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 SisterSydney wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
You get 1d6 dice with which to stop psychic powers.

My goodness. A mechanic where you get 1d6 of something important that doesn't scale with army size. That sounds... strangely familiar.

Welp, I know what my next homebrew thing is gonna be about.

Now posted, my modest proposal to de-nerf our Deny The Witch: bringing back the Purity Seals & Praesidium Protectiva for 7th -- plus a Templar Cross for our best friends in the Astartes. I'd love y'all's comments on how well these would work.

 sfshilo wrote:
Per the psychic chart in the cards inquisitors get all the powers...

Also I really do not understand why fliers are such a problem. Are we all using twin linked melta immolators? S8 twin linked is pretty decent against fliers.

The flyer I have problems with is the storm raven. Even if I hit, the ceramite plating is a pain.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
You get 1d6 dice with which to stop psychic powers.

My goodness. A mechanic where you get 1d6 of something important that doesn't scale with army size. That sounds... strangely familiar.

Welp, I know what my next homebrew thing is gonna be about.

Now posted, my modest proposal to de-nerf our Deny The Witch: bringing back the Purity Seals & Praesidium Protectiva for 7th -- plus a Templar Cross for our best friends in the Astartes. I'd love y'all's comments on how well these would work.

Frankly I think Adamantium Will should be an extra d6 in the deny phase rather than a +1 when targeted, but that may be just me.

 milkboy wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:
Per the psychic chart in the cards inquisitors get all the powers...

Also I really do not understand why fliers are such a problem. Are we all using twin linked melta immolators? S8 twin linked is pretty decent against fliers.

The flyer I have problems with is the storm raven. Even if I hit, the ceramite plating is a pain.

The flying land raider lol. Yeah that one is tough......

Aegis line is your friend.

Null rod inquisitors are awesome.

 Paimon wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
You get 1d6 dice with which to stop psychic powers.

My goodness. A mechanic where you get 1d6 of something important that doesn't scale with army size. That sounds... strangely familiar.

Welp, I know what my next homebrew thing is gonna be about.

Now posted, my modest proposal to de-nerf our Deny The Witch: bringing back the Purity Seals & Praesidium Protectiva for 7th -- plus a Templar Cross for our best friends in the Astartes. I'd love y'all's comments on how well these would work.

Frankly I think Adamantium Will should be an extra d6 in the deny phase rather than a +1 when targeted, but that may be just me.

That might work better than what they've got -- though it'd be hard to scale, too: Does one squad with AW give your entire army an extra 1d6 Warp Dice in your Psychic Phase? I'm just homebrewing wargear as a patch rather than trying to fix the underlying rule.

Adamantium Will giving extra D6 to the entire army would probably be slightly over the top. Then again, considering how hard it is to deny anyway, maybe it's not an issue.

Another option might be AW giving a 12" bubble of +1 Deny or something.

We're wandering off into Proposed Rules territory -- which is awesome, I'm all for proposing rules (e.g. my Deny The Nerf thread on this very subject) -- but let's do that in the appropriate forum. Anyone want to start a "fixing the fething psychic phase" thread?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also: any ideas on how to counter the daemon army of summoning more daemons that summon more daemons for summoning? Checking over the hard counters thread, I'm not sure what we do. Heavy flamers are going to hurt a horde of moderate-toughness models, especially when new units Deep Strike in and are clustered; and I suppose Dominions can go Herald-hunting....

Seraphim with Flamers will do what they are already good at. Allied IG with artillery (basilisks are my favorite) can blast the summoners, and/or the things that are summoned. A sister blob with an attached Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor and a psyocculum and null rod scouted up with the Liber Heresius controls the center, and has BS 10 against pretty much everything that the daemons throw at you. For added fun, grab as many servo skulls as possible to shut down all enemy scouting and infiltration.

With the changes to shooting are Flamer doms are worth it? Before you could get extra wounds out of range from firing the superiors bolter/pistol, now you're gonna need to really close to maximise their effectiveness.

However, with Orks round the corner and the new template rules for open topped vehicles they may have some great utility there (and vs DE if you can get them close enough to the skimmers)....

D

Just a question, how are people playing combo-flamers in a unit with flamers? Do you fire them as flamers, or a separate weapon?

Anyway, the new allocation means that the sisters do need to get closer, but if they were firing before they were still in danger. Yes, you miss a few wounds, but it shouldn't be overly many.

Still, a squad of Dominions with flamers can get close, flame, and then charge the survivors. They should be damn nasty, even if no more then before, and flamers being a little counter productive with them. Maybe HF retributions?

Unfortunately per RAW combi flamers have to go into a separate shooting pool as they don't sport the same name. This makes them almost useless now if you have any other flamers in the unit.

I've never been fond of combi melta's myself so I might start fielding some combi plasmas or the condemnor boltguns now for some added psyker defense depending on how my meta turns out.

I was contemplating switching out my HFs from my Battle Sisters Squads into a HF Retributor squad maybe keep them cheap with 3 HF and 3 ablative wounds in either an immo or rhino.

Good question regarding the combi. Need to see the name for the profile of the second weapons, if it's 'flamer' I imagine it'll shoot with other flamers, if it's 'combi-flamer' it would be resolved with other 'combi-flamers'.

