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Kanluwen wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:It sounds like he's confused and thinks Fallen are a DA unit... not the traitor, chaos lovers they are.

Y'know, the funny thing is most of the Fallen don't really have that much to do with Chaos.

Some certainly do, but most are just out for themselves at this point.

Fallen do work with chaos, but at the same time will just work with pirates, renegades, conquer their own planets, use imperial guard, trick others, work with eldar, tau, anything that accomplishes their current goals.

They aren't a one trick chaos pony.

DAaddict wrote:

That idea is just..straight up awful.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:It sounds like he's confused and thinks Fallen are a DA unit... not the traitor, chaos lovers they are.

Y'know, the funny thing is most of the Fallen don't really have that much to do with Chaos.

Some certainly do, but most are just out for themselves at this point.

Fallen do work with chaos, but at the same time will just work with pirates, renegades, conquer their own planets, use imperial guard, trick others, work with eldar, tau, anything that accomplishes their current goals.

They aren't a one trick chaos pony.

The point I was making, just to clarify, is that calling the Fallen Dark Angels "Chaos lovers" is a bit of a misnomer.

Some have embraced the Ruinous Powers and are no different than any of the Traitor Legionnaires who stood at the Siege of Terra. Most though are isolated individuals who have "ruled entire planetary empires, sowing death and misery across whole sectors and waging bitter wars that have lasted decades and cost the lives of billions". Some of them have turned away from the Dark Gods and now wander as mercenaries or pirates. Still others have integrated themselves back into human societies as an attempt to atone for their sins.

The Fallen are as broad a category as they come.

IdentifyZero wrote:If you bother to read the back story at all, you would know...

That the GW staff were so lazy at writing fluff they basically plagerized the Horis Heresy instead of coming up with something original?

I love the DA fluff but I think there's quite a bit of flexibility in there to do what you want. I plan to say my DAs are Imperium when I play against Xenos/Chaos and I'll say they're Fallen (maybe even Chaos) when playing against Imperial armies; always using the same rules of course. Just for the fun of the game.

Yes, we all know that 'officially' the Fallen are loners, sometimes working together in small bands but if my opponent points that out, I'll just say: "You're right! You better report this to the Inquisition immediately! The Fallen are forming a Chapter/Legion whatever!" It's all good.

Also, I had my Deathwing pro-painted by a guy who isn't around anymore and I can't match what he did. So when that new "Deathwing Terminator" box is surely released, I'm gonna go with a black scheme and just mix'n'match my units with the two colors. Again, I'll just say that some of my Deathwing went back to the original color scheme for some reason and if you want to know why, you'll have to ask Asmodai.

Finally, against popular opinion; all of my power armor guys are robed because that's the way I like it. I know most people prefer robes only on Vets or maybe Captains (per the official fluff) but I want a horde of warrior-monks dammit and that's what I'll have! Again, ask Asmodai.

Dark Angels are secretive and mysterious and you can use that to create whatever you want.

Kanluwen wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:It sounds like he's confused and thinks Fallen are a DA unit... not the traitor, chaos lovers they are.

Y'know, the funny thing is most of the Fallen don't really have that much to do with Chaos.

Some certainly do, but most are just out for themselves at this point.

Fallen do work with chaos, but at the same time will just work with pirates, renegades, conquer their own planets, use imperial guard, trick others, work with eldar, tau, anything that accomplishes their current goals.

They aren't a one trick chaos pony.

The point I was making, just to clarify, is that calling the Fallen Dark Angels "Chaos lovers" is a bit of a misnomer.

Some have embraced the Ruinous Powers and are no different than any of the Traitor Legionnaires who stood at the Siege of Terra. Most though are isolated individuals who have "ruled entire planetary empires, sowing death and misery across whole sectors and waging bitter wars that have lasted decades and cost the lives of billions". Some of them have turned away from the Dark Gods and now wander as mercenaries or pirates. Still others have integrated themselves back into human societies as an attempt to atone for their sins.

The Fallen are as broad a category as they come.

Well I said "chaos lovers" and not "Chaos lovers" because I meant it in that general disorder sort of way as opposed to the proper organization "Chaos"... poor choice of words aside, I was trying to emphasize that unlike what I believed that poster was saying, Fallen aren't on the same side... thus it didn't make sense for them to be a consequence of some facet of the DA codex.

