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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/10 11:14:49
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with W.I.P stuff..... and a Helmet
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Thanks guys, good ideas! the pipes are where the tile would sit so the recess is only a few mil, I did originally want to have the floors with space under to run pipes and gubbins but trying to factor in cost for a board and ease of working etc. I decided to go with the wood tiles and see if i can get the appearance of depth with the pipes like i'm working on :-) I will certainly put some scattered near by! that's a great idea and will look sweet!
Ghosted litany on a candy red Flesh eater Helmet! omg! perfectly brilliant :-)
Got all of Gits Grots finished today! but I didn't have time to take pics yet :-( sorry guys! but tomorrow it means i can take some and you can see them tomorrow night eh! there's one or two or three I really like so i might take a couple of individual shots of those ones and hide the crappy ones at the back of the group shot lol!
and on a side note! Eggroll!!!! you're back dude! great to see you :-) we;ve missed you!
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Flesh Eaters 4,500 points
" I will constantly have those in my head telling me how lazy and ugly and whorish I am. You sir, are a true friend " - KingCracker
"Nah, I'm just way too lazy to stand up so I keep sitting and paint" - Sigur
"I think the NMM technique with metals is just MNMM. Same sound I make while eating a good pizza" - Whalemusic360 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/10 13:48:20
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with W.I.P stuff..... and a Helmet
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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wow, I go away for a few days and you get busy! I like the Techmarine, though the new ones with all of the arms seem a bit unwieldy to me.
The expression on the face of Lemartes is amazing! Can you remind me where you picked up those heads? (Thanks!)
I am really looking forward to seeing how you do with tht new ZM piece, I have a bunch of cardboard, foamcore and plastic sheetstock I am sitting on, waiting for inspiration...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 01:51:21
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with W.I.P stuff..... and a Helmet
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Omnious Orc Shaman
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away...
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ZM looking cool, only part that I can't stop seeing is the jigsaw style fit on the board tiles, shame you couldn't have that hidden some how - maybe under riveted strips?
Helmet is way cool - must have been cold though as there is serious nipple action going on
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 03:43:13
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with W.I.P stuff..... and a Helmet
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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hdbbstephen wrote:wow, I go away for a few days and you get busy! I like the Techmarine, though the new ones with all of the arms seem a bit unwieldy to me.
The expression on the face of Lemartes is amazing! Can you remind me where you picked up those heads? (Thanks!)
I am really looking forward to seeing how you do with tht new ZM piece, I have a bunch of cardboard, foamcore and plastic sheetstock I am sitting on, waiting for inspiration...
thanks dude, the heads are a bare head from the new Night Lords squad for Dante, and the Chaplain one is from the Sons of Horus legion Command kit  I got mine from ebay, I hope they'll be able to team up on the ZM on day!
Ruglud wrote:ZM looking cool, only part that I can't stop seeing is the jigsaw style fit on the board tiles, shame you couldn't have that hidden some how - maybe under riveted strips?
Helmet is way cool - must have been cold though as there is serious nipple action going on 
I know, the jigsaw fit isn't great for everyone, but it does have the advantage of being very easy to assemble so everything's fitting together well!  I'm thinking paint will stop it being so visable or i'll have enough going on for it not to bother the eye.
it IS a cool helmet! and nope it wasn't cold  unfortunate legacy of having large bolts through my nipples years ago!
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Flesh Eaters 4,500 points
" I will constantly have those in my head telling me how lazy and ugly and whorish I am. You sir, are a true friend " - KingCracker
"Nah, I'm just way too lazy to stand up so I keep sitting and paint" - Sigur
"I think the NMM technique with metals is just MNMM. Same sound I make while eating a good pizza" - Whalemusic360 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 05:29:40
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with W.I.P stuff..... and a Helmet
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Mounted Kroot Tracker
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Bump. Look here cuz damo is a bad a$$. >_>much love.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 05:32:13
Subject: Re:Nerdfest09's Blog now with W.I.P stuff..... and a Helmet
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Flesh Eaters 4,500 points
" I will constantly have those in my head telling me how lazy and ugly and whorish I am. You sir, are a true friend " - KingCracker
"Nah, I'm just way too lazy to stand up so I keep sitting and paint" - Sigur
"I think the NMM technique with metals is just MNMM. Same sound I make while eating a good pizza" - Whalemusic360 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 05:34:11
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Mounted Kroot Tracker
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I was bumping for support now I comment out out of truth. My best friends bachelor party is now and I'm jealous of your bad assery with the brush! Amazing grots,....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 05:47:41
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Fixture of Dakka
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Those wee grots are fantastic looking Damo. Your Ork skin tones are just amazing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 05:48:49
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Smashing good work on those grots Damo. So much grotty goodness!
