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I believe Mark has stated he and WGF want to go straight retail with the Shadokesh while he works on the rules set.

So we can probably expect some type of staggered release of them over the next year or 2.

Good to hear. I hope that route goes a bit quicker than the Kickstarter one but I'm not sure if that'll be the case. The holdup wasn't the funding mechanism seemingly but the ability of the manufacturer to finish the molds and models which won't change too much. I'd expect some streamlining in the design phase as both the manufacturer and designer are more experienced now compared with two years ago.

In any case, it's nice to see a KS end with the pledgers ultimately very happy overall with what they ultimately received (albeit late). I've only taken the plunge on two myself but this was one of the original tabletop gaming kickstarters that I followed and almost funded. It's probably the only one that didn't end up with some sort of drama regarding the actual quality/design of the minis received. The KOW, warzone (with their change of scale and redesign), relic knights, and robotech ones were the norm. I'm guessing that the Kingdom Death campaign will be the second one I've followed to end up like this (very nice minis that came very late).

 warboss wrote:
Will the shadowkesh stuff be straight to retail or another kickstarter instead?

I'm hoping for a small KS. Shadokesh, only. Something with limited scope that he might knock out relatively quickly in a single wave, rather than a huge mass of stuff that drags out into multiple waves.

Then, he could repeat that with another small KS for the StuG & rules once the Shadokesh are in production.

A series of quick hits, one wave each, well-defined scope for more control.

Honestly, I think regular retail would be better but (like almost all of us) I'm speaking from a consumer POV and not a creator. Since there is some regular income feasibly coming in now which wasn't the case with the initial offerings, it might be better to just go with regular retail release and not have those pledges hanging over dreamforge's head for another year or two to come. Without funding/selling the kits so far ahead of time, they can work behind the scenes without as much drama.

 warboss wrote:
Honestly, I think regular retail would be better but (like almost all of us) I'm speaking from a consumer POV and not a creator. Since there is some regular income feasibly coming in now which wasn't the case with the initial offerings, it might be better to just go with regular retail release and not have those pledges hanging over dreamforge's head for another year or two to come. Without funding/selling the kits so far ahead of time, they can work behind the scenes without as much drama.

From Mark's update:
"Both I and WGF are quite eager to begin work immediately on the Shadokesh. As the backlog of Kickstarter work they took on is finally coming to its fruition, there will be time for them to dedicate energy towards the next set of releases in a far steadier and less pressured manner. This will make it much easier for us to start planning regular quarterly releases. "

So It looks like they want to do quarterly releases, and the main bottleneck was all the Kickstarter work WGF picked up in the last couple of years.
Hopefully they will take on less design work now that those lines are almost finished aside from actual production.

It might have been from earlier in this thread, but Mark DID state he did not want to do another Kickstarter for the Shadokesh.

If you go back in time, Mark pulled the trigger to start tooling Wave 1 (Leviathan Crusader) toward the end of the campaign. Wave 1 delivered 5-6 weeks late (Feb '13 vs Nov '12).

If Mark were to fund just the core Shadokesh, he could probably have those tooled and delivered on time, without having the rest hang over him.

OTOH, if he can start tooling without a bump in revenue, that's great, too!

ski2060 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Honestly, I think regular retail would be better but (like almost all of us) I'm speaking from a consumer POV and not a creator. Since there is some regular income feasibly coming in now which wasn't the case with the initial offerings, it might be better to just go with regular retail release and not have those pledges hanging over dreamforge's head for another year or two to come. Without funding/selling the kits so far ahead of time, they can work behind the scenes without as much drama.

From Mark's update:
"Both I and WGF are quite eager to begin work immediately on the Shadokesh. As the backlog of Kickstarter work they took on is finally coming to its fruition, there will be time for them to dedicate energy towards the next set of releases in a far steadier and less pressured manner. This will make it much easier for us to start planning regular quarterly releases. "

So It looks like they want to do quarterly releases, and the main bottleneck was all the Kickstarter work WGF picked up in the last couple of years.
Hopefully they will take on less design work now that those lines are almost finished aside from actual production.

It might have been from earlier in this thread, but Mark DID state he did not want to do another Kickstarter for the Shadokesh.

Thanks for the clarification as I missed that.

 warboss wrote:
While I would have preferred finishing out the current line with the Chitty Chitty Stug Stug (love the look!), I can understand why he'd want to work on an opfor instead. Will the shadowkesh stuff be straight to retail or another kickstarter instead? I'm also curious if we'll see a preview pic of the light armor as well since we can't really make out much under the leviathan's foot.

The Puma is the likely candidate for the walker since it looks pretty much exactly like what's under the Mortis's foot. An earlier WIP image of it is available from the dark archives of the ancient history of 2011; millennia ago in Internet terms: http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/2011/06/on-bench.html (image spoilered below; again, WIP)



I wouldn't mind seeing the progress made in the intervening Internet-centuries though.

Personally, I like that design way more than the Leviathan. That looks like it'd be way easier to integrate with my Weird War Germans, too.

Yes, Mark said that it will indeed be the Puma. More specifically, he said it is the light walker under the foot of the Leviathan Mortis on it's Cover art.

That walker is the Puma scout walker.

So the Scout walker is (h)armless?

