CSM codex thoughts?

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**Puscifer**

I just read up on the possessed. They seem to be much improved from last time, but they are still expensive.

**wuestenfux**

Puscifer wrote:
I just read up on the possessed. They seem to be much improved from last time, but they are still expensive.

Are their abilities still randomized?

**Puscifer**

Yeah, but all are useful and are rolled every combat sub phase.

**Plumbumbarum**

buddha wrote:

- Defiler went from decent buy to not until next dex. It's not that it's stats are bad but for the basic defiler with autocannon/ccw we all had from the old dex it will cost a whopping 220pts. I know they were trying to sell the new daemon engines but damn that is a point nerf.

This is something that is just unbelievable, pay 50$ for a book with marketing tricks and nerfing beyond the point of uselesslness. It's shameless, impudent crap that shows their absolute lack of respect for their consumers - how did they manage to tame their playerbase like that, no idea. Anyway I'm out from buying new models or codieces, Dark Vengenance is hopefuly my last purchase for a long time.

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Back on topic a bit, I do not like what this is foreshadowing. FIFTY DOLLAR CODEXES is insane, no matter how you slice it. I have a beautiful hardback book twice the size of a codex, filled with watercolors of WWII fighter aircraft. The paper is top knotch, the print is good and a decent size, and the book is extremely sturdy. It cost me a whopping 20 dollars. I defy you to figure out any sane reason why a codex with half the pages, half the size, and half the quality of the WWII book I own costs almost 2 and a 1/2 times as much.

This may not be a big deal to some, but I really think it's a sign that GW is truly losing it when it comes to how their prices should be set. It also does not set a good tone for how prices will go in the future. The 30 or so buck paperback codexes were a bit steep, but weren't completely insane. These hardbacks though are pushing it to the point where I'm afraid my eyebrows aren't just raised, they may just shoot off of my forehead and embed themselves in the ceiling. If they had a cheaper alternative, a "minidex" if you will, similar to how they did the mini 6th ed rulebook in Dark Vengeance, I'd be cool with it, but with no cheaper alternative, it's a little insane.

Yep they lost it. I saw Tyranid Warriors price yesterday, 50$ equivalent, I mean wtf that's 3 little plastic guys. I agree about the codex as well, I will pay the price for my armies codieces only if the rest of the incoming books turns out balanced with it.

**Skriker**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Skriker wrote:

Hardly. The DV sprues are for DV and have nothing to do with future kit releases. Deffcoptas eventually got their own box, but were part of the combined sprues for AoBR.

Your argument would make a lot of sense if the Deffkoptas actually did get their own box, which they didn't.

Feel free to follow this link to the non-existent Deffkopta box that you can buy on GW's website:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440175a&prodId=prod1060174&rootCatGameStyle=

Skriker

**H.B.M.C.**

That's an ancient metal Gorkamorka model. It's not even close to being the same thing.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Skriker wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Skriker wrote:

Hardly. The DV sprues are for DV and have nothing to do with future kit releases. Deffcoptas eventually got their own box, but were part of the combined sprues for AoBR.

Your argument would make a lot of sense if the Deffkoptas actually did get their own box, which they didn't.

Feel free to follow this link to the non-existent Deffkopta box that you can buy on GW's website:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440175a&prodId=prod1060174&rootCatGameStyle=

Skriker

The old Gorkamorka Deffkopta in metal that was around before AoBR was released?

**Crimson**

Skriker wrote:

Feel free to follow this link to the non-existent Deffkopta box that you can buy on GW's website:

That is an old metal model.

**kronk**

Skriker wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Skriker wrote:

Hardly. The DV sprues are for DV and have nothing to do with future kit releases. Deffcoptas eventually got their own box, but were part of the combined sprues for AoBR.

Your argument would make a lot of sense if the Deffkoptas actually did get their own box, which they didn't.

