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**Melissia**

Personally, I think it's the hair style and the utter lack of poses that does it for me.

Aside from the usual problems with having miniatures that are wearing underwear outside of their power armor.

**pretre**

Oh good, this discussion again.

**andrewm9**

pretre wrote:Oh good, this discussion again.

Yeah Melissia, we've got plenty to complain about already we don't need to open that can of worms too.

At least not in this topic.

**warspawned**

Aside from the usual problems with having miniatures that are wearing underwear outside of their power armor.

lol - "In the Emperor's name; In Corset's We Trust"

Yeah, the bobcuts are conservative, but if they had long, flowing hair would they look disciplined enough? At least they don't have monk-style 'halo' hair. I'm looking forward to the new minis when they are finally released though - with Jes you can be sure of a great sculpt and poseability galore. Should have come earlier mind, but with this update it seems Necrons (even Tau) will get there first

Sorry all...

OT - At least Celestine's resurrection rule is better

**aka_mythos**

Melissia wrote:
aka_mythos wrote:I think SoB suffer from what Chaos marines suffer from, neither have had their champion on the design staff... neither have been given the attention necessary to flesh them out as more than just another power armored army on the table top.
CSMs have had tons of attention. They had a codex in second, two codices in third, and one in fourth, the only edition they lack a codex in is fifth.

True, a lot of their players complain that the codices aren't good enough, but the fact remains that they've gotten quite a bit of attention.

Sisters had a second edition codex, and a third edition codex where they were shoehorned into an inquisition book.

I'm saying these are parallel problems related to GW's preferential treatment of a certain faction, I wasn't placing either factions update as more important than the other. Don't get me wrong I think SoB deserve more attention, but the attention Chaos has recieved has been one of minimal effort that does little to distinguish them. Other marine armies, like Blood Angels and the rest, have grown to better distinguish themselves from the main C:SM, Chaos grew in 3.5ed but was trimmed back. Chaos Marines is GW's story on how to do as little as possible with a release.

SoB need more attention than Chaos does, but both suffer from the same issue of needing models and rules that put them as far aways from C:SM as possible, to distinguish them in a characterful way.

gorgon wrote:
The comparison with SM is why the army struggles a bit conceptually...which then creates a domino effect into their rules.

Back when Sisters were a tiny bit of fluff and a piece of artwork in the RT book, people talked about them as "female space marines." And although GW worked hard to fully develop their religious themes and concepts in the many years since they became a proper army, I think "girls in power armor" still comes to most hobbyists' minds quicker than "militant religious fanatics." I don't think it helped that Codex: WH brought in the whole =I= angle that diluted and distracted from the Ecclesiarchy themes. So I think a returned focus on the Ecclesiarchy is a very good thing for the army, because that will steer their rules, creation of new units, etc. into a more distinct and unique path.

This WD article does seem to point in the direction of less Inquisition and more Ecclesiarchy. I wonder what else GW could do to accentuate that; no doubt more choices in the henchmen-esque squad... a mobile shrine would be pretty good too.

**Dysartes**

warspawned wrote:
The girls haven't aged well, as it were.

I don't know, I still quite like the minis

Seconded - both the original Sisters and the additions to the SoB range that arrived with C:WH - I'm not so sure about the female WH Inquisitors, though.

Good to see Kyrinov and Jacobus return - I'm sure I've got both of them somewhere.

**darkPrince010**

warspawned wrote:*snip* but with this update it seems Necrons (even Tau) will get there first

"Yay, Tau will get a WD codex!"
*Looks at SoB WD codex*
*Cries a little inside

*

As a non-SoB player (I've never played as or against them), even I can tell this is stupid. The non-scaling Faith system (from what I understand of how the system works) means SoB will be unfeasible at Apoc level games, and probably at a disadvantadge at 2500+ point games. This is (imo) why Nids have synapse units that aren't HQ, since that would majorly crimp their ability to be competitive at higher point games. Unless you guys/girls get the wargear list to shame all wargear lists, Sisters seems like they'll be at a stark disadvantadge, and become less of an independent codex and more of a Fan-quality C:SM chapter. Even with a tricked-out wargear section, it sounds like you'll probably be filling a large majority if not all of your FoC slots for 2K point games, especially if the sisters drop to 9 points.

Dunno. That's my inexperienced $0.02.

**Melissia**

Actually my fandex is far higher quality. And probably better balanced for fifth edition

**pretre**

Melissia wrote:Actually my fandex is far higher quality. And probably better balanced for fifth edition

I do not necessarily agree with your opinions on this subject. If quality is based on effort put into the production of a codex, than your fandex is far superior. You have put quite a bit of sweat, blood and tears into it. I do not agree with all the directional decisions you've made in it, but agree that they came from your particular vision of the Sisters.

