Ultimate Eldar Battle Report "The Trilogy" - AlamoGT(X)Railhead Rumble(X)WargamesCon(X)19/19FINISHED

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**Zid**

Very nice rep against the cronz smitty, that's a fine example of when a player gets side tracked killing stuff and forgets the mission!

**Smitty0305**

Avatar 720 wrote:
Lucre wrote:I was under the impression that energy fields only worked on shooting attacks, and therefore did not reduce rams. I'm pretty sure it was pretty specific about shots and ranged attack, but maybe I'm missing something.

It only works against ranged attacks, so ram strength is not reduced, since it is not a ranged attack.

Which is why it's always best to ram with holofielded vehicles wherever possible, as holofields greatly mitigate return damage.

If you want to get into a huge RaW vs RaI Arguement on my thread with a poorly written rule that hasnt been FAQ'd go for it. Ive played my army for years, with hundreds of games, I honestly dont need people quoting my codex and nit picking every little thing.

Tank Shocking Hits my Front Arch. It isnt a close combat attack, And I do the attack From a Range which is the distance I declare in my tank shock, the BS is an auto hit. You can argue it either way, and if my opponent had fought it It would have gone to a judge, and it would have been the end of the story.

My opponent allowed it, it didnt need to go to a judge, problem solved.

If you want to rules lawer my thread go for it, I appreciate the bumps.

**Aves**

Smitty0305 wrote:If you want to get into a huge RaW vs RaI Arguement on my thread with a poorly written rule that hasnt been FAQ'd go for it. Ive played my army for years, with hundreds of games, I honestly dont need people quoting my codex and nit picking every little thing.

Getting a little defensive, huh?

You did really well on battle points, but it looks like you really suffered on Sports (two bad game votes). Maybe make Sportsmanship your focus on the next two events?

**Avatar 720**

All I did was confirm what the poster I quoted had said, since he stated that he doubted it was correct ("...but maybe I'm missing something.").

Calm down.

**AndrewC**

Smitty0305 wrote:If you want to get into a huge RaW vs RaI Arguement on my thread with a poorly written rule that hasnt been FAQ'd go for it. Ive played my army for years, with hundreds of games, I honestly dont need people quoting my codex and nit picking every little thing.

Tank Shocking Hits my Front Arch. It isnt a close combat attack, And I do the attack From a Range which is the distance I declare in my tank shock, the BS is an auto hit. You can argue it either way, and if my opponent had fought it It would have gone to a judge, and it would have been the end of the story.

My opponent allowed it, it didnt need to go to a judge, problem solved.

If you want to rules lawer my thread go for it, I appreciate the bumps.

I would have thought that by posting bat-reps you should have expected people to nit-pick.

Personally I do not think that energy fields work against rams, however your opponent let it slide so no harm done.

However, now that you have posted this tactic here for all to see, I would suggest that you speak to the TO beforehand, as to the 'legality', to prevent any nasty surprises.

Cheers

Andrew

**Red Corsair**

Every event I have played and in casual play, fields work with ramming. It's poorly written and unfortunately, as is, I think it works. Stupid aesthetically? Yes. Effective strategically? absolutely. At best you could argue your way into a die roll. His opponent didn't, c'est la vis.

I am more concerned with him embarking his FD's and moving flat out to contest. It could be a typo, but even experienced players fumble this in the heat of the game.

So far? Excellent reports smitty0305! Thanks so much for sharing. On feedback, don't take it personally batreps are meant to spark discussion. As long as it remains civil it really adds t the report IMO.

**Smitty0305**

Red Corsair wrote:Every event I have played and in casual play, fields work with ramming. It's poorly written and unfortunately, as is, I think it works. Stupid aesthetically? Yes. Effective strategically? absolutely. At best you could argue your way into a die roll. His opponent didn't, c'est la vis.

I am more concerned with him embarking his FD's and moving flat out to contest. It could be a typo, but even experienced players fumble this in the heat of the game.

So far? Excellent reports smitty0305! Thanks so much for sharing. On feedback, don't take it personally batreps are meant to spark discussion. As long as it remains civil it really adds t the report IMO.

yea I think I might of embarked my Fire dragons and turbo'd to his objective. Alternative to that would be to leave the Fire Dragons there, and turbo the serpent without the fire dragons. It wouldnt of changed anything, sometimes turbo rules get me during games :(.

**Minus67**

This is Brandon S form Game 4. Congrats on winning our game and doing well at the tourney but again i urge you to play faster.

