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Dear Games Workshop,

Why - in the name of all that is holy - did you NOT give us C:SM players a Dozer Blade wargear to take into our Land Raiders? Dark Angels get it, too! Hell, even foul traitors manage to weld it to theirs!
WHY NOT US? WHAT IS THIS JUNK?

Sincerely
Tigra

But jokes aside, people. I apologise for some hatred upon the matter, but really: is there any REAL and logical reason for NOT to have that wargear? It was one of my most wanted additions to the army (among the reduced points cost) that I highly anticipated to get into the next codex, but my hope was utterly smashed. I truly hope they'll fix this in a next FAQ.

"Gee, Tigra, why would you ever want Dozer Blade for a Land Raider?", you may ask. Allow me to respond to you with a counter-question: What kind of land is it supposed to raid when it immobilises to the first finger-sized pebble it hits?

Most of the matches I've played and used a Land Raider to get to the opponent's deployment zone, my poor nigh-indestructable mobile fortress of death permanently stops to a sorry piece of twig that stuck to its treads. My friend's Land Raider has immobilised when trying to PIVOT the damn thing over the ruins, which sounds even more ridiculous.

According to the literature, aren't these machines of war meant to be laughing at obstacles? What about Move Through Cover -special rule? Give us at least the damn Dozer Blade.

Be grateful for the things you have, not bitter about the things you don't.

The chaos legions would like to speak to you about not having LR variants, or indeed Legions...

Edit: or daemons...

Your are the angle of death, the space marine, the best of the best.... cry baby.

You mean angel, right?

hellpato wrote:Your are the angle of death, the space marine, the best of the best.... cry baby.

Jackal wrote:You mean angel, right?

He is trying to view space marines from a different vantage.

Just want to point out, in the real world, pivoting in place, especially in rough terrain, can easily cause a tank to throw a tread (ie immobilize itself). So getting immobilized in a pivot in ruins is not only plausible, it's realistic.


End realism.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Be grateful for the things you have, not bitter about the things you don't.

How strict way to think things.

While I like the new codex and many updates made to it, that doesn't mean that I should keep my mouth shut about the negative sides.
Balance, my good sir, balance! There are good things, and there are bad things. I have a right to both compliment and bitch about things. There's nothing bad in bitterness, as long as it doesn't become obsessive or exclusive.
Land Raiders without an ability to move through obstacles with ease is illogical and destroys its original purpose: being an assault vehicle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hellpato wrote:
Your are the angle of death, the space marine, the best of the best.... cry baby.

In the literature, yes - on the table, not so much.

I tell you what.
You can have your Dozer Blades, when Chaos Marines get their Drop Pods.

Mozzamanx wrote:
I tell you what.
You can have your Dozer Blades, when Chaos Marines get their Drop Pods.

A fair trade. I'd sign my name to that petition!

 Tigramans wrote:
Dear Games Workshop,

Why - in the name of all that is holy - did you NOT give us C:SM players a Dozer Blade wargear to take into our Land Raiders? Dark Angels get it, too! Hell, even foul traitors manage to weld it to theirs!

]

Excessive emotional intensity aside, this makes sense as something to GW to address in errata. Even assault vehicles with forward exit ramps should be able to fit a dozer blade that retracts out of the way or that the ramp just drops down on top of.

I tell my opponents not to roll for immobilization when driving over small debris/ crushable obstacles, especially with the land raider. The rules are there to make an engaging, immersive experience. Having a land raider blow its treads on a shrubbery is stupid, so I tell my opponents to disregard it.


I think Dawn of War 2 was more realistic with the terrain. Most vehicles just shatter it to pieces.

Two things;

Do people honestly buy the dozer blades for Land Raiders? I mean, where does it even go?

And its not named after the fact that it raids land, but actually named after a fellow who's last name happened to be Land.

Mozzamanx wrote:
I tell you what.
You can have your Dozer Blades, when Chaos Marines get their Drop Pods.

Sadly Forgeworld already made your Dreadclaws so GW never will.

Wow, this is silly. If you really want to, house rule it. It's a 5 point upgrade. It's better than sending a pointlessly whiny letter to Games Workshop full of capslocked lunacy.

 Blacksails wrote:
Two things;

Do people honestly buy the dozer blades for Land Raiders? I mean, where does it even go?

And its not named after the fact that it raids land, but actually named after a fellow who's last name happened to be Land.

I put dozer blades on mine because they look awesome with them.

A kitbashed Ares with a dozerblade looks totally boss.

 Kain wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Two things;

Do people honestly buy the dozer blades for Land Raiders? I mean, where does it even go?

And its not named after the fact that it raids land, but actually named after a fellow who's last name happened to be Land.

I put dozer blades on mine because they look awesome with them.

A kitbashed Ares with a dozerblade looks totally boss.

I can't help but picture it completely blocking the front assault ramp...which would kinda negate the purpose of a Land Raider.

I've seen conversions with dozer blades over just the treaded parts, like a pair of them, but it tends to look goofy.

Oh, weird. Never seen it done, I'm just imagining a giant dozer across the whole front. Which looks incredibly silly in my head.