Fair point Mythos. My bad.

juliusb wrote:

Finally, against popular opinion; all of my power armor guys are robed because that's the way I like it. I know most people prefer robes only on Vets or maybe Captains (per the official fluff) but I want a horde of warrior-monks dammit and that's what I'll have! Again, ask Asmodai.

You are not alone in this. I like the horde of monks, that image is a chunk of the reason why I went with DA for my first army.

Kanluwen wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:It sounds like he's confused and thinks Fallen are a DA unit... not the traitor, chaos lovers they are.

Y'know, the funny thing is most of the Fallen don't really have that much to do with Chaos.

Some certainly do, but most are just out for themselves at this point.

the way things are, IF the empire knew about the fallen, which according to the fluff has been the dark angels biggest secret, the empire would deem them heretics. Not every dark angel that was lost during the fall of caliban had turned on Lion El'Johnson, it was a coupe set up by Luther with all of the new recruits they had taken during the years of the great crusaude. The interogator chaplains seem to be specialized chaplains trained to find out if the fallen are followers of luther or Lion El'Johnson.

The dark Angels have always been my favorite chapter by far, the brooding, secretive mythos and their story line as always been very appealing. Like them so much when i was younger actually got old Deathwing symbol fromtheir oldest codex incarnation tattooed on my shoulder! ( The things we do when were young and foolish!!!) As long as they flesh out there forcelist better than the last horrific version (never seen a army with so few unit options) I will be estatic.

captain collius wrote:

DODcrazy wrote:

DAaddict wrote:How about this for the Fallen? I think it would make GW happy and get the flavor over...

1. If the DA player takes an Inquisitor Chaplain, he may purchase a squad or character of the fallen.

2. In addition the DA player may take up to the value of the Fallen as additional forces.

3. If done so, the DA player will give the Fallen squad/character to his opponent to use as he sees fit.

4. If the Fallen unit(s) is killed in HTH the DA may count it as an extra objective or 2 KP depending on the scenario. If the DA fails to capture (kill) the fallen, his opponent may claim an extra objective or 2 KP.

Extra models equals extra dollars...

Yeah how about a big plate of NO with an extra side of NO.

bad idea how abotu we just designate his hq has info and must be captured problem solved

The onlly thing that is forced on the DA player is taking an Inquisitor Chaplain. At that point say you take a "fallen" squad of tactical marines and outfit it with a flamer and heavy bolter and give the Sgt a power fist... So you give the opponent say a 200 pt squad. Now you get to field 200 pts of extra DA. So now say you have a 1850 battle. In effect, your opponent gets the "free" Fallen squad and you get to field 2050 yourself. The problem is you have the objective of beating up the fallen squad added to the battle. You are free to pick any thing of equal value so you can take whatever is equal. Say a squad of Deathwing or 3 Ravenwing speeders etc. Meanwhile GW gets to sell you a box of tacticals, a rhino and 3 landspeeders...

Would also give you the extra joy of painting up Cypher or a squad of what you picture fallen to look like. (I like the ?group in CSM codex with the black robes and the Chaos symbol.)

DAaddict wrote:

captain collius wrote:

DODcrazy wrote:

DAaddict wrote:How about this for the Fallen? I think it would make GW happy and get the flavor over...

1. If the DA player takes an Inquisitor Chaplain, he may purchase a squad or character of the fallen.

2. In addition the DA player may take up to the value of the Fallen as additional forces.

3. If done so, the DA player will give the Fallen squad/character to his opponent to use as he sees fit.

4. If the Fallen unit(s) is killed in HTH the DA may count it as an extra objective or 2 KP depending on the scenario. If the DA fails to capture (kill) the fallen, his opponent may claim an extra objective or 2 KP.

Extra models equals extra dollars...

