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Made in pl
Tunneling Trygon





scarletsquig wrote:

I'm hoping after all these new army releases we see some stuff for existing armies added

Yeah, I would love to see modern version of undead skellies and ghouls, and orc ax. All without integral bases of course, and made to the standard of the latest plastic releases.
   
Made in gr
Storm Trooper with Maglight





If there is one unit that is omnipresent in lists and that I'd like to see officials models of, it's the Varangur Fallen.

I'd rather they re-do their less-well aged ranges - namely Elves and Dwarves. The vanilla Undead Skellies are fine imo, the Empire of Dust OTOH are dreadful, and not in a good way.

Also, I expect them to do Herd and Twilight Kin which - if I am not mistaken - are the 2 remaining factions with no range of their own. Unless you're using Mantic Elves (who don't look the Dark Elf part at all) and paint more sinister-looking.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/12/05 12:55:24


 
   
Made in ca
Sneaky Chameleon Skink




Michigan

I wouldn't mind to see a bit of an update to elves, though I hope that they could fit in well with the older ones too.

I am one of the ones who likes the kind of spindly style of mantic elves.
   
Made in ie
Dakka Veteran




Ireland

 Shadow Walker wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:

I'm hoping after all these new army releases we see some stuff for existing armies added

Yeah, I would love to see modern version of undead skellies and ghouls, and orc ax. All without integral bases of course, and made to the standard of the latest plastic releases.


I must be the odd one as I like the undead plastic infantry. Ghouls, Zombies, Revenants, and Skeletons look good even to this day and are usually dirt cheap.

The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

I’m still a fan of their elves, dwarfs and revenants. Even their ole Orcs have their charms.

Didn’t hurt that I got 40 elves plus siege engine for less than $10 on Black Friday.

   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I'm apathetic to a lot of Mantic's sculpts these days; they are solid for the price but now they need to stand against 3d prints. Many companies can justify a higher price by delivering a better product, but Mantic... once one gets outside the blocks of rank & file it gets really difficult to see how they intend to stay competitive. Coupled with that, a not insignificant amount of their kits ARE simply bad, ridiculously overpriced, or both.

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Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

The Undeads are still the best R&F infantry you can get out there
the individual GW model or 3D printed Skeleton might look better, but going into a Horde.....
their main problem is that they were made for a different game

the Elves have a charm mainly because they are different and not just humans with pointy or ridiculous helmets and one of the R&F kits that can actually build a phalanx outside of historical kits

the issue with the Dwarfs is that they don't have a "unified line" but individual kits with different aesthetics, I would say those are the ones that need an upgrade first
Having a plastic kit for Line Infantry, with Sword, Spears, upgrades for Elite, and another kit for Berserker based units

Next one being the Elves with just a simple increase in scale (taking similar sculpts but at 120-140% scale and be good), which could be done similar to the Orcs with a Twilight/Sylvan Kin Set instead of replacing the mainline Elves

But I guess we are going to see some other factions first,
Herd as is starting to miss models as the GW support for Beastmen is also not there, and we already have seen some teaser and got some monsters via boardgames
Empire of Dust really needs a different line up, either their own kit or Resin upgrades instead of the metal ones

Everything else would be individual models/units that need upgrades, replacing the outdated PVC kits with Resin or add new plastic ones

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Not a fan of how chunky all their modern sculpts designed for resin casting are. They tend to look like pro painted Happy Meal toys.

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Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

Agreed, the new orcs look like smaller superhero toys.

Mantic minis, with a few exceptions, are IMO generally bad designs, and often also bad sculpts (soft details that you can't even understand what is supposed to be), and are now not even cheap anymore.

I love their rules, but not enough to buy their poor minis for high prices.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 10:19:43


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Savage Minotaur




Baltimore, Maryland

scarletsquig wrote:

I'm hoping after all these new army releases we see some stuff for existing armies added, the main thing that got Mantic recognised early on was the quality and value of their flagship Undead range.


I feel like the main thing that got Mantic any recognition for their undead range was the fact that their Zombies weren’t GW’s ancient(even back then) Zombies kit. Never saw a whole lot of their Undead range get widespread use or acclaim, aside from the aforementioned Zombies.



