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 Watchersinthedark wrote:
Not a fan of the Grey Knights. Sure they have a place in the 40k universe but no real need for them to be anything more than an ally or a footnote like the Legion of the Dammed now are.

I hope that GW might do a BPRD kind of thing with the Ordo Malleus with how the Horus Heresy series is going with the founding the of the Grey Knights by astartes of an inquisitive and devoutly loyal nature.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Watchersinthedark wrote:
Not a fan of the Grey Knights. Sure they have a place in the 40k universe but no real need for them to be anything more than an ally or a footnote like the Legion of the Dammed now are.

I hope that GW might do a BPRD kind of thing with the Ordo Malleus with how the Horus Heresy series is going with the founding the of the Grey Knights by astartes of an inquisitive and devoutly loyal nature.

BPRD?

 Brother Payne wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Watchersinthedark wrote:
Not a fan of the Grey Knights. Sure they have a place in the 40k universe but no real need for them to be anything more than an ally or a footnote like the Legion of the Dammed now are.

I hope that GW might do a BPRD kind of thing with the Ordo Malleus with how the Horus Heresy series is going with the founding the of the Grey Knights by astartes of an inquisitive and devoutly loyal nature.

BPRD?

Burea for Paranormal Research and Defense.

Mike Mignola, Hellboy. It has a nice dark feel to it with dark characters in a dark universe, but GW really tends to suffer from indecision in its writing and thus the Ordo Malleus just come off as a bunch of dicks that leaves the reader fairly disillusioned, especially when you compare them to their founders, who were righteous protectors of humanity who actually knew what they were fighting for. But now they just seem to be lost in the narrative and don't know what they want to be.

 Brother Payne wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Watchersinthedark wrote:
Not a fan of the Grey Knights. Sure they have a place in the 40k universe but no real need for them to be anything more than an ally or a footnote like the Legion of the Dammed now are.

I hope that GW might do a BPRD kind of thing with the Ordo Malleus with how the Horus Heresy series is going with the founding the of the Grey Knights by astartes of an inquisitive and devoutly loyal nature.

BPRD?

Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense.

It's a comic series that's about a branch of the US government that deals with paranormal activity. Hellboy is part of it, and the Hellboy comics and BPRD comics are intertwined.
It's pretty awesome. I'm a bit behind on it, but from where I left off, a bunch of eldritch horrors were invading earth and sending giant monsters everywhere to eat cities.

Ah cool. Not sure I get how it would tie-in w making the Ordo Malleus any different to what it is now but thanks

 Brother Payne wrote:
Ah cool. Not sure I get how it would tie-in w making the Ordo Malleus any different to what it is now but thanks

Make the Ordo Malleus operate like the 'the bureau' trope while also making them distinct from normal astartes without making them look evil. Right now the Ordo Malleus and the Grey Knights are kind stuck on the fence unsure which way they want to go. They're labeled the righteous defenders of humanity- yet are complete jerks compared to most other loyalist astartes. They're different from normal Astartes, yet they function similarly to a Chapter. It's just that the Grey Knights seem to just be young and weird compared to the other parts of the fluff that have been smoothed out and need to find something unique to be that radically sets them apart.

The Imperium already has WAAAY too much too much of this and it's suffocating the specialist factions so they all look the same.

It needs more of this.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:
Ah cool. Not sure I get how it would tie-in w making the Ordo Malleus any different to what it is now but thanks

Make the Ordo Malleus operate like the 'the bureau' trope while also making them distinct from normal astartes without making them look evil. Right now the Ordo Malleus and the Grey Knights are kind stuck on the fence unsure which way they want to go. They're labeled the righteous defenders of humanity- yet are complete jerks compared to most other loyalist astartes. They're different from normal Astartes, yet they function similarly to a Chapter. It's just that the Grey Knights seem to just be young and weird compared to the other parts of the fluff that have been smoothed out and need to find something unique to be that radically sets them apart.

The Imperium already has WAAAY too much too much of this and it's suffocating the specialist factions so they all look the same.

It needs more of this.

Yeah, I would like to see them become more a law enforcement sort of thing. Have them supplement Arbites and PDF, you know, in case of demons.
In fact, I think Codex: Inquisition was a bit of a missed opportunity in that regard - they could have introduced things like PDF and arbites or even IG as troops, and have GK, AS, or DW be elite choices unlocked by the appropriate inquisitor.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Yeah, I would like to see them become more a law enforcement sort of thing. Have them supplement Arbites and PDF, you know, in case of demons.

