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Made in ca
Bounding Assault Marine





Canada

Changing the allies matrix so we can have CSMs and SMs in the same army used as renegades!

post your ideas too!
   
Made in us
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte




Calixis Sector

Here's the Allies Matrix I made a while ago.

Link: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/art/Allies-Matrix-435414404

Spoiler:


 RileyJessup wrote:
Changing the allies matrix so we can have CSMs and SMs in the same army used as renegades!

post your ideas too!

If you want to ally 2 diametrically opposed forces together you may as well just throw out the Allies Matrix altogether.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/24 00:28:37


   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Should be simple.

It should be ether allies of convenience or come the apocalypses.
No Battle brothers best friends forever.

Edit: Right forgot the DA.




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/24 16:27:12


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





I'd be more inclined to;
~a fair bit of AoC
~a few CtA
~Vast majority of combinations are DA

The DA is honestly the most fluff appropriate for gak like Imperium + Xenos.

A really cool one thats getting a bit of attention around here;

Spoiler:
   
Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

I've got a really good one. Everyone's CtA with everyone else and we forget this edition ever existed.

 
   
Made in us
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte




Calixis Sector

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
I've got a really good one. Everyone's CtA with everyone else and we forget this edition ever existed.

Ignoring a rule isn't fixing it. We want to fix it because it adds value to the game. You can keep on ignoring it after we fix it. You could make an argument that some things do not do enough to justify being in 40k (Overwatch, FOC, etc.), but most of us will agree that Allies are an interesting addtion to 40k.

   
Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

 J3f wrote:
 Scipio Africanus wrote:
I've got a really good one. Everyone's CtA with everyone else and we forget this edition ever existed.

Ignoring a rule isn't fixing it. We want to fix it because it adds value to the game. You can keep on ignoring it after we fix it. You could make an argument that some things do not do enough to justify being in 40k (Overwatch, FOC, etc.), but most of us will agree that Allies are an interesting addtion to 40k.



I was being facetious, but okay.

 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






I'd love Templars to be Battle Brothers with the Sisters of Battle, because it fits the fluff in the 6th edition Space Marine codex much better than having the Templars work worse with the Sisters than normal Marines.

J3f, I like your chart a lot, but I find the little icons in some of the boxes confusing, e.g. the double wolf's-head at the intersection of Space Marines & Space Wolves. What do those represent?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte




Calixis Sector

 SisterSydney wrote:
I'd love Templars to be Battle Brothers with the Sisters of Battle, because it fits the fluff in the 6th edition Space Marine codex much better than having the Templars work worse with the Sisters than normal Marines.

J3f, I like your chart a lot, but I find the little icons in some of the boxes confusing, e.g. the double wolf's-head at the intersection of Space Marines & Space Wolves. What do those represent?

Decorations, people read too much into it. The double headed wolf is the Badge of Morkai, Erik Morkai's Great Company coat of Arms.

   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






I figured they purely decorative, and they look great, but for me at least they make the chart hard to read. A form vs. function conflict, I think.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte




Calixis Sector

Once you know what faction all the icons belong to you can use them as reference instead of having to look over to the edges.

   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Ok, but that requires me to memorize a lot more icons. Until I do that, I have lots of additional data that I can't interpret, which is confusing.

And the icons aren't easy for me to memorize. The double-wolf's-head is clearly "Space Wolves plus somebody else imperial," since it echoes the double-headed Aquila. But the various heraldic shields are hard even to read at this size.

Now, if you want to borrow ideas from medieval heraldry, which is awesome and completely appropriate for the setting, why not just use quartering? In each box that represents a pair of armies that can ally, you put a symbol that's a hybrid of both their icons: either a true quartering which has each army's symbol twice in miniature or -- much easier to implement -- an image that is split down the middle, with iconography from one army on the left and from the other on the right. Eg a Space Wolf-generic Space Marine alliance could have a wolf's head emerging from the left side of a planet and a wing emerging from the right; a Marine-Guard alliance would have circular icon in the middle that's a winged skull on the left side and a winged planet on the right; a Sororitas-Marine alliance could have the winged planet icon superimposed over a Fleur-de-Lys instead of a sword; etc etc. clear as mud?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




 J3f wrote:

If you want to ally 2 diametrically opposed forces together you may as well just throw out the Allies Matrix altogether.

I would support that. Just let everyone be brothers in arms (or at least allies of convenience), if someone makes a broken combo for the sake of having a broken combo in a friendly game you kick them in the shin really hard. Besides the most broken armies can already ally and it isn't like marines and chaos marines are a really broken combo.
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran






 J3f wrote:
Here's the Allies Matrix I made a while ago.

Link: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/art/Allies-Matrix-435414404

Spoiler:


 RileyJessup wrote:
Changing the allies matrix so we can have CSMs and SMs in the same army used as renegades!

post your ideas too!

If you want to ally 2 diametrically opposed forces together you may as well just throw out the Allies Matrix altogether.