If it were to replace the current codex, I would play it. Personally though, and this is probably nostalgia talking, I would probably rather go back to the good ol' C: CA days than add tons of new types of sisters. I guess we'll see when the actual new codex comes out in 5 years.

**Melissia**

Adding new classes/types/etc of sisters (Novitiates exist in the fluff, and it's hardly a stretch of the imagination to see snipers or veterans, although whether or not the bikers is pushing it is up to the reader of course) is the only way to keep the army infantry-focused, however, which is waht I wanted to do-- most Sisters vehicles should be focused on limited fire support and transport, I think you'll agree.

I doubt GW will disagree-- Sisters are infantry-focused, Marines are balanced, IG are generally vehicle-focused.

**baron deathnyx**

Does anybody have pics of the new Sisters from the august WD?

**Melissia**

There are no new Sisters.

New rules, yes, even a few tiny pieces of new fluff, but no new models.

**H.B.M.C.**

Speaking of fluff, Melissia, are there any new bits of the fluff in this mini-Dex that strike you as contrary to previously published fluff. To put it another way, are there any glaringly obvious changes that you've noticed?

**Melissia**

H.B.M.C. wrote:Speaking of fluff, Melissia, are there any new bits of the fluff that strike you as contrary to previously published fluff. To put it another way, are there any glaringly obvious changes that you've noticed?

I don't have a copy in front of me, sadly.

Comes with being poor. I'm saving my money for Space Marine and college books, lol....

But the battle on San Leor was new to me.

**baron deathnyx**

Well anyway it seems like GW is trying to push extra bits with all there box's

**Melissia**

Except this time, where there are no new models at all.

**H.B.M.C.**

And, worse, the rumours of the actual Sisters plastics don't sound so promising - a box of 5 Sisters, not even enough to do a basic squad, at a premium Death Company/Grey Knights price, but including Seraphim Jump Packs.

**baron deathnyx**

I heard that the new sisters box set will have alot of options like making seraphim

**Tabitha**

Numero-Uno wrote:
Tabitha wrote:
Some of the old stuff, mostly HQ options, will be avaliable in fine cast, but almost everything in the army is getting new models. Again of course most of the new HQ models will be fine cast as will one of the elite choices, but almost everything else is plastic. And it wont be 2 years before they release. Sisters will be here by this time next year.

Do you think the Finecast versions will be saved for when the new plastic models are released next year or will we atleast see them sooner than the others?

None of the new stuff, fine cast or otherwise, will be released before the new hard copy codex. I cant speak about the models they are keeping but fine-cast-anizing like Celestine and the such, but I expect they will probably be released with the codex in resin as well, or around that time.

**baron deathnyx**

Box sets of five for every army with the added bonus of bits options for elite, fast or heavy upgrades. I think thats the new GW thinking

**Melissia**

baron deathnyx wrote:Box sets of five for every army with the added bonus of bits options for elite, fast or heavy upgrades. I think thats the new GW thinking

But not for this codex. It's for the REAL codex.

**rattman**

I will just continue to use my sisters army as grey knight + henchmen army.

As I dont use termies, I use the sisters as a bog standard GK strike squad. I haven't found any mod suitable for sisters in terminator armor yet

**baron deathnyx**

Sisters in term armour would be awesome

**shoggoth**

baron deathnyx wrote:Sisters in term armour would be awesome

Yes please!

**Pouncey**

Eumerin wrote:
Melissia wrote:Indeed. Ward likes slaughtering Sisters.

Amazingly enough, the Sisters actually win some battles in their timeline write-up. There's only half a dozen entries, and they're all on a single page.

- Nine seperate orders curb stomp the Red Corsairs when the latter try to hit San Leor (where the Sisters originated).
- A shrine world pops out of the warp fully corrupted, and the Sisters land a force to retake some artifacts. The group that goes after the relics (as opposed to the sisters holding the perimeter) is nearly wiped out, but they do manage to recover a few untainted relics before the Grey Knights arrive to Exterminatus the planet with cyclonic torpedoes.
- Sebastian Thor's homeworld is attacked by Ulthwe. A Seraphim squad takes out the Eldar farseer leading the attack. (note - these are Eldar that the Sisters are fighting, and thus the only race that is possibly even more ill-favored in the recent fluff than the Sisters...)
- Sanctuary 101 gets a single sentence
- The Sisters reinforce the Salamanders in a war against the Black Legion. Things are going well until the Daemon Prince leading the other side unleashes a large horde of possessed Chaos Marines. Saint Celestine appears and carves a path through the horde. She kills the daemon prince and disappears.
- Sisters reinforce the Imperial Guard on a Cardinal World under assault by the Tyrannids. The Sisters hold off the Tyrannids long enough for the Ecclesiarchy's priests to evacuate.

