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Bad Luck Would 6 trukks and 5 burnas in each be codex legal? I can't remember off the top of my head. If so i think that would be a solution to the battlewagons getting blitzed.
(Obviously 3 trukks and 5 if not double FOC, or 3 and 7 etc)

You'd need some unit sto give up those trukks as well.

Burnas don't get their own rides.

 Ascalam wrote:
You'd need some unit sto give up those trukks as well.

Burnas don't get their own rides.

*grumbles* don't even get me started here ...

I feel ya, bruvva

Looted Wagons just don't cut it

Actually, I do believe that (transport) looted wagons would be all over the place if they could be taken as dedicated transports. Those skorchas you can put on them are quite sexy.

True enough.

But wasting HS slots on them as rides irks me.

The same way they have FlashGitz in HS annoys me. Our dex is truly a great dex, as time has shown, but there are still a couple things in it that leave me scratching my head. Id definitely use looted wagons for dedicated transports if I could stick the skorcha on them. Thatd be badass

Quick query: All sang guard, death company BA list. Using a gunline and 6th, anything I should be careful about?

 the_ferrett wrote:
Quick query: All sang guard, death company BA list. Using a gunline and 6th, anything I should be careful about?

Avoiding CC?

Pretty much. Also, shooting black over golden marines, as 3+/FNP is no longer as good as 2+ armor. Getting a unit of boyz joined by a warboss in combat with the sanguine guard might also help, because only one of the PKs can be challenged.

Ayup. So either use the nob to take the challenge, and let the boss smash face, or let the boss suck up the wounds and the nob wreck face. You win either way

I love the idea of the looted wagon. I'm taking one to get a bunch of 'ard boyz into the grit, while I give their trukk to some burnas. I agree hardily that looted wagons should be allowed as transports... maybe just for elites (and flash glitz). I can understand not giving lootas and burnas their own ride tho... bit of an auto-deathstar there.

I remember playing in a tournament against an opponent with 15 sang guard, i had a big mek with SAG, and 2 10 man nob squads with big choppas all round as well as a load of other stuff. That was fun.
Turn one, 7 Sang get smashed by SAG template, their turn, they fall short of assaulting my nobz. My turn 2, 3 Sang and Gabriel Seth wiped by template from SAG. 20 Nobz smash the sanguinor and 5 sangs face He then conceded. Great game (Remember SAG is AP2 template, if you dont roll doubles but roll average its awesome, because its S6 AP2)

 the_ferrett wrote:
Quick query: All sang guard, death company BA list. Using a gunline and 6th, anything I should be careful about?

Are the BA backed up by a gunline if so what units? (I have been seeing IG gunlines with BA allies recently) or were you getting at that you play a gun line ork army?


In any case, shoot the DC to smither-reens. Like others have said 3+ and FNP < 2+... If you have MANZ, nob bikers, KMB's, flash gits etc those I would shoot at the sang guard. I feel like a unit of manz could probably do well against sang guard, and biker nobs probably more so with cybork/FNP... (assuming that sang guard weapons can be either S= user AP3 or S+2 AP2 unwieldly).. send your MANZ if ya got em @ the AP3 sword guard and bikes @ the ap2 axe/fist heavy squads? (Manz/PK bikers etc are nice vs DC as well because S x 2 > T disallowing FNP... just be wary of getting stuck in combat for multiple turns with them being fearless, I'd say don't charge them outright, only charge them to deprive them +2a charge after softening em up with lootas/shoota boys I'd say... if they are rolling around in a LR you might be able to bait them out for a juicy charge into the boyz (just be sure the boys are a good 20" from their LR with some cover between the 2 of you so they are trying to make a 8" charge on 3d6 picking lowest... sometimes enough to make them take bait, fail charge and die in open... and if not... they most likely wipe boys (if have a few DC at least with reclusiarch) if given the charge, then be standing out in the open on your turn to be shot to bits. IDK... just advice from my exp =]

If he is playing a DOA style/crossing field with jump packs list w/o transports and doesn't have a gun line, you won't really need to bring the fight to him as much (aside from sending some units to camp obj on his side/score linebreaker), as intercepting the units crossing board/killing them while protecting your loota's/kannons/looted wagon/ADL + quad gun+ grots gun line or what have you?

Just be wary of sending all your heavy hitters to his deployment zone if he is deep striking his DC/some sang guard. Don't want to leave your lootas and grots etc to be fed to wolves.

