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I would drop the exorcists for retributor squads with heavy bolters if you already have that much S8 AP1

6 BSS is way overkill. I would drop 3 or so of those for Dominions. Also, Storm Bolters are silly. That's 45 points right there you can use for something else. Lastly, Canoness is simply the worst HQ you can take. Take Jacobus or Celestine.

If you have guard allies, 30-50 guard with Celestine, some priests, etc is a nasty scoring unit from hell.

I've run Sisters plus Manticore, Vendetta with PCS and Bubblewrap, it is really good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Without the codexes in front of me:

Celestine
3-5 Priests with Litanies and Mauls
3 BSS with Immos
2 Doms with Flamers and Immos or Rhinos
3 Exos
Yarrick or CCS
Blob Squad with Power Axes
Other toys (Manticore, Vendetta, etc)

I'll have to dig up an old list, but that's roughly what I ran. (Obviously yarrick is new). You'll want to fit in a couple Primaris if you can as well.


One of my buddies has been talking about something like this list:

If you're allying sisters with guard, why not take a blob of 50 concripts with 10 priests and Jakobus?

You're limited to 8 IC priests.

(Inquisition can bring as many priests as you can afford, but they'd be stuck in a henchmen squad.)

So we are looking at 404 for a manticore, a vendetta, and a divination inquisitor with 3 skulls.

1799 and I still need:
3 x divination
bubble wrap
cheap scoring unit for vendetta

Can I do this and only drop one immolator/bss squad?
Can I get all of the "I needs" above for 205points?

No. You'd need 150-225 for the divination alone, bubble wrap is going to cost you a bunch more, and the cheapest guard scoring unit is 36 points. (Actually, I lied you can put the PCS in there which you have to buy anyway to get the bubblewrap, but then you lose orders...)

At the very minimum you need 280 for the things you want and you still need an HQ for the guard detachment.

But you can drop the storm bolters definitely, and honestly, I'm not sure what the manticore does for you. That your other mass of S8 AP1 fire doesn't.

You could also go another route, drop the immolators down to rhinos, drop the combi weapons, rhinos have 2 fire points, coincidentally you have 2 melta guns per squad then.

Definitely Drop the Storm bolters on the Immolators...

They work okay on Exorcists, but are a bit of a waste on Immos.

They're a waste on both.

Not a waste on exorcists I don't think - 50% chance to keep the missle launcher on a weapon destroyed...

I think the manticore might be replaced with 2 wyverns. That frees up points and provides some objective clearing capabilities that are more reliable than the manticore.

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
Not a waste on exorcists I don't think - 50% chance to keep the missle launcher on a weapon destroyed...

50% chance on a 1/6 chance that you get a weapon destroyed result that is an even lower chance that you get pen'd and aren't killed outright. I'd rather have a dozer blade.

Do me a favor, keep track of how many times it comes up in your games and how many times it is completely irrelevant. I think you'll notice a trend.

Hmm. A 5-point upgrade on a 125-point tank increases its cost by (5/125) = 4 percent. And an Exorcist without its missile launcher is pretty much useless. So, if the storm bolter saves the missile launcher 4% of the times you field it -- that is, one game in 25 -- it's still worth the price.

Plus you can, y'know, shoot stuff with it, especially advancing infantry that might destroy the Exorcist but that the Exorcist Missile Launcher can't target worth a damn.

Now a Storm Bolter on an Immolator is 5 points on top of 60 pts, or 8.3%, and the Immo is still useful as a transport and tank-shocker even if it loses its main gun, so there the Storm Bolter is probably not worth it.

Go for it if you really think it is worth it, but those points add up.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Don't look at me, I never argued that razorback spam was "killed" (or particularly overpowered in its own right).

I actually had to check my post to see if I misquoted you or something! I haven't seen much evidence that razorspam no longer works either, honestly, but was curious why this was seen as such a huge positive for the AS book.

Razorspam and Rhino-rush both got nerfed significantly by hull points, Razorspam is still somewhat effective in that you have a twin heavy weapon on a dedicated transport that can be put into SM/GK/whatnot Troops. The Immolator has the disadvantage of being slightly more expensive and unable to purchase lascannons, it's too easy to destroy them from a distance before they can get into range.

