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H.B.M.C. wrote:

Bignutter wrote:Erm... bit harsh that isn't it? Especially since we know there are staffers or ex staffers about

One of them being Grotsnik, so Fraz's comment stands.

Bignutter wrote:Though one of the dakka rules was to, you know be nice to eachother?

But GW employees aren't people. They're drones. How can you hurt a drone's feeling? They don't have any.

So your basically saying that rule number 1 on the forums doesn't count because you don't see GW staff as people?

Thats just messed up

Perhaps they dislike headswaps because that would show the rest of the world how they make GW employees.

Cut off head, empty it out, and replace - but you don't have to worry about whose body it is on, as they are all now the equal of GW's BoD.

Bignutter wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Bignutter wrote:Erm... bit harsh that isn't it? Especially since we know there are staffers or ex staffers about

One of them being Grotsnik, so Fraz's comment stands.

Bignutter wrote:Though one of the dakka rules was to, you know be nice to eachother?

But GW employees aren't people. They're drones. How can you hurt a drone's feeling? They don't have any.

So your basically saying that rule number 1 on the forums doesn't count because you don't see GW staff as people?

Thats just messed up

Another example of GW's indoctrination mind surgeries appears to be extraction of the capacity to process sarcasm...

No kidding...

It didn't come across as sarcasm- and with some of the things that have been said before really implies that some people have a problem with GW staff

Bignutter wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

You should feel pity for redshirts, you really should. Like little children, they are so cute when they try to act adult and use the BIG WORDS.

Erm... bit harsh that isn't it? Especially since we know there are staffers or ex staffers about-
Though one of the dakka rules was to, you know be nice to eachother?

Well to me you're all little kids. to me Moses was a little kid. I'm not being specific, I'm just old.


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It would be like be calling most of my former customers pig-headed mouth breathers who don't know how to bathe or approach ladies socially awkward. Totally not entirely accurate.

Wait thats not accurate?


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Valhallan42nd wrote:

Oh, we have feelings.

On another line close to this, does anyone know what the stance is on GW if you make your own heads from greenstuff? or other materials? Ive heard if it looks similar to say something pig iron makes they get uptight as well.

What other materials?
Hawkins' heads are made of people!

back to the topic at hand, I think the dumbest thing to do is to go into a GW store and talk about this sort of thing. When I was manager of a GW store, we had guys come in and talk about resin casting a bunch of things, so I had to give them the ole company line on that kind of thing, where if they had kept their traps shut, no one woulda been the wiser.

Matt Varnish wrote:When I was manager of a GW store, we had guys come in and talk about resin casting a bunch of things, so I had to give them the ole company line on that kind of thing, where if they had kept their traps shut, no one woulda been the wiser.

WOW! You would censor people's conversations in your store. I could certainly understand telling people to keep "their traps shut" if the topic was something hotly political or just plain offensive, but seriously resin casting?

Matt Varnish wrote:back to the topic at hand, I think the dumbest thing to do is to go into a GW store and talk about this sort of thing. When I was manager of a GW store, we had guys come in and talk about resin casting a bunch of things, so I had to give them the ole company line on that kind of thing, where if they had kept their traps shut, no one woulda been the wiser.

If your talking about recasting GW or other minis, yeah thats wrong. If your talking about them sculpting their own pieces and casting them for personal use....yeah your wrong. Even GW has had articles on press molds.....

Mouse wrote:

Matt Varnish wrote:When I was manager of a GW store, we had guys come in and talk about resin casting a bunch of things, so I had to give them the ole company line on that kind of thing, where if they had kept their traps shut, no one woulda been the wiser.

WOW! You would censor people's conversations in your store. I could certainly understand telling people to keep "their traps shut" if the topic was something hotly political or just plain offensive, but seriously resin casting?

I think he's referring to Resin Copying and not casting your own customs.

Yea I've got no problem with a GW manager telling their customers to shuddup about recasting GW mini's or even telling them to get out. It'd be like talking about illegally downloading games at a video game store or Blockbuster, just a bad move.

Bignutter wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Bignutter wrote:Erm... bit harsh that isn't it? Especially since we know there are staffers or ex staffers about

One of them being Grotsnik, so Fraz's comment stands.

Bignutter wrote:Though one of the dakka rules was to, you know be nice to eachother?

But GW employees aren't people. They're drones. How can you hurt a drone's feeling? They don't have any.

So your basically saying that rule number 1 on the forums doesn't count because you don't see GW staff as people?

Thats just messed up

Agreed. Also hypocritical that the users that behave that way get their panties in a bunch when its turned on them.

Hawkins wrote:On another line close to this, does anyone know what the stance is on GW if you make your own heads from greenstuff? .

Dont do it... they will take you to the room in the back and tie you to a chair and use a nut cracker on your fingers... so that you never can sculpt again... Believe me I know these things because in my country we have lots and lots GW stores... so many I never seen one

Its simple... their rules, their stores... Only goes there who wants to. If your ok with anyone imposing their business oriented verborreia on your miniatures and in your hobby then you should follow all their nonsense... But believe me theres a world outhere outside GW and its soooooo much rewarding.
A place that stimulates your creativity above all, because for you its not a MONEY question to swap heads on your army, its a creative choice to customize your army more according to your personal tastes and sensivity... and there my friend is were you find true satisfaction IMO.
Limited to GW bits? lololol yeah right... My armies are 80% sculpted because i only found acceptable 20% of GW stuff, probably not according to GW propaganda agenda... yet I dont give a rats ass.

