Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/23 23:44:33
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Bounding Assault Marine
|
Changing the allies matrix so we can have CSMs and SMs in the same army used as renegades!
post your ideas too!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/24 00:27:09
Subject: Re:Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte
Calixis Sector
|
Here's the Allies Matrix I made a while ago.
Link: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/art/Allies-Matrix-435414404
RileyJessup wrote:Changing the allies matrix so we can have CSMs and SMs in the same army used as renegades!
post your ideas too!
If you want to ally 2 diametrically opposed forces together you may as well just throw out the Allies Matrix altogether.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/24 00:28:37
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/24 00:32:09
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
Should be simple. It should be ether allies of convenience or come the apocalypses. No Battle brothers best friends forever. Edit: Right forgot the DA.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/24 16:27:12
Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/24 01:32:09
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Disguised Speculo
|
I'd be more inclined to;
~a fair bit of AoC
~a few CtA
~Vast majority of combinations are DA
The DA is honestly the most fluff appropriate for gak like Imperium + Xenos.
A really cool one thats getting a bit of attention around here;
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/25 06:11:47
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Boom! Leman Russ Commander
|
I've got a really good one. Everyone's CtA with everyone else and we forget this edition ever existed.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/25 07:05:02
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte
Calixis Sector
|
Scipio Africanus wrote:I've got a really good one. Everyone's CtA with everyone else and we forget this edition ever existed.
Ignoring a rule isn't fixing it. We want to fix it because it adds value to the game. You can keep on ignoring it after we fix it. You could make an argument that some things do not do enough to justify being in 40k (Overwatch, FOC, etc.), but most of us will agree that Allies are an interesting addtion to 40k.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/25 07:06:12
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Boom! Leman Russ Commander
|
J3f wrote: Scipio Africanus wrote:I've got a really good one. Everyone's CtA with everyone else and we forget this edition ever existed.
Ignoring a rule isn't fixing it. We want to fix it because it adds value to the game. You can keep on ignoring it after we fix it. You could make an argument that some things do not do enough to justify being in 40k (Overwatch, FOC, etc.), but most of us will agree that Allies are an interesting addtion to 40k.
I was being facetious, but okay.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/26 17:26:39
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
I'd love Templars to be Battle Brothers with the Sisters of Battle, because it fits the fluff in the 6th edition Space Marine codex much better than having the Templars work worse with the Sisters than normal Marines.
J3f, I like your chart a lot, but I find the little icons in some of the boxes confusing, e.g. the double wolf's-head at the intersection of Space Marines & Space Wolves. What do those represent?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/26 19:24:26
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte
Calixis Sector
|
SisterSydney wrote:I'd love Templars to be Battle Brothers with the Sisters of Battle, because it fits the fluff in the 6th edition Space Marine codex much better than having the Templars work worse with the Sisters than normal Marines.
J3f, I like your chart a lot, but I find the little icons in some of the boxes confusing, e.g. the double wolf's-head at the intersection of Space Marines & Space Wolves. What do those represent?
Decorations, people read too much into it. The double headed wolf is the Badge of Morkai, Erik Morkai's Great Company coat of Arms.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/26 19:31:04
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
I figured they purely decorative, and they look great, but for me at least they make the chart hard to read. A form vs. function conflict, I think.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/26 20:06:42
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte
Calixis Sector
|
Once you know what faction all the icons belong to you can use them as reference instead of having to look over to the edges.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/26 21:18:11
Subject: Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
Ok, but that requires me to memorize a lot more icons. Until I do that, I have lots of additional data that I can't interpret, which is confusing.
And the icons aren't easy for me to memorize. The double-wolf's-head is clearly "Space Wolves plus somebody else imperial," since it echoes the double-headed Aquila. But the various heraldic shields are hard even to read at this size.
Now, if you want to borrow ideas from medieval heraldry, which is awesome and completely appropriate for the setting, why not just use quartering? In each box that represents a pair of armies that can ally, you put a symbol that's a hybrid of both their icons: either a true quartering which has each army's symbol twice in miniature or -- much easier to implement -- an image that is split down the middle, with iconography from one army on the left and from the other on the right. Eg a Space Wolf-generic Space Marine alliance could have a wolf's head emerging from the left side of a planet and a wing emerging from the right; a Marine-Guard alliance would have circular icon in the middle that's a winged skull on the left side and a winged planet on the right; a Sororitas-Marine alliance could have the winged planet icon superimposed over a Fleur- de-Lys instead of a sword; etc etc. clear as mud?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/26 21:51:52
Subject: Re:Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
|
J3f wrote:
If you want to ally 2 diametrically opposed forces together you may as well just throw out the Allies Matrix altogether.
