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Deadnight wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
As the title suggests - how tall are they if space marines are around 8 feet tall. Plus do they have special characters and champions? How tall are they?

Space marines are seven feet tall, not eight.

Sisters are normal humans. Five foot something would be pretty standard.

No, Astartes vary in height but typically swing around 7'9 to 8' feet, with the big and either old/mutated ones going all the way up to ten feet.

 Wyzilla wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
As the title suggests - how tall are they if space marines are around 8 feet tall. Plus do they have special characters and champions? How tall are they?

Space marines are seven feet tall, not eight.

Sisters are normal humans. Five foot something would be pretty standard.

No, Astartes vary in height but typically swing around 7'9 to 8' feet, with the big and either old/mutated ones going all the way up to ten feet.

Sounds about right. Primarchs are what, between 12-15 feet? I know it varies considerably from Primarch to Primarch... I personally would put Lorgar on the smaller end and Russ on the higher.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
As the title suggests - how tall are they if space marines are around 8 feet tall. Plus do they have special characters and champions? How tall are they?

Space marines are seven feet tall, not eight.

Sisters are normal humans. Five foot something would be pretty standard.

No, Astartes vary in height but typically swing around 7'9 to 8' feet, with the big and either old/mutated ones going all the way up to ten feet.

Sounds about right. Primarchs are what, between 12-15 feet? I know it varies considerably from Primarch to Primarch... I personally would put Lorgar on the smaller end and Russ on the higher.

Alpharius/Omegon are the shortest, probably standing around eight to nine feet, so they can disguise themselves as a space marine or a rather large one, which isn't uncommon.Magnus meanwhile was the tallest, as IIRC he could buff his height all the way to thirty feet thanks to his pysker powers.

Hmm, good points. Lorgar still gets my vote for whiniest/sissiest primarch though...

 Wyzilla wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
As the title suggests - how tall are they if space marines are around 8 feet tall. Plus do they have special characters and champions? How tall are they?

Space marines are seven feet tall, not eight.

Sisters are normal humans. Five foot something would be pretty standard.

No, Astartes vary in height but typically swing around 7'9 to 8' feet, with the big and either old/mutated ones going all the way up to ten feet.

And yet every article I've ever read from gw (from index astartes, codices etc) lists the 'average' height of a space marine as seven to seven and a half feet. And Jess Goodwin agrees with me.
http://podcast.games-workshop.com/mp3/DP4_JesGoodwin.mp3. 27mins in.

Hmm. Did some reading and it seems I'm slightly out. It's seven to seven and a half feet. So... Half right.Seven foot (my call) is for scouts and newly initiated and younger marines (less than a century of service). After a century, they've grown to about seven six. A handful grow taller.
http://www.philipsibbering.com/wh40k/10-01-marine-morphology.shtml

Your numbers are wrong bud. Ten feet is flat out ridiculous. Practically speaking, it's a hindrance.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

Sounds about right. Primarchs are what, between 12-15 feet? I know it varies considerably from Primarch to Primarch... I personally would put Lorgar on the smaller end and Russ on the higher.

The only listed height for a primarch (iirc) is the lion - three meters. Alpharius would be smaller, Magnus would be a lot taller. This might have been detailed further since the Horus heresy novels and ia books.dont have any to hand though...

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
As the title suggests - how tall are they if space marines are around 8 feet tall. Plus do they have special characters and champions? How tall are they?

Space marines are seven feet tall, not eight.

Tell that to Abaddon...

Tell abaddon his top knot doesn't count.

The true dark secret of the Imperium is that under all their armor, Astartes are all actually circus dwarfs. They sit on a little chair in the chest of the power armor and control the arms and legs through a series of levers and pulleys.

 kerikhaos wrote:
but surely there must of been some kind of modification done to them so to speak to help increase their durability at least. A normal human in battle as rough as it is out there wouldn't last that long with just their "oh natural" training. Is there any specific fluff that suggests any tampering with their genetics to make then at least slightly more advanced than standard humans. What would be the point of them then?

Nope, pure human.
They are so fanatical, they tend to ignore minor injuries (and sometimes serious ones.)

