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**alanmckenzie**

TechMarine1 wrote:
I like it because it lets you try new possibilities, like a tech marine walking just behind a leman Russ executioner.

Yup. Or an ork battlewagon?

**htj**

TechMarine1 wrote:
I like it because it lets you try new possibilities, like a tech marine walking just behind a leman Russ executioner.

Not hugely different to a Techpriest Enginseer walking behind a Leman Russ, to be fair.

**Hive Fleet Lazarus**

someone mentioned before that the idea behind allies was good but the execution could have been a whole lot better, something i agree with
That being said, I don't find allies very appealing but this may just be because I play nids

**TechMarine1**

Hive Fleet Lazarus wrote:
someone mentioned before that the idea behind allies was good but the execution could have been a whole lot better, something i agree with
That being said, I don't find allies very appealing but this may just be because I play nids

That's because all an Ally is to Tyranids is more food.

**Omfgorzzz**

Well glad I'm not the only one that sees things this way. Anywway like a few of you I think the allies thing needed to be refined more. Like only being able to take "X" unit from other codex's if you already have "Y", "Z" unit in your list already. Or making allies only able to team up with other certain armies. ROUGH EXAMPLE: IG can only have SM chapter allies/ Chaos and orks/ Nids and Necrons I guess/ Tau/IG/ and Sm chaptors can either call on IG or certain other units from another chapter faction.

**alanmckenzie**

Used to be that you could only have allies up to 50% pts value of your primary force.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
That seemed fair.

**Stormfather**

I'm indifferent to allies. I'd like it a little more if Sisters of Battle could ally with the Black Templars- it's common in the fluff but the rules treat it as a Desperate Alliance. Interestingly, both special characters in the BT codex has a fluff piece about working alongside the Sisters of Battle (Helbrecht on the Vinculus Crusade, Grimaldus on Armageddon). Rumors of an 'Allies' supplement in the works for next year do have excited, though.

**alanmckenzie**

"Allies supplement"? Where did you see that? Think they're gonna change it much?

**kronk**

I like it, but have yet to seen them used in my circle of friends.

**Stormfather**

alanmckenzie wrote:
"Allies supplement"? Where did you see that? Think they're gonna change it much?

Just a couple snippets from News and Rumors release schedule projections, AFAIK there's no concrete data on it other than the rumor that it is in the works for 2013. Check the first post in the Rumors Roundup thread in News and Rumors.

**Papasmerv**

When I first heard about it I was excited. I fondly remember my old games of 3e where my buddy played Imperium and it, in a way, gave me back my Lost and the Damned. After seeing the chart I was very disappointed. The pairings don't match up to what I saw as correct to fluff. In the long run though it doesn't really matter to me since I only play friendly games and we're all pretty open about what we let each other do as long as we have advance notice.

**xSPYXEx**

I like it.

Honestly, even though it opens the door for really OP combos and such, you have to remember that it divides up the list into two armies, so you can only have a limit on certain things. You can't really take all the powerunits from both armies, unless you're playing a really high point game.

Also, it lets me play with armies I wouldn't normally be using because I'd rather expand my current army instead of trying to make a whole new one. I was interested in the Tau and Necrons, and they can both ally with Chaos, so I thought what the hell, might as well play some matches with them and see what works.

**Gifblaur**

That's exactly how I see allies currently. It's a nice easy way for me to use certain models from other army ranges without being stuck with an army I don't like. Example: I really like the Thunderwolf Cav, but I'm not overly fond of the Wolves as a whole. I get to use those awesome models(imho) in my Blood Angels army without having to buy another expensive army that I don't even want in the first place. Yeah I still have to field a unit of Grey Hunters but one unit I'm not fond of is alot different than several.

My Mate plays nids and can understand where she might be upset. I get extra slots when i use allies, she can NEVER get extra slots. That sucks. That codex is so overcrowed in a few slots that it would have been nice of GW to just throw Nids a bone for old times sake. I doubt it would cause them to jump back to thier old Uber days but it would help make them a bit better against some of the higher end armies. Note: I am NOT saying that nids are awful. Overall I think 6th was kind to Nids(unless you played all genestealers, than it sucks.) but they could still use a slight advantage to level the playing field, I think GW missed on that opportunity.

**AnomanderRake**

I am, in fact, very fond of the Allies rules since they let me run an airborne Inquisition army I had theorized years ago in normal-sized games (allied Grey Knights and airborne Guard).

