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Does the Sororitas Lightning show up anywhere outside the video games? And is it any different from the standard Imperial Navy Lightning?

SisterSydney wrote:A reliable Exorcist is no fun, you're right. I'd always envisioned the problem being in the feed mechanism, but since it's just a bunch of rockets in tubes, it makes more sense for the problem to be in the rocket itself -- either the motor or the targeting system refusing to work.

Hmm, I always interpreted the randomness to be simply a result of how this weapon it's used - the Sister on the top plays the organ, and depending on the notes she hits the launcher will fire one or more missiles, or even none. Kind of like the 1812 Overture - just with missiles instead of cannons, and used on an actual battlefield to harass enemy morale!




I could totally see this applied to a flying platform as well. In fact, it's been some time since I last saw that film, but I think in Apocalypse Now a few of the explosions and launches were timed to go with the "Ride of the Valkyries" theme.

SisterSydney wrote:Actually, Codex:Inquisition lets you put Acolytes in power armor and then have them grav-chute out of a Valkyrie -- though whether GW intended that is anyone's guess. But the fact that Space Marines -- who are freaking meat-mountains -- can drop out of Stormravens using grav-chutes (explicitly mentioned in the Codex entry) means there are grav-chutes that can handle the weight.

Ha! Must've missed that. Learning never stops!
(still sounds like a strange idea tho)

SisterSydney wrote:From a fluff standpoint, jumping Seraphim out of Valkyries makes sense, but from a tactical, tabletop standpoint, you'd just have them Deep Strike -- presumably from a high-altitude Valkyrie or other transport which plays no other role in the game.

For the Seraphim, absolutely. Those are the dedicated deep strike units, after all. But when transporting anyone else, I think the Valkyrie would simply drop them on the ground. "Black ops" aside, I think the main reason that grav chutes are used for the Imperial Guard is to protect the aircraft they're dropping from, as it shifts the risk from the vehicle getting shot down to the troops hanging in mid-air, ready to be picked off by enemy small arms fire. The Valkyrie could bring them down to the ground much faster and better shielded, but it'd make itself vulnerable. For the Sisters, however, I think this fits, because they value each others' lives more than the equipment they use (of whose monetary value they are utterly unaware as they are unfamiliar with the concept of "I have no money". Also, in this case the Valkyrie would be able to lend close air support to the squad it has just delivered.

I'm being inspired by how it was described for the Storm Troopers once:

"The Storm Trooper regiment is one of the few to have a permanent pool of Valkyrie Assault Carriers to carry them into battle. With the speed of these aircraft to deliver them to their mission coordinates, the Storm Troopers take their enemy by surprise, smashing through windows and doors before the enemy can mount an effective resistance. The Valkyries provide covering fire for the Storm Troopers as they advance towards the objective. Without pause or hesitation, the Storm Troopers sweep through the enemy-held structure, cutting down their quarry with efficient bursts of high-powered lasfire."
- Apoc Datasheet: Storm Trooper Strike Force

Sounds familiar?

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, I see the Valkyrie as a sort of Flying Rhino - or rather, a Flying Razorback I guess.

AtoMaki wrote:They are already borrowing Rhinos, so why not borrowing some flyers too?

Well, personally, because the Storm Raven is ugly. It also looks quite a big bigger, though, so I could also see it being more difficult to transport as you'd need ships with bigger hangars. One of the main advantages is the vehicle's ability to use a rear grapple to airlift Dreadnoughts, but this would be of little value to the Sisters (unless they'd have this lying around, or get to use the Centurion-inspired close assault drop armour I've been imagining).

It also kind of fits to the Inquisition Codex, which also sees Inquisitors use a combination of Valkyrie + Rhino. But I'll be honest, my main reason is because the Valkyrie just looks so much better.

I actually kind of like the Storm Talon, though. Reminds me a little of the Apache gunships. If I would add a 3rd option to Sororitas air assets, this might be it. I'm still somewhat sceptical as to how fluffy this would be, though, as the Sisterhood as a whole may seem fairly "conservative" in what they do and how they fight, if we were to consider the history of the Repressor IFV (Forge World fluff, but in this instance it actually seemed fitting). After all, the Storm Talon seems to be a very new design. Religious nutjobs hate new things!

