Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

From what I've heard, tyrannofex sounds like the kind of unit to pod in next to an isolated unit and shoot the bejessuses out of it with that rumoured 20 shot gun

Shep wrote:

HIVE TYRANT- until we see base cost and upgrade cost there isn't anything to talk about here. 18" synapse, nasty shadow of the warp, possible wings, possible drop pod, other psychic powers that we've only seen poorly translated explanations... Certainly some potential here.

The basic Hive Tyrant is around 130-140 points if I recall correctly.

LICTOR - A great many people want the arrival turn charge, but if a trade is necessary (and it is) then I take this new type of deployment over arrival assault in a heartbeat. When tied to area terrain as deployment, canny players would just fill every inch of area terrain near their deployment with models for an automatic deep strike mishap. Even if you managed to find a spot and land it, you were rewarded with a dangerous terrain check that could cost you half of your wounds.... If he keeps super-stealth, then being able to drop im, accident free behind a screened cover save, take some 2+ saves, then charge on the next turn sounds about right. And if you can take 3 in a brood then thats plenty of offensive capability for the slot.

As far as Iremember the lictor loses super stealth. Only rulebook stealth. And isn't bound to terrain. It's 65 points now and has his flesh hook shooting power. Hit and run is still in. The Death leaper is a bit more expensive ~150 I think but can just disappear when outside of 1" of enemies. And can "stalk" a single enemy model (chosen before game starts) that get a malus of -2 or -3 to LD. Funny other stuff, will definitely use it.

HORMAGAUNTS - yet another solid troops choice that I can't believe anyone would discount. Their interaction with hive tyrant powers, synapse, and their dirt cheapness, with access to a particularly devastating cc upgrade make them a very attractive option. I guess some nid players will understand fully when a 20 man hormagaunt unit with toxin sacs charges their freshly arrived trygon.

Combined with the "ancient enemy" skill of the hive tyrant (25p. I think), they can get nasty preferred enemy. And for 6 points are rather solid now imo.

SPORE MINES - Ok, the naked spore mines seem to be such an overlooked options, with massive potential. Deploying spore mines after deployment zones are chsoen but before deployment allows you to block off entire areas for models to set up. Sure they can shoot you once the game starts, but until the game starts I'm certain that they can't place any models on top of your mines. So 14 tank IG armies are going to have a really hard time finding good spots to set up their choo choo trains with tiny annoying models just sitting right where they want to be. And lootas are going to be really frustrated when the one or two place where they can deploy in cover are already occupied.

They are, I think 10 points each and you can field up to 9 in one FOS.

Harpy costs, I think, 145 points.

TRYGON - This guy seems good, very promising. Expensive, but enough wounds to justify it likely, a possible synergistic combo in the right army. But low strength. Balanced at first glance. Definitely the "look at me" unit in the book. Many will commit too much to their army being based on this guy.

Sure it's expensive for 200 points base, but with 6W I thought about giving it regeneration. With 3 or 4 dice, there can be some sixes (mhhh...lucky sixes).

BIOVORE - I'm not impressed, strength 4 ap 4? I guess its ok, I would hope that they would be indirect to cause pinning and to avoid screen cover, and they might be (can't see in the sheet). I think its a fine unit, but in a competitve slot.

They are freakin cheap however. three costing 75 points or somewhat like that. 3 S4 Ap4 large blast are not nice against hordes...

CARNIFEX - Ah yes, the other "unplayable" unit. 200 points gets you a monstrous creature in a drop pod, that has 5 re-rollable strength 9 (or strength 10 for a few points more) attacks. Look, I know you can get a trygon with deep strike for 200. But that deep strike does not come with mishap protection that the spore pod probably will, and most importantly, the trygon is looking at strength 6+2d6 to get inside that land raider. The amount of vehicle flipping that a fex can do is very intense. And there are some rumors of bio-plasma becoming a plasma cannon, the fex also has access to crushing claws. It is waaaay too early to call DOA on the fex. You have got to respect that strength 9/10, and his unique access to biomorphs that the trygon doesn't get, most importantly, the ability to purchase a drop pod.

Damn, I don't recall the stats for bio-plasma, but it was 12" and I remember being somewhat impressed after reading its description.

Hope that helped.

Greets
Schepp himself

Shep wrote:
HORMAGAUNTS - yet another solid troops choice that I can't believe anyone would discount. Their interaction with hive tyrant powers, synapse, and their dirt cheapness, with access to a particularly devastating cc upgrade make them a very attractive option. I guess some nid players will understand fully when a 20 man hormagaunt unit with toxin sacs charges their freshly arrived trygon.
TERMAGAUNTS - seems like a pretty lateral shift. one point cost decrease but a 6" range increase and a potential loss of living ammo don't give me any heart palpatations, either for or against.