Love those chain axes... rip your heart out man. Why mess with a sword when you can have a mass weapon? Swords are for panzy elves.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 09:43:11
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with W.I.P stuff..... and a Helmet
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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nerdfest09 wrote:Thanks guys, good ideas! the pipes are where the tile would sit so the recess is only a few mil, I did originally want to have the floors with space under to run pipes and gubbins but trying to factor in cost for a board and ease of working etc. I decided to go with the wood tiles and see if i can get the appearance of depth with the pipes like i'm working on :-) I will certainly put some scattered near by! that's a great idea and will look sweet!
Ghosted litany on a candy red Flesh eater Helmet! omg! perfectly brilliant :-)
Got all of Gits Grots finished today! but I didn't have time to take pics yet :-( sorry guys! but tomorrow it means i can take some and you can see them tomorrow night eh! there's one or two or three I really like so i might take a couple of individual shots of those ones and hide the crappy ones at the back of the group shot lol!
and on a side note! Eggroll!!!! you're back dude! great to see you :-) we;ve missed you!
Thanks! It's good to be back and painting again. Looks like you and Gits have been busy while I was away...got lots of catching up to and both of your have improved considerably. Looking forward to seeing great stuff from the both of you this year
Grots look great by the way, love the paintjob and the models...they just have so much character!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/11 09:44:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 09:47:24
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!
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Dem grots. Love the noses in particular - nice touch.
And FW chainaxe. Says it all
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My P&M blog
DC:90S++G+++M+B+IPw40k04#+D+A+++/cWD241R++T(T)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 13:21:38
Subject: Re:Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Holy moly Damo how do you have time for life with as much quality painting you pump out? And now you need the rest of that armor to complete the helmet you've got. Total bad ass right there
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 03:06:34
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Dakka Veteran
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mate the helmet looks fantastic. great action photo too.
the grots though - that's the money! i love em. so much character mate. great blending but more importantly a great selection of colours. i think my favorite is the bandito guy with two hand guns.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 05:54:15
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne
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The Grots look great, Damo. The assault marines/Vanguard models look the part as well. Getting ready for their descent into full-bodied Khrne worship...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 08:35:07
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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bebopdrums2424 wrote:I was bumping for support now I comment out out of truth. My best friends bachelor party is now and I'm jealous of your bad assery with the brush! Amazing grots,.... 
Thanks chadlance!  hope your bach party went well and you've still got fully functioning apendages (fingers man, fingers!)
Snrub wrote:Those wee grots are fantastic looking Damo. Your Ork skin tones are just amazing.
Glad you like them, and that skin is easy man, easy!  mind it's easier on bigger Orks!
Gitsplitta wrote:Smashing good work on those grots Damo. So much grotty goodness!
Love those chain axes... rip your heart out man. Why mess with a sword when you can have a mass weapon? Swords are for panzy elves.
Phew! again I'm pleased they passed muster!  and I am now a massive fan of Chain Axes after getting my grubby fingers on them! they look so nasty!
Eggroll wrote: nerdfest09 wrote:Thanks guys, good ideas! the pipes are where the tile would sit so the recess is only a few mil, I did originally want to have the floors with space under to run pipes and gubbins but trying to factor in cost for a board and ease of working etc. I decided to go with the wood tiles and see if i can get the appearance of depth with the pipes like i'm working on :-) I will certainly put some scattered near by! that's a great idea and will look sweet!
Ghosted litany on a candy red Flesh eater Helmet! omg! perfectly brilliant :-)
Got all of Gits Grots finished today! but I didn't have time to take pics yet :-( sorry guys! but tomorrow it means i can take some and you can see them tomorrow night eh! there's one or two or three I really like so i might take a couple of individual shots of those ones and hide the crappy ones at the back of the group shot lol!
and on a side note! Eggroll!!!! you're back dude! great to see you :-) we;ve missed you!
