottle design has led to more than a little wailing and gnashing of teeth around the world from sealed paints drying out if left unsupervised for more than 3 and a half minutes.



Here's the thing: you, and many others no doubt, are perfectly fine with GW changing the paint range, and are excited about the new stuff. Good for you. Now, what if this revamp to the paint range, instead of completely revamping everything, had kept the core colours intact and just added in all the funky new stuff that everyone is all excited about?

Everyone gets something new. Awesome.
Everyone using existing colours can still get them. Also awesome.
Everyone wins.

Instead, we get a whole new range with meaningless names drawn straight out of a hat, and those of us working on existing armies can just go take a walk, because apparently the only alternative if you disapprove of anything GW does is to quit the entire hobby...

And "planning" to alienate your customers is quite a bit different to not caring whether you do or not.

Official information about the new paint range will be published next Saturday, stores will be informed the following week then.

Here a small rumour by a new poster over at Warseer:

Rybo5000 wrote:My over-enthusiastic and friendly local Games Workshop employee talked about a new Citadel: How to Paint book coming out:
- It will be in a binder
- White Dwarf will come with new inserts to add to your binder
- He hinted at a release being very soon but not sure how soon.

Has anyone else heard about this?

Kroothawk wrote:Official information about the new paint range will be published next Saturday, stores will be informed the following week then.

Here a small rumour by a new poster over at Warseer:

Rybo5000 wrote:My over-enthusiastic and friendly local Games Workshop employee talked about a new Citadel: How to Paint book coming out:
- It will be in a binder
- White Dwarf will come with new inserts to add to your binder
- He hinted at a release being very soon but not sure how soon.

Has anyone else heard about this?

Interesting - I can see the logic in wanting to make White Dwarf hark back to the days when it really was an indispensable monthly read so this makes sense. Hopefully they implement it properly though - I really don't like the idea of hacking apart a WD every month with a pair of scissors. Here's hoping the inserts either come bundled loose or ready perforated or something like that.

Cameron Baum wrote:The question I have is... will the GW paints I have now, if left for three years, dry out? Which is a worrying thought...

Yes, the GW paints you have now will dry out if left for 3 years or so.

GW pots have never been good at keeping paints in good condition.

On the other hand, I have Vallejo paints that were opened but haven't been used for at least 3 years. The worst thing is a small amount of dried paint at the tip of the dropper. Clear that out, shake well* and the paint is useful again.

* We're talking at least 5 minutes of continuous shaking. I'm seriously considering a paint shaker.

biccat wrote:
GW pots have never been good at keeping paints in good condition.

On the other hand, I have Vallejo paints that were opened but haven't been used for at least 3 years. The worst thing is a small amount of dried paint at the tip of the dropper. Clear that out, shake well* and the paint is useful again.

3 years is nothing. I have Revell and Humbrol paints which I have bought some 15-20 years ago.

People who refurbish antique boats, cars etc. may use paints and varnishes which date back to WW2 or even before.

Of course, those paints are oil based, which don't dry out nearly as quickly....

For all you people who are shaking your Vallejo paints for five minutes to get them re-mixed, there's an easier way:

Paint Agitators.

Legoburner figured out that these make perfect agitators, and I have ~250 sitting in little bags at home that I've been using. They work REALLY well, and I can bring back completely separated paints in 30 seconds. I also usually add a little bit of floor wax as well to help improve the flow.

Polonius wrote:Of course, those paints are oil based, which don't dry out nearly as quickly....

It probably won't matter in timescale of months/years, though. I've had Humbrol paints which have gone solid within month or two, if the pot was not properly sealed.

I spoke to a trusted employee friend about this and he informed me that GW employees had to sign a NDA about the paints. but he did say that the list on page one is frighteningly on point

Lorek wrote:For all you people who are shaking your Vallejo paints for five minutes to get them re-mixed, there's an easier way:

Paint Agitators.

Legoburner figured out that these make perfect agitators, and I have ~250 sitting in little bags at home that I've been using. They work REALLY well, and I can bring back completely separated paints in 30 seconds. I also usually add a little bit of floor wax as well to help improve the flow.

Great link Lorek, but currently not a great link as it's out of stock Will have to check that later...

jmpnfool wrote:I spoke to a trusted employee friend about this and he informed me that GW employees had to sign a NDA about the paints. but he did say that the list on page one is frighteningly on point

When I commented on how empty the store's paint racks were, my local GW store manager did confirm new paints are on the way a couple weeks back, but couldn't/wouldn't expand on that.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the new range pans out... Maybe I'm in the minority, but the perfect match issue won't affect me as I paint so slowly that my technique has changed and evolved and the 1st models in my army don't totally match the more recent ones! And that's using the same range of paints! With any luck some of the new colours might negate the need for batch mixing...