Rumour has both units having lost fleet but Hormagaunts get to run faster. I am sitting here wondering if I should be putting Fleshborers or Talons on my Gaunt bodies? Is swapping the gun going to be worth an extra attack and re-rolling ones. Helps in a protracted combat. I expect we will have to wait for the Codex and peoples play style to know for sure...

Also Termagants allow you to take Tervigon as a Troop Unit. I can see being a scoring MC being even more useful than its ability to poop out extra gaunts. Tervigon also seem to be the replacement for Elite Dakkafexs. It seems most of our old Elite has moved to Troops to make room for new units.

If using the Tyrants Preferred Enemy then the Talons become even less useful as I do not think you can re-roll the dice twice. I am liking the idea of having a first wave of Gargoyles, followed by the Tyrants and finally Gaunts. Hive Guard and Zoanthropes give the army some range and the now really cheap Genestealers get to flank. Not sure I want any heavy units.

I believe the Hormies still have fleet and get "quick" which allows them to roll 3 dice to run (I believe 3, maybe 2)- they really become a major turn 2 assault threat if true.

Personally I can't wait... my all Genestealer & Spore mine army just became a HELL of a lot more dangerous. the possibility of putting close to 100 'stealers on the board, ALL DS/infiltrating? and still have room for a load of spore mines and some shooting? YES please!!! Hell, I'm even thinking of using the Alpha Warrior as my HQ and using the Inquisitor scale 'Stealer, or one of the old Patriarchs.

So far thinking this: a Alpha Warrior, max 'stealers (both troops and the Elites), spore mines and a Mawloc (maybe 2 if I can squeeze it in). Will some army shoot me to hell, sure- but the look of terror from a marine player at close to 100 genestealers running at him will be well worth

P.S.- since I lost my damn 4th ed. dex in the move, does anyone remember if Stealers get/still get the biomorph that would allow rending?

Genestealers have rending automatically because they come with rending claws in 4th ed.

Im excited about all the changes that are happening to the book but im wary of a few of the rumors if they turn out to be true then I feel it could unbalance a few things. Like the lifeleech rumor to me it seems a tad cheesy, if certain units can take it then they will become nigh indestructible I wouldnt want a tyrant just trundling back and forth sucking wounds out of enemies to survive a whole game it would be such a waste and would become infuriating for other players.

And the harpy a flying monstrous creature raining death down in the form of spore mines and spike shots seems cool but there comes a point when being able to blow the enemy to hell from above is a bit much. But honestly I have no idea if any of the rumors even have a grain of truth to them so we will all have to wait for the codex to see and to make our own judgements.

I can't see D3 S3 hits becoming game-breaking even if they do ignore armor. It's a decent/good power that I'll probably use, but it's not anywhere near broken. If you can use life leach in while in combat, assault armies without terminators will be hard-pressed to bring your Tyrant down, but a model that expensive should be a beast to get rid of.

Seriously, though, do you really care if your opponent freaks about your ~200 point model being hard to kill? Again, at that point cost, it had better be. There's also the fairly simple solution of just gunning the thing down in one turn. With all the melta and mobility around these days, that shouldn't be a terribly difficult task to accomplish.

edit: clarity

Like I said, the power isn't nearly destructive enough to make the critter immortal. Regenerate is still awful and no doubt overpriced because it can still only give back 1 wound a turn and then only on a 6. There is already plenty of firepower to take out monstrous creatures and a Hive Tyrant doing a zubat impression won't live much longer than one without.

I have 9 T6 3+ wounds to keep my tyrant safe.

If Tyrant Guard retain "living wall" and don't count as MC's then there will be lots of screens and lots of cover to make those 9 wounds hard to take off.

If rumor is true about 5+ invul as standard on Tyrant (and right now there is conflict as to wether or not Tyrant gets it) that will also help him shake off the occasional melta/las/plasma wound.

Railguns wrote:Like I said, the power isn't nearly destructive enough to make the critter immortal. Regenerate is still awful and no doubt overpriced because it can still only give back 1 wound a turn and then only on a 6. There is already plenty of firepower to take out monstrous creatures and a Hive Tyrant doing a zubat impression won't live much longer than one without.

Who said that the regeneration rule is still like that?

Greets
Schepp himself

Well these are awesome i keep hearing conflicting rumours about what gets what and what it does but i am going to find out soon^^
way it looks i may go for a mix for most stufff as i hate spaming stuff i don't what 3 trygons even if there super hard i get one and one mawloc and 3 fexs probs
one qusetion if the drop pod thing can only conitan 1 MC does that mean fexs have to go in ones or not pod????