"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 kodos wrote:
The Undeads are still the best R&F infantry you can get out there
the individual GW model or 3D printed Skeleton might look better, but going into a Horde.....


Nope, they're not.

Just go to the right 3D sculptors doing real modular stuff like this one :


Also, Warlord Miniatures do release undead kits that are honestly vastly superior.

Nowadays, Mantic Games old undead kits are what they are : old and outdated. Not even the cheapest anymore. This is in the past.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 15:21:06


 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

not a fan of those
I don't like Undead that must have been serving Necromancers they were killed and raised again to get the matching iconography

and I know the weapons are oversized to make them printable, but this does not make them look much better

for the Warlord ones, well not a friend of those but you get plastic bows and they match the old GW ones
yet it is a single type of "naked" Skeletons that are fiddly to build and arrange in R&F, not something I would call superior

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm apathetic to a lot of Mantic's sculpts these days; they are solid for the price but now they need to stand against 3d prints. Many companies can justify a higher price by delivering a better product, but Mantic... once one gets outside the blocks of rank & file it gets really difficult to see how they intend to stay competitive. Coupled with that, a not insignificant amount of their kits ARE simply bad, ridiculously overpriced, or both.


Yeah, I’m surprised how much their prices have jumped. I participated in a lot of their kickstarters and got used to $1 per mini pricing. Their newest plastic infantry seem to be more or less equivalent to WGA’s Death Fields line, pretty good but a bit pricey for any miniatures that aren’t unambiguous hits. However, their resin miniatures and ranges like the Matsudan are just too expensive. There are all kinds of options for monopose minis these days, most of them much cheaper.

As for 3D printing—I don’t feel that it directly competes with plastic miniatures. 3D printed minis work as monopose tokens for gaming, and for painting enthusiasts. However, one must first own a printer and want to use it (I freaking gave up on my a-hole printer, the jerk), and then one must be willing to clean 3D prints, a tedious and frustrating experience (compared to the enjoyable zen of assembling plastic minis). As other posters have said, 3D printing is a hobby in itself that only barely overlaps the tabletop minis and war gaming hobbies.

Compared to the time and stress of setting up a print, reprinting the failed print, reprinting it agai—no, wait I think it’s working—crap, reprinting it again, then cleaning it, the washing it in the hope it won’t be sticky no more, before painting and priming, an affordable box of plastic miniatures is quite competitive.

Edit: and buying 3D printed minis isn’t much cheaper than buying resin minis.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/07 17:41:37


   
Made in us
Destructive Daemon Prince





Albany, NY

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Not a fan of how chunky all their modern sculpts designed for resin casting are. They tend to look like pro painted Happy Meal toys.
My attraction to traditional miniatures at this point is almost only chunky sculpts cast in resin I find the new Riftforged line a lot more attractive than I thought I would - and I'm thrilled the two handed weapons are also plastic and in the kit, that is not how Mantic has often done unit upgrades in the past, which were often terrible metal bits direct from them.

I find modern Mantic stuff quaint and happily nostalgic in a way, and, when they've made better material choices, serviceable for the price. But I'd be lying if I said I'm not more interested in printing my own armies from vastly cooler sculpts that I can size however I want. I bought a 90% Mantic army over the last year as a show of solidarity ... however it's still in boxes as I keep printing stuff for my current army

EDIT: Re: Bob's commentary, it is still pretty cool to be able to buy a box of minis and get cracking on a unit, and not have to faff around with all the mess of multiple prints / fails / endless cleanup.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/12/07 20:16:23


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Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 kodos wrote:

yet it is a single type of "naked" Skeletons that are fiddly to build and arrange in R&F, not something I would call superior


They're superiors because at least, proportions are closer to a real skeleton - not like the cartoon one from Mantic Games.

Also, I will never say old Mantic Games plastic kits are superior as long as they have that annoying circle under their feet. They're really a pain in the ass to remove, especially on skeletons.

Because yes, it's a bother for hordes and regiments. Not even talking about the poor variety especially on zombies and "ghouls" (after all, you can mix the 2 to make more zombies, that's how bad ghouls are - especially with their frail fingers).

