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2014/03/17 20:22:42
Subject: BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
The second annual Crossroads GT Spring Break was this last weekend, and while I yet again didn’t play in the event (due to not getting my DoT painted in time), this go ‘round I made the trek out to Horseheads, NY anyway to drink cider and heckle for my clubmates. And as it turned out, do a bit of impromptu battle reporting … because this:
Chris Tesorio’s “My Little Bre-Pony-A” army was the talk of the tournament, and over the weekend he ended up stampeding his way to 5-0 and winning Best General with a godlike 101/120 BP. Unfortunately for the ponies Crossroads puts a high price on soft scores, so Chris’ 0 for paint dropped him to 40th of about 80 players overall - but after dishing out five brutal beatings in the name of Friendship I doubt it mattered!
In Game Two the ponies ran into one of my clubmate’s ogres, and I instantly knew I had work to do …
PONIES
Prophetess [Twilight Sparkle] - level 4 (LIFE), crown of command, dispel scroll, warhorse Lord [Celestia] - grail vow, virtue of heroism; sword of swift slaying, gromril great helm, dragonbane gem, shield, warhorse Paladin [Luna] - BSB, grail vow, wyrmlance, dragonhelm, luckstone, shield, warhorse Paladin [Cadence] - grain vow, enchanted shield, dawnstone, gauntlet of the duel, lance, warhorse 12 Knights of the Realm [Applejack & co] - full command (banner of eternal flame) 12 Knights of the Realm [Rarity & co] - full command (gleaming pennant) 11 Grail Knights - standard 7 Pegasus Knights [Rainbow Dash & co] - gallant, standard Trebuchet [Pinkie Pie's Party Cannon] Trebuchet [Pinkie Pie's Other Party Cannon] ------------ 2500
OGRES
Slaughtermaster - level 4 (MAW), armor of fortune, great weapon Bruiser - BSB, talisman of preservation, ironcurse, great weapon Firebelly - hellheart, adw 9 Iron Guts - full command (standard of discipline) 8 Ogre Bulls - full command, ironfists 4 Mournfangs - standard (dragonhide banner), musician, ironfists, heavy armor 6 Maneaters - standard (gleaming pennant), musician, ahw, heavy armor [stubborn, swiftstride] Sabretusk Sabretusk Ironblaster Ironblaster ------------ 2500
All the opponents of Breponya got a cup of Pinkie’s Party Punch and their own plastic pony!
DEPLOYMENT After vanguards. All the princesses went into the grail ponies, and the ogre command split between the guts (SM + BSB) and the bulls (FB). (The maneaters are the leftmost block, then bulls and guts moving to the right.) Ponies prayed to their sun god, activating their Friendship fields and giving ogres first turn.
BATTLE Turn 1 Ogres shuffle about, drooling slightly at all that sparkly horseflesh, as their enormous cats romp out to cuddle. A massive 6-5 winds gets things moving with a torrent of spells: the bulls gain stubborn and +1S, the iron guts get regen, braingobbler against a party cannon is dispelled and a fireball into the same fails to cast. Both ironblasters fail to harm the left party cannon (first stuck in the mud, second failed to wound).
Incoming cuddles!
The grail ponies chase off their kitten, while the left lance o’ pony tramples their ferocious feline and reforms. A 5-3 (+1 Ogres) winds sees throne dispelled and dwellers into the gutstar kill only a single iron gut! Then the party cannons open up into the bulls - the first scatters but the second pinholes the firebelly, who fails his LOS! and is splattered in an eruption of glitter and confetti, along with a single bull.
Pegasi Patrol
Turn 2 The mournfangs overcome their nerves and crash into the right PotR lance, while once again the rest of the ogres mill about. Another strong 6-3 (+1 Ogres) winds brings the promise of more tasty buffs: bullgorger onto the mournfangs is dispelled, though trollguts and bulls both receive regen, and the bulls keep up their stubborn. The much reviled double ironblasters continue to fall short of their hype, with the left blaster’s shot caught by a pegasus’ ward and the right’s doing a single wound to a party cannon. But dragonhide mournfangs are pretty broken, right?
The ponies are unable to dent the ogre cav, however despite throwing everything they’ve got into the tiny candy-colored horses, the mournfang only inflict four wounds, not the seven needed to break the lance’s steadfast. The ponies easily hold.
