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There has been something poking away at the back of my brain about how the Centurion's torso design seemed very familiar.

I finally realized what it was. The Centurion's torso design seems very reminiscent of Gears of War's "Silverback" mech, where the operator sits in the center and is surrounded by armor plating and operates the weapon arms remotely.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
According to B&C, Salamaders get re-rolls for both flame AND melta weapons. Might be too OP if true, coupled with Vulkan making Meltas MC, that means any tank that gets in Melta-Range it all but guaranteed to get popped.


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 Exergy wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Just saw the Centurion rules, T5, 2+, NO ++ save, 60 pts each basic.

Its official, centurions are the new Mutilators...

with twinlinked flamers, ATSKNF, str9 ap2 armor bane at init, and grenades they are both cheaper than mutilators(61 points with MoN) and considerably better.

the shooting versions look better than obliterators too.

I was mostly talking about the shooty ones, but the assault ones also have Slow and Purposeful, and apparently cant deep strike (B&C dont say), which means you NEED a LR to get them anywhere. Thats at least 440 pts right there. You might as well just take hammernators, roughly the same price and since they have a ++ and Centurions don't, are much more survivable.

For all of those that have seen the rules for Centurions, how many wounds do they have? This will make or break the unit for me. I see no use for a 60+ point model without an invulnerable save and only 1 wound.

2 wounds


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 kitch102 wrote:

Senortaco wrote:
I can imagine the centurions being just
unstoppable in kill-team games

Really? My liquifiers, blasters, dark lances, mass poisoned weapons, and power weapon totting Archon would like to disagree

still not going to be able to face off against Pink Horrors

Do we know how many attacks do the Centurions have?

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Pretty sure tyranid MCs care much less about these graviton weapons compared to the dreadknight and riptide...there are a lot more bugs and they're a lot sturdier.
Finding the right mix of graviton to plasma is going to be the key.

from what I have seen of the grav guns they are salvo(other than the pistol)
3 shots from the gun or 5 shots from the cannon would be nastier than most plasma which is limited to 2 shots.
Of course the grav gun will suffer like most salvo weapons. When you move it becomes completely useless.

Yes and the "Grav Cannons" are on Centruions, witch are S&P

yes my point, so 5 twinlinked shots that wound on 2,3+?
Say you have 3 centurians firing at a riptide
13.33 hits
11.11 wounds
7.40 wounds after the 5++
dread riptide
or against a stock wraithknight
13.33 hits
8.66 wounds
dead wraithknight
Firing at a vehicle isnt that great though.
13.33 hits
2.221 imobilized and hull points stripped.
It is nice that you can get imobilized but it wont kill that LR demolisher that is about to smash your centurians.

Well first of all presuming that they would get 5 TL AP2 shots that wound on 2's each is very optimistic and second of all, I'd like you to know how many times the price of a Riptide that would cost, the range of those weapons (36'' or bust basically) and the fact that they're crap at shooting anything else, while being extremely vulnerable to return fire as Riptides get S8 AP2 pie plates and they have no invulnerable. So either sit in cover you have to invest many points into, go to ground or sit in a convenient building you won't always have.

I am assuming that 83% of the shots wound.

My stats are off it seems as it looks like they dont get TL Gravcannon but a Gravcannon and a gravamp, which rerolls to wound instead of rerolling to hit. Makes it 3 cents will do 6.41 wounds to a riptide
Still if you are ultramarines with the reroll 1s you are going to have even higher wounds.
The riptide can fire his ion accelerator, but with a direct hit he is likely only getting 2 under the template. 1.66 wounds, 1.11 if they didnt strip cover. That doesnt even kill one T5 guy. IH will have FNP and IWND to make them harder to kill.
And yes, 36" as in if the riptide is deployed on the table, even in the back then cents can deploy at the edge of their deployment zone and hit him without even moving unless you are playing hammer and anvil.
Looks like a centurian with a gravcannon is 75 points, so 3 will be 225(not that much more than a tide)

They counter riptides pretty hard. I dont think they are good enough to for TAC(they get screwed as often as not), but yes I would probably take them if I knew my opponent was running 3 riptides.


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 praetor24 wrote:
Do we know how many attacks do the Centurions have?

looks like 1 for the shooty type and 2 for the melee type. Not sure whether the melee type get 3 for having 2 weapons.