Unless you enjoy buying poor quality troops at a not that interesting price in comparison to the old days...even so, I would never say they're the best in that field. They're barely passable, and I'm being generous here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 19:50:47


 
   
Made in gb
Pious Warrior Priest




UK

The newer Mantic hard plastics easily keep pace with other companies efforts, and there's sometimes quite a few things about them which are superior.

None of the newer kits have the base disc, hasn't been the case since KoW 2nd edition launched.

I most recently assembled both Mantic abyssal dwarfs and some AoS Hobgrots for a WHFB 6th project, the Hobgrots were simultaneously monopose but also really annoying to assemble with different numbered parts scattered around the sprue.

In comparison, the dwarfs were a great multipart kit with sharp details, lots of weapon and head options, some nice touches such as distinct reloading/ready to fire/firing arms for the blunderbusses which both make the unit look great in multiple ranks and help with ranking them up. And there's 4 bonus hellhounds on the sprue too, little extras similar to the ones GW used to do (scarabs/ ripper swarms).

Most of Mantic's hard plastics now fall into this latter category of much higher sculpt quality and variety. Price has risen a bit over the years, but still around £1/mini for the most part.
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

Yeah, the kits being multi pose and lending themselves to conversions and including extra bits is a big plus in my book.
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

New GW is absolute hell to assemble, but when finished, the minis are heads and tails above Mantic. Some of them are also not really much more expensive.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Sarouan wrote:
 kodos wrote:

yet it is a single type of "naked" Skeletons that are fiddly to build and arrange in R&F, not something I would call superior


They're superiors because at least, proportions are closer to a real skeleton - not like the cartoon one from Mantic Games.


If you're talking about the rendered skeletons you just posted, those are further away from realistic proportions than Mantic's skeletons. Those bones much thicker in comparison, which makes the limbs look shorter. It's good modelling sense, but bad proportions.
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

 Illumini wrote:
New GW is absolute hell to assemble, but when finished, the minis are heads and tails above Mantic. Some of them are also not really much more expensive.


GW minis are great in sets of five or ten. Larger groups start to look very samey very fast due to them being monopose.

I have found that second hand GW minis are getting much riskier to buy because there are now ten different ways assembly can be borked up, and they are impossible to fix since you can't separate the parts again.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

I never understood what the problem with the base disc is
if you really need to remove it, a plastic/hobby saw works well and it is an easy task

and at least some possibilities of different poses or options that make conversions easier are a big plus for me

 sukura636 wrote:
Sarouan wrote:
 kodos wrote:

yet it is a single type of "naked" Skeletons that are fiddly to build and arrange in R&F, not something I would call superior


They're superiors because at least, proportions are closer to a real skeleton - not like the cartoon one from Mantic Games.


If you're talking about the rendered skeletons you just posted, those are further away from realistic proportions than Mantic's skeletons. Those bones much thicker in comparison, which makes the limbs look shorter. It's good modelling sense, but bad proportions.


I think he is talking about the Warlord ones, which are still oversized but look like a human skeleton, and not like an "undead"

I can see that people like naked bones more than the army of darkness vibe from Mantic, but my taste is different here as those would be ok for a Sword-and-Sandal like theme/setting but for medieval-fantasy I expect something different

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gr
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Sarouan wrote:
 kodos wrote:

yet it is a single type of "naked" Skeletons that are fiddly to build and arrange in R&F, not something I would call superior


They're superiors because at least, proportions are closer to a real skeleton - not like the cartoon one from Mantic Games.

Also, I will never say old Mantic Games plastic kits are superior as long as they have that annoying circle under their feet. They're really a pain in the ass to remove, especially on skeletons.

Because yes, it's a bother for hordes and regiments. Not even talking about the poor variety especially on zombies and "ghouls" (after all, you can mix the 2 to make more zombies, that's how bad ghouls are - especially with their frail fingers).


I actually did exactly that and managed to squeeze 2 Hordes of zombies out of 20 Zombies plus 20 Ghouls.