Fateweaver wrote:Updated by Original Poster on Seer and translated. Note that Carnis ARE indeed S9 so we can all quit crying now. Cleaned up by yours truly.

Regeneration:
At the start of each turn the model recovers a wound on a 6.

I wonder what those sting blasters are supposed to be.

oldone wrote:Well these are awesome i keep hearing conflicting rumours about what gets what and what it does but i am going to find out soon^^
way it looks i may go for a mix for most stufff as i hate spaming stuff i don't what 3 trygons even if there super hard i get one and one mawloc and 3 fexs probs
one qusetion if the drop pod thing can only conitan 1 MC does that mean fexs have to go in ones or not pod????

Kudos for not spamming stuff.

If your Carnifex brood contains one (1) carnifex, then it can use a spore pod. So a max of 3 dropping carnifexes then your heavies are full.

Greets
Schepp himself


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Railguns wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:Updated by Original Poster on Seer and translated. Note that Carnis ARE indeed S9 so we can all quit crying now. Cleaned up by yours truly.

Regeneration:
At the start of each turn the model recovers a wound on a 6.

I wonder what those sting blasters are supposed to be.

Mh...I read that for each wound previously lost in the game you roll a D6 and for every 6 that shows up you get a wound back.

Conflicting sources maybe? But I've seen it in the printed out codex. Maybe the translation was fishy.

Greets
Schepp himself

If it were a dice for each lost wound, it would be better. But still, the max you would be able to roll would be 3 dice before the creature was just flat out killed, so even then I wonder how often it would turn over an extra wound.

Is there any credence to the rumor that the character Zoanthrope that can give itself extra wounds by blowing away enemy models has to spend 3 wounds to actually fire the power each turn? If that were true, and your opponent managed to take it to 3 or less wounds before it fired, it would never get to fire. Sounds like a risky investment if there were any.

Sting blaster could be the Spike Rifle.

The sting blaster looks like the worst weapon in the list whose only saving grace is S5, but at one shot, no ap and 12" range you have to wonder just what model this thing is supposed to be mounted on. If anything, the spike rifle should be the relatively long range with better ap weapon of the gaunt armory.

Has anyone else noticed that the Devourer didn't just get nerfed, but made into a near useless little peashooter? 2 shots at S3 and no ap? Are they really that pissed that people actually used devourers in 4th? Did it honestly deserve such obviously hateful treatment?


Edit: Sorry, ap6. Big difference....

Regen now wouldn't be so horrible if it didn't cost 30pts. For a 1 in 6 chance per wound it should be at most 10 pts.

Hope it's a little more sensibly priced in the new dex.

Considering what I've heard about the unit pricing in the book, GW seems to think that Tyranid monstrous creatures should cost as much as Land Raiders and Monoliths. It doesn't bode well for biomorph pricing.

BrookM wrote:Sting blaster could be the Spike Rifle.

Statwise that sounds like the flesh-hook gun the lictor uses. But, as I said previously, I think it has S6 and assault 2.

Regeneration is 25 points for anyone I think. Oh, and wings are 60 or 65 for tyrants.

Greets
Schepp himself

Good freaking lord. ~65 point wings? Wow. That's so comically overpriced it's almost tragic.
At that cost I'm surprised they aren't trying to sell mycetic spore pod models now that wings cost almost as much as a current base carnifex.

According to someone on Warpshadow, the Deathspitter isn't an S5 AP5 blast but a S5 AP5 Assault 3 gun. :( I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but that's kinda disappointing.

Re: Raveners, they're not bad vs. MEq kitted out with ST/RC and poison. That's hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s, then wounding on 4s, rerolling failed wounds...with rending. Not bad.

Disregard

A blast weapon that's been a blast weapon as long as it has has existed (AFAIK) suddenly becoming a 3 shot gun for no reason at all? That's either an Arby or bunk.

It sounds like the pendulum has swung rather hard on our MC's. Carnifexes were a little undercosted, but putting them at 170, base, is a bit absurd. 60+ points for wings? I thought they were too expensive at 40. The other things sound overcosted, too. Oh well, good thing I prefer running a swarm army studded with a couple big'uns.

The deathspitter statline is a bit disappointing, but I figured they weren't going to allow units of S6 blasts any longer. To me, the most disappointing part about the change is the range reduction. The extra 6" make a big difference. The loss of horde control resulting from the blast-->3 shots is annoying, but it sounds like offing weak stuff is cake for Tyranids now. The extra shots give us a bit of desperation coverage against really light vehicles, so I'll grudgingly call it an effective wash, given that the strength reduction was inevitable.


I agree about the Raveners. They sound pretty nasty if kitted out properly. Warriors might be similarly tough.