Seeing the perfect opportunity to dispense hot flaming Friendship all over the ogre HQ, Princess Celestia orders her grail ponies into the iron guts …
… as Rainbow Dash leads her pegasi into the maneaters. Magic blows a decent 6-2, but after thrones is dispelled the ponies toss aside their extra dice in the name of putting hoof to face instead. The party cannons announce the looming combat phase by exploding one of the ironblasters - fitting given the carnage to come. Jumping right to the main combat, Princess Luna whips out her (Initiative 5) wyrmlance and burns the regeneration off the ironguts, before the rest of the lance lays in and kills a lot of ogres. Faced with a wall of characters or champions, the ogres manage little in return, and while the bulls are currently sturbbon the guts are certainly not. Ogre HQ breaks and is run down.
Given that this was a Blood & Glory scenario, the grailstar sweeps up 1500+ points in the process, as well as breaking the back of the ogre army.
To add insult to injury, the mournfang lose by a single point of CR, break and are likewise caught in a detonation of raw Friendship. In the pegasi on maneater combat, a couple ogres die for a pegasus and a half, but all parties hold.
Turn 3 Desperate for points, the bulls thunder into the dented PotR lance, dropping a couple but once again unable to break their steadfast. The maneaters similarly hack away at the pegasi to little result but ultimately hold, and the ironblaster sticks another single wound into a party cannon.
Rarity’s PotR lance slams into the flank of the bulls …
… as PON-3 gets the grailstar pointed at the dwindling maneaters. An average 6-1 winds roll sees Twilight Sparkle get throne up, regrow a pony into the damaged PotR lance (Applejack’s if you’re wondering), and also rip a wound off a bull with shield of thorns. The party cannons both unleash on the last ironblaster and reduce it to so much confetti, moments before Rarity and crew rout the bulls and run them down.
Annnnd despite dispatching Fluttershy, the maneaters continue to lose combat but hold on stubborn.
Turn 4 Rainbow Dash and her pegasi go ape and beat the maneaters down to the standard bearer, who continues to stick …
… as the ponies close the noose.
The maneater is kicked to death, in the name of Friendship.
It was delicious! Partially because I wasn't the one who had just been tabled by a bunch of ponies
If you're interested in a few more photos from Crossroads, I took a handful that didn't involve ponies, though they're mostly of a just few armies that really caught my fancy
- Salvage
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/18 04:08:25
I really cant believe that a TO at an event with 80 participants actually allowed this......
Let a billion souls burn in death than for one soul to bend knee to a false Emperor.....
"I am the punishment of God, had you not committed great sin, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you"
2014/03/18 00:33:54
Subject: BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
A buddy of mine just took Best Overall with his Brets at our local GT (he's the other Bret general mentioned in the video), and talking to him it seems like he encountered essentially the same prevailing circumstance that allowed Chris to win with his ponies: people think Brets are gak, and underestimate them.
I mean hell, there's something like 1,500 points in that grail knight unit. Who the hell lets that get a charge off? Would you leave yourself within easy charge range of a 1,500 point black knight bus? What about a 1,500 point dragon prince bus? Or alarielle star? Or gutstar? But it's OK because it's just Brets? Both of those ironblasters should have been laying into the grail knights every damned turn, no exceptions.
This right here is why you can't just accept internet wisdom at face value. Brets are outdated, but if they get the charge and don't rubberlance they're a very solid, very competitive army. Lance formation means fewer bodies are needed to break steadfast, makes it easier for multiple units to get into combat, and minimizes the number of returning attacks. In the hands of a competent general that's a recipe for an ass-whooping right there.
Of course, it only takes one failed charge to screw that up, and a charged lance is a dead lance. Though with an invulnerable character wall along the front I wouldn't be so sure about even that.
2014/03/19 14:56:42
Subject: BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
One of the problems I would think of playing this list would be remembering what Pony is what character. I don't watch My Little Pony so by giving me the names of each to equate with what character doesn't do me much good. If I line up against someone and they point to a mage I know it is a mage, this one is a the general because the model looks like a "general". Ponies look like Ponies, it would annoy me to play it.
