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I had someone try to convince me that the Bloodtide was a retelling of a really old piece of fluff from an Citadel Journal or Monthly (he couldn't remember which)

Since Monthly is a comic, it would have been Journal... and actually, it was in White Dwarf.... and it wasn't about Warhammer at all.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Is there any ?

Not that I know of. Not yet, anyway.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I do not know. Blood magic seems out of character for Grey Knights

Is it? The GK's characterisation is that they do what they must in their fight against Chaos, be it killing allies or even using rather questionable methods (one of their characters uses a Daemon sword, for example). This fits in perfectly with that sort of thing.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
However, the nanorobots being stupid enough to believe the blood of the Sisters as being the blood of the Grey Knight already out of their bodies seem stupid. And the blood of the Sisters being blessed and therefore toxic to the (now Chaos-tainted) robots seems a bit far-stretched.

My interpretation is that the purity of the Sisters let them resist the Daemonic component of the Bloodtide (which was now its driving force), letting them stay immune. In turn, the GK could somehow harness that immunity via a ritual. That's how I make sense of it, anyway.

Also, I think it should be noted that the Bloodtide is characterised quite differently to the last time it appeared. The first time, it made people burst and their blood spill everywhere. In Ward's version, it just seems to turn people into berserkers. So even though it's referenced as "returning", I wouldn't worry too much about how it worked before, since Ward seems to have changed it quite bit.

And while we're discussing the Bloodtide, fun fact: in its first appearance, the Bloodtide was noted as being driven back by flamers. Now, do we know any armies that faced the Bloodtide who are particularly fond of flamers? (I know what I said before about it being different, but this detail still amuses me).

The Bloodtide was in a recent White Scars novel I read and interestingly does not seem to be a force of Chaos but rather an ancient weapon system that is now being used by Chaos?

Yep, pretty much.

 Troike wrote:
Not that I know of. Not yet, anyway.

By the way, did anyone gave feedback to the author about how we feel about his portrayal of Sisters ? Because I could not find any on his blog, and he will write Stormcaller a second book featuring wolves and sisters, including a sister full of bionic that replaced her arm with a flamethrower (what happened to the whole purity of human form part of our fluff ?)

Huh. Tells you how far behind the times I am, I never even thought about the fact he might have a blog.

That said, I think it's a British thing. You can whine and moan to your friends all you like, but you never criticise a public figure to his face.

edit: typos

He also have a Twitter account. I do not know which one is better for engaging him, though.
He seems to gladly answer to fans.

He already replied. Apparently, they weren't supposed to seem 'weak', just overwhelmed.

Riiight...

Ok, I think you need to stop commenting there for now. Just to give us time to speak together, and write a good message for him.
The idea is to explain why we felt the Sisters were portrayed in a bad and unfair way, by quoting actual facts from the book and from the rest of the lore, while at the same time not being aggressive or confrontational. It is a very good thing he is willing to listen to us, let us NOT waste it.

(Also, if anyone is wondering, the comment is here : https://chriswraight.wordpress.com/2013/02/15/win-a-copy-of-blood-of-asaheim/#comments )


So, who wants to sign in to that collaborative writing ? Should we open a new dedicated topic somewhere else on Dakka ? Or should we do that via PM ?

*sigh*

You're right. Sorry. I'll let you at it.

I would very much agree with that approach. Though I'm not sure it'd have much immediate impact, since the book is already published. Still, I think it'd be a nice thing to send off, if done well.

 Troike wrote:
Though I'm not sure it'd have much immediate impact, since the book is already published.

Blood of Asaheim is already published, Stormcaller is almost certainly already written, but it should work for the third volume planned and for any future work this author may publish.

(I edited a bunch of time my previous message. I think the right section for a dedicated thread would be 40k general. If anyone backs me up on that, I'll go create the thread.)

Assuming a professional (Although of debatable actual skill) author listens to angry forumists.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Assuming a professional (Although of debatable actual skill) author listens to angry forumists.

He does.
Not to say he will change his writings to match what we want, but as a matter of fact, he does read messages sent by angry forumists. Else how could he answer to them ? And the whole point is to write a message that is constructive and calm, not angry and rantish.
But do not worry, we will tell him having chaos lord in terminator armor being killed by grots flinging their own feces at him is A-okay for us .

