Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Natural color of the plastic it 1 billion % not that color... anyone who tell you it is is talking serious crap

ohhhhh myyyyyyyy. A dude cut his board and it was the same colour right through. So someone is talking serious gak, and i think i know who...

 Orlanth wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

And I'm still not angry. I'm actually kinda amused. Will typical "internet rules" (Never apologise, nor admit wrongdoing, nor admit that you were wrong or incorrect, ever) apply here?

None of the above, I just don't like friendly, well meaning and politely spoken advice to be referred to as 'trolling'.

 Azazelx wrote:

So... your "advice" is pretty much a collection of meaningless words and almost on a par with trolling - not real advice for something that backers will actually be able to access since the KS reps aren't about to give you or us the contact details for their bosses,
Well done.

I was surprised by the above frankly, it was not a nice thing to say, and unwarranted. So I vocally assumed you were venting anger at me, that at least is only a passing lapse and the least uncharitable reason for the above post.

Point remains that G&G don't need nor deserve your unwarranted defence. Have been Lying to us for months as they shift the goalposts on what seems to be a weekly basis. Have provided endless misinformation, and your "talk to the owner" is a useless suggestion that's not actually possible. If you're offended, perhaps then you should have been less passive-aggressive and condescending when speaking to the disgruntled backers here. It's all on you, mate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pete Melvin wrote:

Natural color of the plastic it 1 billion % not that color... anyone who tell you it is is talking serious crap

ohhhhh myyyyyyyy. A dude cut his board and it was the same colour right through. So someone is talking serious gak, and i think i know who...

Clearly that's all the backers' fault as well. Right?

 Azazelx wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

And I'm still not angry. I'm actually kinda amused. Will typical "internet rules" (Never apologise, nor admit wrongdoing, nor admit that you were wrong or incorrect, ever) apply here?

None of the above, I just don't like friendly, well meaning and politely spoken advice to be referred to as 'trolling'.

 Azazelx wrote:

So... your "advice" is pretty much a collection of meaningless words and almost on a par with trolling - not real advice for something that backers will actually be able to access since the KS reps aren't about to give you or us the contact details for their bosses,
Well done.

I was surprised by the above frankly, it was not a nice thing to say, and unwarranted. So I vocally assumed you were venting anger at me, that at least is only a passing lapse and the least uncharitable reason for the above post.

Point remains that G&G don't need nor deserve your unwarranted defence. Have been Lying to us for months as they shift the goalposts on what seems to be a weekly basis. Have provided endless misinformation, and your "talk to the owner" is a useless suggestion that's not actually possible. If you're offended, perhaps then you should have been less passive-aggressive and condescending when speaking to the disgruntled backers here. It's all on you, mate.

Passive-aggressive? Nice to see that one trawled out. It's generally used as an excuse to get vocally aggressive with someone who wasn't vocally aggressive to you, but you don't like what they are saying.
Cut the excuses. Your hostile response was unwarranted and your pride is preventing you from admitting such.

I dont work for G&G and if I am more forgiving than you are on G&G thats no excuse for you to bite at me.
It is not mandatory for Dakka members to hate G&G, impatience isnt mandatory, a sinking feeling that backers wont get their boards isnt mandatory. Its a perfectly acceptable option to be upbeat about it, and probably mentally healthier. its not for you to say if the company 'need nor deserve' my comments. Cut the thought police crap please.

Not going to do estimates anymore. But will be with you in days

1000 days is still days.

Damien about 10 hours ago
Grand - oh and you didn't mention how many pre-orders you got, These updates were very interesting? Care to shout out the new number? I would like to make sure you guys are highly successful from this kickstarter and make plenty of money. You are still in the black right?

Thanks Damien,
287 pm requests from Backers, when pre-orders go live if everyone here commits and outside here we expect a sell out within weeks or months... which is amazing (that is on top of backers who have already pledged for one). We are fortunately still in the black... shipping has been a huge headache for Urban Wars... but glad it has been sorted and have learnt a lot. We have been very careful that shipping does not take us to the red and that we full-fill this KS 100% as planned

Hopefully you can tell we put a lot of effort into these products and a whole load more into them with the entire remake of them. So for us it is about getting you the best quality gaming battle boards and we have been really strict on the entire process. Possibly too strict as the success of the launch of these means the world to us. It's a huge labour of love and you and everyone here having great times on the these boards with happy smiles, will make all the huge upsets, troubles and issues on our side melt away.