Sisters of Battle under the current rules have the same fundamental premise they've always had: if you can get about 12" away from the enemy intact and unload with all the firepower you will tear them into bits, but you can't easily deal with being kept at arm's length or with people who have a way to get from 24+" distance into melee. I advise playing them on terrain-heavy boards and/or not against Tau.

Immolators have the advantage of being able to outflank when filled with dominions. I can see them having problems otherwise.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Hmm. A 5-point upgrade on a 125-point tank increases its cost by (5/125) = 4 percent. And an Exorcist without its missile launcher is pretty much useless. So, if the storm bolter saves the missile launcher 4% of the times you field it -- that is, one game in 25 -- it's still worth the price.

Plus you can, y'know, shoot stuff with it, especially advancing infantry that might destroy the Exorcist but that the Exorcist Missile Launcher can't target worth a damn.

Now a Storm Bolter on an Immolator is 5 points on top of 60 pts, or 8.3%, and the Immo is still useful as a transport and tank-shocker even if it loses its main gun, so there the Storm Bolter is probably not worth it.

Much agreed =P

50% of 1/6 chance on a Pen is 8.3% by the way, so it is literally the right % price on the immo, and half-price on the Exorcists.

I like 50% discount on stuff, but not really full price

Mavnas wrote:Immolators have the advantage of being able to outflank when filled with dominions. I can see them having problems otherwise.

If you go first, deploy at the line, Scout and pop the biggest things on the board. If you go second, Outflank. That's my tactic.

Now you just have to figure out the % chance that your vehicle loses a weapon but is not destroyed. This chance will be higher on exorcists as the weapon less exorcist can be ignored, but an immo full of sisters is still a target.

I'm not sure i understand? You mean calculate the chance, once that 8% Pen + WD result has happened, that it is then destroyed by other shots?

Because that just depends on whether the enemy has 1 or 25 Lascanons and i think it's impossible to calculate =P

 Shandara wrote:
I don't think I can put myself through assembling another 9 engines either..

I can make it easier on you, I've got 3 assembled and painted up for auction along with the rest of my army.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/593101.page#6788255

dadakkaest wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
I don't think I can put myself through assembling another 9 engines either..

I can make it easier on you, I've got 3 assembled and painted up for auction along with the rest of my army.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/593101.page#6788255

When they arrive here in Europe, they will surely need assembling again, though!

 BlackTalos wrote:
I'm not sure i understand? You mean calculate the chance, once that 8% Pen + WD result has happened, that it is then destroyed by other shots?

Because that just depends on whether the enemy has 1 or 25 Lascanons and i think it's impossible to calculate =P

Yep, that's why I didn't even try, but if that chance is >50% then the exorcist's storm bolter isn't worth it. If it's over 0 then the immolator's isn't.

So, today I managed to get a game in with a couple friends at the game store and was quite surprised by the effectiveness of deep striking Seraphim. It was a 2v1, 2k game- Tau/Sisters vs. Eldar - with the game resulting into a Tau/Sisters victory.

Here is what the Eldar list was roughly (I don't really know Eldar that well mind you, so sorry if this is a little off)

1 Spiritseer + Voice of Twilight/Conceal
3 Warlocks + Conceal
2 Squads of 10 Guardians + Star Cannons
~8 (or whatever the max is) Jetbikes + 2x Shuriken cannons
2 Wave Serpents + Holofields + Scatter Laser + Shuriken + Bright Lance with 5 Wraithguard and 5 Wraithblades
2 Fire Prisms
Wraithknight + Sunfield thingy and 3 shot plasma cannon

Our lists were:
Celestine
(3) 5x BS + Flamer + Rhino
5x Dominions + MG + Immolator w/TL-MM
7 Seraphim + 2x2 HF
2x Exorcists

Buffmander
3x Body guards + plasma + 4 Shield drones
3x Suits + 3 TL-Fusion + 3 Flamers
3x Suits + 2x Shield Drones + Missile Pods
(2) 7x Firewarriors
Hammerhead + Ion Cannon

