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5 points is about all the difference an extra heavy stubber makes anyway. So it makes sense since the Paladin has 2 of them.

Ok, but -- argh -- so why don't they both have two stubbers? Did the bit not fit on the model or something? [headdesk]

Ok i'm a little ocd about symmetry and stuff i'll calm down and drop this now.

 evildrcheese wrote:
I never take storm bolters, my immos want to get within 12" to pop armour and then they're essentially gonna get popped themselves. Sure they can be useful on exorcists for trying to save your big gun but I think the points can almost always be spent on other more useful things.

D

 pretre wrote:
Even on exorcists, they are really a waste of points. The glory of the SOB codex is how cheap everything is. Slapping wargear on it dulls that edge.

 Captain Blood wrote:
If I had the points spare I might add the bolter to the Exorcist. Not the immolators though.

Thanks for that, i do indeed Scout and pop with the dominions MM Immo, so the 5 pts for Storm Bolter is pointless if it dies that turn anyway. Somehow i was thinking it might live past a turn and if anyone's considered that... but i see my foolishness now!

The exorcists however is per experience. I've had Weapons Destroyed rolled twice before i paid the upgrade because i did not know of it's existence. Since then, i've dodged about 75% of the 10-15 odd times weapons destroyed was rolled =D

Between that and being able to snap fire the Organ, anything below a 6 on the Pen table is quite laughable

 BlackTalos wrote:
The exorcists however is per experience. I've had Weapons Destroyed rolled twice before i paid the upgrade because i did not know of it's existence. Since then, i've dodged about 75% of the 10-15 odd times weapons destroyed was rolled =D

Wait. Either you play a LOT of games, or you are remembering incorrectly how many times this has helped you. By the math, this means that you have suffered a minimum of 60-90 pens on your exorcists. Not saying that isn't happening, but that seems pretty high.

Either way, Weapon Destroyed is one result on the table. So they have to Pen and roll that single result for it to be effective. 1/6 of all hits going to be glances, so the SB is useless. Then, even for the pens, 5/6 of those are going to not be weapon destroyed, so almost useless.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Also, when you have one Knight and the enemy has two or more, you really want to hang back, not advance, so they don't get to gang up on your Knight with their giant chainsaws.

Why would you not want that?

A) Keep them busy mid-table so your army can hit the straggler(s)

B)If you position yourself just right, 2 of them will suffer D damage when you blow up (if you get that "hit", it might scatter on just the 1, or none)

C) You don't blow up in the middle of your army, suffering that D damage yourself

D) Not played against a full Knights army yet, but all those D detonations on death must start adding up...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
The exorcists however is per experience. I've had Weapons Destroyed rolled twice before i paid the upgrade because i did not know of it's existence. Since then, i've dodged about 75% of the 10-15 odd times weapons destroyed was rolled =D

Wait. Either you play a LOT of games, or you are remembering incorrectly how many times this has helped you. By the math, this means that you have suffered a minimum of 60-90 pens on your exorcists. Not saying that isn't happening, but that seems pretty high.

Either way, Weapon Destroyed is one result on the table. So they have to Pen and roll that single result for it to be effective. 1/6 of all hits going to be glances, so the SB is useless. Then, even for the pens, 5/6 of those are going to not be weapon destroyed, so almost useless.

They have been penned quite a bit. By memory it's around 5 results of 1-2, 10 of 3(stunned), i've been immobilised twice i think, 10 or so Weapons D. and about 20 Explosions

As i say, it's just the rolls of what i've seen, and the chances are low, but i'd still rather loose a storm bolter than the Organ.
Whenever stuff deep-strikes or gets close it helps too... I think one of my SB killed a deamon prince only last Monday =P

 BlackTalos wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Also, when you have one Knight and the enemy has two or more, you really want to hang back, not advance, so they don't get to gang up on your Knight with their giant chainsaws.

Why would you not want that?

A) Keep them busy mid-table so your army can hit the straggler(s)

B)If you position yourself just right, 2 of them will suffer D damage when you blow up (if you get that "hit", it might scatter on just the 1, or none)

C) You don't blow up in the middle of your army, suffering that D damage yourself

D) Not played against a full Knights army yet, but all those D detonations on death must start adding up...

Concentration of force, mate. Moving your one Knight up to tie down their one Knight is a valid tactic if it lets the rest of your army do really matters. Moving your one Knight up to fight two Knights means you're going down fast without doing much damage in return (unless you get lucky with that D blast scattering -- apparently it's harder than it sounds), and then both their Knights are free to go stompy stompy on the rest of your army.

Although the 1 knight should still have done some damage against 1, 2 or 3 he's got the same chance of damage dealing? He might even kill one if your army has weakened one already, and the tie up is at least a turn for your Exorcists to shoot down the third roaming one.

Unless the current knight meta is all bunched up at the centre? It is really guesswork, but i've played my knight aggressively and it works =D

Depends on who gets to strike first, but over more than one round of combat, the two will kill the one faster than one will kill one, which means the victorious two will take less damage than the victor of a one-on-one combat would.