IMO, the problem with the Puma is that we have both Gear Krieg and Dust Tactics doing very similar work:


Yes, the models all differ in details, but at a very high level, they are casually similar. OTOH, the Leviathan is very different, it stands alone. If I were doing it, the Eisenkern Scout Walker would be laid out as a cross between an IG Sentinel and GK Dreadknight, with Leviathan Crusader styling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dreamforge buy the rights to a handful of light mechs about 3 years ago or so? I'd love to see some of those make it into production. Also, a redo of the classic Black Widow walking tank.



As for the Shadowkesh, I'm somehow imagining their leviathans to look something like this:

Sorry for the double post, but I found a picture of that Black Widow.

The Black Widow walker would make for a fine Defiler-like tank. Visually, it's kinda clunky, not refined as a match for Shadokesh.

What faction does the Mortis belong to? I see it shares the same symbol as that walking tank.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The Black Widow walker would make for a fine Defiler-like tank. Visually, it's kinda clunky, not refined as a match for Shadokesh.

I agree that the Black Widow walker aesthetics don't jive with the Shadowkesh. I also think the weapons would need to be changed. If Shadowkesh troops are going to be aliens wielding alien tech staff weapons then their walkers shouldn't be armed with human looking gatling guns and a cannon. Aliens need to be alien.

privateer4hire wrote:
Or you could roll, say, 2d6 and still have your 10 value spread.
From the blog, looks like the developer is set on d10s, though.

2D6 is bad because you can't batch roll them. Since each pair has to be considered separately, you can't just pick up the appropriate handful of D10s and roll them all at once.

I Didn't mean that the Black Widow would be for the Shadowkesh. I know it's human. It's just another one of Mark's designs that I'd love to see put back into production.

Ah, OK, got it.

Yeah, I'd love to see the Black Widow in plastic.

Um aren't ignoring the elephant in the room, the models we REALLY want from Dream Forge?

I remember the day those first went on sale. I thought about buying one, but at the time $750 seemed like so much money. What a difference 11 years and a career makes. Those are two models that are on my wish list if anyone ever wanted to part with one. I've seen one in person, I guess I'll just have to live with that (and my Gabriel Knight).

I'm not entirely sure I want one, simply because the sticker price would be so high.

Now, a Shadokesh walker akin to an Eldar Phantom? Yes, please.

 Paradigm wrote:

Binabik15 wrote:
Daaaaaamn, those are nice aliens.


I'll have to wait on a good sale before I buy Valkirs, though, even if there are 20 guys in it, 60€ is a lot to pay for a single box of minis. And, that backlog, sigh.

Still cheaper than an equivalent amount of SM, though (at least in the UK). And depending on what you're running on, a couple of sets and a box of Assault and Support troopers gets you most of a 40k army.

I'm more interested in the Black Widows, though, as if they are priced like Eisenkern, I may be spending a lot of cash on Dreamforge.

They might become Heavy Grenadiers for Dust. I never play, but with MM 9 bucks a box sale and he KS I have quite a few Axis bodies to present on a shelf. Two armies made out of them, one SS, err, Blutkreuz based with two distinct colour schemes, one black and green where the crazy tech goes, Hydra-style, the other red and black with werewolves for monkeys and maybe some selfmade zombies. Jadedolch and Silberdolch division (or other appropriate military term, division is probably way too huge). The other force would be a standard Wehrmacht force...with gorillas and walking tanks

The Valkirs would fit well with both a more tech-y force (Jadedolch) and a more knightly looking one (Silberdolch).

20 dudes is way more than I'd need, though, not making the price more attractive. And as I said, I have sooo much stuff to finish first.

Although i like the Puma, i hope the smaller mech will more similar to the leviathan or i would like to see some designs like in the PS2 ring of red game

Got my package. Haven't gone through it yet, but I did see individually boxed arm kits, which is interesting.

Watch out for the small pistons on the scythe arm I suggest a small ball of blue tac in the pivot hole, if you want it to move.

I just saw that on the Dreamforge facebook group (#l33t) and I need Alex Holker to shoot it down for me so I can stop thinking about it.

Valkir. With Statuesque heads. Bolters. Maybe even the little imperial back-pack topper.

Tell me how it's not SoB enough. Please tell me.

ski2060 wrote:

From Mark's update:
"Both I and WGF are quite eager to begin work immediately on the Shadokesh. As the backlog of Kickstarter work they took on is finally coming to its fruition, there will be time for them to dedicate energy towards the next set of releases in a far steadier and less pressured manner. This will make it much easier for us to start planning regular quarterly releases. "

So It looks like they want to do quarterly releases, and the main bottleneck was all the Kickstarter work WGF picked up in the last couple of years.
Hopefully they will take on less design work now that those lines are almost finished aside from actual production.

That would be the bottleneck that we kept getting told by a couple of KS creators really didn't exist because WGF has completely different teams working on them all.

Anyway. Got my box. Shipped in 2015 and arrived in 2015. Shame nothing ever came of a coupon etc. Even though I have no idea what I'll ever do with these kits now that 40k isn't an important thing to me anymore, I'd still have picked up a couple of those nice-looking APCs..

You can have 40 different teams working on design. If you only have one production facility with limited room and time, you can only cram so much production through.

Nod. But both this KS and SWM kept stating that there was no production backlog caused by other projects, because they all had their own teams.