Oneball
2014/03/19 15:19:17
Subject: Re:BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
I would have refused to play against that army. I can't believe anyone who paid money to play in a tournament with "a high price on soft scores" would be satisfied playing against an army of horse dolls. The player who brought it should know better, he's obviously no newbie, and the judges who allowed it to participate are a disgrace to their event.
This is the gentleman responsible for the Pony army above. I won't lie, I brought this army expecting a chuckle from everyone. Apparently the WHFB community isn't as accepting as I expected.
I have only been playing for two years now, which makes me practically a baby in this community. I play mostly VC, WoC and Skaven. I've only been to four GTs and didn't expect to place with this army.
I really didn't mean to 'insult' anyone and I think it's pretty childish to be offended because my dollies aren't as rough and tough as your dollies. If you look closely you can see I have banner ponies, ponies with music notes as musicians and characters as champions. If you look at it, you'll notice all my characters are unique looking. They are also different colors, so if I said to you... My general is white, my BSB is purple and my paladin is pink, you'd know who's who. Much easier than... Well, my lord is the one with his sword in the air and my other paladin is the one with his sword facing more forward. As adults, it's pretty easy to spot the difference between brightly colored pieces of plastic.
I have always just enjoyed playing, so I didn't expect such negative back lash. I was not under the impression that grown men playing with dollies was such serious business.
I love the cloud bases! thought they were done very well. I like the whole theme of the army! I'm not a brony, but I am a sucker for themed armies whether they are sharks with lasers, some yellow one eyed goggle wearing pixar movie dudes (no idea what movie that awesome chaos dwarf army is from). army of darkness, or monty python, hell even hello kitty space marines!
I think this sort of thing is creative. I would gladly play against it in a GT. It is fun, themed, fully painted (even if done so by the manufacturer of the ponies)... it's a lot more coherent than a cookie sheet covered with bare pewter and grey plastic models.. It has a lot more life to it.
If you would refuse to play against it, I have to ask if you would refuse to play against someone who showed up with bare plastic models, expecting a 0 on paint, and just wanted to play? If you showed up with pink orcs to a tourney (as opposed to green skinned).. and somebody got mad that your orcs weren't green and refused to play you because that doesn't match the imaginary fluff... how would you feel? Personally I would feel like they are a big baby and want me to play the game how THEY want to play it.. If I went to a tourney and played against someone with models that were painted poorly, I wouldn't be mad that their models were painted poorly, I would just think that their models were painted poorly from lack of time/effort or that they suck at painting. I always find something to compliment them on, and never criticize (unless explicitly asked) as I don't want to be rude..
I personally love seeing zany armies that you never expected to see... If you don't that's your opinion and all, but I don't think its very nice, or fair to call the TO's a disgrace for allowing this guy to play. I will not go as far to say that I think it would of been a disgrace if someone fostered animosity, refused to play against him, and wasted his and their own time (and money) on account of a difference of opinion about toy soldiers... I will however say that I don't think it would be very cool or polite to do. This guy is doing what HE likes. If you like super detailed realistic miniatures, go for it. I just don't see why there is such a hard line stance that he shouldn't be allowed to play, or people should refuse to play him, or be offended etc. He probably had more time in planning the army out, than I see some people put into painting their GW minis.. oh couple coats of spray paint, couple color dabs here, and a dip, bam! terrible looking crap army!
Sorry to rant, I just feel it's unfair to single this guy out, especially when I feel he doesn't deserve it.. I really just see it that if you don't like his army, so be it, he may not like yours.
No fooling, after seeing this and watching that video... I started considering the possibility of going for the blind bags myself. to me, its giggle worthy. Absolutely fun, and while I'm incredibly fresh as a player, id LOVE to face off against these.
I've only vaguely looked into the series, and this just seems brilliant and I'm enjoying it well after hearing about it. an army I considered to run, with a different, bright, yet sensible aesthetic. Just the cannons alone seem fun, never mind the character selection.
im glad the TO allowed it, and the players against it enjoyed the time (and hopefully the punch!).
Army: none currently.
2014/03/19 18:25:32
Subject: BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
Narenzade wrote:
I really didn't mean to 'insult' anyone and I think it's pretty childish to be offended because my dollies aren't as rough and tough as your dollies.