So...

One curb-stomp win (Red Corsairs), one solid win by enemy decapitation (Ulthwe Eldar), one 'back and forth but ultimately victorious' win (Black Legion; St. Celestine is involved), one successful but costly raid to retrieve relics, one 'buy the non-combatants time to evacuate before getting overrun' battle (Tyranids), and Sanctuary 101.

Curiously, the Sanctuary 101 mention doesn't even include why it's such an important battle from a fluff perspective.

Wait wait wait wait WAIT...

When Saint Celestine shows up, is this before or after she was at ground zero of a nuclear pile going up?

**The Grog**

htj wrote:
The Grog wrote:...or if they are serious about 'everybody updated before 6th'...

Ah, but don't you see? They have been updated. This is their update.

You don't quite see my point. If a Sisters book hits in 2012, there are two ways I see it happening. Either Sisters are in the launch box, or 6th doesn't hit until 2013 and next year is Sisters and Tau and this WD codex is somebody's pet dumb idea.

**2000 Volts**

I've read a lot of comments and the sort on this new codex - a lot of picking at different aspects and the different units/changes ect. I'm curious has anyone taken these new rules and tried them out?

Yes, I know there are no point costs or upgrades. But tonight I played with a small sisters force using the old point costs and the new 'dex stat lines and faith system. It was a very small force, 500 points. It consisted of:

Cannoness w/ BoSL, Evicerator, Rosarius.

6 Sisters Repentia + mistress

10 battle sisters w/ 2 melta

Exorcist.

I was allied with a 500 point marine force and we faced off against nids and chaos. My notes from the battle:

The faith system... yea, I aint gunna lie, it sucks. I used the reroll 1's for my sisters and it still sucked. I kept looking in the book for a faith power fro the exorcist hoping they would get something (like grey knights and fortitude for their vehicles) and the page never changed - nothing.

The only good thing I took away from it was I attached my cannoness to the repentia and they were pretty effective. While the +1 I was a waste giving the repentia preferred enemy meant when I charged a hive tyrant AND 3 warriors (they were close enough to get both) I took out everyhting after losing 5 sisters repentia. It was nice to have a chain fist strike even when one of them died, and even nicer to reroll misses for them.

That said - overall the powers do suck in actuality. If the sisters get printed at a much cheaper cost I will be happier. I'd feel a LOT better paying 15 points per repentia rather than 20 (tho I doubt that will happen since the evicerator alone is 15... in the old dex) And I'd much rather have 10 sisters with 2 melta guns at 100 points rather than 120.

Just some food for thought put into practice. I'll be testing it out more in the coming weeks.

**Eumerin**

Pouncey wrote:Wait wait wait wait WAIT...

When Saint Celestine shows up, is this before or after she was at ground zero of a nuclear pile going up?

St. Celestine doesn't stay dead anymore. She's received mortal wounds several times, but the mortal bit never seems to stick like it should. The word amongst the faithful is that she'll continue to live until the Emperor himself claims her.

Personally, I like the change.

Why can't SoB players keep the faith?

Because faith alone can only sustain you for so long. There comes a point at which that needs to be turned around and the question demanded of GW - "Why are WE ALONE forced to keep the faith when all of the other groups get updated?"

If GW had even said, "Guess what, everyone! In addition to all of your old Sister stuff, we've added a great new vehicle based off of the Rhino for Sisters! Check out the rules along with the first half of their new WD codex!" then I think that alone would have gone a long way toward making Sisters players happy.

**SabrX**

Sounds like Saint Celestine will be the closest thing to C:WH solo-Canoness.

**Mythal**

Eumerin wrote:Because faith alone can only sustain you for so long. There comes a point at which that needs to be turned around and the question demanded of GW - "Why are WE ALONE forced to keep the faith when all of the other groups get updated?"

If GW had even said, "Guess what, everyone! In addition to all of your old Sister stuff, we've added a great new vehicle based off of the Rhino for Sisters! Check out the rules along with the first half of their new WD codex!" then I think that alone would have gone a long way toward making Sisters players happy.

Agreed - if they'd made my Repressors table-legal, I'd be singing their praises from the rafters even if they'd ripped the Faith system out entirely.

Still, when all else fails, the Emperor protects.