Thanks! It's good to be back and painting again. Looks like you and Gits have been busy while I was away...got lots of catching up to and both of your have improved considerably. Looking forward to seeing great stuff from the both of you this year
Grots look great by the way, love the paintjob and the models...they just have so much character!
Yeah man, busy painting and I'm stoked you think i've improved!  that's good to hear from you! happy to have you back potentially bringing us more models to cry over and want to crush our own  .... I won't but you ARE good!
Brother Payne wrote:Dem grots. Love the noses in particular - nice touch.
And FW chainaxe. Says it all 
thanks Brother, the noses are just a little subtlety to give 'em some character! not that need much more
KingCracker wrote:Holy moly Damo how do you have time for life with as much quality painting you pump out? And now you need the rest of that armor to complete the helmet you've got. Total bad ass right there
Life? wtf? eh isn't painting models life?  and you better remember that helmet! one day I might show up looking through your lounge window in it! ........... yes.........just the helmet!
San76 wrote:mate the helmet looks fantastic. great action photo too.
the grots though - that's the money! i love em. so much character mate. great blending but more importantly a great selection of colours. i think my favorite is the bandito guy with two hand guns.
Thanks San, i'd like to see what you do with something like them one day? they really are fun to paint, my favorite is the guy with the head cloth and the two hand guns guy!
Azazelx wrote:The Grots look great, Damo. The assault marines/Vanguard models look the part as well. Getting ready for their descent into full-bodied Khrne worship...
Thanks a bunch Az  although you may wash your mouth out for even suggesting that my boys will descent into Khorne worship!  we are loyal all the way..... at the moment
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Flesh Eaters 4,500 points
" I will constantly have those in my head telling me how lazy and ugly and whorish I am. You sir, are a true friend " - KingCracker
"Nah, I'm just way too lazy to stand up so I keep sitting and paint" - Sigur
"I think the NMM technique with metals is just MNMM. Same sound I make while eating a good pizza" - Whalemusic360 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 11:32:17
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne
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nerdfest09 wrote:
Azazelx wrote:The Grots look great, Damo. The assault marines/Vanguard models look the part as well. Getting ready for their descent into full-bodied Khrne worship...
Thanks a bunch Az  although you may wash your mouth out for even suggesting that my boys will descent into Khorne worship!  we are loyal all the way..... at the moment
Pride begets Heresy. my friend...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 13:11:53
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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nerdfest09 wrote:
KingCracker wrote:Holy moly Damo how do you have time for life with as much quality painting you pump out? And now you need the rest of that armor to complete the helmet you've got. Total bad ass right there
Life? wtf? eh isn't painting models life?  and you better remember that helmet! one day I might show up looking through your lounge window in it! ........... yes.........just the helmet!
I think we just stumbled on the new 3rd prize photo for your next comp
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 13:28:39
Subject: Re:Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Gargantuan Great Squiggoth
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Bit late to the party here ( been lurking) , but thought I would add, I am on my 4th set of these grots, they are just the most wonderful little guys. And several are ripe for conversion. You again have done amazing work on them though, I have been feebley trying to emulate your tones, (I am still  at it though.)
More please.
Oh and totally with King.....definately the next 3rd prize right there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 22:37:36
Subject: Re:Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Yea Grots are one of my fave things to convert and paintfor that very reason
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 00:37:52
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
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Azazelx wrote: nerdfest09 wrote:
Azazelx wrote:The Grots look great, Damo. The assault marines/Vanguard models look the part as well. Getting ready for their descent into full-bodied Khrne worship...
Thanks a bunch Az  although you may wash your mouth out for even suggesting that my boys will descent into Khorne worship!  we are loyal all the way..... at the moment
Pride begets Heresy. my friend...

And heresy ruins your face
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LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 09:19:40
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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The Grots look brilliant, love the Orky skin tones you do!
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Iron Lords
For The Emperor!
Tau
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Dark Eldar |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 09:35:03
Subject: Re:Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Lady of the Lake
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Did I hear Grots? I only see Greats.