I am not offended by your choice of army. I would be offended if I had paid money with the expectation of playing against GT-level armies, and had to face your ponies - not at you, but at the TO who allowed you to play.
Look, GW games are notoriously poor games. If I wanted to play a strategy game for the strategy, I'd play chess, or at least historicals. I play GW games because I like the backgrounds and the fluff. Pretty Ponies are simply not part of that universe. I applaud your creativity and question your sanity, but playing against it is not what I'd be paying to attend.
I was not under the impression that grown men playing with dollies was such serious business.
I guess everyone enjoys their hobbies in their own way. While you may just enjoy playing, I just enjoy the spectacle of two nicely painted and themed armies on the tabletop. Your choice to field your ponies deprives me of the enjoyment that I get from this hobby, therefore, I have no reason to play against you. And that's cool, and you can enjoy your games and I can enjoy mine. But when an event runs that promises one experience that I find enjoyable, and then offers an alternative experience that I find unenjoyable, I think that's a valid reason to be disappointed in the staff running the event.
skyfi wrote:
I think this sort of thing is creative. I would gladly play against it in a GT. It is fun, themed, fully painted (even if done so by the manufacturer of the ponies)... it's a lot more coherent than a cookie sheet covered with bare pewter and grey plastic models.. It has a lot more life to it.
If you would refuse to play against it, I have to ask if you would refuse to play against someone who showed up with bare plastic models, expecting a 0 on paint, and just wanted to play?
At a GT? Absolutely. 100%. I've called judges over at GTs when opponents fielded non-WYSIWYG armies (and the rules of the event required that), and seen my opponents get a game loss as a result, and didn't feel remotely bad about it. I don't know what the rules for this event were, but calling it a GT implies a painting requirement. If there was no such requirement for Crossroads, so be it. But, if there was, as there is at most GTs, then how can you hold a person who expects their opponent to abide by those rules in the wrong? The opponent who shows up with an army that blatantly does not meet the event requirements, and yet expects to play anyway, is the one in the wrong. Getting a 0 for a paint score is not an appropriate consolation when people pay money to attend (and travel, and hotel) an event with rules, only to be faced by an opponent who has decided that he can ignore those rules.
Again, if this event did not actually have rules requiring painted armies, then that's cool, and I'd not attend in the first place.
I would not refuse to play you, but color in a riot of pastel ponies would be tough for my brain to keep track of. I feel the same with some counts as models. Easy solution would be some sort of tag or even some printed sheet with "purple one with sparkles and horn is BSB" might have helped. I was there but did not play you, if I did as long as we could come up with an appropriate way keep things straight and not make it "work" on my part to keep track of ponies, no problem. It was club mates of mine that played you and did the battle report above..
Oneball
2014/03/19 22:43:41
Subject: BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
Never watched an episode of My Little Pony, still think this army is awesome.
If there's a tournament that specifically requires lovingly painted, fluff-appropriate miniatures, ok, they shouldn't let this army in, but I can't think of any other case it would be inappropriate.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Redbeard wrote: I would have refused to play against that army. I can't believe anyone who paid money to play in a tournament with "a high price on soft scores" would be satisfied playing against an army of horse dolls. The player who brought it should know better, he's obviously no newbie, and the judges who allowed it to participate are a disgrace to their event.
Redbeard, I’m glad you didn’t come to the event. If you’re too uptight to play against a funny themed army and good guy (Chris T. is a fine fellow with a decent sense of humor), that’s on you. We’ll stick with out regular attendees (pretty much the entire ETC team and the top half of the Warhammer Masters attendees, and a surprisingly large Canadian contingent. They seem to have a sense of humor).
My name is Chris Pelletier and I’m one of the judges at Crossroads. Chris T. pre-approved the army with our head organizer, letting us know what he planned to do.
Within your response I see a valid point about what models events should let in, and the standard internets hate.
1) What models should we let into events? This is a good question. I don’t like seeing people use action figures, or models that break the feel of an army. Even within the GW family, I’ve seen plenty of 40K models used “counts as” for fantasy that don’t fit the army feel. Where do you draw the line? We’re an independent GT. We don’t care if you use Mantic, GW, or anyone else. If you sculpt up some dudes, as long as they look reasonable, go for it. If they fit a theme, are easily identifiable, conform to the rules of the game, then I don’t see a problem. Also, if you plan on using an alternative model, let us know ahead of time.