**illuknisaa**

htj wrote:
It puts proper daemons back into CSM armies. That's enough for me to hail it as a good thing.

Nope.avi

CSM has an item that allows deepstriking without scattering. Sounds awesome for deamons right? Wrong as pre 6th ed csm dex it was faqed that it only applies to units from it's own codex. This was done for both deamons and csm codex. Now in the 6th ed csm dex is still the same thing.

The most obvious codex synergy is taken away.

**Omfgorzzz**

I guess I can see the point of having some other units and not having to start an all new army just to use them.

**htj**

illuknisaa wrote:
htj wrote:
It puts proper daemons back into CSM armies. That's enough for me to hail it as a good thing.

Nope.avi

CSM has an item that allows deepstriking without scattering. Sounds awesome for deamons right? Wrong as pre 6th ed csm dex it was faqed that it only applies to units from it's own codex. This was done for both deamons and csm codex. Now in the 6th ed csm dex is still the same thing.

The most obvious codex synergy is taken away.

Er, what? I'm talking about the 'lesser daemons' rubbish from the old CSM dex now being supplanted with being able to take proper daemons from the CD dex.

Yeah, you can't aid DSing, but so what? Doesn't synergise as nicely, but they're still really good allies.

**Praxiss**

I've not used the Allie system myself - partly because i can't afford to by another army, codex etc.

A coupel of my friends are working on small allied forces (Slaanesh daemosn for an Emps Childrends army, DA allies for an IG army).

I've got nothing really against it myself but i can see it beign abused by powergamers pretty easily.

**kwah**

id rather they improved the codexes but as a tau player and for tau in general having allies makes sense to me and it dose mix things up a bit.

**illuknisaa**

htj wrote:
illuknisaa wrote:
htj wrote:
It puts proper daemons back into CSM armies. That's enough for me to hail it as a good thing.

Nope.avi

CSM has an item that allows deepstriking without scattering. Sounds awesome for deamons right? Wrong as pre 6th ed csm dex it was faqed that it only applies to units from it's own codex. This was done for both deamons and csm codex. Now in the 6th ed csm dex is still the same thing.

The most obvious codex synergy is taken away.

Er, what? I'm talking about the 'lesser daemons' rubbish from the old CSM dex now being supplanted with being able to take proper daemons from the CD dex.

Yeah, you can't aid DSing, but so what? Doesn't synergise as nicely, but they're still really good allies.

**Sephyr**

I like the concept but dislike the bungles execution. As it is, it mostly accentuates the game imperfect imbalance (SW+IG trading best units is not kosher froma design point, nor is leaving Nids out in the dark without some form of compensation), while also kicking the fluff in the nads:

-Tau being the pet xenos of people who -despise- xenos.

-Eldar forgiving Dark Eldar for the whole 'squicking satan into existence and killing 99% of out civilization in the deal' thing.

-Black Tempars happily having Eldar, who are xenos AND witches, around.

It smells of a money-grubbing ploy. Nothing against it as long as it's decently executed, but as it is? Lazy.

**JbR of the Endless Spire**

Being a collector rather than a gamer now the allies rules hasn't actually made the slightest difference to me. However looking at it from a gaming perspective I like the idea of being able to take allies but generally the table and execution are pretty appalling. Power gamers everywhere simultaneously orgasmed when they saw them...

**DarkHound**

Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Space Marines battle brothers with Tau but dislike Sisters of Battle ( xeno heresy )?
Black Templars hate Sisters of Battle ( not taking into account that there was never an incident between those two as far as I know and that Black Templars are basically Ecclisiarchy Marines who are close to worship Emperor as a God and they both hate psykers to that ) but will work with the Eldar? Who are xenos and psykers to that?
Dark Angels disliking Space Wolves? i am sorry but didn't these two chapters used to be best bros to the end because of that small Lion and Russ fight back at the time of Great Crusade that made them best buddies after that? They are like organizing games every time members of those chapters met to see who is the better champion at cc fight... of course nobody die in the end but what's important is that they keep the spirit of friendship between two legions by honoring Lion's and Russ's battle.
Chaos Daemons working together with Chaos Marines I get... but Tau??? Dark Eldar??? Imperial Guard???!!!
Chaos Space Marines work better with Tau than their daemonic allies... and they can work with Necrons.... I am sorry what happened to all that "we hate Warp"?
Dark Eldar and Eldar battle brothers? That's like Imperium of Man and Traitor Legions battle brothers.
Necrons can work with Grey Knights? And they are better allies with Chaos Space Marines than Chaos Daemons ( no matter that these two literally fought at Terra side by side... )
Grey Knights work with Necons better than with Blood Angels ( who are their battle brothers to that and one of the original Legions chapter )???