You took a 42 minute long turn. This is not an exagerration i timed you it took so long, Luckily we were allowed to start 30 minutes early and its a good thing since if we had started on time we would not have finished the game. Your turns should take no longer than 10 minutes with this army.

In reality we played a 3 turn game (3,4,5) and it took over two hours. My turns took maybe 10-15 minutes at most.

My message is this PLAY FASTER. It is entirely my fault for getting bored and wanting the game to be over with and I'm sure in a non-wargaming environment you are a great guy but you were so slow and non-interactive of an opponent as to make the game unfun.

Also it really came down to one penetrating hit on my turn 5 on your wave serpent. I roll a 3, one of only 2 results that lets you win the game, but oh well thats why we play games with dice. Also i think your perspective on my strategy has you thinking the necrons vehicles are fast skimmers. Only the command barges are. everything else has to move 6 or less to fire so it becomes a slow crawl to the opponents side of the field. Also your storm guardians on your right flank should have died when they rammed that's on me for not catching it as well.

Anyways best of luck at wargamescon but they will be watching how often you don't finish your games.

**Mannahnin**

That turn 3 against the CSM was a bad gamble. You needed a more defensive play; exposed too much on long odds.

Necron mech is much slower than Eldar, and AV13 via quantum shielding, open-topped, is overall less durable than your vehicles, although it's immune to S6 until the shielding goes down. I don't disagree that it's better than Eldar, but that's because Eldar stuff is still overcosted, not because Necrons are broken, by any means. Those Triarch Stalkers are overpriced, too.

**Smitty0305**

Minus67 wrote:This is Brandon S form Game 4. Congrats on winning our game and doing well at the tourney but again i urge you to play faster.

You took a 42 minute long turn. This is not an exagerration i timed you it took so long, Luckily we were allowed to start 30 minutes early and its a good thing since if we had started on time we would not have finished the game. Your turns should take no longer than 10 minutes with this army.

In reality we played a 3 turn game (3,4,5) and it took over two hours. My turns took maybe 10-15 minutes at most.

My message is this PLAY FASTER. It is entirely my fault for getting bored and wanting the game to be over with and I'm sure in a non-wargaming environment you are a great guy but you were so slow and non-interactive of an opponent as to make the game unfun.

Also it really came down to one penetrating hit on my turn 5 on your wave serpent. I roll a 3, one of only 2 results that lets you win the game, but oh well thats why we play games with dice. Also i think your perspective on my strategy has you thinking the necrons vehicles are fast skimmers. Only the command barges are. everything else has to move 6 or less to fire so it becomes a slow crawl to the opponents side of the field. Also your storm guardians on your right flank should have died when they rammed that's on me for not catching it as well.

Anyways best of luck at wargamescon but they will be watching how often you don't finish your games.

My storm guardians moved 12". We resolved it as a str7 hit, and you rolled a 6 on the pen chart to destroy the vehicle. My Autarch also got out that turn. Later in the phase when my fire dragons turbo'd we played it that they were dead. I dont understand why we would play that correctly, and then not go back and fix the error if it was indeed an error.

As far as playing slow, when you confronted me about it I apologized to your face and told you it wasnt intentional. Id also like to add that I apologized EVEN tho we were ONE OF THE FIRST games in the hall to finish, and I went out on my lunch break atleast an hour early. Because I already apologized, Im not really sure why your bringing it up again as it didnt effect the game.

It was a great game, against a well designed army that was well painted, on a beautiful table. I enjoyed playing you, and this game will probably go down into my top 5 favorite games ever. If I did any thing else that bothered you, or that you would like to discuss, I would be more than happy to talk on a DakkaPM or Skype. As far as the comment about WarGamesCon, im not sure how that is intended. If you mean that you think I purposely slow play, then we can discuss about that further. Let me assure you, there are plenty of people on this board, and in your BOLS group who have played me. I encourage you to talk to John Cook/Chris Long/ or any of the Dallas players, because they can tell you that 95% of the time I finish my games quickly.

If you would like to add anything into the battle report Brandon , Your Tactics, Your Pre-Game Plan, Or a summary of the game and how it went I would love to add it to the battle report. If not then thats ok as well.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:That turn 3 against the CSM was a bad gamble. You needed a more defensive play; exposed too much on long odds.