SisterSydney wrote:Does the Sororitas Lightning show up anywhere outside the video games? And is it any different from the standard Imperial Navy Lightning?

I don't think it shows up anywhere else. Then again, it has this in common with Forge World's Avenger, which also does not seem to exist outside its own books as far as I know.

The version in DoW had an autocannon and two lascannons, which I believe is identical to the Navy version. That said ... ->

Peregrine wrote:The problem with starting from the Lightning is that the Lightning is an absolutely terrible unit that nobody will ever use. You'd have to completely re-write the rules for it [...]

I don't see a problem with this, and I think a good compromise between its Navy version and something that's more useful on the board can be found. Perhaps switching the weapons compliment might already do the job, or one or two pieces of special equipment that add better manoeuverability (modified engines?) and/or more armour (reinforced hull?). Considering the differences you sometimes find between real world aircraft, you can have considerable changes just from one variant to another, without much difference in looks!

 Lynata wrote:

It also kind of fits to the Inquisition Codex, which also sees Inquisitors use a combination of Valkyrie + Rhino. But I'll be honest, my main reason is because the Valkyrie just looks so much better.

I think the Valkyrie would break the SoB's Marines+1 aesthetic as the Valkyre is IG/AM through and through. The Chickens on the other hand share the same design philosophy as the rest of the SoB vehicles so they wouldn't stick out from the army.

AtoMaki wrote:I think the Valkyrie would break the SoB's Marines+1 aesthetic as the Valkyre is IG/AM through and through. The Chickens on the other hand share the same design philosophy as the rest of the SoB vehicles so they wouldn't stick out from the army.

I think aestheticswise, it's the exact opposite. The power-armoured Sisters of Battle look (relatively) slim and nimble, as does the Valkyrie. The Storm Raven on the other hand is fat and broad, like Space Marines, but very much unlike the agile-looking SoB.
Also, the name "Valkyrie" is a great coincidence!

The main problem with the Lightning is that it's stats make it an expendable nuisance but it's priced to a much higher standard.

If you want to keep it's stats you'd have to dock it's price down.

And I don't think the Sisters would appreciate being stuffed into a metal coffin like the Lightning when they're not exactly as replaceable as your standard navy pilot.

They'd at least want more guns on the damn thing.

Well, I have zero experience with the Lightning in an actual TT game. How does it fare, exactly? What are its weaknesses?

If we'd assume an escort role, its loadout and any modifications should probably focus on hit&run-like tactics where the fighter may lack ammunition and resilience for longer engagements, but would be capable of simply overpowering a small number of opponents with speed and "one-off punches" of high firepower... Missile packs? Unguided WW2-style rocket batteries?

Ideally, the player should be aware of it being way too fragile to throw against an enemy prepared for an air assault, but it should have the capability to swoop in and pick off targets that are not sufficiently protected, and escape before the enemy can respond?

 Lynata wrote:
Well, I have zero experience with the Lightning in an actual TT game. How does it fare, exactly? What are its weaknesses?

If we'd assume an escort role, its loadout and any modifications should probably focus on hit&run-like tactics where the fighter may lack ammunition and resilience for longer engagements, but would be capable of simply overpowering a small number of opponents with speed and "one-off punches" of high firepower... Missile packs? Unguided WW2-style rocket batteries?

Ideally, the player should be aware of it being way too fragile to throw against an enemy prepared for an air assault, but it should have the capability to swoop in and pick off targets that are not sufficiently protected, and escape before the enemy can respond?

It's an AV10 2HP flier with the following weapons:

One autocannon, one TL lascannon, assorted one use only missiles and bombs.

It's cost?

Equivalent to the Eldar Nightwing and thus much more than a Night Scythe.

So you have a flier which can't even wing some ork shoota boyz without being in fear of it's life costing more than a flat out better Necron aircraft.

Even without comparing the Lightning to Necron planes (which are a tad underpriced) it's drastically outperformed by the Thunderbolt. Its advantage lies in an extremely long-ranged arsenal (72"-range Long Barreled Autocannon, 60" range Skystrike missiles, and 72"-range Hellstrike missiles), it could theoretically see play as a hit-and-run unit on Apocalypse-sized tables with some sort of combat-disengage rule that lets it exit the battlefield into Ongoing Reserves without going off a table edge (I'm thinking something like aircraft in the Wargame video game series that drop their payloads and immediately disengage by climbing rapidly), maybe the power to reload one-shot weapons by not coming back for a turn (there's a fighter tender just off the field with capable rapid-reload crew, obviously), give it its own niche instead of making it a Thunderbolt but worse.

