6th Ed. Ork Changes and Tactics. (Updated 9/7 with Ork FAQ 1.3)

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**KingCracker**

Make sure your spreading your army to max coherency then? A properly spread Ork line will greatly reduce the numbers you would lose otherwise.

**skyfi**

Alright fellas, I had been pretty comfortable for a few weeks with my 1999+1 list. Played a couple tourneys, a dozen casual games or so with it and had gotten 2 draws at my worst point until last night. Lost 5-3 in d3+1 obj mission vs. drop pod angels w/ mephiston... a tabling list... He ran

mephiston
10 DC w/ bolters / pod
9 dc w/ bolters + astorath / pod
10 vanguard vets all with dual hand flamers / pod
9 vanguard vets all dual hand flamers w/ sang priest / pod
5 assault marines / pod
stormraven w/ assault cannons/hurricane bolters/MM/missiles

i ran

biker boss
megaboss

6 biker nobs 1 bc 2 pk banner 1 of nobz is a painboy
6 meganobz 3 kombi skorcha w/ rolla wagon riggers rpj 2 bs
20 boyz pk nob
20 boyz pk nob
10gretchin

7 lootas
7 lootas
6 lootas

dakkajet fighta ace extra supa shoota

deffrolla wagon w/ 2 bs rpj and riggers

Mini bat rep

Spoiler:

So.... What do you do to kill mephiston? I think I should of sent my MANZ after him. I think that would have been my only way of killing him. Just refuse challenge and hope the 24 PK attacks on charge and 18 per round can attrition him before he does enough ID thru their 2+ saves. (from force or s10)...

I don't ever bring a big mek with SAG, or zap guns, and rarely face him....

We are going to play an escalation league though, and this same fella plays 2 razorbacks w/ 5 marines and mephiston as his 500 list lol. it is.... rough. to say least (1 might be rhino, no idea, wasn't watching too closely..)

it got me thinking of my 500 list for league though... How would I deal with mephiston? If i brought gak loads of boys, he'll chew threw them all. If I bring bikes, the same... I feel like at 500 points I need to include 3 MANZ, and a megaboss, to counter him specifically? I would assume I would refuse with megaboss and let meganobz do the work if at all possible?

Playing tuesday night against this list, and reading FOB results regarding deamons. makes me want to switch my list up... Possibly drop 1 mega nob and reduce lootas to 5/5/6, add 2 truks and split the squad of 20 boys on foot into trukks and fill them out to 12 w/ kitted nobs? Figured this would give me escort units. Let 12 boys absorb overwatch so 20 boys can charge in, or let mega nobs eat overwatch for 12 boys to get in or vice versa.

Strangely enough I almost didn't wreck the stormraven for fear of my boss.. lol but didn't want to risk letting it shoot at me another turn and kill off my troops.

My opponent thought it was odd I ran to middle obj for 3 points instead of attempting to kill mephiston.... He had 4 wounds left, I had 3 wounds in my bike pool... 2 on painboy and 1 on nob... we played painboy as a character, so could have easily chosen to make me not get to attack with both bikes. ... and i would have had to score 4 wounds on him... lol... I felt I would rather lose 3-5 and not get tabled, than lose 0-5 and get tabled... No guts no glory I guess

**PipeAlley**

I've only ever played against Mephiston twice and the last time was in 5th. He single handely killed 9 Killa Kanz without taking a single wound. I would certainly encourage focusing everything you have against him now knowing what he can do.

I've never heard of a list containing units with dual hand flames, sounds like fun. I have a feelin that if you played the exact same lists, and even if he went first again that you'd do better against him. Seems like a 1 trick pony Alpha Strike.

**matphat**

Speaking of Bikers, and all things Orky. Go check out my thread on Wazdakka and Ork Biker Bosses. It's not tacktiks! It's Biker Pron!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/486411.page

**skyfi**

PipeAlley wrote:
I've only ever played against Mephiston twice and the last time was in 5th. He single handely killed 9 Killa Kanz without taking a single wound. I would certainly encourage focusing everything you have against him now knowing what he can do.

I've never heard of a list containing units with dual hand flames, sounds like fun. I have a feelin that if you played the exact same lists, and even if he went first again that you'd do better against him. Seems like a 1 trick pony Alpha Strike.

9 killa kans? ROUGH. He killed 10 grots, 10 boys, nob, battlewagon, and 7 lootas solo in my game and I thought that was bad >.<

I had 2 approaches....

Throw meganobs at him (kitchen sink included) (possibly squad of boys as well)... can stop PK swings from warboss but not 6 meganobs pk nob from boys and 19 boys... but hard to get that many in B2B/2" circle around a single infantry..

or... ignore him entirely and focus on the rest of the board, which is what I tried... I didn't realize he was so GD mobile though.

I agree, I feel like I will do much better next time I play this chap. Currently working on some 500 point lists that should be fun hehehe!

@ matphat I wish I had my biker boss complete to add to the thread, all I have are some WIP shots in my gallery and he looks like a weedy git compared to some of those!