Here’s why I think Chris T.’s army works:
A) It was completely uniform - There wasn’t a mix of scales or ranges. The theme was uniform and wasn’t choppy.
B) Everything was easily identifiable. He had banners and each pony was individual. The units were also easily identifiable from each other.
C) He’s a nice guy with a sense of humor. When you’re going to a GT, tensions can run high and it’s hard to have a fun time. Chris is a good guy and will give you a good game. It’s not like he’s modeling for advantage and doing other douchey things.
D) The army looked better than the bottom tier painted armies. Every GT has players that either don’t finish their army or don’t really care about painting. Chris put time and effort into putting this together, more than other people with their G-Dub armies.
2) On to the unreasonable comment: Are we a disgrace? You’re being a troll. We’ll let our attendee’s decide if we should retire to obscurity. Once we stop selling out our 2 GTs/year within a week of open registration (which of course will be imminent due to the rapidly spreading knowledge of our disgraceful conduct) I’m sure we’ll be forced to stop running them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, we get a number of great entries that dont' fit the standard feel, but work really well. (i'm not sure where my pictures are, if you've seen these armies, post a link)
We've had the Orc"estra" - an orchestral themed O&G army with Orcs carrying trombones and goblins bouncing off of drums for doom divers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOZZN-mScPc - check out 3:45
The Pawns of Chaos - a Chess themed WoC army
Plenty of others.
I'm glad this topic came up. If you have a puritanical stance on models, you may not like our event. On the other hand, if you want to face many of the best fantasy players in the NE, and you want to have a fun time, come on down.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/20 13:39:46
2014/03/20 15:17:18
Subject: Re:BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
Well.... from your own rules it's stated that "WYSIWYG" was required. Yet I don't see a single shield, lance .. hell I don't see a single actual knight. As far as I am concerned at best he had a bunch of naked horses running around. I would have requested an automatic game win against him and if it wasn't granted a full refund of my entry fees. The fact is you established the rules and then failed to enforce them probably because you like and are biased toward the player . Based on your "if you don't like it your puritanical " response and inability to enforce your own rules, you have no business running an event. Definitely on my never will attend list.
Let a billion souls burn in death than for one soul to bend knee to a false Emperor.....
"I am the punishment of God, had you not committed great sin, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you"
2014/03/20 15:19:46
Subject: Re:BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
As much as I admire the creativity and ingenuity that went into his Bre-pony-a (I have a Pokemon/Digimon Chaos Daemon army so I know) and shake the guy's hand for it. I am inclined to agree with Redbeard on this one. If I paid for hotel, travel, and entry fee to go to a GT and was forced to choose between grinding through 2 - 2 1/2 hrs of playing against pretty ponies (I do not like MLP, and it would grate on me) or taking a game loss (so I wouldn't get frustrated and lash out), then I wouldn't be happy with the organizers at all. It is all well and good that all those big wig players showed up and liked it, but some might not have (potentially) and it is the organizers responsibility to ensure as many people as possible have a good time. Chris, you kind of are throwing out a toxic attitude towards the people who might have a problem with this. The Bre-pony-a general and Redbeard had a meeting of the minds. You are adamantly defending him and your GT (I wont insult your GT because you guys are obviously doing a lot of the right things), but you have to see that some things might not be appropriate to everyone. Again, I do not like MLP and this would not be something I would want to play against, but I would shake his hand for the creativity. This is an army that would be played for the $hits and giggles for both players, not for a tournament where people are forced to play. \rant
Dark Angels- 7500 pts Tau- 5000pts Chaos Daemons- 3000/2000 pts Dark Eldar(allies)- 1500 pts Zoom, Zoom, Iyaan.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I just watched a battleship falling in love with a man.... yep. That's enough anime for the day.
2014/03/20 15:55:38
Subject: BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
Warmaster Primus wrote: Redbeard, I’m glad you didn’t come to the event. If you’re too uptight to play against a funny themed army and good guy (Chris T. is a fine fellow with a decent sense of humor), that’s on you.