Thanks Again

WHOOOOOSSSSH. The sarcasm plane roars overhead. At least she didnt mention...well, you know. It.

ieuan belcher about 1 hour ago
Should see some UK backers getting Hawk Wargames boards today - with any luck!

Fingers crossed!

Dont hold your breath son

If the kickstarter was fulfilled 100% to plan we would have all had our boards many months ago...

So how do these kickstarter messes start?

With greed in the black hearts of game designers across the globe.

I mean, that's a given.

 malfred wrote:
So how do these kickstarter messes start?

Folks begin a project with little to no understanding of what they are actually in for, no solid business plan, no agreements from producers, and then start throwing more and more promises of product into the project in order to increase/sustain funding momentum. They make promises they have no idea how to keep. They go into the project without a clear understanding of what their real costs will be and how each stretch goal delivery will affect that cost. Sometimes they exacerbate that believing they can afford to take a certain loss delivering to backers to get their game/figures/widget into production, but then realize unless they have funding to cover that loss from another source they cannot actually deliver.

Throw in a bit of bad luck and/or greed in some cases and you can have quite the mess.

Successful gaming kickstarters are lucky if they have the 10% inspiriation down pat. After funding, the harsh reality of the 90% perspiration kicks in.

What would you say would have been kickstarters done right?

 RiTides wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
It doesn't help that I know Sam from G&G personally, and while he is a fun likeable guy getting him to stick to a deal is like playing Twister with eels.
If you want any meaningful results bypass him and ask to speak to the owner.

That's hilarious, I kind of felt the same way talking to him - really nice, but I just could not pin him down even though I talked to him with the express intent of doing so!

I don't have anything to add to the KS discussion, but I did walk by their table at Adepticon and drooled over their brushes. By Friday, the type of brush I was interested in was sold out, so I asked the guy about it. No idea who he was. He immediately went into his hard sell mode. I tried to steer him back to the brushes that he sold out of. "Do you have a website..." "Do you sell to any local stores..." "Where can I get this specific brush..."

He kept putting one of his other kits that he did have in stock. I put it down. He'd hand it or another one back to me. Also, he didn't answer any of my questions. Not one. I finally just said I had to go and left. My wife couldn't believe I put up with it for as long as I did. I'm not a patient man, and I HATE the hard sell. I have one of the brushes from the Adepicon Swag Bag, and I would certainly consider buying a replacement from their website.

But kick me in the head if I ever walk towards their table at an event again. It just left a bad taste in my mouth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 malfred wrote:
What would you say would have been kickstarters done right?

Reaper Bones I and II. I'm very happy with my gak.

 kronk wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
It doesn't help that I know Sam from G&G personally, and while he is a fun likeable guy getting him to stick to a deal is like playing Twister with eels.
If you want any meaningful results bypass him and ask to speak to the owner.

That's hilarious, I kind of felt the same way talking to him - really nice, but I just could not pin him down even though I talked to him with the express intent of doing so!

I don't have anything to add to the KS discussion, but I did walk by their table at Adepticon and drooled over their brushes. By Friday, the type of brush I was interested in was sold out, so I asked the guy about it. No idea who he was. He immediately went into his hard sell mode. I tried to steer him back to the brushes that he sold out of. "Do you have a website..." "Do you sell to any local stores..." "Where can I get this specific brush..."

He kept putting one of his other kits that he did have in stock. I put it down. He'd hand it or another one back to me. Also, he didn't answer any of my questions. Not one. I finally just said I had to go and left. My wife couldn't believe I put up with it for as long as I did. I'm not a patient man, and I HATE the hard sell. I have one of the brushes from the Adepicon Swag Bag, and I would certainly consider buying a replacement from their website.

But kick me in the head if I ever walk towards their table at an event again. It just left a bad taste in my mouth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 malfred wrote:
What would you say would have been kickstarters done right?

Reaper Bones I and II. I'm very happy with my gak.

And that is very fine gak indeed.

I was also very happy with the first Kings of War Kickstarter - but that was, in part, because of the happy panic that they were going through. (They had not expected to reach the first stretch goal... let along to hit it in a matter of days. And that first stretch goal was the only one that they had planned.)

The Auld Grump

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 malfred wrote:
What would you say would have been kickstarters done right?

Reaper Bones I and II. I'm very happy with my gak.

Well, it's Friday afternoon.

Anyone got any boards?

Or is anyone bored?

No boards here.

Quite bored.

Since 99.99% are supposed to be delivered today, they appear to be running out of time somewhat...

Seems that 0.01% might be rather large....

