pretre wrote:If you were aware of the history of the army, you would know that this is far from the first time that priests and ecclesiarchy were a central part of the list.
Keep flogging that talking point though.
Because when Codex: Tau came out, and people called it "Codex: Markerlights", they were referring to markerlights being new!
To make it clear: Priests (and conclave spam) is the most inarguably buffed part of the book. Funnily enough, the part that is not "Sisters of Battle"
ClockworkZion wrote:
Some people just fail to understand what "Militant Arm of the Ecclesiarchy" means I suppose.
I think the new option to bring large amounts of Arco-Flagellants is kind of neat. We get a way to provide (relatively) cheap screening units, and the Conclaves give the army some nice combat counter punch without messing with the Sisters themselves too much. Even outside of that the Priests aren't a bad buff to the army either and they're points cost makes sense (10pt model + 15pt Rosarius). They're not too overpowered, provide some nice buffs and fit the army nicely. I think some people just have to be Negative Nancies about everything though.
1. See above. Some of us also prefer to stick to the "Sisters of Battle" roots, but that's a taste thing not an actual rules argument.
2. Arco-Flags are 10ppm for T3 with
FnP (5+). Battle Sisters are 12ppm for T3 with 3+/6++. For just about every single weapon out there, Sisters are a far better screening unit than Arcos especially for 2ppm. Against anything S6+
BSS are better. Against anything AP<3 Sisters are better. The only weapon, off the top of my head, where Arcos are a better wrap is the Reaper Launcher. S5 AP3 means the 5+
FnP is better than the 6++ for Shield of Faith. Arcos don't even have squad size advantage over
BSS because they're limited to 10. Their only advantage is not taking a force org slot, but when was the last time someone fielded 6
BSS squads?
3. "[Priests are] not too overpowered". "[Priests'] point cost makes sense". Are they overpowered, or appropriately costed?
25 points for a priest is a steal. 25 points to provide Fearless and Hatred (constantly, as opposed to once per game like the Canoness mind), on a model with a built in 4++. Absolute steal. No argument here.
I'm not simply wanting to be a negative nancy. Quite the opposite. I wanted this new book to be good. It's nice to want things.
Breakdown of badness:
Acts of Faith: I'll detail specific acts by unit. Once per game, per unit, is not scaling. It's stupid, especially with how weak most
AoF are and how limited in scope they are. This is supposed to be the army defining ability. Well, I suppose in a way it does define the
AS army: weak.
IG Orders (as an example of another Army ability) are way more useful, and yet are used multiple times a turn. I'm sure there are others I can't think of, but the only other "Once Per Game" army ability I can think of (as opposed to unit abilities like a
SM CM Orbital Strike) is the Ork Waaagh!. (Which is also widely considered weak...) I also suspect people will play their timing all wrong again, but we'll get to that below under the
SCS. "But Stream, with certain wargear you can get 1 more
AoF per game for a unit!" I'm glad you said that Other Stream, because that brings up point 1:
Imagifier: Lose the model, no acts of Faith at all for that unit anymore! Guess whose eating Barrage and Precision shots first? And she can't
LoS! as she's not a character. It's dumb that an item we pay for to use weak abilities more than once per Game! also means we might lose them entirely.
Relics:
Blade of Admonition:
SM Relic blade. Except the
SM Relic Blade is not one per army, and is on a more durable, stronger, better
CC model. Oh, it's also 5 points CHEAPER.
Cloak of Saint Aspira: 20 points to reroll armor saves is okay I guess. Because let's be real, a Priest probably isn't taking this and a Canoness isn't taking this without a Rosarius. (Which the cloak doesn't do anything for.)
Units:
Celestine: Her new
AoF at least gets her up with full wounds, but she's still T3 with no Eternal Warrior. I guess at least the Ardent Blade is no longer a heavy flamer, so it can hurt an Avatar? I dunno, I'm stretching there. Not much nerf here actually. Oh, and while I understand
RAW says if you opt not to use her
AoF then opponents don't get points for Slay the Warlord and the like, but let's be real. That's probably not
RAI.