I'm changing up my list a bit. My main debate is:
Do I use 18 sister blobs or use less sisters and divide them up into 10's and put them in rhinos?

I know this has been debated quite a lot, but is there a definitive answer?

Yes.

I'm also quite curious as to why 7?
What's wrong with 6, 8 or 10? :p

Anyone have any thoughts on a Tempestus alliance? I've been looking over the book some, and I think it could be a nice gap-filler for larger point games (albeit a lot of my interest is in fluff) but how would you run and arm them?

I think the obvious first choice is the Valk formation, but while that gives me a basic shape, it does not give much in the way of details in arming the squads. I'm leaning towards a mix of plasma and volleyguns, as my usual Sisters pack more than enough melta to have fun with.

Can't find any mention anywhere of what the bullgryns do :(

Was hoping they'd be a nice cheap meatshield to stick in front of a priest star unit....

You want meatshields for your Sisters, you gotta make 'em yourself: Here, have some hilarious homebrew Frateris militia (complete with "Assisted Martyrdom" special rule allowing your other units to shoot through them when they're locked in melee, with misses hitting the Frateris in the back).

 SisterSydney wrote:

Concentration of force, mate. Moving your one Knight up to tie down their one Knight is a valid tactic if it lets the rest of your army do really matters. Moving your one Knight up to fight two Knights means you're going down fast without doing much damage in return (unless you get lucky with that D blast scattering -- apparently it's harder than it sounds), and then both their Knights are free to go stompy stompy on the rest of your army.

Well my experience when playing a single knight with sisters is that you want to play very aggressively with it regardless of your opponent's list. Taking the chance on the D detonation hitting their knights is much better than wasting it backfield. TBH you're paying for the thing to go nuclear in it's points cost. The f**kheug D weapon explosion is a feature, not a bug. Also with one knight it's really not going to last as long as you'd think. It's there like you said to mostly allow your exorcists to go unmolested and pop the things they need to pop while the opponent is concentrating on the big scary knight turn 1 and 2.

You basically always want the Knight to blow near enemy lines instead of your own. Regardless of whether you get a lucky scatter for the inner-D circle.

dadakkaest wrote:
Yes.

Very unhelpful.
Does anyone have anything useful to offer? Sister blobs good? Bad? Stick 'em in rhino's better?

Also, I have a game against an IG player coming up and he's going to be using Deathstrike missiles. Any advice about facing these? Should I be worried?

 MWHistorian wrote:

dadakkaest wrote:
Yes.

Very unhelpful.
Does anyone have anything useful to offer? Sister blobs good? Bad? Stick 'em in rhino's better?

Also, I have a game against an IG player coming up and he's going to be using Deathstrike missiles. Any advice about facing these? Should I be worried?

I run both, generally.

18-20 blob with Jacobus and Priests
1-3 5 girl squads f/hf in Rhinos

Not sure what the new deathstrike rules are although I heard they might be D weapons.

I noticed today that basically ALL of the Sisters are now Website only. So our FLGS can not get them for us =/

They can get them. They just get them at like 75 pct retail.

 pretre wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

Also, I have a game against an IG player coming up and he's going to be using Deathstrike missiles. Any advice about facing these? Should I be worried?

Not sure what the new deathstrike rules are although I heard they might be D weapons.

Not destroyer -- and for once Strength D would be totally appropriate, it's a fething ICBM whose fluff talks about killing a Titans -- but it is S:10 AP:1 with a freaking huge amount of blast. So one shot can annihilate a whole wave a few units of Sisters either on foot or mech'd up... but since it takes a couple of turns to fire, and it's on a fairly lightly armored chassis, the usual Deep-Striking Seraphim and/or Scouting/Outflanking Dominions can probably kill it before it does anything.

You could also try to get your Sisters into melta and flamer range before it launches and then dare the Guard player to land such massive pie plates near his own guys ("hugging the enemy"), but that's tactically trickier. We're not an assault army so we can't just charge all the way home, except for Repentia and Penitent Engines, which are probably overkill against IG infantry...

Deathstrike Missile, Range-12"-Unlimted, Str-10, AP-1, Ordnance 1, Apoc Blast (10"), Barrage, Ignores Cover, One Use Only.

Needs to roll a D6 to see if it can fire.
Can't fire on the first turn, or a turn it moved.
On a natural 6, or if its modifiers make it total 4+ (Weapon Destroyeds are -1, each turn it hasn't moved since the start is +1. So basically, turn 2 it's going to be firing on a 3+).

It's one of the few IG units I like, and I like that it's gotten better in the new book.

For facing it... well, it's one shot and after that it's only got a Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer to its name (I'm betting Bolter).
Plus, they always scatter the full 2D6".

Ultimately though, don't group up where possible, make him have to waste it on a single thing, and put some Exorcist fire into it turn 1 (AV12,12,10 after all shouldn't be too hard to crack for them.)