Basically, I was surprised at the effectiveness of the Seraphim in shredding infantry. I'm still slightly new to Sisters and all the games I've had thus far the Seraphim (and Celestine) have been less than stellar, but I suspect that's likely because I just had them running across the field. Well, today I tried deep striking them to test whether it would be work better. Well, they came in turn 2 right next to the Jetbikes, and with all the flamers + Shred - wiped the squad out to a man. The following turn, after losing a single girl to random shuriken fire, they toasted a guardian squads with 25+ flamer wounds, and then wiped out the squad of Wraithblades and the Spiritseer thanks to Celestine's being a boss. Just the damage they did was very surprising, and I would say they won the game by themselves. 3 troops choices over the course of 3-4 turns is really quite devastating. Just thought I'd share my amazement haha.

I'd dive into a full battle report, but I'm super tired. If anyone wants to hear the full story I can write it up in the morning. No pictures sadly

Played my first club League game this week - against Grey Kinghts - good close game

I fielded (restrictions were no duplication of units except troops and their dedicated transports)
Cannoness with Rosarius, Power sword, Mantle, Combi-melta
Exorcist
3 Battle Sister squads (5) with flamer and multi-melta in MM Immolators
1 Dominon Squad wih 3 Meltas in Immolator (MM)
Retirbutor Squad with MM and 2 Hv Bolters, Rhino
Inquisitor with 3 Servo Skulls and Divination
Ageis Defence Line with Quad gun
Knight Errant

Versus
Grandsmaster Mordrak with two Terminator Squads
1 Purgaton Squad
DreadKnight
1 Interceptor Squad
Vindicare

Deployed with the Retributor, Inquisitor and Exorcist behind the Line between buildings, flanked by Dominion and Sister squads on one flank and Errant and last Squad on the other.

Opponent seized Initiative - which is a habit with him
Vindicare blew up scouting Dominon Squad and the explosion/ Dreadknight killed all but one of the passengers, it failed to charge the survivor who went to ground in the crater
Interceptor squad teleported close and failed to destroy the two immolators
Grandmaster and 1 term squad teleported behind the agesis, losing a single Term to the quad gun and tried to kill the Exorcist - took 2 hull pts off it but it survived.

Despite the worry of the Grey Knight being up and close, reacted well (for a change)

The two Sisters squads piled out, got Preferred Enemy and blasted one Interceptor combat squad out of existence, whilst the Knight and the Cannoness's squad advanced on the other flank., The Knight missed the Vindicare with its Melta
The Exorcist pivoted to bring its front armour against the Grandmaster, rolled 6 for its missile strike, missed with 5 (!) and the last bounced off
In contrast the Retributor squad, boosted to be TL and Rending, cut down three terminators

The surviving interceptor squad took vengeance and wiped out one Sisters squad in shooting and assault, whilst the other squad lost several sisters to the Deadkinght as well as a couple of Sisters (but not the melta)
The Vindicare shot at the Exorcist but was foiled by the cover save
The Purgation squad moved up into a building but would have to now snap shot, fired at the Knight with 16 shots and missed.
the other Terminator Squad teleported in near the Knight and scattered away, fired at the Imolator but did nothing
Grandmaster split off from his sqaud and shot one Retributor but failed to make the charge
The surviving Terminator from his squad assaulted an Immolator and destroyed it.

The Retributor squad unleashed against the Gransmaster and took 2 wounds off him
The Exorcist fired again at the Grand Master, 6 missiles again but this time 5 hit and all wounded - killed him for bonus points for a named character
The Battered Sister squad alone on the left flank turned their metla on the lone terminator and killed him.
The Knight turned round, blasted the terminators with his melta and killed one, then assaulted them, killing 2 more for the loss of 2 hull points to the big hammer.
The still surviivng Dominon chucked a grenade at the dreadkinght but bounced off
The Cannoness and her Sisters moved into the building and shot all but one of the Purgations

The Vindicare dropped to the street and charged and killed the lone Dominon on the objective, the Dreadknight moved up to claim it
The Interceptor squad, jumped in and assaulted the restributor squad, loosing one to overwatch, killing two and wounding the Inquisitor, remained locked in combat
The lone Purgation shot the cannoness and took a wound off her
The Knight killed another Termnator and took no damage.