Cane wrote:Agreed. Also hypocritical that the users that behave that way get their panties in a bunch when its turned on them.

What part of MeanGreenStompas post did you fail at reading?

WarhammerTabletop wrote:Hi fellow dakka members I was just at my local GW talking to my friends about my new guard army im making, I was thinking of using cadians and attaching pig iron heads so I don't have a normal cadian army, a redshirt walked by me and must have overheard and said "Then your not supporting games workshop and we would have to through you out of the store." The redshirt walked of, me and my friends were pissed to here that gw doesn't allow a simple head SWAP just to give some taste to the army. Has this happened to anyone else, and is this a rule for all stores? Also shouldn't we be allowed to do what WE want with OUR money?

And this is when I tell him he is a jackass and never return to the store again.

You bought Cadians right? An Armie's worth since you stated your using Cadian models minus the heads? You got the GW heads that came with them right? You simply didnt attach the heads to the models. GW already charged you and received money for the Cadian heads when you bought the GW models. Thus if the guy wasn't slowed he would know this

Tell the guy to move out of his mom's basement and get a real job because he sucks at his current one...

Jesus Christ. Do people just chime in on the OP without reading the rest of the thread?

A redshirt does not have the power or authority to write GW policy. This has been established, multiple times by Mad Dok. It's also been established that the redshirt in question is a tool.

OFFICIAL GW POLICY is(apparently) 70% of a model must be GW in a conversion case. Which means headswaps are fine, so long as you're not going around telling everyone you meet/game with at the store "Forget the normal Cadian heads! Buy heads from THIS company!". Especially considering that Forge World makes Cadian conversion kits, which Pig Iron "takes business away from".

Now, think about that for a second.
It's not a case of "YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN OUR STORE!". It's a case of fething common sense. Use it and let this thread die like it should have the first day.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:In fact, I'm writing a scathing bit of verse about you in my very grimdark emo poetry blog right now. Do you have any words that might describe you, something rhyming with "canker"?

"Magnificent Bastard".

Rhymes very well.

You kill Nhaatzees?

Approach it from a slightly different view for one second.

Imagine now, if you will, OP was told he couldn't field his army in the store after a conversation stating he had painted them with another company's paint line. After all, GW has their own paint line, and all the articles about painting them use their product.

Being told what you can and cannot do with your persoanl property is draconian. It'd be similar to being told by your car dealership they won't do any warranty work since you put an aftermarket grill or tailights on your vehicle.

Kanluwen wrote: It's a case of fething common sense.

GW policy the oposite of common sense.

For people is a HOBBIE not a BUSINESS and only a tool woud let his own hobby be controled by anyone elses agenda.

70% 80% 50% WTF? I buy 1 mini from GW they should kiss the floor I walk... and not "I should buy things I dont want in order to be allowed" in a freaking hobby store.
Sure its their store, they can do what they want, just dont call it common sense.

Oh FFS.

IT WAS ONE STAFFER BEING A KNOBEND.

And no, it's not Draconian in the least. A Shop, any Shop, is Private Property. When on Private Property, you obey any rules laid down by the owner/occupier. Game Stores are no different.

And actually, modifying Cars etc can be reason for them to void the warranty.

Now, put down the pitchforks, take a deep breath, and repeat the following mantra...

'One knob does not make policy'

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Oh FFS.

IT WAS ONE STAFFER BEING A KNOBEND.

And no, it's not Draconian in the least. A Shop, any Shop, is Private Property. When on Private Property, you obey any rules laid down by the owner/occupier. Game Stores are no different.

And actually, modifying Cars etc can be reason for them to void the warranty.

Now, put down the pitchforks, take a deep breath, and repeat the following mantra...

'One knob does not make policy'

I like to think it does in my household (when I am allowed to make a decision providing wife and cats aren't home).

Seriously - 4 pages on this! MDG is right - in all the years I have been in GW stores in several different countries there has been an issue with this. One power tripping redshirt being a dick doesn't mean the rest are dicks. What is so difficult to understand? People are being weird lately.

Just the same old Interwebs. People looking for a storm in a teacup, a molehill to make into a mountain etc.

Oh, and of course Websites where they can get away with being over-opinionated, under-informed arseholes to their fellow posters.

Lord Maleval wrote:Approach it from a slightly different view for one second.

Imagine now, if you will, OP was told he couldn't field his army in the store after a conversation stating he had painted them with another company's paint line. After all, GW has their own paint line, and all the articles about painting them use their product.

Being told what you can and cannot do with your personal property is draconian. It'd be similar to being told by your car dealership they won't do any warranty work since you put an aftermarket grill or tailights on your vehicle.