Yeah how about a big plate of NO with an extra side of NO.

bad idea how abotu we just designate his hq has info and must be captured problem solved

The onlly thing that is forced on the DA player is taking an Inquisitor Chaplain. At that point say you take a "fallen" squad of tactical marines and outfit it with a flamer and heavy bolter and give the Sgt a power fist... So you give the opponent say a 200 pt squad. Now you get to field 200 pts of extra DA. So now say you have a 1850 battle. In effect, your opponent gets the "free" Fallen squad and you get to field 2050 yourself. The problem is you have the objective of beating up the fallen squad added to the battle. You are free to pick any thing of equal value so you can take whatever is equal. Say a squad of Deathwing or 3 Ravenwing speeders etc. Meanwhile GW gets to sell you a box of tacticals, a rhino and 3 landspeeders...

Would also give you the extra joy of painting up Cypher or a squad of what you picture fallen to look like. (I like the ?group in CSM codex with the black robes and the Chaos symbol.)

That is a terrible idea for gameplay, fluff and balance.

Gameplay: Suddenly a tourney geared for lets say 1750pts need to make room for possible 2000pts games?
Fluff: What if your opponent plays nids, eldar, dark eldar, necrons, orks or tau? Then it makes no sense at all
Balance: Your opponent gets a crappy tactical squad that may not fit his army at all. You get the same amount of pts on something actually useful. This gets worse the lower pts limit the game originally is.

Breotan wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:If you bother to read the back story at all, you would know...

That the GW staff were so lazy at writing fluff they basically plagerized the Horis Heresy instead of coming up with something original?

Not much to plagerize since they haven't gotten to the DA Rebellion yet. They have had 2 stories so far: one on the Lion's rise on Caliban and another on their operations prior to the council of Nikea. There have been 2 short stories so far as well neither relate to their rebellion. All of the official canon for the DA Rebellion is in each iteration of their codex. Also the 2nd Edition Codex (not sure if its Angels of Death or Space Wolves) but they arrive in the Terra Solar System with the Space Wolves because the Lion blames Russ for stopping on some world and putting a rebellion down rather than just booking it straight for Terra. Both of them stayed together because the forces they had were not their full Legions. When they arrive, the battle for Terra had ended and Horus and the other traitors were on the run. It was the DA and SW that gave chase to Horus's fleet. They were the ones who chased them out of the Terran System. They just don't have much to go on in regards to the fallen angels yet. The only thing we know for certain is that Luther was corrupted by the Dark Powers as he was able to battle the Lion and nearly kill him. I would imagine that if the Lion could hold his own with Russ who beat the snot out of Magnus and held his own against the Night Haunter then Luther must have had additional aid from something as he wasn't a full fledged marine.

aka_mythos wrote:
Well I said "chaos lovers" and not "Chaos lovers" because I meant it in that general disorder sort of way as opposed to the proper organization "Chaos"... poor choice of words aside, I was trying to emphasize that unlike what I believed that poster was saying, Fallen aren't on the same side... thus it didn't make sense for them to be a consequence of some facet of the DA codex.

I know its for WHFB, but Arkhan the Black isn't really a Tomb King (he was the chief lieutenant of Nagaash, their eternally sworn enemy) but he was included in the Tomb Kings Army Book. They very well could make a Fallen Angel Army still based on the teachings of their Primarch or their "Order".

DrLove42 wrote:OK so I went to a comp last weekend (yesterday in fact ).

At this I had a chat with a guy who until recently used to be a GW manager. He talked with me a bit about upcoming stuff.

Now I know this seems like the least credible source in history (better than my brothers friends sister works at a printing company though) but other people from the club he'd come from say hes usually been right about his rumours;

May
Next wave Necrons. Also a suprise wave of fliers (the DE Voidraven, Necron Fliers, an Ork Fightabomba and a aircraft for regular marines. Maybe stuff for other races wasn't sure)at the end of the month, with rules in WD

DA
Next Book.- Preorder at end of may for beginning on June release

6th Ed
End of June.

6th Ed starter box
Will not be released in the traditional pre-UK games day slot, and will likely be earlier (when he didn't say)
Chaos vs DA. DA includes 5 Ravenwing, 5 Deathwing, some Tac Marines and a Deathwing Commander.
Chaos includes some chosen, a sorceror and a boatload of cultists (He did say he didn't see a Dread - which is against every other rumour thus far I think - But he did admit only seeing some of the sprues- Sorceror also opens up possibilites of those plastic Plaguebearers we've heard about before)

Chaos
Will be before the box set, supposedly preorders up at the end of July.