Aaaaagh, fighters are complicated to implement..... in part because the scale of the game was really not devised with freaking jet aircraft in mind.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Aaaaagh, fighters are complicated to implement..... in part because the scale of the game was really not devised with freaking jet aircraft in mind.

^This is why I'm annoyed they discontinued Aeronautica Imperialis.

The scale of the game works just fine for ground-attack aircraft running low and slow to hit targets in support of the troops on the field and fighters taking a pass at the ground-attack planes to take them out but the subtleties and strategies of air-to-air combat are left out since the table's too small and they'd require a bunch of extra rules on top of the existing piles of rules.

Excellent Thread. I've revised my Flyers in my own Sisters Codex. I also added a new one, the Divinity Assault Craft. It's a Storm Eagle Equivalent boasting a Magna-melta.

As far as weapons and the holy trinity go, there are exceptions that should be made. The Divintiy comes with Consecrated Rocket Batteries which are like Multiple rocket pods, but with Missile lock at half range. I also kept everything stock on the Avenger Strike Fighter, but I upped the BS to 4 and added Shield of Faith for 15 points. My reasoning being that the Sisters wouldn't want to change it the same way that Classic Car Collectors don't want modern engines in their classic cars.

My version of the Lightning Fighter, the Alto, is mostly trinity compliant ditching the lascannons for a twin-linked long barrel autocannon and a twin-linked heavy bolter. It's got less firepower, but it only costs 130 points and comes in a squadron. It's also slightly more survivable thanks to front armour 11 and Shield of Faith.

My favorite flyer I added is the Aquila Dropship. It has a semi torrent Special Rule(6" instead of 12") and functions as an assault vehicle for Seraphim. It can take a Flamestorm Cannon or 2 Twin-linked Heavy Flamers inplace of it's autocannon.

I'm sorry to say I don't like any of your proposed flyers.

Valkyries like Chimeras are not meant for Power Armour and the Sisters would not use them.

I've ranted about this before, but Exorcist Missile Launchers are unique to Exorcists and should not appear on anything else.

Check out My Sisters of Battle Codex in my Signature for all the new flyers.

I'll take a look at your fliers. And I forgive you for not liking mine. I have a much more down-to-earth vision of the Sisters than most, and part of that is less Marine-style super-weaponry. (Rhinos don't count -- they're not l33t, just rugged).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just posted a comment over in J3f's thread about his/her fliers (sorry, J3f, I can't tell your gender....). Everyone check 'em out!

Hmm... I think the Valkyrie is a good idea, over the StormTalon or other SM vehicle, as a Valkyrie gunship is less an overt offensive weapon and more a light transport with fire support capability. It's also fortuitously named for the Sororitas. You could probably even blend "Valkyrie" with other feminine titles and mythological names for its "stock" variants and load-outs. Like "Marchesa-Pattern Valkyrie" or something along those lines.

The idea of the C-130 with the Exorcist tube sticking out of one door is... visually, it's pretty awesome but... wholly impractical for battlefield application. I think, though, that it would be better to decide on a role for such a vehicle first, and then equip it to fill that role. If you want this to be an anti-infantry/light armor (like the original Puff), then you mount three to six twin-linked Heavy Bolters one side (the Puff would use assault cannons, but those aren't Sisterly), or a pair of Torrent flamers... mind is blanking on their name atm. If you want this plane to be a tank-hunter, then you mount three multi-meltas or a melta-cannon in the door there, operated by the crew chief (who, in other configurations, stands there with a snowshovel and tosses brass out the back door when the bolters are rockin' 'n' rollin'.)

 SisterSydney wrote:
I'll take a look at your fliers. And I forgive you for not liking mine. I have a much more down-to-earth vision of the Sisters than most, and part of that is less Marine-style super-weaponry. (Rhinos don't count -- they're not l33t, just rugged).