In order:

The Tau are at peace with the Imperium, and significant portions of the Imperium trade with the Tau. The Ultramarines sit right next to the Tau, and both of them suffered heavily to the same Hive Fleet. The Space Marines get sent to deal with the Tyranids more than the Imperial Guard, and so logically they'd often assist and get assistance from the Tau in such matters.

You've got that backwards. The Sisters don't like "the men". They don't get along with any of the Space Marines, and the Black Templar are a different sect of their religion on top of that. Catholics and Protestants killed each other for a couple hundred years.

The Lion and the Wolf.

Tau have no warp signature, no psykers, no risk of damnation or possession. Hell, Farsight has a daemonic weapon. They don't have the same relationship with daemons and the humans do. The Imperial Guard codex can represent any human militaries, including renegade and traitor forces. As for Dark Eldar, I think they'd enjoy helping a Bloodthirster beat on a Keeper of Secrets, don't you?

First: define "better". CSM are Battle Brothers with Daemons, and Allies of Convenience with Tau. Both the Tau and Necrons are (virtually) immune to daemonic influence, which makes working with the Chaos Space Marines more of a partnership.

I actually think this is really cool. They are the last of their species, collectively a dwindling few million in the face of untold trillions. I don't care if you don't like your cousin, in the zombie apocalypse, you're going to take who you can get. And, by the way, the Dark Eldar didn't betray the species. In fact, the Dark Eldar are truer to the Eldar's former empire than their hill-billy cousins.

Again, define "better". Anyway, what two races do not have to worry about daemons? Tau and Necrons (and Tyranids). That's kind of useful to the Daemon Hunters, especially the more radical Inquisitors. Under the new (and I think better) Necron fluff, that kind of alliance can actually have terms of service.

For the record, can anyone point out a power gaming list that uses allies? I actually haven't seen any.

**Omfgorzzz**

Sephyr wrote:
I like the concept but dislike the bungles execution. As it is, it mostly accentuates the game imperfect imbalance (SW+IG trading best units is not kosher froma design point, nor is leaving Nids out in the dark without some form of compensation), while also kicking the fluff in the nads:

-Tau being the pet xenos of people who -despise- xenos.

-Eldar forgiving Dark Eldar for the whole 'squicking satan into existence and killing 99% of out civilization in the deal' thing.

-Black Tempars happily having Eldar, who are xenos AND witches, around.

It smells of a money-grubbing ploy. Nothing against it as long as it's decently executed, but as it is? Lazy.

1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree

**Grey Templar**

The Allies system is actually a great leveler.

The codices that are top tier really don't benifit from it, and are actually hurt, as it waters down their army.

Mid Tier codices really reap no benifit.

Only low tier codices benifit from it as they can patch holes in their army.

So really, Allies only benifits fluff bunnies. Hardcore tournament players will not be running allies much at all.

**Sigvatr**

Grey Templar wrote:

Only low tier codices benifit from it as they can patch holes in their army..

Tyranids might want to have a word with you

Furthermore, I disagree. IG and SW make up for nasty stuff.

**Grey Templar**

Nids got a huge buff in 6th, and GW hates you. I'm very sorry about the last part.

Nids are solid mid tier now.

**AnomanderRake**

One other point: Allies are a relatively decent patch to counteract 'Codex Creep' by permitting lower-powered armies to access units from higher-tier armies, increasing the variety of things you can do. Sure, a powergamer can take advantage of it easily, but it also gives utterly useless units a new lease on existence and generally broadens the spectrum of things you can do (marching Kroot forward in front of a footslogging GK army to absorb fire isn't a half-bad idea, you could build a joke all-snipers army with Eldar Rangers and Ratlings for seventy BS4 sniper rifles in a 1,500pt army, et cetera).

Sure, it may be a ploy to sell more models, but if they increase player freedom to build clever and interesting armies (whether competitive or not) along with it, I'm all for it.

**Blood Angel 17**

I don't like it with regards to the fluff, but I do like the possibilities for counts as that come with it.

**CalgarsPimpHand**

There's a huge missed opportunity with 'Nids - let them be Allies with IG, even if it's only Desperate allies. This could easily represent a Genestealer cult rising up to fight alongside the invading Tyranids (shortly before the Tyranids turn and nom them).