I have no issues with fun themed armies, provided that the theme is still recognizable as Warhammer. I've played with, and against, plenty of fun themes. I've seen the christmas-village and beer-fest dwaves, monty-python ogres, and I've taken a nascar themed ork army to a 40k tournament. Fun isn't the issue. It's that they're not warhammer models, and they don't follow the event rules (as noted above).
I'm sure that your regular player is a great guy and all. You can say I'm uptight all you want, but as I mentioned before, why is the person who expects that the rules be obeyed considered to be in the wrong?
My name is Chris Pelletier and I’m one of the judges at Crossroads. Chris T. pre-approved the army with our head organizer, letting us know what he planned to do.
So, someone came to you ahead of time, with an army that violated your event rules, and you said sure, go ahead. Again, why should anyone respect you as a judge?
... I don’t like seeing people use action figures,...
Yet pony toys are okay? Logical disconnect here.
Here’s why I think Chris T.’s army works: A) It was completely uniform - There wasn’t a mix of scales or ranges. The theme was uniform and wasn’t choppy.
I guess if you buy a range of toy ponies from the same manufacturer, they'll be the same scale... Wow, this is a high bar.
B) Everything was easily identifiable. He had banners and each pony was individual. The units were also easily identifiable from each other.
This, of course, depends on who you're talking to. As others have said in this thread, they'd have a hard time keeping track of which multi-coloured unit was which in the heat of a game. Each pony being individual isn't necessarily a good thing in this case. Being WYSIWYG would have made things easily identifiable. That was a rule, no?
C) He’s a nice guy with a sense of humor. When you’re going to a GT, tensions can run high and it’s hard to have a fun time. Chris is a good guy and will give you a good game. It’s not like he’s modeling for advantage and doing other douchey things.
Well, again, some would consider bringing pony toys to a warhammer event to be a douchy thing. Not me, I'm not that "uptight", but some might.
D) The army looked better than the bottom tier painted armies. Every GT has players that either don’t finish their army or don’t really care about painting. Chris put time and effort into putting this together, more than other people with their G-Dub armies.
You know, when you set the bar that low, it's hard not to trip over it. Ooooh, it looked better than the worst army there. I think I saw a guideline once, that suggested that if you were going to do something of this nature, you owed it to the other event attendees to make it one of the best armies there. Not just better than the worst.
You know what would have been cool - if he'd actually painted warhammer horses in the pony colours. If he'd actually put a little more effort into it than gluing toys onto bases.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/20 15:56:28
quickfuze wrote: Well.... from your own rules it's stated that "WYSIWYG" was required. Yet I don't see a single shield, lance .. hell I don't see a single actual knight. As far as I am concerned at best he had a bunch of naked horses running around. I would have requested an automatic game win against him and if it wasn't granted a full refund of my entry fees. The fact is you established the rules and then failed to enforce them probably because you like and are biased toward the player . Based on your "if you don't like it your puritanical " response and inability to enforce your own rules, you have no business running an event. Definitely on my never will attend list.
And exceptions can be made. If you run into one of us 9 months prior to an event, tell us what you're planning, and get an okay, it's not a problem for us. That's great planning. Any reasonable player that comes to our events can see that. Plus, that kind of hard line discounts many really great conversions.
It's your loss if you never want to attend. Ask anyone that comes to our Crossroads event, it's a good time.
For the more reasonable out there, if you're interested in attending our fall event (1st weekend of September, check more out by googleing Crossroads GT), make sure to register early. We'll sell out in the first week.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ironwill13791 wrote: As much as I admire the creativity and ingenuity that went into his Bre-pony-a (I have a Pokemon/Digimon Chaos Daemon army so I know) and shake the guy's hand for it. I am inclined to agree with Redbeard on this one. If I paid for hotel, travel, and entry fee to go to a GT and was forced to choose between grinding through 2 - 2 1/2 hrs of playing against pretty ponies (I do not like MLP, and it would grate on me) or taking a game loss (so I wouldn't get frustrated and lash out), then I wouldn't be happy with the organizers at all. It is all well and good that all those big wig players showed up and liked it, but some might not have (potentially) and it is the organizers responsibility to ensure as many people as possible have a good time. Chris, you kind of are throwing out a toxic attitude towards the people who might have a problem with this. The Bre-pony-a general and Redbeard had a meeting of the minds. You are adamantly defending him and your GT (I wont insult your GT because you guys are obviously doing a lot of the right things), but you have to see that some things might not be appropriate to everyone. Again, I do not like MLP and this would not be something I would want to play against, but I would shake his hand for the creativity. This is an army that would be played for the $hits and giggles for both players, not for a tournament where people are forced to play. \rant
Sorry if I was coming off as toxic. There were a few comments that I felt were off base.