It's not even a matter of Marine-style super-weaponry versus rugged, it's a matter of giving a shock troops army an armoured assault transport or a light utility transport as their battlefield air taxi.

I'll work on the Storm Eagle variant more lorewise/ruleswise/modelwise, that seems like the most in-character route to take, personally, and it's more of a dedicated single-role armoured assault transport than an assault transport/ground-support gunship/dogfighter/Dreadnaught carrier as the Stormraven is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If nothing else the "production has begun to increase of late, leading people to suspect a secret new manufacturing location" could be part of an Inquisition plot and someone in on the plot is getting the planes to friendly Sisters.

I love Valkyries. I desperately want Valkyries to be the answer to this question... but somehow, it never has sat well with me.

Nor do I like the Storm Raven or Talon. Those don't work for me either.

My attempts to make an offensive Sisters flier resulted in the Aquila Hunter, which it turns out I never posted here, apparently I decided it was too much work to convert it out of vB code;

Aquila Hunter
The Aquila Hunter started life as a field-retrofit by Arch-Confessor Groger of Ophelia VI. Groger wanted his personal transport to be capable of properly defending himself and his entourage in case of an attack by air pirates. He was a somewhat paranoid man. Unfortunately, the additional weapons systems proved too much weight for the aircraft's thrusters, and the original prototype was shot down by a krak missile fired by an untrained cultist during an inspection. An enterprising young Lexmechanic had seen the design specifications, however, and created a variant suited to 'instil the fear of the Emperor-Omnissiah in those gutless heretics', finding the Aquila's distinctive silhouette to be reason enough to create a true combat craft.

An Aquila Hunter is a Fast Attack choice for an Adepta Sororitas army.

Aquila HunterUnit BS F S R HP Aquila 4 11 11 10 3

Aquila {Fast Attack}..........130 points per model
Unit Type
- Flyer (Hover Mode)
Unit Composition
- 1-3 Aquila Hunters
Wargear
-Nose-mounted Turreted Heavy Bolter
- 4 Wing-mounted Incendiary Bombs
- 2 Wing-mounted Hellstrike Missiles
- Defensive Skyshard Bolter
- Searchlight
Special Rules
- Supersonic
- Outflank
- Strafing Run
Transport Capacity
- None
Options
Any Aquila Hunter may take any of the following:
- Flare/chaff Launcher: +10 points/model
- Armoured Cockpit: +15 points/model
- Illum Flares: +5 points/model
- Distinctive Paint Scheme or Markings: +10 points/model
- Jericho's Siren: +15 points/model
Any Aquila may replace its Heavy Bolter with:
- A multi-melta: Free
- A Fireball Projector: +10 points
Any Aquila may:
- Take 2 hunter-killer missiles: +10 points each
- Exchange 4 Tactical Bombs for 2 Hellstrike Missiles: Free
- Exchange 2 Hellstrike Missiles for a Rotary Bolt Cannon: 10 points
- Exchange Skyshard Bolter for a Skyhunter Multi-melta: Free

Jericho's Siren: Any enemy unit the Aquila Hunter passes over on a turn it arrives from Reserves or Ongoing Reserves must take a Leadership check at -2 or become Pinned as the siren's distinctive wail drives them to seek cover from its devastating strafing runs. Fearless enemies must take the Pinning check, and are affected due to the disorienting harmonics and sheer power of the sonic assault, but may use their full Leadership score.

Defensive Skyshard Bolter: This weapon may fire at a different target to the other weapons mounted on the Aquila Hunter as long as they are within the firing arc of the Defensive turret.

Weapons
Weapon Range Strength AP Type Skyshard Bolter 36" 5 4 Heavy 3, Skyfire, Twin-linked Skyhunter Multi-melta 24" 8 1 Heavy 1, Skyfire, Melta, Twin-linked Rotary Bolt Cannon 36" 5 4 Heavy 7 Incendiary Bombs Bombing Run 4 5 One Use Only, Heavy d3, Small Blast, Ignores Cover Fireball Projector 12" 6 3 Heavy 3, Blast, Creeping Barrage*, Ignores Cover

*Creeping Barrage: This weapon functions as a Barrage weapon, but third template is placed adjacent to the second template, rather than the first as normal.

