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So I was talking a second look at the picture with the massive cathedral and I don't think it's feasible at that size as anything.

Why? If you look really closely at the image I put in the spoilers you might catch why:


Did you see it? The masses leading from the foreground to the cathedral in the back? You see how they become itty-bitty tiny specks right next to the thing? Yeah, that think is likely a couple MILES long.

Still playing with the idea, but I need to play with things more to really see what I can come up with I think.

Technically, no Tracked Cathedral needs to look exactly like another. I somehow doubt this is a serial production model.

That aside, you could always pull the "artwork =/= real thing" card. Look at the Living Saint on that pic. And the Penitent Engine also isn't that big as a model.

From what I understand, One of the biggest differences, and why the Space marines prefer the Rhino over the Chimera is that the Rhino is air-drop capable while the Chimera is not. And since it can be air dropped, its better suited to the rapid deployment of the marines.

The Chimera has its strong points too. having more and better built in weapons, more fire ports, as well as being aquatic.

 Lynata wrote:
Technically, no Tracked Cathedral needs to look exactly like another. I somehow doubt this is a serial production model.

That aside, you could always pull the "artwork =/= real thing" card. Look at the Living Saint on that pic. And the Penitent Engine also isn't that big as a model.

It's called perspective, as if you were on the ground, seeing this. That thing is MASSIVE. I'd love to know the context how it came to be. Both fluff and art.

And I know they don't all need to be the same but when I looked closely that thing was bigger than I'd expected it to be and I just wanted people to know that maybe we need to look at something a bit...smaller.

 Lynata wrote:
You're welcome

aka_mythos wrote:How hard would it then be to give the SoB a predecessor to either or both of the two? That is the root of those two marine vehicles, such an aircraft would give them something unique while also justifying why SM don't use them. Writing some fluff about some older less specialized aircraft that developed into the Stormraven and Stormtalon.It wouldn't be an inferior aircraft just something not as specialized.

Well, technically, why should it not be the Valkyrie? It's not like IG stuff must be inferior to Marine equipment, often it just serves a different capacity.

Take the Rhino, for example. The only areas where it could be considered better than a Chimaera is air-drop capability and the ease to repair it in the field. This suits both Marine (and Sororitas) method and speed of deployment, as well as making it more reliable for forces that, unlike the lumbering behemoth that is a full regiment of the Imperial Guard, may be crippled if only a single vehicle breaks down. The Chimaera, however, is better armoured and better armed, suitable for an army that prefers a simplistic but brutally efficient head-on assault. It's just a matter of specialisations.

So, what exactly are the differences between the Valkyrie and the Stormraven? Am I right in assuming (from the first looks) that a somewhat viable comparison might be a Bell UH-1E helo to a Mil Mi-24 Hind gunship?

I have my agenda of seeing SoB with more unique and distinct units. So I'm admittedly looking for ways such units can be justified.

The Valkyrie is admittedly some of the most advance vehicles available to the IG, but consider how much bigger and more heavily armed SM aircraft are despite having smaller engines than a Valkyrie. That's representative of the tech gap between those two groups.

If SoB are so privileged to receive power armor, bolters, and rhino variants I tend to believe they'd continued to be equipped comparably to SM even if equipped differently.

ClockworkZion wrote:It's called perspective, as if you were on the ground, seeing this.

Thanks, I did have art in school too. ;p
Look at the PE model - the "driver" is about half as big as the Engine, whereas on the drawing it's more like 1/3. The body is much bulkier there.

It's no surprise, really. There are differences just about everywhere. Look at the Sisters' armour. It's called artistic licence.

aka_mythos wrote:The Valkyrie is admittedly some of the most advance vehicles available to the IG, but consider how much bigger and more heavily armed SM aircraft are despite having smaller engines than a Valkyrie.

I'd imagine it's also quite a bit slower and less manoeuverable, more intended as a slow gunship rather than a fast transport. Different focuses, just like with the Chimaera and the Rhino.
Though that's just my interpretation - and of course I have my agenda, too (I just think the Valkyrie design is the sex).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Technically, no Tracked Cathedral needs to look exactly like another. I somehow doubt this is a serial production model.

That aside, you could always pull the "artwork =/= real thing" card. Look at the Living Saint on that pic. And the Penitent Engine also isn't that big as a model.

It's called perspective, as if you were on the ground, seeing this. That thing is MASSIVE. I'd love to know the context how it came to be. Both fluff and art.

And I know they don't all need to be the same but when I looked closely that thing was bigger than I'd expected it to be and I just wanted people to know that maybe we need to look at something a bit...smaller.

I . . . I used to think that was a starship (landed) . . . this is the first time I've noticed the tracks . . . good lord.

 Pendix wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Technically, no Tracked Cathedral needs to look exactly like another. I somehow doubt this is a serial production model.

That aside, you could always pull the "artwork =/= real thing" card. Look at the Living Saint on that pic. And the Penitent Engine also isn't that big as a model.