One thing I'd really like to know is the points costs on Rippers. I've always wanted them to be good. Swarms are just awesome. Rumors that they're "not very expensive" and that they can Deep Strike are very interesting, indeed. So what constitutes "not expensive?" 8 points? 7? Less? If they're that cheap, it'll be really tough for me to resist taking a whole bunch of them and dropping them on my opponent. Yeah, they die like crazy without the no ID thing, but big blasts can only take care of so much. If nothing else, they'd be a great tarpit while the rest of your army closed in. If they're still up at the 10 point mark, I don't see any scenario in which taking 2 Hormagaunts instead would not be better.

Schepp himself wrote:Regeneration is 25 points for anyone I think. Oh, and wings are 60 or 65 for tyrants.

Wow, that is like a squad of Gaunts.
I feel bad now about the amount of time I spent making my Tyrants wings and probably never getting to use them...

Any ideas on how much the new Acid Blood or Toxic Miasma costs? I really like the idea of slapping those on the Tyrant.

Railguns wrote:A blast weapon that's been a blast weapon as long as it has has existed (AFAIK) suddenly becoming a 3 shot gun for no reason at all? That's either an Arby or bunk,

When the Eldar moved away from Plasma Cannons, they got 3-shot guns.

uggghhhhh, well there goes my warrior setup. in some cases i'm sure its better, but i like scattering :(

Fetterkey wrote:An Inquisitor with Mystics seems like he would block many of these tricks.

Yep, as well as many "tricks" from other armies as well. It's why I hope that inquisition gets a new codex, and the ability to hand out a inquisitor and pair of mystics to every Lieutenant with 2 lasguns to point at a bad guy, hopefully will go away. Out of the last 6 games I played against Imperial armies, only one wasn't made into an inquisitional force by the addition of those guys.

Schepp himself wrote:

Railguns wrote:

Regeneration:
At the start of each turn the model recovers a wound on a 6.

Mh...I read that for each wound previously lost in the game you roll a D6 and for every 6 that shows up you get a wound back.

Conflicting sources maybe? But I've seen it in the printed out codex. Maybe the translation was fishy.

Greets
Schepp himself

For those of us with a 4rth ed codex , regeneration currently works as follows: at the start of each turn, a model with regeneration rolls a D6 for each wound currently lost. For each 6 rolled, the model recovers a wound up to its starting number. It is currently 30 pts.

Can't say that it is a popular choice now, when we currently have 5 wound carnies, so I am not sure how popular this is going to be. Never know though *shrugs*.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Railguns wrote:Good freaking lord. ~65 point wings? Wow. That's so comically overpriced it's almost tragic.
At that cost I'm surprised they aren't trying to sell mycetic spore pod models now that wings cost almost as much as a current base carnifex.

Not really suprised as that is roughly what it costs for Deamon princes in C. Of course thier MC come with invulnerable saves, EW, super high WS .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Railguns wrote:Has anyone else noticed that the Devourer didn't just get nerfed, but made into a near useless little peashooter? 2 shots at S3 and no ap? Are they really that pissed that people actually used devourers in 4th? Did it honestly deserve such obviously hateful treatment?


Edit: Sorry, ap6. Big difference....

Well, DS on naked guants were str 2 (3 with TS), 2 shots, and AP -. Though they did get living ammo and 18" range. Depends on the range and cost really. Also if poisoned is a cheap upgrade...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gorgon wrote:According to someone on Warpshadow, the Deathspitter isn't an S5 AP5 blast but a S5 AP5 Assault 3 gun. :( I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but that's kinda disappointing.

Well depending on range and cost, this looks like a pretty big nerf as currently the 3" blast usually nets 3 hits, has strength 6 (wounding on 2's against most troops), and AP 4. I was really hoping that the "venom cannon" was replacing the deathspitter entry as the stats were fairly comparable. Still, I am hoping this is a gack rumor.

getting rid of dakka fexs and devil tyrants is like getting rid of termicide units. they are not the most fluffy setups, but they are extremely useful.

anyways, so about the trevigon. do you think you will specifically have to take termagaunts to allow the tevigon to be a troop choice? or could one use spine gaunts or any other variation?

Shoot- with the buffs to spinefists, I bet Spinegaunts will be more expensive than fleshborer termagants. I may have to rip up about 6 of the little buggers... or just get some scytal bitz online and go for an all-hormagaunt force.

This shakeup is both exciting and annoying. It is also the best argument I've ever seen that one should MAGNETIZE EVERYTHING.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, anyone seen whether Genestealers will have any mutable-genus mods, like feeder tentacles etc.? I know the Ymgarl variant is it's own thing- I'm just wondering if it's safe to start building up a bunch before the codex comes out. I want those Chapterhouse heads!