Looted wagons nice VS dc (s8 ap3 deny FNP), SAG big mek like others have suggested for sang guard

good luck! get some blood for da orks!

2 Dakkajets on a waagh would mess up a 30 man death company squad as well as your average loota fire.

 Orkaswampa wrote:
2 Dakkajets on a waagh would mess up a 30 man death company squad as well as your average loota fire.

That does break FNP or armour. You would be better off with st8 ap3 rockets and using the fire power against mech.

Yes, it wont ignore armor, but with that many shots the marines would lose FAR more to just failing saves then hitting with a couple rokkits. Sure a rokkit can KO a MEQ, but the problem is getting 1 rokkit to actually hit, compared to a handful of dice from guns that dont ignore armor. Do the math, or have someone do it, youll learn very quickly that bigshootas or anything better (IE Suppa shootas or deffguns) will bust MEQ teeth in better.

The Good Green wrote:I love the idea of the looted wagon. I'm taking one to get a bunch of 'ard boyz into the grit, while I give their trukk to some burnas. I agree hardily that looted wagons should be allowed as transports... maybe just for elites (and flash glitz). I can understand not giving lootas and burnas their own ride tho... bit of an auto-deathstar there.

Why? It's no more or less an auto-deathstar than Sternguard(or equivalent) in Rhino, Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent or Ogryns in a Chimera. I don't see why orks shouldn't have that if everyone but orks can get dedicated transports for almost every single unit entry. It's not like the looted wagon is better than other default transports.

Orkaswampa wrote:2 Dakkajets on a waagh would mess up a 30 man death company squad as well as your average loota fire.

Lootaz are really terrible at killing MEQ though, even more so at killing FNP MEQ. Rather aim them at the sanguine guard, as those usually cost more points and so you kill more point on average then when aiming at the DC. Always depends on what either unit is doing at the moment though.

Using the Waagh! to counter-charge the DC is also a very good idea, as you deny them both FC and Rage that way.

Death Company are terrifying. First game 6th ed I encountered them, my had flamers, so my assaulting orks never made it into combat. From then on, I ignored 'em and won the game on Secondary Objectives.

Second game (1000pts), I just focus fired everything at the units that WEREN'T DC, then kept back and allowed my Dakka Jet and my Kanz to whittle them away. and drove my Burna Wagon up to them to burninate 'em. None of this wiped the squad, but it did enough damage to reduce their numbers, and keep them tied up (they assaulted the BW, which I expected and planned for, and got Overwatch'd), to the point where my opponent simply couldn't win. By the end of turn 4, I held two objectives, killed both his HQ's, compared to him only having killed my battlewagon, and only having an 11 man strong DC squad left.

Admittedly, he had a silly list. Walking your 20+ strong DC across the board isn't going to work well.

Regardless though, DC are something I really worry about.

So I've been pondering something for my nob bikes...

has anyone here ever used a unit like this:

7 total nob bikes all with cybork bodies
3 with just kombi skorchas
2 with klaws and kombi skorchas
1 with klaw and kombi skorcha.
1 Painboy

The reason I ask, is the flame templates this edition just seem SOOOOO good....

The twin linked big shoota is similar, but with the bikes speed... you can cover 3-4 models pretty reliably. Doing far more damage than if you just relied on the twin BS...

and to be honest... its only 30pts to do this... killing 2 marines or 1 terminator more than pays for that investment.

I've been trying to figure out a formula... X lootas + waggh turn supa shots does it require to kill Y DC in one Turn?


I only have had the oppurutniy to dakka dump into DC at full strength 1 time with this combination.. fired waggh'd jet and 21 lootas at 8 DC + reclusiarch..


My gut feeling is 2.5-3 lootas per 1 DC.... So lets do the math


(assuming a WAAAAGH turn for double supa shoota shots from 1 dakka jet)

18 shots @ BS 3 = 9 hits, TL ROLL = +4.5 hits = 13.5 (14) hits Total 1 round

vs. T4 = 11.66 Wounds (12)

DC will throw 7.92 (8) saves thus failing 4. FNP will save 1.32 Wounds

DC casualties = 2.68 (3)

Lootas squad of 7 avg D3 roll = 2 thus 14 shots

14 shots @ bs2 = 4.62 (5) hits
5 Hits vs T4 = 4.16 (4) wounds

power armor will save 2.64 (3) leaving 1 wound to FNP which statistically should fail and pass thru 1 casualty.

so if You have 3 squads of 7 lootas and a waggh'd dakka jet firing at 8DC+Reclusiarch it seems you could realistically expect ~5 wounds to get thru on average... Only game I have actually tried this in I managed to wipe 8 DC and the reclusiarch in a single round of shooting. Musta rolled pretty good! Still came down to 4 wounds landing on 3w reclusiarch so only overkilled by a single wound.