It's called perspective, as if you were on the ground, seeing this. That thing is MASSIVE. I'd love to know the context how it came to be. Both fluff and art.

And I know they don't all need to be the same but when I looked closely that thing was bigger than I'd expected it to be and I just wanted people to know that maybe we need to look at something a bit...smaller.

I . . . I used to think that was a starship (landed) . . . this is the first time I've noticed the tracks . . . good lord.

Yeah, the Ecclesiarchy likes to go BIG.

 Lynata wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:The Valkyrie is admittedly some of the most advance vehicles available to the IG, but consider how much bigger and more heavily armed SM aircraft are despite having smaller engines than a Valkyrie.

I'd imagine it's also quite a bit slower and less manoeuverable, more intended as a slow gunship rather than a fast transport. Different focuses, just like with the Chimaera and the Rhino.
Though that's just my interpretation - and of course I have my agenda, too (I just think the Valkyrie design is the sex).

Another reason I think SoB shouldn't have Valkyries is that it's a different aesthetic, not cohesive with the other vehicles. Even if SoB had "Valkyries" they wouldn't look identical to the IG models. Consider what FW has done by making Marine Legion Basilisks and inevitable Leman Russ tanks... Same tanks as IG but built to the higher marine standard.

I dunno, I think the Valkyrie's general shape goes quite well with the Rhino in terms of angles etc. Obviously, just like the SoB version of the Rhino, it'd receive some devotional markings and the fleur-de-lis slapped on it, but other than that ...

Matter of preferences yet again, I suppose.

So that's where Sister Nabiki came from. Hehe.

Yeah, the cathedral tank is bigger than Saint Paul's. ^^; Not really battlefield deployable, the only other Imperial vehicles that big are Ordinatii and maybe Leviathans.

What about a mobile shrine, rather than church? Something on the scale of the Cauldron of Blood or the Coven Throne?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
What about a mobile shrine, rather than church? Something on the scale of the Cauldron of Blood or the Coven Throne?

I went bigger for the two I was building - two Land Raider chassis combined into one bigger vehicle, and a 4"*4" building in the middle. Here's the paper prototype, and a scale picture.

That's quite impressive. Do you have rules for it?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
That's quite impressive. Do you have rules for it?

It's pretty close to a reflavoured Stormlord, so that's an easy way to use it without houserules.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
What about a mobile shrine, rather than church? Something on the scale of the Cauldron of Blood or the Coven Throne?

I went bigger for the two I was building - two Land Raider chassis combined into one bigger vehicle, and a 4"*4" building in the middle. Here's the paper prototype, and a scale picture.

Umm....why aren't you working night and day on that until its finished? That looks like its going to be amazing. Needs lots of flame weapons. And a troop ramp so the faithful can charge out of it and smite the heretics.

ugh, daughters of the emperor collection looks so sick, but $700, this i cannot afford.

The land raider church looks great! Only thing I'd do differently is to incorporate more of the church into the hull and make it look more cohesive.

Given the scale in the origina image likely looking at Epic / Dystopian Wars range

That being said love the LR conversion.

So I was productive this weekend and converted up a new Celestine model!

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/10/tutorial-easy-winged-celestine.html

Yes, that says wings, and no, they aren't the organic, mutant kind either. This isn't X-Men after all!

Nicely done!

Well its only a few days now and we can start discussing how to "fix" the latest codex

 Mr Morden wrote:
Nicely done!

Well its only a few days now and we can start discussing how to "fix" the latest codex

Thanks! I like the way it came out myself. Still trying to nail down exactly what I want to do with Sanguinor. I know he'll be terrain but the question is what kind.

Shrine would seem appropriate.

I don't know if it's been said (and I'm too lazy to read through 20+ pages) but right now, I just want a hardback codex.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Shrine would seem appropriate.

That's a thought, as is a half-destroyed fountain...

Like I said, I haven't nailed it down to any one specific thing yet. Either way he'll make a nice bit of statue work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:
I don't know if it's been said (and I'm too lazy to read through 20+ pages) but right now, I just want a hardback codex.

Well I want a trained Polar Bear named Mr. Wiggles but we all can't get what we want now can we?

More seriously, we all do, but it's not going to happen -this month-.

Or year for that matter.

So I've been thinking and I may make some people unhappy with this but......I really don't like the idea of Novices in a Sisters army. It just rings false when I think about it. Sisters are only assigned to an order after they complete their training, at which point they are no longer a novice and instead are assigned to a Battle Sisters Squad under the tutelage of a Sister Superior to train.

So in my opinion at least, keep the Novices off the table. Sisters don't bring them to war, and their basic troops already represent the "raw recruits" so to speak of those who do go to combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Or year for that matter.

Well with it being almost Christmas that's not really a surprise.

I think next year looks pretty promising, but we'll have to see how things fill out to know for sure.

 AlexHolker wrote:

I went bigger for the two I was building - two Land Raider chassis combined into one bigger vehicle, and a 4"*4" building in the middle. Here's the paper prototype, and a scale picture.