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554355176/games-and-gears-battle-boards/comments

http://twotimestwohobbytime.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/more-lies-from-games-and-gears.html

It seems to me that the boards have a "fantasy" life, in which they arrived in the UK in December, and a "real" life in which they were sent from China 2 weeks ago.

It's the only explanation that makes sense as to why no boards have been delivered in the EU when they have been here for 5 months.

 Slinky wrote:
It seems to me that the boards have a "fantasy" life, in which they arrived in the UK in December, and a "real" life in which they were sent from China 2 weeks ago.

As long at they have been dispatched from China and that part isn't just another plot twist. At them moment I'm doubting pretty much everything that Alice says.

By my count only 5 active backers have received their boards so far. (1 in Singapore, 1 in Japan and 3 in Australia). I might have missed an Aussie or two though.

Creator Games & Gears about 4 hours ago

Guys stop with the crap.

 Orlanth wrote:

Passive-aggressive? Nice to see that one trawled out. It's generally used as an excuse to get vocally aggressive with someone who wasn't vocally aggressive to you, but you don't like what they are saying.
Cut the excuses. Your hostile response was unwarranted and your pride is preventing you from admitting such.

I dont work for G&G and if I am more forgiving than you are on G&G thats no excuse for you to bite at me.
It is not mandatory for Dakka members to hate G&G, impatience isnt mandatory, a sinking feeling that backers wont get their boards isnt mandatory. Its a perfectly acceptable option to be upbeat about it, and probably mentally healthier. its not for you to say if the company 'need nor deserve' my comments. Cut the thought police crap please.

Yeah... no. You don't get to confuse or misdirect the issue here.

You're the one who rejoined this thread seemingly only in order to tell people who were sick of being lied to that they're doing it wrong, that their endless Force Majure lies and so forth should pretty much just be accepted/ignored and we're doing it wrong.

You're the one who decided to step in and self-righteously and passive-aggressively tell the rest of us who were sick of endless G&G lies and bs that "it comes when it comes" and "if you can't accept it, stay away" - as if those are any answer to their endless lies.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1140/520449.page#7782096
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1170/520449.page#7782188

Along with "I don't think they've lied to us". Wow. All I can say, you better stay away from bridges, since they've done nothing but lie to us in the last several months with regard to the boards. So you're either an apologist for them, or.. how can I put this delicately? Well, apparently you believe that everything that they have told us is the truth. Let's look at your own words:

 Orlanth wrote:

I don't think G&G have lied to anyone, though all bets are off with Sam Sedghi.
What they have done is got into hot water and tried damage control long enough to fix the problem as best they can.

I do not believe that they are lying through their teeth, they are omitting facts because it is damaging to reveal the true cost of dealing with the Dragon. They are also not in any way in control of their delivery schedule, due to manufacturers whims, shipping company whims and finally UK and EU customs whims.

Hm. this seems very credible.

There is also this gem that you just tried to dodge again, of course:

 Orlanth wrote:

If you want any meaningful results bypass him and ask to speak to the owner.

Yeah. That's a good one. I love the way you slowly backed off on that one without any admittance of it being bs "advice" from the get-go.

 Orlanth wrote:

All I said was that I don't trust Sam Sedghi and would talk to someone else with regards to business. Fair advice given for fair reason.
I didn't say I knew who ran the company, who else you could talk to, or what car they drive, theior phone number ortheir favourite food. I don't know those things, and it is not my responsibility to find them out for you.
You could try asking to speak to someone else, if/when that doesn't work at least the alarm bells should be ringing correctly if nothing else.
Advice remains: deal with someone else if you can.

Yeah, nothing passive-aggressive there.

I think when you talk about not being able to swallow pride, you're surely talking about yourself. You've certainly got no idea what "my pride" is allowing or disallowing me to do. I think you've come into this thread in a failed attempt to defend G&G, and in doing so you have behaved insultingly and condescendingly towards the people discussing them in a manner that you would not do if it were an in-person discussion. Of course, being the internet, you can act more aggressively than you would, and don't need to stop and consider your behaviours since there aren't really any consequences.

 Azazelx wrote:

You're the one who rejoined this thread seemingly only in order to tell people who were sick of being lied to that they're doing it wrong, that their endless Force Majure lies and so forth should pretty much just be accepted/ignored and we're doing it wrong.