The Imperial Guard aren't genetically modified either, and they do fine And unlike the sisters, their training isn't as intensive and they aren't as indoctrinated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SisterSydney wrote:
The true dark secret of the Imperium is that under all their armor, Astartes are all actually circus dwarfs. They sit on a little chair in the chest of the power armor and control the arms and legs through a series of levers and pulleys.

So that's where the squats went. It's a conspiracy

Philip Sibbering is just fanfic/speculation. Well-made for sure, but it's nothing official.

It is awfully inconsistent overall and throwing individual sources won't really make a difference. But just below 8 feet to around 9 seems the most reasonable size. I'd expect, say, Guilliman, to be ~13 feet.

Some artwork shows Primarchs to be like 8 feet, others 15. (Not just Magnus, mind.)

I suspect somewhere in between.

how tall are Sisters of battle?

28mm

Here's a great picture to add some idea of just how big Sanguinius and Guilliman really are - my guess is around 10-12 feet each.

We don't actually know how tall these servants are, though.

Are they 5' midget workers or massive attendants specifically chosen for Primarchs?

Either way, that artwork is one of my favourite ones in all of 30K (And 40K for that matter.)

It just radiates joy, triumph and friendship, completely unlike ten thousand years later.

 kerikhaos wrote:
Is there any specific fluff that suggests any tampering with their genetics to make then at least slightly more advanced than standard humans. What would be the point of them then?

Nah, they're quite effective without genetic modification. What gives the Sisters their edge, besides their excellent training and equipment, is their intense faith and the ways they apply it. They've got their Acts of Faith, wherein they're able to temporarily push themselves beyond what they're normally capable of (and they're already elite soldiers to begin with), and their Shield of Faith, which lets them push past even serious wounds and continue fighting.

 milkboy wrote:
they do not interface directly with the power armour unlike marines and thus do not benefit from increased strength etc.

They do seem to get a degree of enhanced strength from it. Note that Sisters can carry around heavy weapons like multi-meltas and heavy bolters, You don't see IG infantry doing that.

Though they do also seem to need what I've seen referred to as a brace to carry heavy weapons.

 SisterSydney wrote:
The true dark secret of the Imperium is that under all their armor, Astartes are all actually circus dwarfs. They sit on a little chair in the chest of the power armor and control the arms and legs through a series of levers and pulleys.

Report to your local Commissariat. Now.

Tzeentzch will not allow his devious plots to be revealed in such a way.
Not that Tzeentch is behind this, you know, it is the Emperor of course! Tzeentch is the enemy and is not at all secretly disguised as the Emperor.

All I have to say is that is interesting how the topic of this thread has .... changed.

 Troike wrote:

 milkboy wrote:
they do not interface directly with the power armour unlike marines and thus do not benefit from increased strength etc.

They do seem to get a degree of enhanced strength from it. Note that Sisters can carry around heavy weapons like multi-meltas and heavy bolters, You don't see IG infantry doing that.

Though they do also seem to need what I've seen referred to as a brace to carry heavy weapons.

In days of old (RT), heavy weapons were defined by two traits, slow and heavy. Slow weapons couldn’t move and fire. Heavy was a weapon trait listed in inches that the gun slowed your movement down. You could equip weapons with suspensors, which mitigated/canceled the movement penally. The old imperial guard issued these, which is why you see RT IG minis shouldering lascannons and their support squads were organized like SM dev squads. When the concept of “heavy” weapons was dropped in 2nd, so too were the suspensors that let the IG shoulder weapons as large as they were. Sisters, being highly equipped, obviously kept theirs.

And any suit of PA is going to have some strength boosts in it. Kinda one of the defining points of “power” armor.

PS: if you like extra-strength heresy, you can read my theory that the Imperium isn't really 10,000 years old.

 SisterSydney wrote:
One of my favorite mental images is of a 5' 2" Sister fearlessly telling off a 6' 6" Commissar (9' 10" with hat).

Now I want to do a diaorama of that!

Thanks for all the feedback. Wow some mixed feeling ooh is subject but I guess it's safe to say that these hardcore females have become this force from sheer faith instead of sheer modis then good on them and good luck.