So it seems on average that it requires 7 lootas to statistically get 1 wound thru 3+/FNP .... Way more than I thought... Sheesh. Someone check my #s?


boom wagon seeming like more viable alternative if one is really worried about DC

My calcs show 8 lootas getting one wound through, on average.

It's not actually that bad, when you consider it takes 5 lootas to kill a single normal marine, on clinical statistics.

Honestly, how you deal with them depends mostly on their size. Too large for a transport? Avoid them - since a unit of that size will eradicate anything that assaults it, or that it assaults. A unit of that size will also have trouble moving across the table, but note some transports have a capacity of 20.

Past that, just try to get as many str6+ shots into them - or failing that a torrent of hits where possible. Grotzookas work really well, as well as Burnas. Rokkits / KMB's also work really well here, since you are denying both their armour and their FNP. so each hit is an assured kill - not counting if you're hitting a forward IC.

None of these will cripple the unit in a single volley if it's large enough - go for attrition. Assaulting them with Kanz / Dreads is also a very good idea, but just be aware of which weapons they have in the unit, as well as the fact that they can use grenades.

These are the sorts of units fully upgraded Flash Gitz are almost meant for, in my opinion.

I was just thinking.
Wouldn't it be nice if Kans could take a Zooka AND rokkits?
I wish my Kans were viable on any level.

 matphat wrote:
I was just thinking.
Wouldn't it be nice if Kans could take a Zooka AND rokkits?
I wish my Kans were viable on any level.

cheap str 10 ap2 init 2 units with regretably low armor

So are regular nob squads even worth it now what with the loss of character status? I'm not talking about warbikers, but the regular nobz, the ones you get in the 5 man plastic box for $25. I have several of them I was running in a battlewagon with decent results, but I'm afraid with the loss of character status, they'll be worthless for pretty much everything except leading mobz now...

If it helps, I was running them as

Nob 1: PK, Waaaagh banner, CB
Nob 2: PK, BP, CB
Nob 3: PK, BP, CB
Nob 4: Big choppa, CB
Nob 5: Big Choppa, CB
Nob 6: Painboy, CB

With a typical battlewagon that had deffrolla and two big shootas.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
So are regular nob squads even worth it now what with the loss of character status?

Well, I like them even better now. No more stupid challenges, now all my Klaws get to hit. It helps a lot against Monstrous Creatures and Terminators. If someone really wants to challenge you, now it's your Painboy who doesn't get to fight... Not a big deal most of the time.

 matphat wrote:
I wish my Kans were viable on any level.

It's actually surprising how much allocating from the front hurt Kanz - they definitely took a survivability hit.

That said, they provide target saturation that is hard for me to drop. Opponents are often putting shots into kanz, rather than trukks or wagons. Additionally, Grotzookas are still fantastic weaponry, and even with low ap, can often endanger MEQ. Plus with the new blast rules in regards to vehicles, they are an even higher threat to weaker armour. As such, I find it a difficult prospect to get rid of them. I've dropped one unit to afford two fliers, but I can't seem to let go of the second

I have dropped them and replaced them with more boyz. It's really sad how much better that has made my army. Besides the nerf to the KFF and allocation, the two hull points really seal their fate. Any marine army simply tosses a couple of krak grenades their way, and they die, where they could keep khorne berzerkers busy for a few rounds before. Guardsmen or eldar simply disengage from combat if you charge them, a melta bomb usually means a dead kan, haywire grenades mean a dead unit. Gauss weaponry and high strength blasts vaporize them. Pretty much every rule change has turned against them.
They are too expensive for three rokkits that miss half the time, while the short range of the grotzooka tends to put them within range of a unit that can take them down in combat - which might be as powerful as space marine scouts.

I'd REALLY appreciate some help finetuning my list for tomorrows game guys!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/476616.page#4772229

//Calle