**Anvildude**

The one time I went up against Mephiston was in an Apoc game. He solo'd my Gargant, chopping its arm off and proceeding to stab it to death in a single round.

**skyfi**

Speaking of 500 point lists... Lets say...

Mega boss BP CB 115

3 MANZ 1 kombi skorcha w/ trukk w/ ram (165)
9 boys w/ PK BP nob 1 big shoota w/ trukk + ram (145)
10 boys w/ nob w/ bp (75)

Megaboss rides with manz or boys depending on needs... If I'm worried about challenges with someone, put megaboss with boys so nob can challenge and warboss can murder... (not to mention using his 2+ armor save from shooting attacks for the boyz... but denying them overwatch/run/sweeping)

If not worried about challenges can leave megaboss with manz for LD9/BP (and also still use boyz to sweep

(purpose would be to escalate to my 1999+1 revised list)

Will post ideas about biker list @ 500 after lunch etc!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anvildude wrote:
The one time I went up against Mephiston was in an Apoc game. He solo'd my Gargant, chopping its arm off and proceeding to stab it to death in a single round.

just............

**Anvildude**

Yeah. I'm suitably terrified of him.

**Billagio**

in 6th, manz are great vs him since his sword is only AP3 so you get your armor save still, and you will wound him on 3s (?). Also he has no invul so they are instant wounds.

**Bacms**

Billagio wrote:
in 6th, manz are great vs him since his sword is only AP3 so you get your armor save still, and you will wound him on 3s (?). Also he has no invul so they are instant wounds.

He is T6 so no ID

**MrMoustaffa**

Bacms wrote:
Billagio wrote:
in 6th, manz are great vs him since his sword is only AP3 so you get your armor save still, and you will wound him on 3s (?). Also he has no invul so they are instant wounds.

He is T6 so no ID

Manz would also always wound him on a 2 since they've got S8 with PK's. Of course, if it's anything like where I play, the blood angel players always put biomancy on mephiston and give him iron arm if possible, making him T7-9

**Billagio**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Bacms wrote:
Billagio wrote:
in 6th, manz are great vs him since his sword is only AP3 so you get your armor save still, and you will wound him on 3s (?). Also he has no invul so they are instant wounds.

He is T6 so no ID

Manz would also always wound him on a 2 since they've got S8 with PK's. Of course, if it's anything like where I play, the blood angel players always put biomancy on mephiston and give him iron arm if possible, making him T7-9

Yes they wont ID him, but they do wound him with no saves, which is about as efficent as anything gets when attacking him.

And sorry, I thought he was T7 :/ I think I got his Toughness and Initaive mixed up.

**virx67**

I want to take Mephiston now with my BA.... Granted, if the Angels player is getting charged by MANZ, he's doing it wrong. All those powerklaw attacks should kill him at some point. Ghazghkull Thraka might be an answer. Just WAAGH! right before you get into combat with him. Or Old Zogwort. Though that's not nearly as effective as Ghazzy. Other than that, a SAG might work out.

**Billagio**

virx67 wrote:
I want to take Mephiston now with my BA.... Granted, if the Angels player is getting charged by MANZ, he's doing it wrong. All those powerklaw attacks should kill him at some point. Ghazghkull Thraka might be an answer. Just WAAGH! right before you get into combat with him. Or Old Zogwort. Though that's not nearly as effective as Ghazzy. Other than that, a SAG might work out.

I think a MAB might work even, but he dosent have EW so if you fail your save you are dead.

Yeah actually outside of MANZ the only solution is Ghazzy.

**KingCracker**

SAG probably wouldnt work that well. If you hit him, your only wounding him once a turn. Hoping for that thing to roll a double 6 is just ludicrous. Ive been running a SAG lately and still havnt had any of those crazy results happen yet. Although, my best shot to date, was popping 2 riflemen dreads in one go. Taught that SM player why you dont keep units like that so close to one another.

**Bonzofever**

The best way to go would probably be Old Zogwort. Wait for him, roll a dice, cross fingers.
He's also capable in close combat and has T5/W3 + Nest of Vipers. Not bad for 145 points.

Btw, how many points is Mephiston worth?

**KingCracker**

I dunno, but youd think it would be a gak load for all the things he can take on with out breaking a sweat

**skyfi**

Bonzofever wrote:
The best way to go would probably be Old Zogwort. Wait for him, roll a dice, cross fingers.
He's also capable in close combat and has T5/W3 + Nest of Vipers. Not bad for 145 points.

Btw, how many points is Mephiston worth?

10% more than Ghazgull or equal to a stock LR.

Mephiston has an AP3 sword though, and can be S10 for ID. Does old zog even have an invuln? Makes me think he would make quick work. I had thought of the squig ability though... but Mephiston is I7.... so would he still fail an INIT check by rolling a

?

Honestly I hadn't thought of bringing ghaz... I could easily do that... Let him break off and munch mephiston solo... I mean C'mon.. I think ghazgul can take mephiston solo myself... Only chance mephiston would have I think is if he got a lot of wounds through 5+ (or 2+ if he wagghed them to shrug em off) with "smite" had he taken it prior to charging.