C:IG does PDF representations quite well, imo.

CCS for the HQ

And then 2 Platoons of whatever, as long as it includes max conscripts.

Valks/Vendettas for the air support.

And a couple of Hydras.

They're really the same thing, but with different paint jobs.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
[with] GK, AS, or DW be elite choices unlocked by the appropriate inquisitor.

I think this would be a cool idea w henchmen groups as troops or maybe the other way around.
Not too sure about the PDF though

PDF is pretty well represented by low-end Guard -- or high-end Guard in the case of a few lucky planets. Aren't IG often recruited from PDF anyway?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Troike wrote:
... the Sisters are both very dedicated elite soldiers and insanely devoted orthodox zealots on top of that. Not really characterisitcs that go hand-in-hand with sexiness.

At the risk of repeating myself: Maybe not for you.

 Troike wrote:

Their artwork and fluff in studio sources has never really emphasised sex at all. First and foremost, they're pitched as zealot-soldiers, not as sexually appealing.

Which (I suspect) is why the GW marketing department does not have a fecking clue how to handle them.

As to the topic at hand. While I believe; thoroughly, that each and every faction has a place in the setting, if I had to nominate a faction for 'lamest' it would be the SM. I've never been a particular fan of the distilled male power fantasy that is SM, but the fact that they are at the forefront of the setting, broadly considered the most important faction and receive so much total over-exposure, I am just, really, really, tired of them.

 Pendix wrote:

 Troike wrote:

Their artwork and fluff in studio sources has never really emphasised sex at all. First and foremost, they're pitched as zealot-soldiers, not as sexually appealing.

Which (I suspect) is why the GW marketing department does not have a fecking clue how to handle them.

As to the topic at hand. While I believe; thoroughly, that each and every faction has a place in the setting, if I had to nominate a faction for 'lamest' it would be the SM. I've never been a particular fan of the distilled male power fantasy that is SM, but the fact that they are at the forefront of the setting, broadly considered the most important faction and receive so much total over-exposure, I am just, really, really, tired of them.

Depends on how they're handled. For example, I love the the unique chapters, like the Black Dragons, who stand on the edge of a knife and draw fire from both sides, including those supposed to be allies. I also like some of the founding Legions, for example, the Fists are largely well done and excellent, as are the Salamanders. The main chapters I dislike are those of Guilliman, as they're so bloody bland cookie cutter orthodox Chapters that aren't that unique and don't challenge the status quo. Sure they can be somewhat interesting, but they have no unique traits besides the trait of not having anything that really sets them apart. They're the boring majority.

And as for people that complain about it being a power fantasy? Come the on. Like anything humanity makes isn't largely comprised of such stories, which goes back before the bloody Greeks and probably the dawn of human civilization. If there's one thing that humans love to make, it's stories that have elements of power fantasy and HFY!. I just look more for the stories that focus on how the Astartes are actually plagued with problems and the whole ubermensch thing isn't really all that it's cracked up to be.

As much as I hate SMs, my vote is for Orks. They simply have no place in the 40k universe. They're at home in a fantasy setting, being warlike and brutish. In that setting their idiocy is irrelevant. Being big and tough can still work for them.
But in a sci-fi setting, their fluff and plot armor rivals that of SMs in that things just conveniently happen to work out for them. Where other races have spent millennia researching and developing superior technology, Ork tech just happens to work by sheer force of will. No knowledge, no research, no science, no intelligence. They just nail three pieces of metal together and voila! They have a magic black hole gun rivaling Necron tech. Hammer a couple cogs onto that and it's now a suit of cyborg armor that fires lasers and rockets!... So stupid! There's no accounting for this race of axe-brandishing primitives ever aspiring to a space faring race, much less an intergalactic threat... Everything about them is just out of place in 40k. There's never any satisfactory explanation for why they wouldn't be easily defeated or ignored by literally every other race in the game. It's insulting to factions like Tau and the Imperium to have to admit that they've actually struggled to fight such an unintelligent, technologically inferior race... There's really no reason why they would have a hard time wiping out the Orks.

A close second is Space marines. They'd be fine if they weren't constantly and unaccountably overcoming 1000-1 odds. Theirs is the cheesiest fluff and the most hideously blatant plot armor in the game... But at least they have a place in a sci-fi setting.