As a Chaos player, I'm not a fan of this updated chart. Why can't Chaos ally with Guard? It was put that way by GW so players could represent a renegade Guard detachment. Your list only really seems to benefit Imperial armies, which don't need any more help as-is.

By restricting the Allies chart this much all you're doing is killing any creativity a player might have. Yes, some people at tournaments abuse the Allies rules pretty hard, but that is no excuse to limit this hobby more than GW has already limited it in the past.

If I had the choice between no allies or your allies matrix, I'd be happier without the allies to be quite honest. Imperial armies get enough goodies, they don't also need to be the only ones that can have fun with Allies. :(

CURRENT PROJECTS
Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages) 
   
Made in us
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte




Calixis Sector

 Marik Law wrote:
 J3f wrote:
Here's the Allies Matrix I made a while ago.

Link: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/art/Allies-Matrix-435414404

Spoiler:


 RileyJessup wrote:
Changing the allies matrix so we can have CSMs and SMs in the same army used as renegades!

post your ideas too!

If you want to ally 2 diametrically opposed forces together you may as well just throw out the Allies Matrix altogether.


As a Chaos player, I'm not a fan of this updated chart. Why can't Chaos ally with Guard? It was put that way by GW so players could represent a renegade Guard detachment. Your list only really seems to benefit Imperial armies, which don't need any more help as-is.

By restricting the Allies chart this much all you're doing is killing any creativity a player might have. Yes, some people at tournaments abuse the Allies rules pretty hard, but that is no excuse to limit this hobby more than GW has already limited it in the past.

If I had the choice between no allies or your allies matrix, I'd be happier without the allies to be quite honest. Imperial armies get enough goodies, they don't also need to be the only ones that can have fun with Allies. :(

Well I added Lost and the Damned. I'd rather Codexes not have to represent their namesake and their direct antagonists. Having Imperial Guard ally with Chaos Space Marines is as stupid as Space Marines Allying with Chaos Daemons.

   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc




The darkness between the stars

 J3f wrote:
 Marik Law wrote:
 J3f wrote:
Here's the Allies Matrix I made a while ago.

Link: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/art/Allies-Matrix-435414404

Spoiler:


 RileyJessup wrote:
Changing the allies matrix so we can have CSMs and SMs in the same army used as renegades!

post your ideas too!

If you want to ally 2 diametrically opposed forces together you may as well just throw out the Allies Matrix altogether.


As a Chaos player, I'm not a fan of this updated chart. Why can't Chaos ally with Guard? It was put that way by GW so players could represent a renegade Guard detachment. Your list only really seems to benefit Imperial armies, which don't need any more help as-is.

By restricting the Allies chart this much all you're doing is killing any creativity a player might have. Yes, some people at tournaments abuse the Allies rules pretty hard, but that is no excuse to limit this hobby more than GW has already limited it in the past.

If I had the choice between no allies or your allies matrix, I'd be happier without the allies to be quite honest. Imperial armies get enough goodies, they don't also need to be the only ones that can have fun with Allies. :(

Well I added Lost and the Damned. I'd rather Codexes not have to represent their namesake and their direct antagonists. Having Imperial Guard ally with Chaos Space Marines is as stupid as Space Marines Allying with Chaos Daemons.


I think the problem more came to do with not noticing the Lost and the Damned since it isn't usually there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/28 04:20:56


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Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

 StarTrotter wrote:
 J3f wrote:
 Marik Law wrote:
 J3f wrote:
Here's the Allies Matrix I made a while ago.

Link: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/art/Allies-Matrix-435414404

Spoiler:


 RileyJessup wrote:
Changing the allies matrix so we can have CSMs and SMs in the same army used as renegades!

post your ideas too!

If you want to ally 2 diametrically opposed forces together you may as well just throw out the Allies Matrix altogether.


As a Chaos player, I'm not a fan of this updated chart. Why can't Chaos ally with Guard? It was put that way by GW so players could represent a renegade Guard detachment. Your list only really seems to benefit Imperial armies, which don't need any more help as-is.

By restricting the Allies chart this much all you're doing is killing any creativity a player might have. Yes, some people at tournaments abuse the Allies rules pretty hard, but that is no excuse to limit this hobby more than GW has already limited it in the past.

If I had the choice between no allies or your allies matrix, I'd be happier without the allies to be quite honest. Imperial armies get enough goodies, they don't also need to be the only ones that can have fun with Allies. :(

Well I added Lost and the Damned. I'd rather Codexes not have to represent their namesake and their direct antagonists. Having Imperial Guard ally with Chaos Space Marines is as stupid as Space Marines Allying with Chaos Daemons.


I think the problem more came to do with not noticing the Lost and the Damned since it isn't usually there.


I think it is more a problem with Lost and the Damned not being an actual army or codex.

Lost and the damned should be a supplement for IG/AM right now. Too many specialized units like the Forgeworld lists are never going to actually be sanctioned.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
 
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