I'll go throw myself into the fire for that one...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 13:39:24
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Azazelx wrote: nerdfest09 wrote:
Azazelx wrote:The Grots look great, Damo. The assault marines/Vanguard models look the part as well. Getting ready for their descent into full-bodied Khrne worship...
Thanks a bunch Az  although you may wash your mouth out for even suggesting that my boys will descent into Khorne worship!  we are loyal all the way..... at the moment
Pride begets Heresy. my friend...

Oh the thought of those boys did cross my mind!  but I think I'll grab some Red Butchers instead! at least they don't appear to have melted cheese faces!  I have considered buying those bare heads but I really don't know if I can paint them up so I like them! although they do have rather large...... Axes!
KingCracker wrote: nerdfest09 wrote:
KingCracker wrote:Holy moly Damo how do you have time for life with as much quality painting you pump out? And now you need the rest of that armor to complete the helmet you've got. Total bad ass right there
Life? wtf? eh isn't painting models life?  and you better remember that helmet! one day I might show up looking through your lounge window in it! ........... yes.........just the helmet!
I think we just stumbled on the new 3rd prize photo for your next comp
 Done! dunno how I'm going to get that shot! but 3rd prize shall now be a pic of a Peeping Nerd in Nude!
Camkierhi wrote:Bit late to the party here ( been lurking) , but thought I would add, I am on my 4th set of these grots, they are just the most wonderful little guys. And several are ripe for conversion. You again have done amazing work on them though, I have been feebley trying to emulate your tones, (I am still  at it though.)
More please.
Oh and totally with King.....definately the next 3rd prize right there.
Cam, I have taken the 3rd prize suggestion and accepted it as gospel!  and if you want me to do you a step by step of the skin? I can do that too, it's not hard really truly, just need watered paint and a can do attitude!
Theophony wrote: Azazelx wrote: nerdfest09 wrote:
Azazelx wrote:The Grots look great, Damo. The assault marines/Vanguard models look the part as well. Getting ready for their descent into full-bodied Khrne worship...
Thanks a bunch Az  although you may wash your mouth out for even suggesting that my boys will descent into Khorne worship!  we are loyal all the way..... at the moment
Pride begets Heresy. my friend...

And heresy ruins your face
 how true theo...... how true especially not a good thing for the sons of Sanguinius!
HoeJarris wrote:The Grots look brilliant, love the Orky skin tones you do!
Thanks Hoe appreciate it mate!
n0t_u wrote:Did I hear Grots? I only see Greats.
I'll go throw myself into the fire for that one...
Lol, Oh dude that at first made me go "Oh Pshawwww, be away with you"  then I just though " Oh dear god, this guys a friend!?"  ..... but thank you nOt_u I appreciate the positive feedback!
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Flesh Eaters 4,500 points
" I will constantly have those in my head telling me how lazy and ugly and whorish I am. You sir, are a true friend " - KingCracker
"Nah, I'm just way too lazy to stand up so I keep sitting and paint" - Sigur
"I think the NMM technique with metals is just MNMM. Same sound I make while eating a good pizza" - Whalemusic360 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 16:40:15
Subject: Re:Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Gargantuan Great Squiggoth
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I think I speak for many, that if you could do a small tutorial on that ork flesh, it would be very gratefully recieved. (see what I mean about karma)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 17:04:25
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Mastering Non-Metallic Metal
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As I approach the time that I will be painting my first Ork, I will second that.
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Mastodon: @DrH@dice.camp
The army- ~2295 points (built).
* -=]_,=-eague Spruemeister General. * A (sprue) Hut tutorial *
Dsteingass - Dr. H..You are a role model for Internet Morality! // inmygravenimage - Dr H is a model to us all
Theophony - Sprue for the spruemeister, plastic for his plastic throne! // Shasolenzabi - Toilets, more complex than folks take time to think about! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 17:15:21
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Alright, I will indeed do a tute on how I do the Ork skin for you :-) how's Friday sound? and how would you like it? pics of the paint colours and step by step mixing or a few progress pics and words to copy paste? I'm sure I've some Orks by Mantic or even a spare jet pilot head at home :-)
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Flesh Eaters 4,500 points
" I will constantly have those in my head telling me how lazy and ugly and whorish I am. You sir, are a true friend " - KingCracker
"Nah, I'm just way too lazy to stand up so I keep sitting and paint" - Sigur
"I think the NMM technique with metals is just MNMM. Same sound I make while eating a good pizza" - Whalemusic360 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 18:10:30
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Mastering Non-Metallic Metal
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Personally, I would like to see the colours of the paints so I can match them to what I use.