Necron mech is much slower than Eldar, and AV13 via quantum shielding, open-topped, is overall less durable than your vehicles, although it's immune to S6 until the shielding goes down. I don't disagree that it's better than Eldar, but that's because Eldar stuff is still overcosted, not because Necrons are broken, by any means. Those Triarch Stalkers are overpriced, too.

As far as the CSM game, Ive played Brian's list so many times and covered every possible contingency. If I hadnt gone balls out turn 3, what exactly do you think I should have done? My fear is, that if I hadnt gone balls out turn 3, his chosen would have moved up, gotten out, and blown something up that would get lashed into a doom siren. I already had fire dragons and Defenders in the open, and both of those would have died the next turn. After those 3-4 things were gone, Turn 4 I could have responded, but then again I think if I had responded turn 4 or even 5 the outcome would have been the same. Ive been thinking about that game alot, and Ive basically come to the conclusion that my army bleeds kill points, and I have an in ability to deal with mass marine armies.

As far as the Necron army. No I dont think its overpowered when compared to GK and DE and the newer codex's. I think Quantum shielding is a little bit absurd, 11 armor13 vehicles is just bonkers. I also think that overlords are on the verge of OP. Monsterous Creature, with T5 2+3+ is broken. Compare the model to the sanginor or other 2+ characters, and when you compare the point cost to survivability, damage output, and mobiltiy from the command barge, its a strong if not overpowered unit.

I do stand by my statement, that I had no mathmatical advantage during that game.

**Red Corsair**

Yea command barges and pulses are a bit crazy. For me what makes those lords stupid is adding an orb. Now he is toughness 5, 2+ 3++ 4+++ saves. The odds of keeping him down or locked are stupid. Then the fact that CCB's ignore conventional rules. Can snipe units even in cc and hit rear armor with no cover is slowed. I think all necron lists need two of these or your just not playing competitive.

That said, I think you should have deployed to give every thing cover from terrain/other tanks and then used your mobility to your advantage. Maybe multiple rams on the ccb's until they are down then last turn objective shenanigans. He only moves 6" with the rest of his army if he wants any chance of shooting down your tanks. I liked the ramming idea but disliked reserving, it relied on your opponent being a nub and walking into a trap (queue admiral ac'bar

. But hey you pulled a V out your arse so good job!

**Aves**

Smitty0305 wrote: Ive been thinking about that game alot, and Ive basically come to the conclusion that my army bleeds kill points, and I have an in ability to deal with mass marine armies.

That's why I use those bulkier Dire Avenger units w/ Bladestorm in my Mechdar. Those units can be combined with Doom/Guide to wipe squads away. Obviously it wouldn't have helped in your CSM game since you were not able to effectively de-mech him.

**-666-**

I really enjoy your batreps Smitty... You've got a lot of passion for the game and do quite well with an army that while isn't top tier is still strong in the hands of a capable general. I am looking forward to your next batrep.

: )

**m00ndragon**

hello. i am one of the local san antonio players/ alamo gamers, and i noticed on your game 4 you were playing on the "hoth" table. lol we made that to redo the battle for hoth awhile back. i wasnt able to attend the tourney but i was glad to see that board was still around. great battle reports btw, look forward to reading your game 5. i already read brians CSM report and that game 5 was EPIC!

**jy2**

Congrats on the tourney so far. Not much you can do against CSM when the dice doesn't go your way.

With regards to AV13 necrons, I don't think it's nearly as bad a matchup as many would think, even though AV13 does exploit an eldar weakness much as deathwing exploits a pure grey knight weakness (lack of AP1/2 shooting and 3++ vs NFW). Though I'd say your opponent kind of beat himself in that one.

Looking forwards to the last battle.

**Mannahnin**

Smitty0305 wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:That turn 3 against the CSM was a bad gamble. You needed a more defensive play; exposed too much on long odds.

As far as the CSM game, Ive played Brian's list so many times and covered every possible contingency. If I hadnt gone balls out turn 3, what exactly do you think I should have done? My fear is, that if I hadnt gone balls out turn 3, his chosen would have moved up, gotten out, and blown something up that would get lashed into a doom siren. I already had fire dragons and Defenders in the open, and both of those would have died the next turn. After those 3-4 things were gone, Turn 4 I could have responded, but then again I think if I had responded turn 4 or even 5 the outcome would have been the same. Ive been thinking about that game alot, and Ive basically come to the conclusion that my army bleeds kill points, and I have an in ability to deal with mass marine armies.