Spoiler:


I disagree on the notion that the Zombies have poor variety, I mean how many kits are there that let you do "emerging from the grave" and "missing upper body" Zombies?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/08 17:27:43


 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 kodos wrote:
I never understood what the problem with the base disc is
if you really need to remove it, a plastic/hobby saw works well and it is an easy task
^


You clearly haven't try to cut it from the feet of a Mantic Games zombie / skeleton. Problem is that they are molded with the circle and if you cut it at the base, their feet are considerably thinner. Can work if your base is swampy and you want to make it feel like their feet are sinking in the mud, but not if your base is made of cobbles.

Best job is to cut around the feet and then cut just a bit lower than the original circle so that they are thick enough.

It's annoying when you have to do this on a whole army of 100 undeads, mind you. I know, I have tried. Just gave up after the 30rd when I realized it was simply not worth it for the low quality of the model anyway.



and at least some possibilities of different poses or options that make conversions easier are a big plus for me


They're no better than GW's monopose miniatures, honestly. For skeletons, shields are incorporated with the upper body. Arms are all stuck in the same pose with the said upper body, you can only change weapons. As for variety, that's not what I call the best.



I can see that people like naked bones more than the army of darkness vibe from Mantic, but my taste is different here as those would be ok for a Sword-and-Sandal like theme/setting but for medieval-fantasy I expect something different


Oh you don't need to look for bare bones. These also exist :



Guess you'll say they're too "GW-ish" to your taste, though.

There are plenty of better undead than old Mantic Games undead kits. Being a fan doesn't justify to be blind to how outdated they are nowadays in comparison to what's offered on the market...and yes, that means 3D files as well.


 Esmer wrote:

I disagree on the notion that the Zombies have poor variety, I mean how many kits are there that let you do "emerging from the grave" and "missing upper body" Zombies?


Let's be honest : they can look good, but only if someone works them more than necessary on them. If you do the same on another kit that is more recent and more well thought, you can also make them look even better with the same amount of effort.

Kits should be treated as they are, not as what they can be if you tinker with them. 'cause tinkering can be done with everything else. It's not a gage of quality of the original kit at all.

I can also mix 3D files as well, mind you. And they can look even more awesome as a result when printed, converted and painted.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/08 22:28:29


 
   
Made in gr
Storm Trooper with Maglight





If you mean the Zombie/Ghoul mixing, yes, that would indeed be tinkering.

However, I was referring to the fact that the Mantic Zombie kit explicitedly has a base for an emerging zombie and a piece (a broken spine with some intestines, to be precise) that you can use for a legs-only zombie.
   
Made in au
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Melbourne

I've taken the discs off Mantic Ghouls and it wasn't a big deal (just used clippers). Mummies are a fair bit harder due to a) being restic and b) the tactical rock on 50% of the poses makes that part a real PITA.

EDIT: The Monstrous Encounters models directly above are quite nice, but I find that sort of detail more wight/grave guard/revenant/insert brand specific elite name rather than r&f skellies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/08 22:35:42


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Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Esmer wrote:
If you mean the Zombie/Ghoul mixing, yes, that would indeed be tinkering.

However, I was referring to the fact that the Mantic Zombie kit explicitedly has a base for an emerging zombie and a piece (a broken spine with some intestines, to be precise) that you can use for a legs-only zombie.


Sure, there is. Still doesn't increase that much variety.

All of you emerging or leg-only zombies will unavoidably look the same in a horde (by the way, one torso look particularly bad if you try to use it as emerging). It's no better than another GW monopose kit.

By the way, do you know you can use the unused tombstones from the latest GW zombie kit and put them on a separate base as well ? That's the same principle.



 Baragash wrote:
I've taken the discs off Mantic Ghouls and it wasn't a big deal (just used clippers)..


Me too. Now do that on a hundred of them. I guarantee you will feel it in your clipping hand way before you get to that number.

Is it that hard to understand having miniatures without that circle from the start is way much better if you're looking for actual variety, and not just blind fan defense of those outdated kits ?
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






The most maddening thing to me about the widespread use of those damned integral disc bases on minis, still in this decade, is how incredibly easy it would be to make everyone happy.

Just make the models with small pegs jutting out of below their feet and supply the empty bases with holes in them.