I would support that. Just let everyone be brothers in arms (or at least allies of convenience), if someone makes a broken combo for the sake of having a broken combo in a friendly game you kick them in the shin really hard. Besides the most broken armies can already ally and it isn't like marines and chaos marines are a really broken combo.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 00:12:47
Subject: Re:Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
As a Chaos player, I'm not a fan of this updated chart. Why can't Chaos ally with Guard? It was put that way by GW so players could represent a renegade Guard detachment. Your list only really seems to benefit Imperial armies, which don't need any more help as-is.
By restricting the Allies chart this much all you're doing is killing any creativity a player might have. Yes, some people at tournaments abuse the Allies rules pretty hard, but that is no excuse to limit this hobby more than GW has already limited it in the past.
If I had the choice between no allies or your allies matrix, I'd be happier without the allies to be quite honest. Imperial armies get enough goodies, they don't also need to be the only ones that can have fun with Allies. :(
|
CURRENT PROJECTS
Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages) |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 04:14:48
Subject: Re:Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte
Calixis Sector
|
Marik Law wrote:
As a Chaos player, I'm not a fan of this updated chart. Why can't Chaos ally with Guard? It was put that way by GW so players could represent a renegade Guard detachment. Your list only really seems to benefit Imperial armies, which don't need any more help as-is.
By restricting the Allies chart this much all you're doing is killing any creativity a player might have. Yes, some people at tournaments abuse the Allies rules pretty hard, but that is no excuse to limit this hobby more than GW has already limited it in the past.
If I had the choice between no allies or your allies matrix, I'd be happier without the allies to be quite honest. Imperial armies get enough goodies, they don't also need to be the only ones that can have fun with Allies. :(
Well I added Lost and the Damned. I'd rather Codexes not have to represent their namesake and their direct antagonists. Having Imperial Guard ally with Chaos Space Marines is as stupid as Space Marines Allying with Chaos Daemons.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 04:20:17
Subject: Re:Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
The darkness between the stars
|
J3f wrote: Marik Law wrote:
As a Chaos player, I'm not a fan of this updated chart. Why can't Chaos ally with Guard? It was put that way by GW so players could represent a renegade Guard detachment. Your list only really seems to benefit Imperial armies, which don't need any more help as-is.
By restricting the Allies chart this much all you're doing is killing any creativity a player might have. Yes, some people at tournaments abuse the Allies rules pretty hard, but that is no excuse to limit this hobby more than GW has already limited it in the past.
If I had the choice between no allies or your allies matrix, I'd be happier without the allies to be quite honest. Imperial armies get enough goodies, they don't also need to be the only ones that can have fun with Allies. :(
Well I added Lost and the Damned. I'd rather Codexes not have to represent their namesake and their direct antagonists. Having Imperial Guard ally with Chaos Space Marines is as stupid as Space Marines Allying with Chaos Daemons.
I think the problem more came to do with not noticing the Lost and the Damned since it isn't usually there.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/28 04:20:56
2375
/ 1690
WIP (1875)
1300
760
WIP (350)
WIP (150) |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 20:20:45
Subject: Re:Allies Matrix Changes
|
 |
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
|
StarTrotter wrote: J3f wrote: Marik Law wrote:
As a Chaos player, I'm not a fan of this updated chart. Why can't Chaos ally with Guard? It was put that way by GW so players could represent a renegade Guard detachment. Your list only really seems to benefit Imperial armies, which don't need any more help as-is.
By restricting the Allies chart this much all you're doing is killing any creativity a player might have. Yes, some people at tournaments abuse the Allies rules pretty hard, but that is no excuse to limit this hobby more than GW has already limited it in the past.
If I had the choice between no allies or your allies matrix, I'd be happier without the allies to be quite honest. Imperial armies get enough goodies, they don't also need to be the only ones that can have fun with Allies. :(
Well I added Lost and the Damned. I'd rather Codexes not have to represent their namesake and their direct antagonists. Having Imperial Guard ally with Chaos Space Marines is as stupid as Space Marines Allying with Chaos Daemons.
I think the problem more came to do with not noticing the Lost and the Damned since it isn't usually there.
I think it is more a problem with Lost and the Damned not being an actual army or codex.
Lost and the damned should be a supplement for IG/ AM right now. Too many specialized units like the Forgeworld lists are never going to actually be sanctioned.
|
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
|
 |
 |
|