Off-Topic:
I sort of smirk at those who think Tau fluff is out of place for its lack of grimdark... The way I see it, Tau are even darker and more disturbing than the Imperium. They're just better at hiding it. (Which in itself is another aspect that makes them so dark.) I highly recommend reading the fluff in the new codex as well as the Farsight supplement before saying that Tau are all rainbows and butterflies.

Some examples:
Unhealthy Tau firecaste babies mysteriously disappear.
Tau Firewarriors who don't perform to a certain standard mysteriously disappear.
Tau who question why some Tau mysteriously disappear will also mysteriously disappear.
A Tau trial by fire is often a Matrix-style mind game where you don't realize you're in a simulation, until you either experience your own horrifying death (at which point you wake up, utterly traumatized but having passed the test.) or you act toward self preservation and survive (at which point you wake up, having failed... and mysteriously disappear.)
Why does Aun'va want Farsight's head on a platter, despite Farsight still fighting for and being loyal to the Tau empire? Because Farsight disobeyed an order. (Even though it was for the greater good.)
Why does Farsight stay the hell away from the empire, aside from Aun'va wanting him dead? Because he figured out some of the scary-ass stuff the Ethereals are doing... And that's only because he's a genius who managed to make some frightening correlations over the course of his long life.
Tau who don't deny all sympathy for Farsight mysteriously disappear.
Pretty soon, races who reject assimilation into the Tau empire will mysteriously disappear.
It's a very "Big Brother is watching you" society... Creepy.

 Archonate wrote:
As much as I hate SMs, my vote is for Orks. They simply have no place in the 40k universe. They're at home in a fantasy setting, being warlike and brutish. In that setting their idiocy is irrelevant. Being big and tough can still work for them.
But in a sci-fi setting, their fluff and plot armor rivals that of SMs in that things just conveniently happen to work out for them. Where other races have spent millennia researching and developing superior technology, Ork tech just happens to work by sheer force of will. No knowledge, no research, no science, no intelligence. They just nail three pieces of metal together and voila! They have a magic black hole gun rivaling Necron tech. Hammer a couple cogs onto that and it's now a suit of cyborg armor that fires lasers and rockets!... So stupid! There's no accounting for this race of axe-brandishing primitives to ever aspire to being a space faring race, much less an intergalactic threat... Everything about them is just out of place in 40k. There's never any satisfactory explanation for why they wouldn't be easily defeated or ignored by literally every other race in the game. It's insulting to factions like Tau and the Imperium to have to admit that they've actually struggled to fight such an unintelligent, technologically inferior race... There's really no reason why they would have a hard time wiping out the Orks.

A close second is Space marines. They'd be fine if they weren't constantly and unaccountably overcoming 1000-1 odds. Theirs is the cheesiest fluff and the most hideously blatant plot armor in the game... But at least they have a place in a sci-fi setting.

Off-Topic:
I sort of smirk at those who think Tau fluff is out of place for its lack of grimdark... The way I see it, Tau are even darker and more disturbing than the Imperium. They're just better at hiding it. (Which in itself is another aspect that makes them so dark.) I highly recommend reading the fluff in the new codex as well as the Farsight supplement before saying that Tau are all rainbows and butterflies.

Some examples:
Unhealthy Tau firecaste babies mysteriously disappear.
Tau Firewarriors who don't perform to a certain standard mysteriously disappear.
Tau who question why some Tau mysteriously disappear will also mysteriously disappear.
A Tau trial by fire is often a Matrix-style mind game where you don't realize you're in a simulation, until you either experience your own horrifying death (at which point you wake up, utterly traumatized but having passed the test.) or you act toward self preservation and survive (at which point you wake up, having failed... and mysteriously disappear.)
Why does Aun'va want Farsight's head on a platter, despite Farsight still fighting for and being loyal to the Tau empire? Because Farsight disobeyed an order. (Even though it was for the greater good.)
Why does Farsight stay the hell away from the empire, aside from Aun'va wanting him dead? Because he figured out some of the scary-ass stuff the Ethereals are doing... And that's only because he's a genius who managed to make some frightening correlations over the course of his long life.
Tau who don't deny all sympathy for Farsight mysteriously disappear.
Pretty soon, races who reject assimilation into the Tau empire will mysteriously disappear.
It's a very "Big Brother is watching you" society... Creepy.

I collected tau in late fourth as my first army and well that codex etc sounds so lame compared to this. Might have to read the new codex... i will still always hold my opinion on how aweful they look though. Except kroot and vespid.