Cheers for the quick reply.

 praetor24 wrote:
Do we know how many attacks do the Centurions have?

Regular Cents have 1, Cent Sgts have 2 and Assault Cents add +1 to that for having paired Specialist Weapons.

Anyone for Tigrius leading a unit of Cents with Grav Cannons? Especially since Tigrius can take Divinations

Was there word on if the transport capacity on the Razorback is still six? I'd be bummed if I lost a delivery method for a plasma-command squad with a Captain.

Strangely one of the Units I'm most excited for is the Chapter Master. +1W and +1A means he's finally worth considering in comparison to a Captain, and hopefully he'll be able to take wargear the captain can't.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Strangely one of the Units I'm most excited for is the Chapter Master. +1W and +1A means he's finally worth considering in comparison to a Captain, and hopefully he'll be able to take wargear the captain can't.

I doubt he will get +1W, A and the bombardment for only 25points. Really depends on how it works out.

 beigeknight wrote:
Was there word on if the transport capacity on the Razorback is still six? I'd be bummed if I lost a delivery method for a plasma-command squad with a Captain.

Considering they're releasing a set of a Command Squad, Razorback and Plastic Chaplain, I'd say: yes.

 Exergy wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Strangely one of the Units I'm most excited for is the Chapter Master. +1W and +1A means he's finally worth considering in comparison to a Captain, and hopefully he'll be able to take wargear the captain can't.

I doubt he will get +1W, A and the bombardment for only 25points. Really depends on how it works out.

I'd have no problem if they removed Orbital Bombardment. I can't think of a single time I've ever seen it be effective.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Anyone for Tigrius leading a unit of Cents with Grav Cannons? Especially since Tigrius can take Divinations

You can already get twin-linked on the whole army without needing div

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Strangely one of the Units I'm most excited for is the Chapter Master. +1W and +1A means he's finally worth considering in comparison to a Captain, and hopefully he'll be able to take wargear the captain can't.

I doubt he will get +1W, A and the bombardment for only 25points. Really depends on how it works out.

I'd have no problem if they removed Orbital Bombardment. I can't think of a single time I've ever seen it be effective.

I think they may do away with it. Dark angels didn't get it, not even Azreal.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Anyone for Tigrius leading a unit of Cents with Grav Cannons? Especially since Tigrius can take Divinations

Prescience doesn't seem worth it since your playing UM and probably already rerolling 1's. Though perfect timing or forewarning would be nice.


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 jetstumpy wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Strangely one of the Units I'm most excited for is the Chapter Master. +1W and +1A means he's finally worth considering in comparison to a Captain, and hopefully he'll be able to take wargear the captain can't.

I doubt he will get +1W, A and the bombardment for only 25points. Really depends on how it works out.

I'd have no problem if they removed Orbital Bombardment. I can't think of a single time I've ever seen it be effective.

I think they may do away with it. Dark angels didn't get it, not even Azreal.

Possibly, of course you comparing apples to oranges here.

 jetstumpy wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Strangely one of the Units I'm most excited for is the Chapter Master. +1W and +1A means he's finally worth considering in comparison to a Captain, and hopefully he'll be able to take wargear the captain can't.

I doubt he will get +1W, A and the bombardment for only 25points. Really depends on how it works out.

I'd have no problem if they removed Orbital Bombardment. I can't think of a single time I've ever seen it be effective.

I think they may do away with it. Dark angels didn't get it, not even Azreal.

I mean sure, it might not be there but I am just saying the extra wound and attack really depend on how much it costs.

 Exergy wrote:

 jetstumpy wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Strangely one of the Units I'm most excited for is the Chapter Master. +1W and +1A means he's finally worth considering in comparison to a Captain, and hopefully he'll be able to take wargear the captain can't.

I doubt he will get +1W, A and the bombardment for only 25points. Really depends on how it works out.

I'd have no problem if they removed Orbital Bombardment. I can't think of a single time I've ever seen it be effective.

I think they may do away with it. Dark angels didn't get it, not even Azreal.

I mean sure, it might not be there but I am just saying the extra wound and attack really depend on how much it costs.

Well it's probably similar to the GK GM to Brother Captain differential.