D

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:Just a question, how are people playing combo-flamers in a unit with flamers? Do you fire them as flamers, or a separate weapon?

I hadn't thought of this yet. I'll have to dig in the book, but if they are separate, I'll leave them out.

evildrcheese wrote:I was contemplating switching out my HFs from my Battle Sisters Squads into a HF Retributor squad maybe keep them cheap with 3 HF and 3 ablative wounds in either an immo or rhino.

Still too expensive for what you get. HB Rets or Exos are better and more effective. :(

I pretty much always use combi-meltas

 Mr Morden wrote:
I pretty much always use combi-meltas

That's my usual combi, but I've been leaving them out for points recently.

Rcently played against a Knight and Guard allies(obviously traitors)

the Canonness and her 5 sisters took off 4 HP with their meltas and a krak grenade

 Mr Morden wrote:
Rcently played against a Knight and Guard allies(obviously traitors)

the Canonness and her 5 sisters took off 4 HP with their meltas and a krak grenade

lol Awesome. Hopefully it didn't take them out in the explosion.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Rcently played against a Knight and Guard allies(obviously traitors)

the Canonness and her 5 sisters took off 4 HP with their meltas and a krak grenade

Any "Explodes" results in there? I know they're a lot harder to get on the new Vehicle Damage Table. Or was that all good, old-fashioned "I hit you once, I take off one hull point, rinse & repeat"?

 SisterSydney wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Rcently played against a Knight and Guard allies(obviously traitors)

the Canonness and her 5 sisters took off 4 HP with their meltas and a krak grenade

Any "Explodes" results in there? I know they're a lot harder to get on the new Vehicle Damage Table. Or was that all good, old-fashioned "I hit you once, I take off one hull point, rinse & repeat"?

yep -= an explode it I would likely have killed it with one squad The Krak grenade was fun - killed a wave serpent the same way - Cannoness threw one down the barrel of a damaged one near the end of a game and blew the damned thing to hell (where they belong)

lol Awesome. Hopefully it didn't take them out in the explosion.

nope it did not die - charged my own Knight and blew up killing my Knight.............

Superheavies blowing up and destroying each other seems a little outta control...

It's often the easiest way.. mutual destruction. But with the bigger ones you need some luck of the scatter dice.

Yeah I was annoyed as mine was undamaged at that point...............I had lured his in and hped to destroy it with my Exorcist and Sisters - nearly but not quite.

Voldrak wrote:
Unfortunately per RAW combi flamers have to go into a separate shooting pool as they don't sport the same name. This makes them almost useless now if you have any other flamers in the unit.

I've never been fond of combi melta's myself so I might start fielding some combi plasmas or the condemnor boltguns now for some added psyker defense depending on how my meta turns out.

Negatory.

Pg176 of the BRB lists the Main Weapon and profile of a Combi-Weapon as a "Boltgun" and the Secondary Weapon and profile as either a "Flamer", "Grav-gun", "Meltagun" or "Plasma gun". A model equipped with Combi-Melta, firing the Secondary Weapon, fires at the same time as any other Meltagun because all the weapons are named "Meltagun". What you can't do is fire one models Combi-Melta Secondary (the Meltagun) at the same time as another models Combi-Melta Primary (the Boltgun) - they are different named weapons, and therefore fire separately.

The same thing applies for a Combi-Flamer. However Template weapons have an additional ruling that says all Template weapons fire at the same time (Pg173, part of the Template USR) - determine how many hits for each Template, add them up, then roll To Wound.

So a squad armed with a Flamer, Heavy Flamer and Combi-Flamer would fire all 3 Templates at once, working out number of hits for each Template, then roll To Wound as normal (i.e. separate pools of Wounds with different AP or special rules). A model with a Combi-Melta would fire her Main Weapon (the Boltgun) at the same time as the rest of the Unit fires their Boltguns, and she would fire her Secondary Weapon (the Meltagun) at the same time as any other model in the Unit fire a Meltagun.

Wait, you fire flamer and heavy flamer at the same time? That seems wrong based on their different name and profile.

Yeah, they reused the old Template special rule language without updating for the new shooting rules, I think.

I'll have to look at it when I get home.

It does say all template weapons fire at the same time...I'm assuming it that's not what's intended and may get FAQ'd to 'all template weapons of the same name' or something similar...

I'll probably ask the guys at my local club to call it at this point.

D

Thats a good find about flamers. It could be an oversight or it could be completely as intended.

General rules for weapons. You group/shoot them by weapon name.
Specific rule for templates. You should them all at the same time.

Since specific would override general, that is a nice boon for now.

Sometimes this game feels like Talmudic scholarship -- "but look, in this version of the text, they use a different wording, so the baby pigeon should belong to the owner of the dovecote!"

"Realistically" speaking I think that all templates should fire at the same time whether it's from a flamer or heavy flamer. I have a hard time imagining my sisters facing down a squad of bloodthirsty orcs and the sororita with the heavy flamer turns to the sororita with the flamer and says "You go ahead and shoot first, I'll fire my heavy flamer after you and burn off what's left".