For me it's a toss-up between Eldar and Tau. Eldar just seem kinda wussy, regardless of how good they are on the tabletop.

On the other hand, they at least fit nicely into the 40k mythos, something one cannot even give Tau.

 Archonate wrote:
As much as I hate SMs, my vote is for Orks. They simply have no place in the 40k universe. They're at home in a fantasy setting, being warlike and brutish. In that setting their idiocy is irrelevant. Being big and tough can still work for them.
But in a sci-fi setting, their fluff and plot armor rivals that of SMs in that things just conveniently happen to work out for them. Where other races have spent millennia researching and developing superior technology, Ork tech just happens to work by sheer force of will. No knowledge, no research, no science, no intelligence. They just nail three pieces of metal together and voila! They have a magic black hole gun rivaling Necron tech. Hammer a couple cogs onto that and it's now a suit of cyborg armor that fires lasers and rockets!... So stupid! There's no accounting for this race of axe-brandishing primitives ever aspiring to a space faring race, much less an intergalactic threat... Everything about them is just out of place in 40k. There's never any satisfactory explanation for why they wouldn't be easily defeated or ignored by literally every other race in the game. It's insulting to factions like Tau and the Imperium to have to admit that they've actually struggled to fight such an unintelligent, technologically inferior race... There's really no reason why they would have a hard time wiping out the Orks.

A close second is Space marines. They'd be fine if they weren't constantly and unaccountably overcoming 1000-1 odds. Theirs is the cheesiest fluff and the most hideously blatant plot armor in the game... But at least they have a place in a sci-fi setting.

Other armies should be able to deny the witch against everything Orks do.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 Troike wrote:
... the Sisters are both very dedicated elite soldiers and insanely devoted orthodox zealots on top of that. Not really characterisitcs that go hand-in-hand with sexiness.

At the risk of repeating myself: Maybe not for you.

When I said that, I was thinking of the more conventional view of sexiness. If their current characterisation appeals to you in such a way, then that's fine.

 Pendix wrote:

 Troike wrote:

Their artwork and fluff in studio sources has never really emphasised sex at all. First and foremost, they're pitched as zealot-soldiers, not as sexually appealing.

Which (I suspect) is why the GW marketing department does not have a fecking clue how to handle them.

Hmmm? They've pretty much always marketed them the same way, zealous female warriors. And apperently that's sufficient, since their 6E codex sold well.

If you have ever been attracted to a Nun, you can understand how SoB are sexy. I know. Seems taboo and all. Something about a young woman, who is full of self sacrifice, both safe and forbidden all at once.. and ocassionally twists your ear to get you back into line. Wow.

- Jess

Yeah, it's a thing. Not my thing, but definitely a thing. Probably also has to do with how thoroughly they cover up..... which makes Sororitas power armor actually look immodest given you can still tell there's a woman underneath, if only because of purely decorative flourishes.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Selym wrote:

the color purple wrote:
Grey Knights and Chaos use the same armor and much of the same equipment as marines and manage to not feature prominent sexual characteristics.

Yeah. We're so alike, any CSM can infiltrate the GK ranks

Spoiler:

...I want that soul grinder. Slaanesh done right.

It's not souls he likes to grind.

 Troike wrote:
Hmmm? They've pretty much always marketed them the same way, zealous female warriors.

Ok, at the risk of tangeting, allow me to talk about this. It's true that they haven't (thankfully) changed how they present the SOB, but it is clearly a product that someone (someone who holds the purse strings at GW) does not (or at least did not) have a lot of confidence in. The army existed in limbo for years, going nearly 2 editions without an updated to their rules, and when they did get an update it was a WD, stopgap list. The last new model; the Exorcist, was 10 years ago. Which is to say; they haven't been doing much to 'market' them for a good long time.

Now we have the new Digital Codex, so surely that means there is renewed faith in the faction. Well no. Renewed faith would have lead to a relaunch like the DE got, or the Necrons. The SOB digital codex was the safest, lowest risk, lowest investment thing they could do short of 'squating' the faction. (I can expound if you like.) And it also tied into their new 'digital supplements' thing that they just launched, so I (cynically) expect timing was involved.

So, anyway, they don't have confidence in the faction. My thesis, essentially, is: that this is primarily due to the faction not being predominately male, and the females not being hyper sexualised the GW marketing department says to themselves: "how do we sell that to our target demographic of 14 year old boys? Put that in the 'too hard' basket and lets make more Space Marines."