I love the siren. What's your issue with the Valkyrie, though?

What's up with the noise weapons of the SoB being better at pinning than a salvo from fully equipped Noise Marines, anyway?

Because miracles!

Okay maybe that is an issue

Because the Noise Marines don't bother with adding subharmonics to pin the enemy when they can simply liquify them.

Basically: Noise Marines could if they wanted to. But they can do better, so they don't.

As for the Valkyrie, it's partly the weight/power ratio, and the cramping issue and... well. The Valkyrie can carry 12 humans our of power armour.. or 12 humans in power armour. A Sister in full armour should take up more space than a flak armoured para.

She should, but maybe not enough to matter in game terms. Remember that a Space Marine and a Guardsman both count as one passenger ; you have to be Terminator-sized before you can't fit in the same space. I find it far more believable that 12 Sisters in power armour can cram into a space designed for 12 men in flak jackets than I can that a Rhino can hold either 10 Guardsmen in flak jackets or 10 steroidal superhuman meat-mountains in power armour whose pauldrons alone are bigger than my entire torso.

Just imagine the Sisters all sitting hip to armoured hip. Kinda snuggly, almost. I'm sure that they've long since been conditioned out of any personal space issues....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ELYSIAN DROP TROOPER (looking into Sororitas Valkyrie): Gee, they pack you girls in tight, don't they?
SISTER KORIANDER: It's our shapely hips!
SISTER RAVEN: And inch-think armour.
ELYSIAN: Don't you need more room?
SISTER KORIANDER: Nope!
SISTER RAVEN: We don't smell as bad as you guys do, you see.
[beat]
ELYSIAN: Damn, girl.
[Elysian walks away and, as soon as he's out of sight, starts sniffing his underarms]
ELYSIAN: Damn, she's right.

And gonna cross-post that to the joke thread now....

hehe, but it's not so much about the size of the models, it's the difference between 80lbs of kit on the guardman and nearly a tonne of kit on the Sister.

Psienesis wrote:Like "Marchesa-Pattern Valkyrie" or something along those lines.

lol - that's almost subversive of you

(though it does sound pretty..)

+1 for giving me that silly amusing mental image of someone shoveling entire crates worth of spent bolter shells out of a flyer, too

"Dammit, this is not what I signed up for. I feel like a servitor!" - "Shut up and get with the shoveling, Lady Nicola says we are to fly another pass!"

Anyways, I agree that deciding on a role first is a good approach. It also prevents "bloating" by limiting the number of flyers on the basis of practical needs rather than what sounds cool (which is usually more than the former).

Furyou Miko wrote:hehe, but it's not so much about the size of the models, it's the difference between 80lbs of kit on the guardman and nearly a tonne of kit on the Sister.

Well, in terms of space, one should be as good as the other, roughly? The Angel's power pack is only slightly larger than a parachute backpack, or grav chute, or whatever, and the armour itself is only as bulky as Kasrkin carapace.

Now, if you were referring to weight limitations, that would of course be a different issue ... that said, if we were to go with the specs provided by GW in the old Codex: Angels of Death, Space Marine power armour weighs about 113 kg ("250 lbs"). Let's give the Sisters a discount for the smaller frame, but add their weapons for an even +100 kilos per Sister, or an additional ton for the full squad. Forge World has a transport variant of the Valkyrie that replaces the passenger compartment with a grappler for airlifting Tauros cars or Sentinel walkers, so it should be able to deal with +650 kilos compared to a normal squad of paratroopers (who may have only 36 kilos of kit each, as per your assessment).
Now, I usually don't place too much faith in FW fluff most of the time, but in this case I see no reason to disagree with it. Call it cherrypicking if you will.

Also, ever since reading James Swallow's Hammer & Anvil, I've grown really fond of his Sororitas version of the Tauros, and the Sororitas fielding Valkyries could then include the Sky Talon variant for airdropping them, with compatibility of spare parts and expertise shared between that version and the infantry one.

Let the Space Marines keep their Hind gunship - Sisters get sleek Blackhawks.

AnomanderRake wrote:^This is why I'm annoyed they discontinued Aeronautica Imperialis.

And Epic40k!

 Furyou Miko wrote:
hehe, but it's not so much about the size of the models, it's the difference between 80lbs of kit on the guardman and nearly a tonne of kit on the Sister.