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Assuming a professional (Although of debatable actual skill) author listens to angry forumists.

If we don't talk at him, he won't have a choice, ne?

That's Tzeentch!

I think he is just jealous because he knows that Chaos will still loose to anyone when they are the antagonists. Let me remind you how Ciaphas Cain dealt with a Khorne-dedicated Chaos Marine, Haraldus.

What else could he have done ? He is a commissar, after all, and that is nothing to laugh at ! The marine obviously did not stand a chance.

He's also the best duellist in the Imperium. Fact.

His teacher told him so.

I do not know. Blood magic seems out of character for Grey Knights,

Ah... no. The Grey Knights are the SM Chapter that takes all the myths, legends, rumors and lies about the real-life Knights Templar and puts them into the game. So they are the holiest and most-pure of the Space Marines.... and they maintain this by practicing the vilest of sorceries and the blackest of magics.

The Sister with a flamethrower for an arm.... well, as long as the flamethrower looks like a human arm, and just shoots flames out of the palm or something, there's nothing against having augmetics to restore battlefield losses.

Otherwise... I have nothing good to say to the author, and will not serve any purpose to post on his blog, because if he was going for "overwhelmed" he came across as "misogynistic ass".

Sigh...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
He's also the best duellist in the Imperium. Fact.

Do you mean he is better than Marneus Calgar, Dante, Helbrecht, Pedro Kantor, Azrael, Logan Grimnar, and possibly even Kaldor Draigo (though Kaldor is not really in the Imperium now) ? I totally and wholeheartedly agree. And whatever happened to Sisters players supposedly denigrating Imperial Guard.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Sister with a flamethrower for an arm.... well, as long as the flamethrower looks like a human arm, and just shoots flames out of the palm or something, there's nothing against having augmetics to restore battlefield losses.

Yes, but the way it is presented make it look like she actually voluntarily removed the arm to get a flamethrower instead.

Chris Quinn ‪@irlchrusty‬
@wraightc #BoAComp Sister Nuriyah. More bionic than flesh, overly zealous. Pyromaniac, replaced arm with flamer. Foul tempered but faithful

Third, and perhaps most importantly, it’s a gloriously 40K concept. Is there anything more impractical and absurd than replacing a perfectly useful arm with a bolted-on flame-thrower? How do you tie your shoelaces? There’s no doubt, though, that it would be handy in barbecuing the odd heretic, which is what Sisters are there for.

The way she is described is more reminiscent of someone from the Mechanicus or an Iron Hand than from some veteran sister, because it emphasize "bionics versus flesh" rather than "reckless person that suffered numerous grievous injuries (and therefore has a lot of bionics)".
Well, we will see in the actual book.

 Psienesis wrote:
Otherwise... I have nothing good to say to the author

Then say bad things. But in a constructive manner. "You described X as Y but I think it is wrong because Z and you had rather done it like A".

I can not write the message all by myself, because I have not read the book. For instance, I would need to know the actual quote (and chapter, and page) about the Canoness "loosing her faith, only to have it restored by the wolves". I would need details over what kind of preparation the Sisters neglected to do and the wolves did, details about it, and again the relevant chapter/pages. I would need quotes about the Canoness allowing plague victims into the city (and here, we have a very easy case of how Sisters being naive compassionate people and the space wolves being extremists that believe in killing innocents because the end justify the means is the direct opposite of established background, and of the fundamental identity of both groups). And so on.

I'll give you that, Oxayotl, you're the most persistent troll I've ever seen. :]

Outside the AD forums, that is.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
He's also the best duellist in the Imperium. Fact.

Do you mean he is better than Marneus Calgar, Dante, Helbrecht, Pedro Kantor, Azrael, Logan Grimnar, and possibly even Kaldor Draigo (though Kaldor is not really in the Imperium now) ? I totally and wholeheartedly agree. And whatever happened to Sisters players supposedly denigrating Imperial Guard.

It's... kind of a thing with Cain. You do realize, though, that the Cain series is meant to be somewhat satirical of the entire 40K setting, right? I would not take what is presented in the books as in-universe literal truth.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The Sister with a flamethrower for an arm.... well, as long as the flamethrower looks like a human arm, and just shoots flames out of the palm or something, there's nothing against having augmetics to restore battlefield losses.