 Troike wrote:
And apparently that's sufficient, since their 6E codex sold well.

Now I would dearly love a source for this, because if it is true that may just provide that someone at GW solid reason to have that confidence and actually make an investment in the SOB, hopefully without changing the faction's character.

Which is funny because space Marines are one of the weaker codices, at least compared to daemons or Tau or Eldar.

 Pendix wrote:
Ok, at the risk of tangeting, allow me to talk about this. It's true that they haven't (thankfully) changed how they present the SOB, but it is clearly a product that someone (someone who holds the purse strings at GW) does not (or at least did not) have a lot of confidence in. The army existed in limbo for years, going nearly 2 editions without an updated to their rules, and when they did get an update it was a WD, stopgap list. The last new model; the Exorcist, was 10 years ago. Which is to say; they haven't been doing much to 'market' them for a good long time.

Now we have the new Digital Codex, so surely that means there is renewed faith in the faction. Well no. Renewed faith would have lead to a relaunch like the DE got, or the Necrons. The SOB digital codex was the safest, lowest risk, lowest investment thing they could do short of 'squating' the faction. (I can expound if you like.) And it also tied into their new 'digital supplements' thing that they just launched, so I (cynically) expect timing was involved.

So, anyway, they don't have confidence in the faction. My thesis, essentially, is: that this is primarily due to the faction not being predominately male, and the females not being hyper sexualised the GW marketing department says to themselves: "how do we sell that to our target demographic of 14 year old boys? Put that in the 'too hard' basket and lets make more Space Marines."

Lots of people assume it's that GW lacks confidence in them, but it's actually mostly just that modelling issues have prevented a transition into plastic, which likely resulted in them being placed on the backburner. Some developer quotes illustrate this:

(Jes Goodwin)

He did stress that they really wanted to crack on with Sisters, but that they had been causing them technical difficulties for quite some time.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/328983.page
(Phil Kelly)

Oh yeah, one last thing about the Sisters of Battle. According to Phil Kelly, the reason why they never got plastic minis was because they couldn't be plastic moulded by the current process. He wasn't really sure what the issue was, but there was something about the sculpt which meant that it could only be cast in metal.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sisters-of-battle.html

So, they've actually wanted and have attempted to do a big update on them, but were unable to. Though at Enter the Citadel, they apparently also said that they now had the capability to create plastic Sisters. So, assuming that's the case, between that and the good sales of the 6E Digital Codex, hopefully there's a big update in the SoB's future.

 Pendix wrote:
Now I would dearly love a source for this, because if it is true that may just provide that someone at GW solid reason to have that confidence and actually make an investment in the SOB, hopefully without changing the faction's character.

Source.

 Archonate wrote:


Some examples:
Unhealthy Tau firecaste babies mysteriously disappear.
Tau Firewarriors who don't perform to a certain standard mysteriously disappear.
Tau who question why some Tau mysteriously disappear will also mysteriously disappear.
A Tau trial by fire is often a Matrix-style mind game where you don't realize you're in a simulation, until you either experience your own horrifying death (at which point you wake up, utterly traumatized but having passed the test.) or you act toward self preservation and survive (at which point you wake up, having failed... and mysteriously disappear.)
Why does Aun'va want Farsight's head on a platter, despite Farsight still fighting for and being loyal to the Tau empire? Because Farsight disobeyed an order. (Even though it was for the greater good.)
Why does Farsight stay the hell away from the empire, aside from Aun'va wanting him dead? Because he figured out some of the scary-ass stuff the Ethereals are doing... And that's only because he's a genius who managed to make some frightening correlations over the course of his long life.
Tau who don't deny all sympathy for Farsight mysteriously disappear.
Pretty soon, races who reject assimilation into the Tau empire will mysteriously disappear.
It's a very "Big Brother is watching you" society... Creepy.

This is why the Tau are so great. A shame they are overlooked because of the ''anime'' looking soldiers.

 Troike wrote:
Lots of people assume it's that GW lacks confidence in them, but it's actually mostly just that modelling issues have prevented a transition into plastic, which likely resulted in them being placed on the backburner. Some developer quotes illustrate this: ...

Oh, don't get me wrong, I certainly believe that there are people within the 'Studio' part of GW that do believe in the SOB, I'd just be very surprised if they were the same people holding the purse strings.