They tend to look like this; even if the conversion is really well executed and integrated into the design well, the weird gap in the middle looks silly:

Right, I understand now.

Still looks pretty awkward.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Two things;

Do people honestly buy the dozer blades for Land Raiders? I mean, where does it even go?

And its not named after the fact that it raids land, but actually named after a fellow who's last name happened to be Land.

I put dozer blades on mine because they look awesome with them.

A kitbashed Ares with a dozerblade looks totally boss.

I can't help but picture it completely blocking the front assault ramp...which would kinda negate the purpose of a Land Raider.

For transporting Land Raiders, go with what SRM posted.

For the Ares and Terminus Ultra, which both completely lack transport ability in favor of more guns, just have the Dozer blade out in front.

Land Raiders are a vehicle I feel like you don't need to model a dozer blade on just because they're so large, and because dozers look so silly on them. I can't imagine something that big getting caught up on a small wooden fence or something.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Land Raiders are a vehicle I feel like you don't need to model a dozer blade on just because they're so large, and because dozers look so silly on them. I can't imagine something that big getting caught up on a small wooden fence or something.

Perhaps small debris and shrubs are like Kryptonite to the Land Raider's Superman.

 Blacksails wrote:
Two things;

Do people honestly buy the dozer blades for Land Raiders? I mean, where does it even go?

And its not named after the fact that it raids land, but actually named after a fellow who's last name happened to be Land.

A solution, as SisterSydney mentioned: a retractable variant.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Even assault vehicles with forward exit ramps should be able to fit a dozer blade that retracts out of the way or that the ramp just drops down on top of.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother SRM wrote:
They tend to look like this; even if the conversion is really well executed and integrated into the design well, the weird gap in the middle looks silly:

Oh, I love that idea!

But when it comes to "house ruling" the dozer blade to C:SM use, that sounds like favouring another player, or handicapping the others. I can try that and discuss about it with my mates and see what they think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Wow, this is silly. If you really want to, house rule it. It's a 5 point upgrade. It's better than sending a pointlessly whiny letter to Games Workshop full of capslocked lunacy.

I take that as missing the joke of the concept of the "whiny letter". I'm not sending that anywhere. I was just making my point.
It's still illogical not to grant the upgrade for SM, as Land Raider's role is to get in fast, and unload something frightening from its depths. It's an assault vehicle, not a tank that camps on your deployment zone (unless Heavy Support are able to score/cap on the scenario, AND it's not Dedicated Transport). If you invest it to make it serve as a main battle tank on the table, you're out of your mind.

My point still stands.

Given the poor design of the Land Raider it should actually be really bad at terrain and very slow as tanks go.

End realism.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 Tigramans wrote:
Dear Games Workshop,

Why - in the name of all that is holy - did you NOT give us C:SM players a Dozer Blade wargear to take into our Land Raiders? Dark Angels get it, too! Hell, even foul traitors manage to weld it to theirs!

]

Excessive emotional intensity aside, this makes sense as something to GW to address in errata. Even assault vehicles with forward exit ramps should be able to fit a dozer blade that retracts out of the way or that the ramp just drops down on top of.

Considering how specific the codex is about those dozer blades, I don't see an errata to the C:SM book "fixing it". Maybe one to the other books to remove their option of it instead.

Every codex has to have a few blatant typos. Imperial Guard special weapons teams are literally the only non-vehicle unit in the entire codex that doesn't have frag grenades. The chaos hellbrute is the only demon engine that doesn't have the demon rule.

This just seems like one of those. And, like all the other silly little mistakes, don't imagine that they'll get erratad either. Looks like you're stuck without track protectors for awhile now.

Modelling-wise, if I ever get around to doing a land raider, its dozer blade would look like the one on the vindicator, I'd think. Or, because it would be a chaos one, those little hedge things they used to put on shermans.



With the jagged bitz welded to the top of the split-hatch pointing down (so, it would be like an extention to the hatch piece). That way there would be the brush spikes front and center to clear away stuff and they'd get out of the way when the door opened, what with being welded to the door itself.

 Ailaros wrote:
Every codex has to have a few blatant typos. Imperial Guard special weapons teams are literally the only non-vehicle unit in the entire codex that doesn't have frag grenades. The chaos hellbrute is the only demon engine that doesn't have the demon rule.

This just seems like one of those. And, like all the other silly little mistakes, don't imagine that they'll get erratad either. Looks like you're stuck without track protectors for awhile now.

Modelling-wise, if I ever get around to doing a land raider, its dozer blade would look like the one on the vindicator, I'd think. Or, because it would be a chaos one, those little hedge things they used to put on shermans.



With the jagged bitz welded to the top of the split-hatch pointing down (so, it would be like an extention to the hatch piece). That way there would be the brush spikes front and center to clear away stuff and they'd get out of the way when the door opened, what with being welded to the door itself.

Helbrutes aren't really Daemon Engines. Their more like what you'd get if you mixed a Obliterator with a Dreadnought and a bucket of crazy.

But obliterators are demons...

... and so is every non-tracked vehicle in the CSM arsenal. You can also make any tracked vehicle a demon by taking the demon upgrade from the vehicle upgrade section...

... which the hellbrute doesn't have access to...

... which is another typo.