Actually I was offering some hope and an appeal for patience. I am concerned about the delay too, and have invested in two boards. But I know foaming at the mouth wont solve anything, so I take it in my stride and find ways to chase up the problem logically. Sharing information with other backers is a logical way forward, it was for instance good to know that some people have their boards, even if they are all in the West Pacific region. One was helpful enough to inform us that one board was missing, so that is another issue to look out for.
One of the best ways to help is to share information on how best to complain about this project. Its useful therefore to know who to complain to, sadly I don't have that information, but I do know who not to complain to if you want an answer you can rely on, and shared rthat information with the backer community on Dakka. Some saw this for what it was, others can't.

You see if people are patient they can wait and handle delays.
If people aren't patient their impatience can overrule their better judgement and they get angry, at random, for no reason, and lash out against those in their path.
As demonstrated:

 Azazelx wrote:

You're the one who decided to step in and self-righteously and passive-aggressively tell the rest of us who were sick of endless G&G lies and bs that "it comes when it comes" and "if you can't accept it, stay away" - as if those are any answer to their endless lies.

And all you can do about is troll? Surely there is another way.
I dont work for G&G, your misdirected anger is due to your inability to handle disappointment, and that leads to a need to lash out at anyone in the way.
Please grow up.

 Azazelx wrote:

I think when you talk about not being able to swallow pride, you're surely talking about yourself. You've certainly got no idea what "my pride" is allowing or disallowing me to do. I think you've come into this thread in a failed attempt to defend G&G, and in doing so you have behaved insultingly and condescendingly towards the people discussing them in a manner that you would not do if it were an in-person discussion. Of course, being the internet, you can act more aggressively than you would, and don't need to stop and consider your behaviours since there aren't really any consequences.

I am actually quite surprised at the level of trolling I am receiving from you right now, because in doing so you are quoting quite reasonable comments with vehemence.
Please notice that no one else is behaving the same way, yet somehow I have shot your dog.
Yet I am not curious enough to want to find out more, it doesn't really matter.

Either backers will be patient for their stuff, or they wont, those who want to contact Games & Gears can accept or ignore the well intentioned advice not to deal with Sam Sedgi in lieu of other contacts with a less chequered merchant history, and if it doesn't come we have recourse back to Kickstarter. Simple rally, and nothing to get rabid over, at least not to me.

End of conversation.

Either backers will be patient for their stuff, or they wont, those who want to contact Games & Gears can accept or ignore the well intentioned advice not to deal with Sam Sedgi in lieu of other contacts with a less chequered merchant history, and if it doesn't come we have recourse back to Kickstarter.

Okay, this point has been made enough times, and responded to - both sides please let it drop if there is nothing new to add.

Thanks!

 malfred wrote:
What would you say would have been kickstarters done right?

Dwarven Forge has run 3 highly successful campaigns and has delivered on time for both the first and second (the third isn't due until early next year).

 Pete Melvin wrote:

Creator Games & Gears about 4 hours ago

Guys stop with the crap.

Been so busy with the new job not been keeping up to date with anything, soon as I saw that quote I assumed it was a joke and had to go check. So sorry if I'm late to the party but seriously, how do they think that looks to customers coming from a business. Heads would roll saying something like that to customers at any establishment I've ever been a part of.

Yeah,
Quick update to say one of my two city boards arrived today...
No idea why only one.

Pretty good, feels cheaper and lighter than GWs.
Pretty good detail.

No grey paint, kinda brown grey plastic.
Roads are sprayed on and then white lines sprayed... Very basic.
Should be able to paint up and weather super quick.
Wish they just sold unpainted and cheaper!

1/4 ... Still waiting on 3 boards.

Panic...

well at least a sign that some of them have arrived in the UK,

pretty disappointing you only got part of your order though

 Panic wrote:
Yeah,
Quick update to say one of my two city boards arrived today...
No idea why only one.

Pretty good, feels cheaper and lighter than GWs.
Pretty good detail.

No grey paint, kinda brown grey plastic.
Roads are sprayed on and then white lines sprayed... Very basic.
Should be able to paint up and weather super quick.
Wish they just sold unpainted and cheaper!

1/4 ... Still waiting on 3 boards.

Panic...

Panic,

Good news! Quick questions if you don't mind.

How is the clip assembly and table hangover? Easier to put together than the RoB? Also, does it need a proper 6x4 table underneath or does the board support its own weight pretty well for a smaller table.

Thanks in advance. Hopefully we start seeing them state side soon...Did they ship them from China all along then?

yeah,
I use a 6x4 table with a lip, I built for the ROBB.
So i don't need clips.

But I will try and report back this evening.

Panic...

So G&G stated a bunch of times that the grey is painted, when in fact it isn't. Just lols.