As for space marines it's stated in loads of places they were around 7.5 feet, terminators around 8.5 feet and primarchs were anything over 9. Magnus hit about 12 - 14 feet.

Big geezers non the less. Wouldn't wanna bump accidentally into them with your coffee

Ftrom 5'1" to 6'4" in some of the fluff....

 Furyou Miko wrote:



Just trying to save us from three to seven pages of irate Sisters players. There are rather more of us than you think, and we're rather... touchy about sexist remarks. I'm sure you understand.
..

I am a Sisters player. have been a long time. So I am aware that there are "rather more than most think" of us. This is oddly one of the most prolific and ongoing threads on DakkaDakka!

Taking oneself too seriously is a serious epidemic. And sexist isn't what the comment was. Sexist refers to a disparaging comment that is comparative in nature. And in no way could my comment be considered COMPARATIVE to men dor disparaging of that comparison.

So maybe a bit risque as humor goes, but not sexist by any definition I know of.

and now... For some popcorn...

 Troike wrote:
Shield of Faith, which lets them push past even serious wounds and continue fighting.

Push past serious wounds?

That thing is like a forcefield.

Headshotted by a Bastion-Breacher Shell?

Np, Deus Ex Shieldoffaith will fix it.

Exactly as tall as the average female in 40k universe, maybe a bit taller since the recruiters probably select for athleticism and height can go in proportion to strength.

Sort of. While every student in the Schola Progenium is expected to pass some fitness tests and the like, there are several Orders of the Sororitas that are not combat-focused (Hospitaler, Famulous, Dialogous and Pronatus, to name a few). So while the average Sororitas will be in better shape than your average Imperial or Hive World woman, this is by no means a guarantee (and some Feral World women might be in even better shape than most of the Sisters!) or proof that they will be taller than average (as you could have a below-average-height woman who has trained herself to be strong and tough as hell, for example. Think Vasquez from Aliens.

Point taken. Thanks for mentioning Vasquez by the way. That made me watch the "mistake you for a man" clip which finally inspired me to stop procrastinating and walk across the street to the gym like I'd been planning to for the last 90 minutes.

Because going to the gym is totally a natural human thing to do at 1845 on a Friday...

All the artwork for Sisters has them in 6-inch stiletto power armor boots, so they're prolly around 6' in full gear.

Deadnight wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
As the title suggests - how tall are they if space marines are around 8 feet tall. Plus do they have special characters and champions? How tall are they?

Space marines are seven feet tall, not eight.

Sisters are normal humans. Five foot something would be pretty standard.

No, Astartes vary in height but typically swing around 7'9 to 8' feet, with the big and either old/mutated ones going all the way up to ten feet.

And yet every article I've ever read from gw (from index astartes, codices etc) lists the 'average' height of a space marine as seven to seven and a half feet. And Jess Goodwin agrees with me.
http://podcast.games-workshop.com/mp3/DP4_JesGoodwin.mp3. 27mins in.

Hmm. Did some reading and it seems I'm slightly out. It's seven to seven and a half feet. So... Half right.Seven foot (my call) is for scouts and newly initiated and younger marines (less than a century of service). After a century, they've grown to about seven six. A handful grow taller.
http://www.philipsibbering.com/wh40k/10-01-marine-morphology.shtml

Your numbers are wrong bud. Ten feet is flat out ridiculous. Practically speaking, it's a hindrance.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

Sounds about right. Primarchs are what, between 12-15 feet? I know it varies considerably from Primarch to Primarch... I personally would put Lorgar on the smaller end and Russ on the higher.

The only listed height for a primarch (iirc) is the lion - three meters. Alpharius would be smaller, Magnus would be a lot taller. This might have been detailed further since the Horus heresy novels and ia books.dont have any to hand though...

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
As the title suggests - how tall are they if space marines are around 8 feet tall. Plus do they have special characters and champions? How tall are they?

Space marines are seven feet tall, not eight.

Tell that to Abaddon...

Tell abaddon his top knot doesn't count.