 Troike wrote:
So, they've actually wanted and have attempted to do a big update on them, but were unable to. Though at Enter the Citadel, they apparently also said that they now had the capability to create plastic Sisters. So, assuming that's the case...

That's always struck me as a weird excuse. Surely, if you were going to do a release in the vein of DE with the Sisters, you'd start by doing completely new, plastic multi-part troop boxes. In which case, the old models being hard to cast in plastic would not be an issue (are there any examples of old metal models receiving a re-release as identical plastic versions?). I'd not call Jes or Phill liars, they're both awesome people, but it still strikes me as weird.

 Troike wrote:
Source.

*clicks*

Oh . . . oh my. That's not what I was expecting, I thought it would be a quote from a Digital Distribution talking head giving a vague 'it sold well' statement. That is independent, third party numbers. That's awesome. It actually gives me some measure of hope. Thankyou.

Dark eldar, "pray they don't take you alive". And it amazes me eldar can even ally with them, if you read some of the stuff they do in the codex it gets old quickly. Yes, i get how evil you are already.

 Pendix wrote:
Oh, don't get me wrong, I certainly believe that there are people within the 'Studio' part of GW that do believe in the SOB, I'd just be very surprised if they were the same people holding the purse strings.

There's three developers that have Sisters as their main army, and Cruddace and Kelly have expressed interest in them, with Cruddace also having them as an army. Yeah, not the people controlling the finances, but still good to know.

 Pendix wrote:
That's always struck me as a weird excuse. Surely, if you were going to do a release in the vein of DE with the Sisters, you'd start by doing completely new, plastic multi-part troop boxes. In which case, the old models being hard to cast in plastic would not be an issue (are there any examples of old metal models receiving a re-release as identical plastic versions?). I'd not call Jes or Phill liars, they're both awesome people, but it still strikes me as weird.

Jes Goodwin talks about the problems in detail in that first source I linked. Essentially, it seems to be that they want to do something new with the models, but can't due to the differences betweens metal models and posable plastic models. Take it as you will:

Yes the problem with the Sisters of Battle has been the cloth robe sleeves on the under side of their arms, their hair and also the script work on their shoulders.

The problem with the robes on their arms is that it can only be sculpted flowing in one direction, which means posing can be a problem.

This isn't such an issue with Sisters armed with Bolt Guns as the pose will be pretty much set, but when you get things like Seraphim or models armed with close combat weapons you would get a very limited number of poses. This is because if you had the arm held up high the robes may stick out in a gravity defying way, which would look very unnatural.

The hair is essentially the same thing. They want the new models to be much more dynamic, which would mean their hair would not be as static as the previous Sisters of Battle miniatures. This poses problems with posing as the hair and robes need to flow in the same direction, which again limits the amount of poses possible (sorry for the over use of the word pose there - couldn't think of another on! ).

The bit I didn't quite get the gist of was the shoulder plates. He said they wanted embossed and rolling scriptwork on the shoulder plates, and the way it was curving around the plates was presenting problems. I'm not sure in all honesty what that meant but it may be similar to the problems mentioned above or it might be the way the model is cast. It might be the fact that you are very limited in undercuts on a tool when producing plastic miniatures ( by tool I mean mold, but plastic molds are known as tools).

After reading Ward's fluff in the Grey Knights codex, I say they're the lamest faction. One guy killing THOUSANDS of demons by himself? They need to get toned down quite a bit after that. But the idea of eliminating a faction just because you personally don't like them seems infantile.

 MWHistorian wrote:
After reading Ward's fluff in the Grey Knights codex, I say they're the lamest faction. One guy killing THOUSANDS of demons by himself? They need to get toned down quite a bit after that. But the idea of eliminating a faction just because you personally don't like them seems infantile.

I love how a random band of Orks accomplished more than Draigo has. (See Codex: Orks)

 Brother Payne wrote:

The fact that nuns are supposed to be peaceful and detached from sexual experiences
(I didn't really know how to phrase that last bit...)

They don't have to have sex to be sexy.

As for "peaceful". This is the 41st Millennium, son. There is only war.

 Troike wrote:
Well, the Sisters are both very dedicated elite soldiers and insanely devoted orthodox zealots on top of that. Not really characterisitcs that go hand-in-hand with sexiness.

How does combat proficiency and zealotry prevent someone from being physically attractive? I've seen plenty of very attractive female soldiers in real life.