So there have been many comments on the IF chapter tactics not effecting Sternguard, but I will have to wait for the actual release to get a look at the wording of both the chapter tactic and the Sternguard load out.

I have to wonder if the current interpretation of the IF rules are just that, an interpretation. Do the rules specifically state SG special ammo is excluded, or is the rumor poster just making that assumption because the rule states re-roll 1s with boltguns only? Currently, SG are armed with boltguns, and the special ammo doesn't change that (just changes the profile). Has the wargear list for the SG changed? Maybe combi bolters specifically are not included, which would exclude a number of SG builds?

Man, September can't get here soon enough....

This may have already been covered but seeing this is now +100 pages I am just going to ask, are the special chapter books going to be released alongside the vanilla book?

I could see Chapter Masters adding a wound and attack and staying 125, seeing as captains will likely drop 10 points, or going up to 135 or 140.

"Well it's probably similar to the GK GM to Brother Captain differential."

Except the grand master has a bevy of special rules that make him worth the extra points, not just +1 wound.

DogofWar1 wrote:
I could see Chapter Masters adding a wound and attack and staying 125, seeing as captains will likely drop 10 points, or going up to 135 or 140.

Consider a wolf lord is 100 flat and has 4 attacks base and just one less wound and I doubt CM or captains will be that expensive. Especially since my wolf lord is over priced when you consider a chaos lord is only 65! Nah, SM HQs need a drastic drop in points IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jetstumpy wrote:

"Well it's probably similar to the GK GM to Brother Captain differential."

Except the grand master has a bevy of special rules that make him worth the extra points, not just +1 wound.

Which is why I said look at the % differential not the raw costs. The two GK HQ's definitely need to cost more for gear and powers but the difference between them shouldn't be that much different.

 Red Corsair wrote:

DogofWar1 wrote:
I could see Chapter Masters adding a wound and attack and staying 125, seeing as captains will likely drop 10 points, or going up to 135 or 140.

Consider a wolf lord is 100 flat and has 4 attacks base and just one less wound and I doubt CM or captains will be that expensive. Especially since my wolf lord is over priced when you consider a chaos lord is only 65! Nah, SM HQs need a drastic drop in points IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jetstumpy wrote:

"Well it's probably similar to the GK GM to Brother Captain differential."

Except the grand master has a bevy of special rules that make him worth the extra points, not just +1 wound.

Which is why I said look at the % differential not the raw costs. The two GK HQ's definitely need to cost more for gear and powers but the difference between them shouldn't be that much different.

A Chaos Lord doesn't have a 4++ save, to give him one costs 25pts, which puts him at 90pts, the same cost as a DA company master, which no doubt will be the cost of a Captain.

SW Wolf Lords are overcosted I agree, they need to be 100pts with a 4++ save, or 75pts without one.

As for the Chapter Master, I'll be fine if they stay the same points IF and only if they get +1W and +1A. It would be well worth it (5 relic blade attacks on the charge, awesome!).

Any word on potential changes to relic blades now that they were mentioned?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

DogofWar1 wrote:
I could see Chapter Masters adding a wound and attack and staying 125, seeing as captains will likely drop 10 points, or going up to 135 or 140.

Consider a wolf lord is 100 flat and has 4 attacks base and just one less wound and I doubt CM or captains will be that expensive. Especially since my wolf lord is over priced when you consider a chaos lord is only 65! Nah, SM HQs need a drastic drop in points IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jetstumpy wrote:

"Well it's probably similar to the GK GM to Brother Captain differential."

Except the grand master has a bevy of special rules that make him worth the extra points, not just +1 wound.

Which is why I said look at the % differential not the raw costs. The two GK HQ's definitely need to cost more for gear and powers but the difference between them shouldn't be that much different.

A Chaos Lord doesn't have a 4++ save, to give him one costs 25pts, which puts him at 90pts, the same cost as a DA company master, which no doubt will be the cost of a Captain.

SW Wolf Lords are overcosted I agree, they need to be 100pts with a 4++ save, or 75pts without one.

As for the Chapter Master, I'll be fine if they stay the same points IF and only if they get +1W and +1A. It would be well worth it (5 relic blade attacks on the charge, awesome!).