The more detail, the better too.
Pretty please, with a little red helmet on top...
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Mastodon: @DrH@dice.camp
The army- ~2295 points (built).
* -=]_,=-eague Spruemeister General. * A (sprue) Hut tutorial *
Dsteingass - Dr. H..You are a role model for Internet Morality! // inmygravenimage - Dr H is a model to us all
Theophony - Sprue for the spruemeister, plastic for his plastic throne! // Shasolenzabi - Toilets, more complex than folks take time to think about! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 12:22:06
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Those Grots are just short of perfect ! I just love them ! And agreed for the chainaxes... You can never have enough !
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My WiP -affiliated Traitors - War on Tranch : Renegades
The World Tree's offsprings - Various WIPs : Skavens, Tzeentch & Nurgle CSMs, Marine Swap
My first tutorial - Object Source Lighting
What will I achieve in 7 months? : Radio Omid is online
"Squat Hulk- in space no one knows you no longer exist." - Gitzbitah
"Now you're just being silly, everyone knows red paint tastes fasta." - monkeytroll
"Both servers are on different continents so space meteors or thermonuclear war will not be enough take out dakka hopefully." - legoburner
Please remember to tick the "Disable Voting" box, if the pics you are uploading do not deserve votes (ie. early WIP, blurry pics, batreps, ...) Thanks in advance. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/17 08:13:08
Subject: Re:Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Hey guys!
Got some pics for you today! hope you like what i managed to get done considering how bloody quickly my paint kept drying on my palette I don't think i did too badly  mind you I really only got one model finished, the Guardsman for Bebopdrums painting comp, but I assembled, primed base coated, salt weathered (for the first time) 3 Killa Kans for Gits  and finished assembling my lemartes conversion which looks good now after I cut and re positioned his arms again so he looks a little more dynamic!
well, first things first eh! lets have a look at the Guardsman, I wanted to give him the visage of a Penal legion trooper, condemned and in worn or second hand armour and jumpsuit, and i did try eyes too, I won't make a habit of it but I found if you want to give them an iris colour you still paint the black 'pupil' first and then the colour in the middle of that instead of the other way around in real lfe, it's a bit hard to see in the pics but trust me it's there
Well after that I sat back and wanted to fix my Lemartes conversion so I chopped his wrists and just moved them slightly so he looks cooler, not much to see yet but does he 'flow' well enough now? !
and now onto Gits Kans *Snicker...* I didn't expect to get this far with them today, I just wanted to assemble them so i can get stuck into them for painting next time, what i managed to do was assemble them, then prime and base coat the rusty look,I usually get my mask fluid onto things like this but I was out!!  what to do! ........... Oh Salt weathering from the FW books of course!  first time trying it lets hope it works guys! i've re primed over it and it's stayed so far
here's the Kans assembled and primed brown, then overbrushed with metals and orange rust.
Then a bunch of hairspray (thanks Nerdwench!) and a liberal sprinkle of rough salt.
then once dry, I primed again with desert brown and used the airbrush to give them a squirt of yellow to highlight and darkened it from below for some shading, I think they look pretty cool  I'll do the same techniques I used on the Deff Dread so they all match in together  hope you likey likey!
There we go for another day! hope you aren't all frozen or melted depending from whence you hail!  catch you soon i'm off to have a refreshing beverage and watch a movie!
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Flesh Eaters 4,500 points
" I will constantly have those in my head telling me how lazy and ugly and whorish I am. You sir, are a true friend " - KingCracker
"Nah, I'm just way too lazy to stand up so I keep sitting and paint" - Sigur
"I think the NMM technique with metals is just MNMM. Same sound I make while eating a good pizza" - Whalemusic360 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/17 12:00:02
Subject: Nerdfest09's Blog now with Grots, that's right people! GROTS!
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Mastering Non-Metallic Metal
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Good job, NF. The guardsman looks great and good start on the kans.
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