SISTER RAVEN: Are you saying I look fat in this?

Lynata went through some plausible numbers -- I don't think a Sister in full kit weighs anywhere near a ton.

Yes, she weighs more, but aircraft don't stop flying because you add a ton of weight (well, unless you hit maximum takeoff weight), you just burn more few per mile flown and thus lose range. (Range-payload curves, I believe, is the technical term for these tradeoffs). The UH-60 Black Hawk can carry 11 troops or 1.2 tonnes internally -- that's over 100 kg per man -- but can sling-load another 3.6 to 4.1 tonnes of cargo under the hull. You just don't fly far or fast on a tank of gas with the maximum load.

I wonder if you can sling-load say, a howitzer or small vehicle under a Valkyrie? Probably the higher speed and downward-venting jet exhaust would make it unwise.

Enjoying this thread, here's one I made up a few years ago thought you guys might like it. Personally I'd go for Marine tech over IG sorry AM as it fits with the rest of the army better imho despite its err challenging looks.



Sisters of Battle, Virtue-class Gunship................................................200 Points.

BS 4 Armour F 12 S 12 R12 HP 3

Unit Composition:
+ 1 Virtue-class Gunship
Unit Type:
+ Vehicle (Flyer, Hover, Transport)

Wargear:
+ Fireburst Missile Array.
+ 1 Twin-linked Heavy Bolter with Inferno Bolts.
+ Ceramite Plating.

Transport Capacity:
+ 15 Models.

Special Rules:
+ Aquila Assault.
+ Advanced Cogitator.
+ Shield of the Emperor.
+ Engine Redundancy.

Options:
+ May replace twin-linked Heavy Bolter with:
-Twin-linked multi-melta.....................................................free.
-Excoriator.............................................................................25 points.

+ May take sponsons with Phoenix Bolters............................25 points.

+ May take any of the following:
-Searchlight..........................................................................1 point.
-Extra armour.......................................................................15 points.

Wargear:
Fireburst Missile Array:

R36 S4 AP6 Heavy2, Blast, Ignore cover.

Phoenix Bolters: Counts as three Twin-Linked Bolters that have the following profile.

R18 S4 AP5 Rapid fire, Pinning.

Excoriator:

R48 S8 AP1 Heavy D3

Ceramite shielding: The Virtue’s hull is designed to survive high speed, high angle of attack atmospheric re-entry, this provides a resistance to Melta weapons which do not receive an extra D6 armour penetration when targeting the Virtue.

Fire Points: None.

Access Points: The Virtue-class has four 1F 2S (removed if Phoenix bolter sponsons taken) 1 R

Special Rules:
Aquila Assault: The Virtue-class is designed for high speed dives into enemy territory using its speed to evade enemy AA fire and fliers whilst maintaining a lock on the landing zone. With its advanced guidance systems and powerful engines the Virtue can deliver its cargo with uncanny precision. The Virtue-class may Outflank.

Advanced Cogitator: The power of the Ommnisiah flows though the Virtue-class allowing multiple weapon systems to deliver death to the enemy. The Virtue-class may fire one weapon at a different target unit than the other weapons mounted on the vehicle. It may fire one more weapon than normal at full Ballistic skill if it hasn't moved Flat Out.

Engine Redundancy: The Virtue-class is renowned for its ability to absorb the worst punishment the enemy can dish out and still keep flying. The first time an Immobilised result is rolled on the damage table treat the result as a Crew Stunned instead.

Shield of the Emperor: The Virtue-class gunship has a 6+ Invulnerable save.

The Virtue-class Gunship is a Heavy support choice for a Sisters of Battle army.

+1 for giving me that silly amusing mental image of someone shoveling entire crates worth of spent bolter shells out of a flyer, too

Oh, it has real-life inspiration. The C-130 gunship mounted 2 GE M61 Vulcan cannons, on one side, cranking out up to 6000 rounds per minute, with an infantry-support weapon of a 7.62mm minigun with a similar rate of fire.

The crew chief just stood there with the loading ramp open and shoveled brass out the ass-end of the plane while on station, flying around in a circle while it rained hot death on whoever was unlucky enough to draw its attention.