Canoness: Still no jump pack option, so if you want a leader for your Seraphim you're forced to take Celestine. Her
AoF gives Hatred, which priests have without a leadership test of any kind. Practically the definition of "weaksauce".
Sororitas Command Squad: As I said before, their new
AoF is useless if you wanted to run Heavy Weapon
SCS. I used to run one with 3
MMs, as Relentless made taking the
MM actually an option. Fun Fact: According to
RAW, their
AoF does
nothing to assist in a charge, as the
AoF must be used
immediately before they strike in
CC! So Fleet, for example, can't be used to reroll when charging. You also have to use it before you know if you've won a
CC, so the Sweeping Advance portion of Crusader is a bit of a gamble. Good times. Good times. (Before you go crazy, I suspect like the Celestine
AoF that this is NOT
RAI.)
BSS: No actual real complaints here. Losing the regroup portion of Light of the Emperor sucks, but meh. Smaller squads is nice, as at least if you do take a Canoness now you can fit her into a
DT somewhere.
Celestians: You can get Furious Charge once per game! Go you! Still can't take power weapons, or anything to make you actually good in
CC, but +1S if you pass a leadership test and didn't make a disorganized charge! Let's face it. If you take a Simulacrum in this unit, you probably won't get to use your
AoF anyway. Even the option to swap bolters for
CCWs would have been helpful, but that's not exactly a nerf since it's nice like they could before. So still bad.
Repentia: Remember that special rule you used to have all the time? Now you get a boosted version once per game, that you can't use against shooting at all (even Overwatch!). Best hope your opponents aren't I4 or better, or you don't get to use it against
CC attacks either! If the Mistress dies, you don't get to use it until I1!
Seraphim: No real change to their
AoF. Still no eviscerator, but also Power Sword only now for some stupid reason. Also kept the I3 nerf from the
WD codex, which is just bad.
Dominions: Getting 4 special weapons in a 5 girl squad back? Yay!
AoF next to pointless for most builds? Boo! We've covered that before though, and people assure me that Ignore Cover once per game is better than TLing their weapons to make sure meltas hit. I remain skeptical. Also I feel the need to bring back up the hilarious nerf to Storm Bolters by making them 2 points more per gun. They actually made a hilariously bad option worse.
Retributors: Rending is still nice, even once per game. Sidelines HBtributors, but HFtributor suicide squads will be back at least! Woo. *finger twirl*
PEs: Attack nerf on two fronts, but hey, who fielded them before anyway right? (Besides me, I mean.) At least you save a whole 15 points on a squad of 3!
Exorcists: Still love these things. Still get dirty looks for plopping down 2 of em. Can't imagine the looks I'll get for 3.
Synergy:
There is some new synergy to the book: Priests. That's about it.
AoF don't really work with each other all that well, or at all, with the exception of Canoness + Celestians. Which is hilariously bad, because you have 2
CC AoF on two nonCC units. Canoness +
SCS 'works' okay, but it really doesn't do enough to make all 6 models actually good in
CC.
The new Warlord Traits are alright, but some are just laughable.
1: Fear? Really? One of, if not the MOST, pointless rules in the game.
2: If I only ever rolled up this Trait, I would be happy.
3: Useful against mostly Eldar, but they have buff options on most of their powers which would circumvent your DtW roll anyway.
4: Rage is so good for all our
CC warlords! All... 0 of them?
5: Funnily enough, this does more for Priests than
SoB. It's also worse than the Laud Hailer,
IMO, as reroll 8/9 > one shot 10.
6: 12" stubborn bubble is decent enough.
Well there you go. Round 1 of my reasoning for why my
SoB models will either be painted green and called Salamanders, or stay on their shelf next to Nids. 0 real problems fixed,
AoF neutered, but hey! I can field a bunch of Priests and Conclaves for my
SoB army!
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. 