Well I was assuming cost without the Halo but otherwise either way I agree.


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 davou wrote:
Any word on potential changes to relic blades now that they were mentioned?

Aren't relic blades in the DA codex? I would imagine them to remain consistent if they are.

Has it been confirmed or anyone read that grav weapons ignore armor save?. I have read all over the place they wound equals to models save, not that they ignore it. I dont think they will ignore it, that would make them the default best weapon with no downside for every chapter that can use them since, If they have bad save you dont need them and your bolters do the job, and if they have good save then you have the best specialist you could want, there is literally no downside to use them. When melta ruled 5th, it still had the short range downside, plasma in 6th has the overheat downside, i doubt they would make a best gun ever, with no downside what so ever, and yeah moving rapid firing weapons and 12" range for this gun i dont consider it a downside, unlike melta in 5th now you can move and fire your bolters.

Can anyone confirm they do indeed ignore saves?.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Has it been confirmed or anyone read that grav weapons ignore armor save?. I have read all over the place they wound equals to models save, not that they ignore it. I dont think they will ignore it, that would make them the default best weapon with no downside for every chapter that can use them since, If they have bad save you dont need them and your bolters do the job, and if they have good save then you have the best specialist you could want, there is literally no downside to use them.

Can anyone confirm they do indeed ignore saves?.

No real confirmation until the book comes out, but all the rumors point to AP2.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Has it been confirmed or anyone read that grav weapons ignore armor save?. I have read all over the place they wound equals to models save, not that they ignore it. I dont think they will ignore it, that would make them the default best weapon with no downside for every chapter that can use them since, If they have bad save you dont need them and your bolters do the job, and if they have good save then you have the best specialist you could want, there is literally no downside to use them.

Can anyone confirm they do indeed ignore saves?.

Everything I have read has them listed at AP2 though I haven't seen one summary for all the effects.

From what I have gathered so far they are salvo, wound on armor save roll and AP 2 with some bizarre effect against vehicles which I haven't fully learned but apparently they strip HP's and immobilize them on 6's? Oh and the have concussive.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Everything I have read has them listed at AP2 though I haven't seen one summary for all the effects.

From what I have gathered so far they are salvo, wound on armor save roll and AP 2 with some bizarre effect against vehicles which I haven't fully learned but apparently they strip HP's and immobilize them on 6's? Oh and the have concussive.

Being a marine player, i sinceraly hope they are not ap2, i would like no better than ap4+, it would make them simply too good, there would be no reason to use something else.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Has it been confirmed or anyone read that grav weapons ignore armor save?. I have read all over the place they wound equals to models save, not that they ignore it. I dont think they will ignore it, that would make them the default best weapon with no downside for every chapter that can use them since, If they have bad save you dont need them and your bolters do the job, and if they have good save then you have the best specialist you could want, there is literally no downside to use them. When melta ruled 5th, it still had the short range downside, plasma in 6th has the overheat downside, i doubt they would make a best gun ever, with no downside what so ever, and yeah moving rapid firing weapons and 12" range for this gun i dont consider it a downside, unlike melta in 5th now you can move and fire your bolters.

Can anyone confirm they do indeed ignore saves?.

They counter MCs with the concusive rule.

being salvo, they are only really good when standing still, plasma and melta are good on the move

Plasma will be better against Teq
melta for ID/ vehicles
neither plasma nor melta is useless against ork boys. Models with grav weapons are better pulling out their bolt pistol than using the grav rifle on an ork.



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xxvaderxx wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Everything I have read has them listed at AP2 though I haven't seen one summary for all the effects.

From what I have gathered so far they are salvo, wound on armor save roll and AP 2 with some bizarre effect against vehicles which I haven't fully learned but apparently they strip HP's and immobilize them on 6's? Oh and the have concussive.

Being a marine player, i sinceraly hope they are not ap2, i would like no better than ap4+, it would make them simply too good, there would be no reason to use something else.

even if it is ap2,
the fact that you cant fire them on the move well
the fact that they cannot ID things
the fact they are nearly useless against vehicles
the fact that they are nearlly useless against Geq and worse
the fact that they may cost more than a melta or plasma
the fact that even against Meq(3+) melta or plasma is better

I see a lot of reasons to use other things.