The Vindicare shot at the Exorcist and again was foiled by cover
The Exorcist and Immolators killed the Dreadknight
The Knight killed the last Terminator
The Cannoness and her squad killed the last Puragtion
The Interceptor squad killed the Retibutors and the Inquisitor and consolidated towards the Exorcist.

The Knight blasted the Interceptors out of existence
Multi-melta gun killed the Vindicare

Game 

I must admit I played better than I usually do and rembered stuff in the excitement like krak grenades, target selection and not panicking!

I've been running a priest bomb list for a while now, based around Jaco, 3 priests, 20 bss (F/HF), 2 hammerhand inqusitoes with grenades , supported by 9bss (F/HF) with a priest, 5 bss with F/HF. 2 squads of Melta doms, a squad of flamer doms and 2 exorcists.

What other build concepts are available to us and what have you been running? I'm looking to shake things up a bit and try a new build, but remaining semi-competitive. Thoughts?

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
I've been running a priest bomb list for a while now, based around Jaco, 3 priests, 20 bss (F/HF), 2 hammerhand inqusitoes with grenades , supported by 9bss (F/HF) with a priest, 5 bss with F/HF. 2 squads of Melta doms, a squad of flamer doms and 2 exorcists.

What other build concepts are available to us and what have you been running? I'm looking to shake things up a bit and try a new build, but remaining semi-competitive. Thoughts?

D

The obvious one is to go MSU with 3 Dominons, 5 womans squads in more Immolators and 3 Exorcists plus St C and Seraphim - I would only rank myself as semi -competative in terms of ability but it can work well and would be a good contrast.

Not tried multiple large Seraphim Squads.

A Knight is fun

Guard or Astartes allies is fluffy and fun? Black Templars and Sisters seem to be a good combo (my Knight "piety" serves with both on Crusade)

BSS MSU sounds like a nice change. Guessing each BSS needs a priest, no need for maces though, bolt pistol is still worth it.
What about special weapons, more opportunity to mix in melta/melta into the BSSs as well as the F/HF.

Couldn't run 3 Doms and the Seraphim, but if I wanted Melta in my bss I'd need to drop one anyway.

Celestine is a must with Seraphim, but might need Jaco too if I take the full 6 troops.

I'm liking it, will try to build a few lists and see where we get.

D

Mr Morden, how did Mordrak and one Terminator squad teleport in? Mordrak has a special rule allowing him and his squad to arrive turn 1 without scatter, yet regular GK Termies cannot arrive by teleport until turn 2 at the earliest. If both of the GKT squads you mention were Troops (GK Termies are a Troop selection), and Mordrak was taken by himself, Morkrak is not an IC and cannot join with one of the GKT squads. If Mordrak did take a squad of Ghost Knights (which he can), your opponent was playing short one Troop choice, and therefore an illegal list.

SJ

Great battle reports. KelCJ, if your deep-striking Seraphim had scattered in the wrong direction, would they have been nearly as effect? DS is a high-risk high-reward thang. Mr. Morden, I'm startled by how little killing your Knight seemed to do -- Thoth perhaps that's partly because you didn't get the D melee weapon into play (and only the Dreadknight was a worthwhile target for it)?

To be honest, they probably wouldn't have been effective if they scattered. I knew it was a risk, and I wasn't even sure it was going to pay off, but at the same time my luck swinging them up field had rarely payed off in the past. The one time I can remember them doing really well was versus a decked out Nob Squad. Took over half their numbers despite 4+ invulns and FNP. Other than that they've either been shot to death before doing anything significant. So, I figured I might as well try something different and see how it went. Thankfully, it worked. I'll have to keep switching between the two delivery systems to see what will work best versus certain opponents (like I would not DS against Tau or Coteaz for example), but thus far, I'm fairly happy with the results.

Wow 74 pages, Ive read the 1st 12, and the last lol.

But I would LOVE to get into AS (SoB) I understand some of the basics and have a small amount of them so far (500points) so I dont want to spend money where I dont need (sense you know, AS cost lots of money) can you guys tell me a good 1750 TAC list that can work against Tau, Eldar, tau/dar and SM's

I know in a few weeks the rules will change, but I dont think it will change the top 2 books from what they do best.

Much as people love Penitent Engines, don't buy any.....