Tau
November.

He claimed GW are trying to release 3 codexes and the main rule book this year, in addition to another fantasy book and the hobbit stuff, so releases may seem more closely packed than we're used to

As I said, credibiltiy seems laughable, but I believed him. Maybe that makes me an idiot. We'll just to wait and see.....

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=21516

boyd wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:
Well I said "chaos lovers" and not "Chaos lovers" because I meant it in that general disorder sort of way as opposed to the proper organization "Chaos"... poor choice of words aside, I was trying to emphasize that unlike what I believed that poster was saying, Fallen aren't on the same side... thus it didn't make sense for them to be a consequence of some facet of the DA codex.

I know its for WHFB, but Arkhan the Black isn't really a Tomb King (he was the chief lieutenant of Nagaash, their eternally sworn enemy) but he was included in the Tomb Kings Army Book. They very well could make a Fallen Angel Army still based on the teachings of their Primarch or their "Order".

Fallen Angels never cluster in groups large enough to properly be called an "army"... so that means that if they are more than a single character or a squad, it isn't at all fluffy... next if they are a single squad or character, they will rarely ever be used.

This all started with the suggestion that Fallen Angels beings included like the old "Adversaries" of the Daemonhunter and Witch Hunter codices... The flaw with that and the with Fallen Angels is why would anyone want to pay points for a unit that is by design gives your opponent an advantage. Deathwing are dangerous enough... now they're buffed because they're going after a Fallen Angel? IF you put a one off unit like Fallen in the DA book, there will only be two occaisons when people will even consider using them... when they're a DA players who have multiple armies and/or IF the unit is inherently imbalanced or superceding another codices intended weakness when they bring it into their army.

Meanwhile if they're simply a part of a future codex, like an update of Chaos Renegade then its straightforwardly balanced within that one book and consequences of using or not using that unit are more easily weighed.

What is the official Imperial Account for the destruction of Caliban?

How did no psykers detect an entire planet being ripped apart by a warp rift?

Plot holes. Plot holes everywhere.

English Assassin wrote:The Robed Predator, perhaps?

Hahahahaha best idea ever.
So there's rumours about a plasma variant predator, what about the new FW Deimos Pattern Predator Executioner? Plasma as.

Cyrax wrote:

DrLove42 wrote:OK so I went to a comp last weekend (yesterday in fact ).

At this I had a chat with a guy who until recently used to be a GW manager. He talked with me a bit about upcoming stuff.

Now I know this seems like the least credible source in history (better than my brothers friends sister works at a printing company though) but other people from the club he'd come from say hes usually been right about his rumours;

May
Next wave Necrons. Also a suprise wave of fliers (the DE Voidraven, Necron Fliers, an Ork Fightabomba and a aircraft for regular marines. Maybe stuff for other races wasn't sure)at the end of the month, with rules in WD

DA
Next Book.- Preorder at end of may for beginning on June release

6th Ed
End of June.

6th Ed starter box
Will not be released in the traditional pre-UK games day slot, and will likely be earlier (when he didn't say)
Chaos vs DA. DA includes 5 Ravenwing, 5 Deathwing, some Tac Marines and a Deathwing Commander.
Chaos includes some chosen, a sorceror and a boatload of cultists (He did say he didn't see a Dread - which is against every other rumour thus far I think - But he did admit only seeing some of the sprues- Sorceror also opens up possibilites of those plastic Plaguebearers we've heard about before)

Chaos
Will be before the box set, supposedly preorders up at the end of July.

Tau
November.

He claimed GW are trying to release 3 codexes and the main rule book this year, in addition to another fantasy book and the hobbit stuff, so releases may seem more closely packed than we're used to

As I said, credibiltiy seems laughable, but I believed him. Maybe that makes me an idiot. We'll just to wait and see.....

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=21516

Me gustsa mucho! This is good news for everybody really, even thought it looks like what I thought was going to happen this year anyway.

Cyrax wrote:[
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=21516

Happy to at least see some rumors again in this thread, even if they don't pan out. GW managers aren't generally told anything in advance, but you never know.