Feel free to follow this link to the non-existent Deffkopta box that you can buy on GW's website:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440175a&prodId=prod1060174&rootCatGameStyle=

Skriker

Seriously? That model is old and predated the Assault on Black Reach starter set by a number of years. That models is nothing like the AoBR DeffKopta in any way. There is a reason people went Apey over the AoBR DeffKoptas... they were 1/3rd the price of this model and 10x the quality.

Please know what you're talking about before you make definitive statements like "Hardly. The DV sprues are for DV and have nothing to do with future kit releases. Deffcoptas eventually got their own box, but were part of the combined sprues for AoBR." You're 100% wrong in this case.

I do hope that there is an excellent Chosen plastic kit in wave 2.

**Skriker**

[quote=kronk 480003 4836423 489f733d4807afe96ca5ceb3ce6c14c1.pngSeriously? That model is old and predated the Assault on Black Reach starter set by a number of years. That models is nothing like the AoBR DeffKopta in any way. There is a reason people went Apey over the AoBR DeffKoptas... they were 1/3rd the price of this model and 10x the quality.

Please know what you're talking about before you make definitive statements like "Hardly. The DV sprues are for DV and have nothing to do with future kit releases. Deffcoptas eventually got their own box, but were part of the combined sprues for AoBR." You're 100% wrong in this case.

I do hope that there is an excellent Chosen plastic kit in wave 2.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Plumbumbarum wrote:This is something that is just unbelievable, pay 50$ for a book with marketing tricks and nerfing beyond the point of uselesslness. It's shameless, impudent crap that shows their absolute lack of respect for their consumers - how did they manage to tame their playerbase like that, no idea. Anyway I'm out from buying new models or codieces, Dark Vengenance is hopefuly my last purchase for a long time

40k is a game designed to be played casually by casual players, and it is naive to ever expect there to be a book with units that are all competitive options, because simply this is not and never was the reason GW made books. There's no crime here.

**wuestenfux**

Well, one of the best news is that the codex provides cheap troops (Zombies) with FnP. Such an option is new in a MEQ codex.

**MrMoustaffa**

So, one thing I'm curious about, but does anyone else find it hilarious that if your cultist champion turns into a spawn, it's a good thing? The spawn is LD 10, and fearless. If he doesn't have to leave the unit, you suddenly have a mob of fearless cultists with a fairly strong close combat unit thrown in.

Hilariously situational, but I think it's worth mentioning just because the Cultist champion is so bad, turning into a spawn is a GOOD thing

**felixander**

Also I think people are overlooking a lot of awesome stuff. Chaos Bikers drop 13 POINTS! That's HUGE! You can now take Bikers with the Mark of Nurgle for only one point more than the C:SM version. I think that's a pretty uneven trade for ATSKNF in CSM's favor.

Also I know everyone overlooks Chaos Spawn because it used to suck HARD, but now they're 10 points cheaper and are better. They really are something to be considered now

I think that once people chill out that their codex isn't OP you're going to start finding a lot of these things you would never consider before as viable options

**Godless-Mimicry**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
So, one thing I'm curious about, but does anyone else find it hilarious that if your cultist champion turns into a spawn, it's a good thing? The spawn is LD 10, and fearless. If he doesn't have to leave the unit, you suddenly have a mob of fearless cultists with a fairly strong close combat unit thrown in.

Hilariously situational, but I think it's worth mentioning just because the Cultist champion is so bad, turning into a spawn is a GOOD thing

He counts as a separate unit when he transforms. Not like a Cultist champion was going to be winning any challenges anyway.

**wuestenfux**

felixander wrote:
Also I think people are overlooking a lot of awesome stuff. Chaos Bikers drop 13 POINTS! That's HUGE! You can now take Bikers with the Mark of Nurgle for only one point more than the C:SM version. I think that's a pretty uneven trade for ATSKNF in CSM's favor.