Back when Codex-Witch Hunters let us include a Inquisitorial Land Raider I converted one up with banners, extra panels and a whole bunch of stuff from the Immolater kit to make it fit in with the rest of my army. I thought it was a pretty ambitious conversion at the time . . . it does not have anything on that.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I've been thinking and I may make some people unhappy with this but......I really don't like the idea of Novices in a Sisters army. It just rings false when I think about it. Sisters are only assigned to an order after they complete their training, at which point they are no longer a novice and instead are assigned to a Battle Sisters Squad under the tutelage of a Sister Superior to train.

I kinda agree. From what I'm thinking, you'd only really see Novices on the battlefield if their Schola was under threat. I don't think that the Orders Militant would really have, or indeed want them on the battlefield otherwise. Sisters aren't the IG, after all, they're an elite fighting force. They probably wouldn't want to utilise soldiers who hadn't finished their training, or indeed could well still be too young to fight well. From a gameplay view, I understand that they'd neatly fill a niche in the AS army, but I'm not really "feeling it" from a fluff perspective.

On a related note, the first three paragraphs of this page gives a decent overview of how the process of being a Novice and then becoming a Battle Sisters goes.Bascially, they train at their Schola, go to Terra to get blessed by the Ecclesiarch, and then get approached by a Superior from a given Order to go and join said Order. This is also the point where they recieve their power armour, incidentally.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I've been thinking and I may make some people unhappy with this but......I really don't like the idea of Novices in a Sisters army. It just rings false when I think about it. Sisters are only assigned to an order after they complete their training, at which point they are no longer a novice and instead are assigned to a Battle Sisters Squad under the tutelage of a Sister Superior to train.

I see your point, but nothing says "grimdark" like child soldiers. Also I want Gunslinger Girls and Mathilda from Leon the Professional IN SPACE (ok, Mathilda is more Schola age, fine) alongside my Sigourney Weavers and Milla Jovoviches in power armor, because AWESOME.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Troike wrote:
From what I'm thinking, you'd only really see Novices on the battlefield if their Schola was under threat. I don't think that the Orders Militant would really have, or indeed want them on the battlefield otherwise. Sisters aren't the IG, after all, they're an elite fighting force. They probably wouldn't want to utilise soldiers who hadn't finished their training, or indeed could well still be too young to fight well. ...

All true, but remember the Imperium is falling apart. As I wrote in my post writing up a Novice squad, the Adepta Sororitas only send their "Little Sisters" into battle as a desperate measure -- but desperate times call for desperate measures, and in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, times are desperate all the time.

.Bascially, they train at their Schola, go to Terra to get blessed by the Ecclesiarch, and then get approached by a Superior from a given Order to go and join said Order. This is also the point where they recieve their power armour, incidentally.

Confused now...So when and where do they do their Novitiate? At Schola? On Terra?

 Troike wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I've been thinking and I may make some people unhappy with this but......I really don't like the idea of Novices in a Sisters army. It just rings false when I think about it. Sisters are only assigned to an order after they complete their training, at which point they are no longer a novice and instead are assigned to a Battle Sisters Squad under the tutelage of a Sister Superior to train.

I kinda agree. From what I'm thinking, you'd only really see Novices on the battlefield if their Schola was under threat. I don't think that the Orders Militant would really have, or indeed want them on the battlefield otherwise. Sisters aren't the IG, after all, they're an elite fighting force. They probably wouldn't want to utilise soldiers who hadn't finished their training, or indeed could well still be too young to fight well. From a gameplay view, I understand that they'd neatly fill a niche in the AS army, but I'm not really "feeling it" from a fluff perspective.

On a related note, the first three paragraphs of this page gives a decent overview of how the process of being a Novice and then becoming a Battle Sisters goes.Bascially, they train at their Schola, go to Terra to get blessed by the Ecclesiarch, and then get approached by a Superior from a given Order to go and join said Order. This is also the point where they recieve their power armour, incidentally.

Oh neat, fluff!

 SisterSydney wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I've been thinking and I may make some people unhappy with this but......I really don't like the idea of Novices in a Sisters army. It just rings false when I think about it. Sisters are only assigned to an order after they complete their training, at which point they are no longer a novice and instead are assigned to a Battle Sisters Squad under the tutelage of a Sister Superior to train.

I see your point, but nothing says "grimdark" like child soldiers. Also I want Gunslinger Girls and Mathilda from Leon the Professional IN SPACE (ok, Mathilda is more Schola age, fine) alongside my Sigourney Weavers and Milla Jovoviches in power armor, because AWESOME.

Nothing says "Did not do the research" as someone who claims Novices are children. The Scholara starts training people for their future careers at 16, they don't go off to be Sisters until they're 18. Soooo....not children then. If you want child soldiers look at Krieg or some of the other IGs.

So yeah, Novices aren't children either. Sorry but your headcanon is wrong.