Sibbering's work is simply atrocious and useless and massively conflicts with numerous published material on the appearance of Astartes outside of armor and the thickness of power armor. As for their height, the Black Library says hello. Astartes do indeed grow to ten feet if they're mutated or very, very old.

Ugh. I swear, I wanted to reduce my posts on these subjects as anything I'm writing here will be forgotten again next week, but I just .. can't .. resist.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Push past serious wounds? That thing is like a forcefield.
Headshotted by a Bastion-Breacher Shell? Np, Deus Ex Shieldoffaith will fix it.

Except you don't roll for headshots in the TT, and death by proximity is a thing with HE weapons. Keep the abstraction in mind.

For all intents and purposes, it is a lesser version of Feel No Pain, which Space Marines have access to as well.

Badablack wrote:All the artwork for Sisters has them in 6-inch stiletto power armor boots

How much SoB artwork have you truly seen?

I'll give you a hint:

Every single picture of a Battle Sister in the 2E Codex (excepting that one hideous Blanche Sister of Heels, who shalt never be shown again):

Every single picture of a Battle Sister in the 3E Codex (excepting, once again, that one hideous Blanche Sister of Heels, who shalt never be shown again):

And Blanche puts Heels on everything. Even Space Marine Primarchs.

The heels are a huge problem in SoB fan art, because for some reason fan artists prefer to stick impractically high-heeled shoes on the Battle Sisters instead of military boots like the miniatures and the vast majority of official artwork actually have.

Wyzilla wrote:Sibbering's work is simply atrocious and useless and massively conflicts with numerous published material on the appearance of Astartes outside of armor and the thickness of power armor. As for their height, the Black Library says hello. Astartes do indeed grow to ten feet if they're mutated or very, very old.

Games Workshop Space Marines are 7 feet on average, up to 7.5 feet in some cases. This is consistent throughout any and all Codex fluff, can be seen on this life size drawing made by Jes Goodwin (1 square = 1ft), and has been discussed in this GW Design Podcast.

Black Library Space Marines and Primarchs or Videogame Space Marines may, in some cases, exceed GW's numbers, because 40k does not have a true canon and thus allows for considerable artistic freedom in outsourced/licensed material, which should explain for all contradictions including this one. Sadly, a lot of people, including BL's freelance novel writers, just think that "bigger = better" and so attempt to one-up each other when it comes to Astartes Protagonists. In the podcast, Jes Goodwin actually jokes about them "getting bigger in each bloody book"!

Anyways, whether you prefer outsourced or licensed Space Marines to GW's own material, that would be every single fan's own decision. They should be aware that Marines who are ~10 feet high may have a problem with boarding Rhino APCs that were originally designed for ordinary human colonists, however, and may actually grow out of their own armour. Unless they'd wish to deviate from this fluff as well.

Personally, I'd say Sibbering's work seems pretty accurate, at least if you stick to Games Workshop's original material - including the thickness of Astartes power armour as described in Codex: Angels of Death and Codex: Witch Hunters.
If you just cherrypick your preferred outsourced material, of course your opinion may differ. At the end of the day, everyone just needs to be aware that no-one here can be "wrong" since all interpretations are equally valid.

Scroll down to no. 2 for a cosplay model's explanation of just how impractical high heels are for, well, moving, let alone combat.

And I was quite proud at resisting to comment on the heels comment.

Heh. Also, I want to say I actually like that Blanche cover, if only as a superb exemplar of the "I will stack up soldiers with no sense of perspective and bling out everything and have fire shooting everywhere for no reason" school of art that characterized 40K in its earlier days before GW got more coldly professional. (Not, um, that they transformed into business geniuses....).

Just as Vikings actually did wear horned helmets 0.01 % of the time, for special ceremonial events far from actual combat, and just as the British Army still wears bright red coats 0.01% of the time, when they're standing guard at a royal palace, I can imagine that some Sisters, somewhere, in some subculture, have armored boots with 6" heels they wear on special occasions when looking impressive is all that matters.

But next to the Canoness in ceremonial heels, or overwatching the Sisters standing guard in stilettos, there's almost going to be a squad of Sororitas wearing proper combat boots... and possibly smirks at the sight of their sisters wobbling about on miniature stilts.