Well, I think you started to put yourself in an awkward position by bunching too much in the center on turn 2. You let the threat of Outflanking Chosen bunch you up in the middle, to some extent negating your range/mobility advantage, as it let him move the rest of his army up the middle, knowing it'd still be reasonably close even if de-meched. Chosen Outflanking are (for the most part) a liability to the CSM player in a KP mission. They feed the opponent two KPs and usually only kill one thing. If they kill two it's due to lucky dice, but they still generally give up two to do it, so even if he managed it, you're probably staying even in KPs while not screwing yourself on table position.

Your better move would have been to spread out more, leaving the ends of your formation (the only things exposed to close-range Chosen/Rhino melta) being Wave Serpents which ignore the +2d6 from their side arc. Position to fire at the Rhinos on the ends of his formation from maximum range. As your math pointed out, you only expect around 4 damage results, which is most likely ~two rhinos destroyed, immobilized, or stunned. If you just focused on those two at the front corners of his formation, odds are good to stop the two closest, leaving his other rhino squads struggling for range. Leave your longer range shooting for last, of course, so it can hit the next-closest vehicles afterwards if your early stuff manages to stop the two closest. Even with what happened- stopping only 1, you'd have still left half or more of his Rhino-mounted squads with no target in range. Spreading out more like this would make it harder for all his Rhino squads to have reached any target, and would have reduced the percentage of the Defilers doing anything. All bunched up like you were it must have been very hard for them to miss.

On turn 3, with you having bunched and him having gotten some hot dice and hurt you, your best bet was to retreat out of range, and focus on the closest available KPs; like his Chosen Rhino squad on the left. That's why he popped smoke on it, because he knew they were your best available target, giving you 2 KPs on offer which you could kill while retreating and opening up the range. Doing stuff like moving Fire Dragons forward to pop a Dreadnought was just silly; even if you kill the Dread (which isn't guaranteed), you've guaranteed the death of the FDs. Best case scenario for you on that move is a 1/1 swap, which doesn't help you at all. It may actually make things worse for you, because it may give him free movement (assault, possibly with help of Lash if needed) for that dismounted CSM squad to move + assault + consolidate toward your stuff. You needed moves which, even if lower percentage of return, could gain you KPs while not exposing yourself to near-guaranteed equal or better KPs for him. Just looking at the units you listed off and their targets, it looked clear to me that the expected return on those moves was a net loss or wash on KPs, which is not a winning move for you playing from behind. If you were worried about Lash, you could certainly have focused some fire on the princes while pulling back.

I do think you're right that taking Shuriken Cannons over Scatters hurts you in this fight; I know you're taking certain other units that cost you the points, but swapping even one squad of Defenders for a cheap unit of Dire Avengers would free up those points; it's so cheap. May be worth considering in future games/tournaments. I'll link you a bat rep from Flavius_Infernus, who brought a somewhat-similar (he used cheap DAs rather than guardians, and built in substantially more S6 shots) Eldar army to several tournaments in the last year. There's a game against CSM from The Conflict GT I'm thinking of where he just trounced the poor CSM player thanks to weight of fire and greater range/mobility.

Here it is: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/340795.page#2344801
It's an objective game, and I think his opponent's list isn't as good as Brian's, but I think it's still illustrative.

Smitty0305 wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:Necron mech is much slower than Eldar, and AV13 via quantum shielding, open-topped, is overall less durable than your vehicles, although it's immune to S6 until the shielding goes down. I don't disagree that it's better than Eldar, but that's because Eldar stuff is still overcosted, not because Necrons are broken, by any means. Those Triarch Stalkers are overpriced, too.

As far as the Necron army. No I dont think its overpowered when compared to GK and DE and the newer codex's. I think Quantum shielding is a little bit absurd, 11 armor13 vehicles is just bonkers. I also think that overlords are on the verge of OP. Monsterous Creature, with T5 2+3+ is broken. Compare the model to the sanginor or other 2+ characters, and when you compare the point cost to survivability, damage output, and mobiltiy from the command barge, its a strong if not overpowered unit.

I do stand by my statement, that I had no mathmatical advantage during that game.

I'm not saying you did; I'm contesting what I read in the report as repeated assertions by you that the Necrons do absolutely everything better, have no disadvantages, that the game is stupid, and that you had no possible way to win that game or kill their vehicles. Which were obviously not correct statements. It was an uphill battle, sure, but far from a guaranteed loss, and with fire dragons + the option of ramming you could indeed kill their vehicles. With the FDs obviously you lose the squad after they kill one vehicle, but if it's an important vehicle, that's worth the trade. And AP1 + Open-Topped targets make the kill near-guaranteed if they get inside 6".