I suppose what I was trying to get at is that the hobby means different things to different people. We're going to accept them all, as long as they are reasonable to us. I like to see all sorts of armies and themes. Even ones that fail to gel, or don't look cohesive, I appreciate their creativity and the players actually trying. I think that when you draw that hard line of what shouldn't be allowed, you're going to miss out on quite a few excellent armies.
Yes, we should make sure that as many people are having a good time as possible. Who should I cater towards? The majority of people that came to our event and had no problem with the army, or the guys here complaining and saying that we have no right to run events. Should we cater to the player that keep coming back with new ideas, some wacky, some great, some that don't work out? or should we cater to internetz opinion? No one is forcing you to play. If you don't want to play, ask for a re-pairing or sit it out.
Here's an example of something you would have seen at the GT that was completely legal:
Let's say a WoC army painted to a 3 color minimum. All the models are mostly black, it's hard to differentiate between units. Hardly painted. That army could be fully WYSIWYG, but undifferentiated due to the dark paint. That's okay by the letter of the rules, but the ponies aren't.
I have no issues with fun themed armies, provided that the theme is still recognizable as Warhammer. I've played with, and against, plenty of fun themes. I've seen the christmas-village and beer-fest dwaves, monty-python ogres, and I've taken a nascar themed ork army to a 40k tournament. Fun isn't the issue. It's that they're not warhammer models, and they don't follow the event rules (as noted above).
I'm sure that your regular player is a great guy and all. You can say I'm uptight all you want, but as I mentioned before, why is the person who expects that the rules be obeyed considered to be in the wrong?
That doesn't take into consideration the community we have. Amongst our attendees, we have a great range of people that try many different things (to varying levels of success), and we have an even greater number that are accepting of these trials & errors. Warhammer models themselves don't really matter, it's more if they fit and conform to game rules. We have plenty of people that sculpt their own stuff or use alternative model ranges. If it's clear what they are, then we're inclined to accept them.
So, someone came to you ahead of time, with an army that violated your event rules, and you said sure, go ahead. Again, why should anyone respect you as a judge?
I'll let the attendees, and whoever reads this thread decide on who they want to respect. In terms of violating our own rules, if we make exceptions it's not really in violation.
When you quote-mine me and take me out of context, sure.
To expand on the point, I normally don't like action figures or 'toys' in armies, but Chris's army was well put together and cohesive. It's not a action figure counting as a dreadknight. There wasn't a break in his theme.
This, of course, depends on who you're talking to. As others have said in this thread, they'd have a hard time keeping track of which multi-coloured unit was which in the heat of a game. Each pony being individual isn't necessarily a good thing in this case. Being WYSIWYG would have made things easily identifiable. That was a rule, no?
You're correct that it depends on who you're talking to. I asked most of his opponents after the game if everything was clear, and they didn't have a problem. The 'other' person you're referencing didn't play him. Just to be clear, no one that he played had a problem IDing the units.
You know what would have been cool - if he'd actually painted warhammer horses in the pony colours. If he'd actually put a little more effort into it than gluing toys onto bases.
That's your opinion. He could have, but it may not have looked the way he wanted.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/20 17:08:52
2014/03/20 17:40:13
Subject: BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
The army itself isn't really to my taste, but it isn't really my business either. If I ran into it at a GT, I might not be super pumped about playing against it, but that's mostly irrelevant, because I'd be happy to play against the player. The enjoyment in any match up is about 90% dependent on the other player, 10% on what he puts on the board.
I think it was handled well by the event staff- let it play, but probably doesn't get much in the painting department. I'd love to make it to one of these East Coast tournaments some day, and by all accounts Crossroads would be a pretty sweet event.