Well at least given that one of this guy's most remarkable predictions would be unveiled at the end of next month, we'll know within 5 weeks whether to put any stock in these rumours...

maybe we'll actually get the Land Raider Aries in the codex and maybe a model for it as well

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:maybe we'll actually get the Land Raider Aries in the codex and maybe a model for it as well

Land Raider Ares was just a conversion by a GW Staff Member they posted a datasheet for as an example of what you can do with VDR/Apocalypse Data Sheets. I doubt it's going to be given a kit.

maybe, but it was developed by the DA so it might happen. and with GW's recent trend of "let's make the newest codex over powered" it's a definite possibility

I've heard crazier wishlisting... the simple fact is the 2 most identifiable ways to play DA are Deathwing and Ravenwing... ravenwing are already rumored to be getting an "elite" unit... I find it unlikely that GW would ignore Deathwing.... the Deathwing will likely get something. Unless what they get is something completely new it means something in the vein of terminators, dreadnoughts, or a landraider.

aka_mythos wrote:I've heard crazier wishlisting... the simple fact is the 2 most identifiable ways to play DA are Deathwing and Ravenwing... ravenwing are already rumored to be getting an "elite" unit... I find it unlikely that GW would ignore Deathwing.... the Deathwing will likely get something. Unless what they get is something completely new it means something in the vein of terminators, dreadnoughts, or a landraider.

I don't doubt the Deathwing will get something (I am thinking Paladin type units). The fact is, between GW and Forgeworld... there are way too many LR Variants!

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:maybe, but it was developed by the DA so it might happen. and with GW's recent trend of "let's make the newest codex over powered" it's a definite possibility

Everything seems overpowered when you don't know how to fight it yet.

Brother SRM wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:maybe, but it was developed by the DA so it might happen. and with GW's recent trend of "let's make the newest codex over powered" it's a definite possibility

Everything seems overpowered when you don't know how to fight it yet.

So true.

Brother SRM wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:maybe, but it was developed by the DA so it might happen. and with GW's recent trend of "let's make the newest codex over powered" it's a definite possibility

Everything seems overpowered when you don't know how to fight it yet.

QFT. I used to be awful with Draigowing. Now I crush them like ants.

Anyways, I predict that Deathwing would hopefully get something along the lines of a Dreadnought, or a new Termie type. I might even want a variant of Dreadknight. With a new model, of course.

IdentifyZero wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:maybe we'll actually get the Land Raider Aries in the codex and maybe a model for it as well

Land Raider Ares was just a conversion by a GW Staff Member they posted a datasheet for as an example of what you can do with VDR/Apocalypse Data Sheets. I doubt it's going to be given a kit.

I doubt it too. They may include it in a codex, which would be cool, but why put a kit out for one tank when mugs like me (who made one) will but two kits! Not really a massive problem if you need rhinos like (which I duly put to use).

Brother SRM wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:maybe, but it was developed by the DA so it might happen. and with GW's recent trend of "let's make the newest codex over powered" it's a definite possibility

Everything seems overpowered when you don't know how to fight it yet.

alright, example: a 5 strong GK purifer squad in apoc uses one shooting psychic attack and kills 300 ork boys. you call that not over powered?

geordie09 wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:maybe we'll actually get the Land Raider Aries in the codex and maybe a model for it as well

Land Raider Ares was just a conversion by a GW Staff Member they posted a datasheet for as an example of what you can do with VDR/Apocalypse Data Sheets. I doubt it's going to be given a kit.

I doubt it too. They may include it in a codex, which would be cool, but why put a kit out for one tank when mugs like me (who made one) will but two kits! Not really a massive problem if you need rhinos like (which I duly put to use).

Ooo can I see your Ares?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:maybe, but it was developed by the DA so it might happen. and with GW's recent trend of "let's make the newest codex over powered" it's a definite possibility

Everything seems overpowered when you don't know how to fight it yet.

alright, example: a 5 strong GK purifer squad in apoc uses one shooting psychic attack and kills 300 ork boys. you call that not over powered?

Assuming they could wound a 300 boyz mob..... 300x and the boyz all die then no. If they manage to with their power, it was designed to take down hordes of enemies.