That would leave mega nobz to kill something else nearby... hmmm...

I worry about letting a normal mega boss duel with mephiston because of ID via force sword or S10, like others have said.. just has to get a single wound through at S10 or pass an LD check... (3 powers a turn ughhh)

Thanks for responses fellas. I might have to make a point to include ol ghazzy instead of my normal boss. Not sure yet though... hmmmmmmm

**Bacms**

You are dealing with it wrong if it gets into close combat. You should seriously be taking this guy by shoot him to death. Think what would you do with terminators or monstrous creatures and apply it to him. The main problem is obviously is T6 and the fact that as a single 28mm he can hide pretty well. But high strength shooting like the one provided by lootas, burnas, cannons and on a desperate occasion boyz with shootas and big shootas.
Remember the moto, chop the shooty ones shoot the choppy ones

**matphat**

Seems obvious that you'd just turn 20 lootas on him for a round or two and say goodnight.

Am I wrong?

**skyfi**

2+ saves and wounding on 3's instead of 2's.. Coupled with an alpha strike that cut down my dakka considerably... (in my example above)

I shot him with 7 lootas at one point, causing 3 saves, shot him with big shootas, causing 3 saves, hit him with deffrolla 3 times, made all saves, 2+ is hard to get thru without heavy rate of fire, and with his jump pack/small size he can easily hide from most firing lanes. Heck I shot him with bikers on obj (only 2 bikes left) and caused 0 wounds.. the T6 is hard to wound, not to mention 5 wounds and 2+ save... I never knew he didn't have an invuln in game or else I would have probably for sure slammed my meganobz into him. Hindsight!

I feel like shooting him with anything buy AP2 is almost a waste. I would rather put those deffgun shots into normal marines, rokkits into death company (

fnp), and shoota boy dakka into something they plan on assaulting afterwards..

I could try sicking nob bikers on him, and they might do alright.. but I feel like he could get quite a few casualties threw and potentially sweep whole group if I rolled unluckily.

**virx67**

I just realized Zogwort won't work. His squig power only afffects Independant characters, and Mephiston isn't an independant character. Weight of fire should bring him down. That or Ghazzy are the only two things I can think of that'd work.

**matphat**

Grot tarpit?

**pepe5454**

Every time I have faced him my 5 MANZ killed him in one turn.

**skyfi**

matphat wrote:
Grot tarpit?

can tarpit 1 turn with challenge from ea runtherd... everyturn not in a challenge he will kill 5-6 grots probably and then force you to pass LD 5 or 7 with a -5 or 6 modifier and most likely sweep the unit...

So if you had 3 runtherders could tie him up for 1.5 game turns but on that 4th player turn of combat mephiston will most likely sweep the remaining 20+ grots I would think.

Glad to hear people drop him in 1 round w/ 5 MANZ.

**Anvildude**

Remember that Grabbin' Stikks reduce attacks by 1 for each in base contact- pulling 3 attacks off him should help.

**skyfi**

Anvildude wrote:
Remember that Grabbin' Stikks reduce attacks by 1 for each in base contact- pulling 3 attacks off him should help.

ah yeah, i remembered that at time of game but i only had 10 grots and 1 runtherder. I also issued a challenge to protect the grots. so reduced him by 1 attack... i figure that it would be smart to issue a challenge every turn to make mephiston waste 5 attacks on a single model. I figure he wouldnt ever be in a hurry to issue a challenge to a herder when he could kill half a dozen grots

**Bonzofever**

skyfi wrote:
10% more than Ghazgull or equal to a stock LR.
Mephiston has an AP3 sword though, and can be S10 for ID. Does old zog even have an invuln? Makes me think he would make quick work. I had thought of the squig ability though... but Mephiston is I7.... so would he still fail an INIT check by rolling a ?

Actually I was thinking about the Squig power, it's not an initiative roll, just a basic roll which doesn't arm Zogwort if you fail.
But I forgot something, just like people have pointed out! Mephiston is not an IC... So yeah, actually you'd better throw either Ghazghkull or MANz in his pretty face.

**skyfi**

Bonzofever wrote:
skyfi wrote:
10% more than Ghazgull or equal to a stock LR.
Mephiston has an AP3 sword though, and can be S10 for ID. Does old zog even have an invuln? Makes me think he would make quick work. I had thought of the squig ability though... but Mephiston is I7.... so would he still fail an INIT check by rolling a ?

Actually I was thinking about the Squig power, it's not an initiative roll, just a basic roll which doesn't arm Zogwort if you fail.
But I forgot something, just like people have pointed out! Mephiston is not an IC... So yeah, actually you'd better throw either Ghazghkull or MANz in his pretty face.

ahhh for some reason I was thinking it worked like JOWW

shows how much I use old zogwort

**Billagio**

Ghaz or Manz is your best bet. Meph is AP3 and no invul, should be fairly easy to deal with if you use either of those.

Also hes like 250 or 275, so hes a decent chunk of points.