This allow people who likes the integral bases to insert the minis into them, and those who don't can cut off the pegs and put them on any base they like. (actually it would be a great feature as you can keep a small sliver of the peg to raise the models slightly off the ground level to avoid that 'sunken' look you can otherwise get while basing)

Yes, it's possible to remove models from integral bases, but it's more time consuming than you might think, and it's a lot more easy to damage the feet while doing it. And regardless, it's a completely UNNESSESARY hassle, for a very unclear gain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/08 23:35:17


   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm apathetic to a lot of Mantic's sculpts these days; they are solid for the price but now they need to stand against 3d prints. Many companies can justify a higher price by delivering a better product, but Mantic... once one gets outside the blocks of rank & file it gets really difficult to see how they intend to stay competitive. Coupled with that, a not insignificant amount of their kits ARE simply bad, ridiculously overpriced, or both.


Yeah, I’m surprised how much their prices have jumped. I participated in a lot of their kickstarters and got used to $1 per mini pricing. Their newest plastic infantry seem to be more or less equivalent to WGA’s Death Fields line, pretty good but a bit pricey for any miniatures that aren’t unambiguous hits. However, their resin miniatures and ranges like the Matsudan are just too expensive. There are all kinds of options for monopose minis these days, most of them much cheaper.

As for 3D printing—I don’t feel that it directly competes with plastic miniatures. 3D printed minis work as monopose tokens for gaming, and for painting enthusiasts. However, one must first own a printer and want to use it (I freaking gave up on my a-hole printer, the jerk), and then one must be willing to clean 3D prints, a tedious and frustrating experience (compared to the enjoyable zen of assembling plastic minis). As other posters have said, 3D printing is a hobby in itself that only barely overlaps the tabletop minis and war gaming hobbies.

Compared to the time and stress of setting up a print, reprinting the failed print, reprinting it agai—no, wait I think it’s working—crap, reprinting it again, then cleaning it, the washing it in the hope it won’t be sticky no more, before painting and priming, an affordable box of plastic miniatures is quite competitive.

Edit: and buying 3D printed minis isn’t much cheaper than buying resin minis.
Totally on the same page. I should have clarified I meant to compare apples to apples; Mantic's metal/resin offerings are often a similar price to a purchased 3d-printed alternative but a notable step down in quality.

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ERJAK wrote:
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Armored Iron Breaker





If they redid the Dwarfs, I would buy in within a heartbeat. Not too many plate-armored Dwarfs in plastic on the market.

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Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Sarouan wrote:
You clearly haven't try to cut it from the feet of a Mantic Games zombie / skeleton. Problem is that they are molded with the circle and if you cut it at the base, their feet are considerably thinner. Can work if your base is swampy and you want to make it feel like their feet are sinking in the mud, but not if your base is made of cobbles

I usually model my bases after I glued the figure on it, not before and as this is the standard for 90% of historical models I am aware of all the problems (and advantages) that come with those (or how to remove them if needed)

and most 3D printed ones need that base as well to avoid problems

Sarouan wrote:

Guess you'll say they're too "GW-ish" to your taste, though.

those are copies of the old metal revants from GW, and yes as I said I don't like the theme of Undead that come with armour, weapons or icons which make them look they worked for the Necromancer/Vampire already as a living being and not like raised dead

and for single models like heroes or monsters, there are some very nice models and files around, no need to ever bother with Mantic metal/pvc heroes while for R&F infantry, most of them are variantions/copies of classic GW models

and the good ones cost ~70-80€ per regiment for printed models (or ~20-30€ for the files)

Sarouan wrote:

Kits should be treated as they are, not as what they can be if you tinker with them. 'cause tinkering can be done with everything else. It's not a gage of quality of the original kit at all.

I can also mix 3D files as well, mind you. And they can look even more awesome as a result when printed, converted and painted.

this depends on the price, a cheap kit with lots of possibilities to tinker, is something different than an expensive kit with no chance to tinker at all

the Zombies are cheap enough and look good enough that I don't care about the limitations as variation can be done easily but cutting stuff or adding from other kits
they are even a good base to make a larger monster out of the parts, something that cannot be done easily with the new GW ones or Resin models

and if you have a printer and the time to tinker around and make stuff on your own, this is nice
for me this is not an alternative, although I have a access to a printer, but for all the issues it has, it is easier to buy a box of Zombies and tinker than trying to print 40 different ones

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

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