Yes, but the way it is presented make it look like she actually voluntarily removed the arm to get a flamethrower instead.

Chris Quinn ‪@irlchrusty‬
@wraightc #BoAComp Sister Nuriyah. More bionic than flesh, overly zealous. Pyromaniac, replaced arm with flamer. Foul tempered but faithful

Third, and perhaps most importantly, it’s a gloriously 40K concept. Is there anything more impractical and absurd than replacing a perfectly useful arm with a bolted-on flame-thrower? How do you tie your shoelaces? There’s no doubt, though, that it would be handy in barbecuing the odd heretic, which is what Sisters are there for.

The way she is described is more reminiscent of someone from the Mechanicus or an Iron Hand than from some veteran sister, because it emphasize "bionics versus flesh" rather than "reckless person that suffered numerous grievous injuries (and therefore has a lot of bionics)".
Well, we will see in the actual book.

 Psienesis wrote:


No, no it *isn't* a "gloriously 40K concept". It's a gloriously cyberpunk concept, but is not something that is done in the Imperium because you want a flamethrower in your arm. Throne of Terra... you get augmetics when battlefield injury renders your meat-bits unusable, or because you are a member of the Machine Cult and replace the weak flesh with the divine metal to bring you closer to the Machine God. Pro-tip: The Sisters of Battle are not part of the Machine Cult!

I don't see the problem. Flame-loving Sister loses arm in battle, flame-loving sister demands flamethrower in its stead, flame-loving sister gets flamethrower.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I don't see the problem. Flame-loving Sister loses arm in battle, flame-loving sister demands flamethrower in its stead, flame-loving sister gets flamethrower.

But, if what we're reading is accurate, she doesn't lose it in battle. Just decides to have her arm replaced with a flamethrower bionic.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I'll give you that, Oxayotl, you're the most persistent troll I've ever seen. :]

You are the troll .

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Outside the AD forums, that is.

AD ?

 Psienesis wrote:
I would not take what is presented in the books as in-universe literal truth.

It is 40k. There is no real in-universe literal truth.

 Psienesis wrote:
Throne of Terra... you get augmetics when battlefield injury renders your meat-bits unusable, or because you are a member of the Machine Cult and replace the weak flesh with the divine metal to bring you closer to the Machine God. Pro-tip: The Sisters of Battle are not part of the Machine Cult!

Yeah. That is exactly what I meant. I guess now we agree on this .

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I don't see the problem.

Yeah. We know you do not see the problem. That is because you are part of the problem. You need to be outside of the problem to see the problem .

In that, the events related in the Ciaphas Cain novels did not actually happen in-universe. It is a retelling of an in-universe story that, in-universe, is published as a comedy or satire... possibly by heretics.

There is, otherwise, no such person as Ciaphas Cain, or any of the people associated with him, in the Imperium.

 Psienesis wrote:
It is a retelling of an in-universe story that, in-universe, is published as a comedy or satire... possibly by heretics.

Why would they ? Cain is so awesome, and always fighting selflessly for the Imperium !

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It is a retelling of an in-universe story that, in-universe, is published as a comedy or satire... possibly by heretics.

Why would they ? Cain is so awesome, and always fighting selflessly for the Imperium !

I know you're sarcastic, but he's still a bigger Mary Sue than the whole damn Ultramarine Chapter, and they're already Suetastic. The literal only explanation is that the GEOM is watching over him and constantly granting ass pull miracles for him all the time. Joke was good for the first three books, but urgh did they drag too much.

 Wyzilla wrote:
I know you're sarcastic

I genuinely find him awesome. And I love how the books subvert the grimdark of the setting.

 Wyzilla wrote:
but he's still a bigger Mary Sue than the whole damn Ultramarine Chapter, and they're already Suetastic.

Space wolves and Grey knight are much more Mary Sue than Ultramarines. Especially Draigo.

 Wyzilla wrote:
The literal only explanation is that the GEOM is watching over him and constantly granting ass pull miracles for him all the time.

Or he is just that awesome. No, seriously, there are already such difference between Black Library books and how different factions fare in them (especially when they are protagonist in one and antagonist in the other), so why care about it only in Cain's book ?

Because Mitchell gets a whole lotta stuff about a whole lotta other things in the setting just flat-out wrong in the Cain series.