Also I know everyone overlooks Chaos Spawn because it used to suck HARD, but now they're 10 points cheaper and are better. They really are something to be considered now

I think that once people chill out that their codex isn't OP you're going to start finding a lot of these things you would never consider before as viable options

How about Slannesh Bikers? In the 3.5th ed codex, they had access to sonic blasters for +2 pts.

**Magc8Ball**

wuestenfux wrote:
How about Slannesh Bikers? In the 3.5th ed codex, they had access to sonic blasters for +2 pts.

They can't, and this is probably the one thing that really disappoints me: the lack of any sort of Mark-specific weaponry that can be taken by other specialist troops. My Slaanesh Havocs demand Blastmasters!

**felixander**

Magc8Ball wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
How about Slannesh Bikers? In the 3.5th ed codex, they had access to sonic blasters for +2 pts.

They can't, and this is probably the one thing that really disappoints me: the lack of any sort of Mark-specific weaponry that can be taken by other specialist troops. My Slaanesh Havocs demand Blastmasters!

While you're not going to get everything you wanted, this is one thing that would have been really cool to see.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even just upgrades to make Heavy Bolters better woulda been nice
Inferno Heavy Bolters
2+ Poison Heavy Bolters
and ChainAxe Throwing/Blood Spewing/Skull Chucking Heavy bolters?

**wuestenfux**

Magc8Ball wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
How about Slannesh Bikers? In the 3.5th ed codex, they had access to sonic blasters for +2 pts.

They can't, and this is probably the one thing that really disappoints me: the lack of any sort of Mark-specific weaponry that can be taken by other specialist troops. My Slaanesh Havocs demand Blastmasters!

In fact, Slaanesh Havocs were able to take blastmasters. I've a bunch of those Havocs on my shelf.

**epil**

Did chaos space marines lose greater deamons and lesser deamons?

**Magc8Ball**

wuestenfux wrote:
Magc8Ball wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
How about Slannesh Bikers? In the 3.5th ed codex, they had access to sonic blasters for +2 pts.

They can't, and this is probably the one thing that really disappoints me: the lack of any sort of Mark-specific weaponry that can be taken by other specialist troops. My Slaanesh Havocs demand Blastmasters!

In fact, Slaanesh Havocs were able to take blastmasters. I've a bunch of those Havocs on my shelf.

I have some of the really old ones, too, with the stubby, double-barrelled Blastmasters. At least I can field them as Autocannons or Lascannons!

**kcwm**

epil wrote:
Did chaos space marines lose greater deamons and lesser deamons?

Yup, because you can ally with Daemons now.

**wuestenfux**

kcwm wrote:
epil wrote:
Did chaos space marines lose greater deamons and lesser deamons?

Yup, because you can ally with Daemons now.

Indeed, the GD and LDs make not much sense in the new codex since one can take an ally detachment.

**ExNoctemNacimur**

That makes sense, and there won't be complaints about bland daemons now

**AlmightyWalrus**

felixander wrote:

and ChainAxe Throwing/Blood Spewing/Skull Chucking Heavy bolters?

Bah, no true follower of Khorne, Lord of Skulls and Martial Arts would use a long-ranged weapon to kill his foes!

**Alpharius**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
felixander wrote:

and ChainAxe Throwing/Blood Spewing/Skull Chucking Heavy bolters?

Bah, no true follower of Khorne, Lord of Skulls and Martial Arts would use a long-ranged weapon to kill his foes!

That hasn't been true in the past, and it isn't true now!

...is it?

**Palindrome**

Makumba wrote:
isnt the predator cheaper then it was before ?

Slightly. A dakka pred is 5 points cheaper and a full lascannon pred is about 20.

**Chaospling**

Do any body know if Aspiring Champions can take Daemon Weapons, or is it only the Independent Characters?

**Palindrome**

Chaospling wrote:
Do any body know if Aspiring Champions can take Daemon Weapons, or is it only the Independent Characters?

No, They are far too expensive to give to unit champions anyway.

**Makumba**

25 pts for the key isnt that much , runing 3-4 of them could give some nice combos with necron ally. .