I agree that tooled-up overlords are frighteningly good and durable. They have their downsides, though. Low number of attacks and relatively poor WS means they can get tarpitted very easily, for one, once the barge gets popped.

**Celtic Strike**

Eldar suffer from being a very early 4th ed codex when a lot of things didn't exist. Ramming being one of them. Without the FAQ Banshee masks don't work either.

I play eldar, I have since 2nd ed and right now, they're full of stupid. This is coming from a guy who voluntarily plays with Tau and Sisters.

...Christ, I really want an army with a 5th ed codex... I wonder what that's like

**Mannahnin**

Eldar are challenging to use nowadays. That's one of the things that makes this batrep series so cool and novel. Just like how everyone was so impressed with Reecius' performance at Adepticon with his footdar.

**pretre**

Thanks for the reports! Any chance of hosting the pics on dakka?

**Smitty0305**

Welp Guys heres game 5, hope you enjoy the finale of the last Alamo Grand tournament in 5th Edition!

Game 5

Spoiler:

**-666-**

Well done Smitty !!

: )

**Zid**

Gj smitty

**calypso2ts**

Nice job, although I might not qualify an Imperial Guard list as horrible when it makes it into the top 8 competitors. I also might not qualify Manticores as terrible or say getting seized on is stupid.

Also, you cannot pre-measure a tank shock - unlike normal movement. It even states on page 68 that "...you may attempt a Tank Shock instead of moving normally." It then describes exactly how you move for a Tank Shock - pivot, declare distance, drive. As soon as you measure your tanks movement, you are opting to move normally and cannot Tank Shock (or Ram for that matter).

**pretre**

Yeah, thanks for the final report. Agree with c2ts on the tank shock though.

**Iago**

Well done sir. Great tactical acumen, paired with a beautifull army... A win in my books!

**racta**

Just wanted to drop in and say awesome post smitty. I thoroughly enjoy your battle reports and this is like the holy grail.
I miss the council on their marble bikes though!

**Smitty0305**

-666- wrote:Well done Smitty !!

: )

ty, glad ur following the reports!

**jy2**

Congrats on the tourney. You represented the space fairies well.

**Smitty0305**

Zid wrote:Gj smitty

thanks

Automatically Appended Next Post:

calypso2ts wrote:Nice job, although I might not qualify an Imperial Guard list as horrible when it makes it into the top 8 competitors. I also might not qualify Manticores as terrible or say getting seized on is stupid.

Also, you cannot pre-measure a tank shock - unlike normal movement. It even states on page 68 that "...you may attempt a Tank Shock instead of moving normally." It then describes exactly how you move for a Tank Shock - pivot, declare distance, drive. As soon as you measure your tanks movement, you are opting to move normally and cannot Tank Shock (or Ram for that matter).

About the imperial guard list being good or bad, in my opinion from what Ive read about guard (pretty extensive) and from what ive played against, this was an easier IG list. IMO it was an easier guard list because it lacked long range shooting, but against other MEQ armies that arnt eldar this list might be amazing, but in my opinion the lack of ranged shooting really benefited me.

Manticores - they are hit and miss, and this time the manticore was on fire. I dont think the manticore is a bad unit, I just think it isnt reliable.

I didnt pre-measure my tank shock, I measured my movement, and then I chose to take back that move (which the rulebook allows) and declare a tank shock instead of doing my normal move (which you quoted for me).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iago wrote:Well done sir. Great tactical acumen, paired with a beautifull army... A win in my books!

thanks

Automatically Appended Next Post:

racta wrote:Just wanted to drop in and say awesome post smitty. I thoroughly enjoy your battle reports and this is like the holy grail.
I miss the council on their marble bikes though!

Yea I still have the bikes, but GK's really make them hard to use with mindstrike missiles and grenades.

Might bring them to wargamescon.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:Congrats on the tourney. You represented the space fairies well.

I try lol

**Sekminara**

Great battle reports. Your tenacity when it comes to this massive project is inspiring. Keep up the good work.

That business with the tank-shocking is a little shady though. Even if your opponent did slip in a couple of less-than-honest moves himself. It was my understanding that you either declare a tank shock, or a move. Disallowing a player from measuring a move then declaring a tankshock.

I feel as if that would be the equivalent of measuring the "movement" of an unit to determine the range from its target to fire a weapon.