I *will* say that it raises my eyebrows a bit that anyone would be surprised when this army receives some polarized reactions. The spread of positive and negative reactions I see in this thread were mirrored when a photo of it floated up over at Bugman's.
Also, @Boss: Bre-Pony-A... Nice!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/20 17:46:59
“It was in lands of the Chi-An where she finally ran him to ground. There she kissed him deeply as he lay dying, and so stole from him his last, agonized breath.
On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
2014/03/20 17:55:34
Subject: BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
Not a fan. Redbeard's covered the salient points though.
Also, I lol'd at the thought that he put a lot of effort into the army. Gluing prepainted ponies to bases and making a banner for each unit is not a lot of effort.
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2014/03/20 19:46:18
Subject: Re:BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two
Hello folks, I'm not a regular reader of the Dakka forums, but this post came up and I felt like I should respond.
I'm the TO for The Crossroads GTs. And I think any hate that's directed at the player who took this army is completely misdirected. He did everything on the up-and-up, he contacted me well in advance, sent me pics of the army, and even pointed me towards players to contact that had played against the army previously to see if it's clear which units are which on the tabletop. Chris certainly did his part, and while there is no painting involved, he clearly committed himself for the "fun" LOLs with this army, even having the videos playing in the background, T-shirts, the castle, cups of punch, etc...
Obviously it's not to everyone's taste, and Chris knew that going in I think, so the wildly varying opinions are not surprising to him.
Any heat for this army being preset at the event should really be directed at me as the TO.
There are a few criteria that I used when deciding whether to allow this army in:
1) Fun factor - clearly Chris was doing this as a fun gag, he went all-out for his theme. I don't fell that he was looking to circumvent having to take an actual GW army, I know that he has painted GW armies, and would have readily taken one of them if I had denied his request.
2) Am I able to tell what's what on the table top: For this is where I had a real concern, in the end, based on previous precedent, I decided to allow it. We have allowed the Pawn's Of Chaos checkerboard familiar army in the past, which I think is more difficult at times to distinguish what it what, and had no issues. The original poster of this battle report himself has brought his cool Nurgle themed Skaven army to the event before, which contains no actual Skaven models, and people seemed to be able to work with that as well. On top of that, Bretonians as an army are usually confusing to me as an individual as to what is what, and which characters are where anyway, so this in my mind was no worse than a normal Bret army in that regard.
3) Appearance - Granted, the player himself did no painting or converting for this army, but it did look coherent and like it belonged together. And outside of the fact that they were MLPs, the army wasn't a horrible looking army. There are players that get their 3 color minimum on the model as sloppily as they can, and they are now compliant. Those armies to me are more unfun to look at because they look legitimately awful, GW minitures or not. I have played in a GT against the army that the models were spray painted different colors, with massive swaths of paint brushed on, then glitter all over them. This was compliant, had it's 3 colors, but was visually painful to look at. I didn't feel that this went to that level of visual disgust.
Where I obviously missed the boat is the player experience, I vastly underestimated how much opponents, and other attendees at the event would dislike having this army present. Chris and I have talked and both agree that this was the only time it will see the table at a GT, and to use this as a lesson learned.
Much of the feedback I've received centers around the lack of effort put into this army as compared to his peers at the event. I would disagree with this reasoning based on one point, I know there are plenty of players that and pay to have their armies built and painted for them. And rarely does anyone say that those armies don't belong at an event based on lack of effort, so that reasoning does not hold water in my mind.
As for the Crossroads GT's themselves, if you find that this one particular instance is reason enough not to attend our events, then that is certainly your prerogative. We take pride in running an event that caters to gamers who value different aspects of the hobby, from those that place a high value on the soft scores to those that really want a competitive gaming environment, and everyone in-between. I think we've been very successful, as these are the largest GT's in the northeast, and we sell out both events annually within 24 hours of opening registration. So if this has put you off, I would encourage you to reconsider and attend in person, as the feedback I regularly receive is that most people have a wonderful time at our GTs, and we grow attendance each year, meaning new attendees find it an experience worth repeating.
FLAWLESS BREPONYA VICTORY 
Let a billion souls burn in death than for one soul to bend knee to a false Emperor.....
2,500 points
1,850
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mean green fightin machine 