That said, if it were me, they'll be running Camo Netting too, so bear that in mind as an option.

(Also, for me, I'll be modeling several types of Spotter, such as a recon chimera (with Heavy Bolter and spotting gear / laser designator), a scout squad (with heavy bolter, and spotting / laser designator) and a pair of Sentinels (one with Heavy Bolter, one with spotting gear / laser designator) all on Tank sized bases)

This'll be usable as any of the artillery tanks, and make FAR more sense than long-range artillery being in spitting distance of the enemy)

The spotter tank idea is brilliant. More tactical realism, less money! You can even justify putting the spotter vehicle behind LOS-blocking terrain: assume the spotters have elevated a periscope-style sensor mast or just sent someone forward spooling fiber optic cable behind them to feed targeting data to the vehicle.

As for the Deathstrike, I realize I may be muddling how (1) Barrage and (2) Apocalyptic Blast combine. Does it get one 10" blast or several? Several would be pretty fething terrifying.

But, even with Seraphim or Dominions, Ovion is right, a single lucky hit from an Exorcist can pop it -- assuming the IG player was a big enough idiot to buy a Deathstrike and not immediately put it behind line-of-sight blocking terrain at the far end of the table.

Stop! Mathhammer time!


Between Dominions in Immolators, Seraphim with inferno pistols & melta bombs, and Exorcists, Sisters are actually one of the armies best-equipped to deal with a mech IG army, whether it advances or shoots from the backfield.

Just 1, but the combination of Ordnance and Barrage means it counts the direction as from the center of the blast marker, and rolls 2D6 for armour pen, and a few other things.

A 5" blast radius with a average scatter of 7" (or even of 4" if the launcher has line of sight) seems scarily random. As an IG player, I'd only use a Deathstrike as a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX that's honestly most useful in drawing enemy fire only as long as it doesn't launch.

From a Sisters standpoint, it could be hilarious to show up with an allied IG Deathstrike and say, "yeah, normally this is a short-ranged army without any blast weapons, but today...."

Deathstrikes are for Apocalypse really, bringing 10 or so and deploying them all over the place.

It's better than it WAS.

Used to be 3D3+3" blast (so 4-9"), no ignores cover.
AND it was harder to fire.
Needed a 6+.
+1 for each turn on the table.
-1 for each weapon destroyed, crew stunned or crew shaken.
The want to use them was really just for the sheer hilarity of it.

Now, they're more than just a pure comedy unit.
They have a set (hilarious) blast.
They have a 1/3 chance of hitting, and a good chance of hitting anyway.

It's a Vindicator on steroids, and I love Vindicators.

Ok, well, any slightly less over-the-top units from the new codex that look attractive as allies?

- Bullgryns to literally shield our Sisters from enemy shooting and charges? The problems being they give the enemy a cover save too, and we can't fire our lovely template weapons through them....
- 3 extra Ministorum Priests! (I like how IG & Inquisition both have access to these guys but
- Valkyries and Vendettas, of course, though they're less OP now (and I want to make a Sororitas variant anyway).
- Leman Russ for long-range pie plates, as always.
- Hydra for long-range anti-air, which we badly lack. Wish it had Interceptor, of course, because two twin-linked shots at BS:1 aren't cutting it against ground targets: that's, what, a 30% chance of a hit?
- infantry platoons for affordable bodies, especially in cover & seasoned with heavy weapons teams to hold backfield objectives while the Sisters close to melta/flamer range.
- Ratling scum for cheap Pinning to keep the enemy from charging our Sisters?
- Filthy, filthy psykers, but the freaks had better watch their fething step, or else it's Flame On, baby.

I think that's pretty much what Codex: Astra Militarum has to offer. We don't need more mech infantry, Emperor knows. But being wrong is one of my hobbies, so I probably missed something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, reading the main IG thread, I realize that priest plus Ogryn is pretty terrifying:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Ah, looks like the rumor of Ogryns losing Stubborn wasn't true. Incidentally, can they make use of Priests this time? It was specifically disallowed by the old rules, so I'm curious to know if that is still in effect.

There is no rule that prevents them from rolling from a Priest. And knowing the Ogryns they'd just sing along to the hymns!

Hold on a minute, so does that mean that a bunch of S5 T5 3W models can get rerolls to hit and wound?
That's...somewhat scary.

Also:

[off-key]LA! LA! LA! LA! FOR DA EMPRA![/off-key]

PRIEST: Eh, close enough. CHARGE!

Hey: Repentia advancing behind a line of Bullgryn. Bulls provide a cover save to the Repentia, eat bullets, and absorb charges, then the Repentia charge whatever's locked with the Bulls.
It'd be expensive but would make advancing Repentia much more likely to survive....

 SisterSydney wrote:
Hey: Repentia advancing behind a line of Bullgryn. Bulls provide a cover save to the Repentia, eat bullets, and absorb charges, then the Repentia charge whatever's locked with the Bulls.
It'd be expensive but would make advancing Repentia much more likely to survive....

Still not sure it would be worth it though.