They won't tell you that you are unable to field your army having used other paints. GW's stated time and time again, they use their paints in the articles due to wanting to drum up their own business, and the fact that it aids in making them a "one stop shop" for newbies. Someone who just broke into the hobby via Games Workshop might not know how to use weathering powders, or how best to thin out Vallejo paints, etc. They also might not know what colors match what in the Vallejo->Games Workshop conversions.

But making something as simple as "Here's the paints we make, used to create THIS effect. You can pick it up at your local store, and here's the colors to highlight/shade it. Enjoy" ensures a better business model, at least the way that GW is set up, having their own stores alongside of FLGSes, etc.

Oh, by the way:
Aftermarket grilles/taillights, if not professionally installed by your car dealership or installed poorly, can void the warranty. Read the warranty before doing any work. Again: common sense.

Actually I ignored the sad red shirt moment and was refering to another thing...

Redbeard wrote:You are allowed to do what you want with your money. You are allowed to buy whatever you want. You are allowed to build it however you want. You are allowed to glue on bitz from other companies.

The problem stems from your expectation that you be allowed to do whatever you want on someone else's property. GW Stores are not publically owned spaces, they're owned (or leased) by GW. GW makes them available to people who want to play with GW products as a way to promote their products.

Expecting to be able to play with someone else's models in a GW store is like expecting to buy a burger at Burger King and eat it in a McDonalds. .

You're entitled to do whatever you want with your own stuff. It's when you want to use someone else's stuff, in this case, their tables, that you have to follow their rules.

In this case, I don't think they're being unreasonable. If you want to make your models with alternate heads (a perfectly reasonable thing to want to do, BTW) you just have to accept that you might not be able to play them in GW's store. Just as you wouldn't be able to play Warmachine, or M:TG in a GW store.

Redbeard you seriously think that it is reasonable for GW to say not to use models with a head swap in thier stores? That s insane to me. GW isn't missing out on any money here. You are still buying their overpriced cadian kits. You just also happen to be buying other bits to add to them.

Frankly I just don't see a GW employee carrying out such a threat. I've heard some pretty weird stuff about GW stores on this site but when we had one in St. Louis they were pretty laid back. It's stories like this that have been reallymaking me reconsider playing a game that I love. I have a problem supporting a company that seems so hostile to their own customers.

And your experience is the experience of the majority. Simple as.

Most reports of 'jerk' behaviour online, utterly fail to mention any other side of the argument, like perhaps the person complaining had been rude to customers and staff, and so a small excuse was seized upon to eject them from the store.

NAVARRO wrote:

Kanluwen wrote: It's a case of fething common sense.

GW policy the oposite of common sense.

For people is a HOBBIE not a BUSINESS and only a tool woud let his own hobby be controled by anyone elses agenda.

70% 80% 50% WTF? I buy 1 mini from GW they should kiss the floor I walk... and not "I should buy things I dont want in order to be allowed" in a freaking hobby store.
Sure its their store, they can do what they want, just dont call it common sense.

Except that it IS common sense. Look at any dining establishment. They disallow outside food for the same reason GW disallows competitor's miniatures in their official tournaments and their official stores.
But hey, I guess Wildflour and Buffalo's near me are draconian fascists for not letting me sit down and eat something from Subway inside!

But, FLGSes don't have the same requirements for conversions, etc. However, when they run an "official" GW tournament, with a GW sponsor and photo submissions, etc...they have to adhere to those requirements.

Two reasons why it may not be in GW's interests to allow conversions with alternative heads.

1. Money spent on spare heads isn't being spent on more GW models.
2. The use of cool alternatives to GW models gives an obviously bad example to other players. The next thing you know it's all Zulus instead of Kroot and Gundams instead of Crisis Suits.

The counter-argument is that as long as people spend some of their money on GW stuff, the longer users stay in wargaming and the keener they are, it doesn't matter if they buy some competitors' stuff because they will keep on buying GW stuff too. Under this doctrine GW should ignore minor examples of alternatives providing they keep users playing and spending and focussed on GW products.

This is the "make the pie higher" argument.

Anyway I don't know whether GW have any official policy on the above points.

The key thing to remember is that the GW shop isn't your club full of your friends wanting for you all to have a nice time playing wargames. It's a business trying to get your money, and it only has GW goods to sell.

The staff behave according to a mixture of what Head Office tells them to do, what the local manager tells them to do, and what they individually think they should do.

Sometimes the guy at the sharp end is a knob.

Im sorry but thats just ridiculous. You supported GW buy buying your Cadians. You THEN spent more money to buy heads for said Cadians.
Now if you bought a totally different game makers minis, and wanted to play in GW Id completely agree with the redshirt, but theres now way thats right/fair to say you cant simply because of the heads.


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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It is supporting GW, hence I said the Redshirt was being a knobend.

I appreciate that people being jerks is largely subjective, but this guy really did overstep the mark.

And the Redshirt was not speaking for the company, he was speaking for himself, wishing he was speaking for the company.

Although I totally agree with you on what youve said so far, I disagree that he wasnt speaking for GW. He was there working for GW and waering the GW shirts. He was a representative FOR GW. There for, he was speaking for GW at that moment. Was he right? Hell no, but anyone that heard that will associate that with GW. Just pointing that out