Of real-world interest regarding this plane:

US Military wrote:The AC-130 Gunship has been criticized for being too heavily armed and providing an overwhelming display of force. However, the Air Force Special Operations Command has moved in recent years to add more firepower to the aircraft.

... there is no such thing as "too much dakka".

Another awesome Sisterized Stormraven variant from 1000 Nuns (so the Excoriator is half an Exorcist?). My problem with these is that they're too awesome: Sisters get better gear than Guard, but I have trouble seeing them with the over the top superhero stuff the Marines have. A dropship that comes in from the flank, all guns blazing with Omnissiah-induced accuracy, is a bit too much for me....

I updated my Flyers and got the link working again.

Lynta, you would like J3f's Sororitized Lightning fighter. (And, uh, Peregrine would hate it, I guess).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Um, also I made some Imperial Navy landing craft to carry people who aren't Marines. The smaller Juno carries 36 Guardsmen (or Sisters). The bigger Overlord can carry a Baneblade.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
hehe, but it's not so much about the size of the models, it's the difference between 80lbs of kit on the guardman and nearly a tonne of kit on the Sister.

SISTER RAVEN: Are you saying I look fat in this?

Lynata went through some plausible numbers -- I don't think a Sister in full kit weighs anywhere near a ton.

Yes, she weighs more, but aircraft don't stop flying because you add a ton of weight (well, unless you hit maximum takeoff weight), you just burn more few per mile flown and thus lose range. (Range-payload curves, I believe, is the technical term for these tradeoffs). The UH-60 Black Hawk can carry 11 troops or 1.2 tonnes internally -- that's over 100 kg per man -- but can sling-load another 3.6 to 4.1 tonnes of cargo under the hull. You just don't fly far or fast on a tank of gas with the maximum load.

I wonder if you can sling-load say, a howitzer or small vehicle under a Valkyrie? Probably the higher speed and downward-venting jet exhaust would make it unwise.

The problem with comparing the Valkyrie to the Black Hawk is that one's a VTOL jet aircraft and one's a helicopter, one of those modes of propulsion is a little more fuel-efficient trying to take off than the other. There's also the fact that running from the weight figures given by Forge World a Valkyrie is closer in specifications to a Mi-24 than a Black Hawk seeing as it weighs thirteen metric tons empty (compared to just under five for the Black Hawk and eighteen for the Mi-24), and the Mi-24 can haul about half the load of the Black Hawk on 20% more horsepower; I don't think the Valkyrie's got a lot of weight to spare.

Based on the Army Weight Chart for Females and the figures given in Dark Heresy I'm estimating a fully-kitted Sister of Battle at roughly 150-160kg, compared to maybe a hundred and twenty for a fully-kitted Stormtrooper (assuming he's geared for combat as a paratrooper and not for long stays in the field); a fully-kitted Space Marine (based on assuming he's the same density as a human soldier only seven feet tall) is coming in at closer to 300kg, a Terminator is closing on 700kg (which actually makes the one Terminator taking up the space of two Space Marines thing somewhat sensible). Running with these entirely unofficial and very approximate figures a Valkyrie carrying a dozen Sisters of Battle is going to be pushing the bounds of its weight limitations and it probably couldn't haul actual Space Marines (who are bigger, heavier, and wear heavier armour), which is actually another reason I think the Stormraven (designed to carry four metric tons of Space Marines and a twelve-metric-ton Dreadnaught) or the Storm Eagle (designed to carry eight metric tons of Space Marines) are better bases for a Sisters flyer than the Valkyrie.

Damn, you've done your homework. And you're right the Valkyrie is closer to a Hind than to a Black Hawk. But I think there's a limit on how much we can extrapolate.... especially since, if I recall correctly, the Valkyrie is supposed to have enough lift to make it to space.

If a Valk has enough power and fuel to escape the atmosphere, even if not to make it to space proper (presumably the Navy mothership could come down to the upper thermosphere, where the Space Shuttle tops out), I think there's enough margin for atmospheric flight to carry 50% more kilograms of passenger. Maybe a Sororitas Valkyrie with 12 Sisters in it can't make it to space, but it's gonna be able to do in-atmosphere missions or, for that matter, drop down from an orbiting transport to the surface.