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Aha, I forgot about the weird positioning of the weapon on drop pods. Good point.

Why BS2? without a decent Ballistics Skill the Drop Pod's dead weight after delivering its payload. Also the Original Dominica Pattern Drop Pod had BS4

Why does it have so many weapons options? Especially with BS2, besides the Heavy Flamer? Marine Drop Pods get 1 weapons upgrade and its pretty meh.

I'd up the Ballistic Skill back to 4, so it can actually do something past turn 1 and get rid of its current options and just make the Stormbolter standard with the option to upgrade to a Heavy Bolter.

Currently the Heavy Flamer is by far the best option, just plunk it down next to an objective and it'll serve as area denial unit, especially against troop units who aren't packing a decent amount of anti-armour.

The Multi-melta just isn't in a good position to be mounted on a Drop Pod. At BS2 the weapon is nearly useless, since it's a single shot weapon. At BS4 it's too good because you could take 5 Drop Pods and Alpha Strike in 3 on your first turn, instead of or in addition to a Dominion squad.

Marines get Missiles as an upgrade option. Is it really that unrealistic that Sisters would take a different option?

And the Heavy Flamer would barely have the range to reach past the doors when they're down unless it gets torrent or something.

And yes, BS4 could be explained away by claiming that sometimes in death a Sister is able to still serve by their brain being interned into the Drop Pod, serving as well in death as they did in life as they bring their weapon to bear.

There, now we just added like 20 Grimdark to the idea and made a reason for BS4 that fits the Ecclesiarchy's theme of "reduce, reuse, recycle" when it comes to martyrs and saints.

Well I'm against Heavy Flamers getting torrent, that would be ridiculous considering how rare Torrent is in 40k.

Also Sororitas Dreadpods? I don't think Drop Pods are recovered very often. It's probably cheaper to just leave them on the battlefield or make them self destruct. With a Dreadnought you can airlift it off the ground fairly easily, but a Drop Pod? They'd be abandoning a Sister every time they deep strike.

Wouldn't it just make more sense for the Drop Pod to have more advanced targeting systems because of its STC, and the Ad Mech haven't adopted its technology to any other servitor controlled systems because, LOL Innovation.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And yes, BS4 could be explained away by claiming that sometimes in death a Sister is able to still serve by their brain being interned into the Drop Pod, serving as well in death as they did in life as they bring their weapon to bear.

A Sisters entire life is spent hoping to die for the Emperor, servitor Sister would be the worst kind of punishment.

How's this for an alternative to Torrent?

Flower of Flame:
Dominica-pattern drop pods often have flamer pipes built into the insides of their doors. When the pod lands and opens, it unfolds like a flower of purifying flame.
If a Dominica-pattern drop pod is armed with a heavy flamer, then, when firing, you may place the narrow end of the template in context with any part of the model.


As for ballistic skill, I'm pretty happy with BS:2. Given the existence of Arco-Flagellants and Penitent Engines, the Ecclesiarchy seems to view servitor-dom as a hellish punishment, not something to be inflicted on a loyal Sister. And having the Sisters' pod be less high-tech and more brutal than the Marines' fits the theme of the army. (It also allows having the whole holy trinity of weapons available as options without creating a BS:4 multimelta death monster).

 dracpanzer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And yes, BS4 could be explained away by claiming that sometimes in death a Sister is able to still serve by their brain being interned into the Drop Pod, serving as well in death as they did in life as they bring their weapon to bear.

A Sisters entire life is spent hoping to die for the Emperor, servitor Sister would be the worst kind of punishment.

Thought of the Day: "Even in death, I still serve."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 J3f wrote:
Well I'm against Heavy Flamers getting torrent, that would be ridiculous considering how rare Torrent is in 40k.

Also Sororitas Dreadpods? I don't think Drop Pods are recovered very often. It's probably cheaper to just leave them on the battlefield or make them self destruct. With a Dreadnought you can airlift it off the ground fairly easily, but a Drop Pod? They'd be abandoning a Sister every time they deep strike.

Wouldn't it just make more sense for the Drop Pod to have more advanced targeting systems because of its STC, and the Ad Mech haven't adopted its technology to any other servitor controlled systems because, LOL Innovation.

No, Drop Pods are fluffed as being recovered whenever possible. Even if it'd be cheaper you have to imagine the length of time the may not have a resupply for and how far they'd have to go to get replacements if they did that.

The original Dominica Pattern had no guns. Then there was an all-gun machine spirit piloted Drop Pod that sisters used as part of their assaults that also was based on the Dominica.

edited for accuracy

Actually, if you look closely at the page you posted, BOTH the gunship version under Heavy Support AND the 12-passenger version under "Transport Option" are identified as "Drop Pod (Dominica Pattern)." Same name, different stats. Go figure.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Actually, if you look closely at the page you posted, BOTH the gunship version under Heavy Support AND the 12-passenger version under "Transport Option" are identified as "Drop Pod (Dominica Pattern)." Same name, different stats. Go figure.

I edited before you responded. Either way, dropping a storm bolter on the transport is probably a good idea.

I'm confused about 12-10-10. Were Drop Pods not circular back then?

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'm confused about 12-10-10. Were Drop Pods not circular back then?

12 when sealed, 10 when open.

Drop pods were circular but the Earth was believed to be flat.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'm confused about 12-10-10. Were Drop Pods not circular back then?

The 'front' armour on a drop pod was the bottom bit, so things with the 3e equivalent of Interceptor would hit that, then when it was on the ground the doors opened - all anyone could get LoS to was the side/rear armour (the 'sides' being the five vertical panels because of the direction the pod moved in before landing, and the 'rear' being the top of the pod).

The rule is right on the screen shot.

So I don't want to create a new thread for it but I had a thought recently on something that might work to help make Celestians more interesting:

Give them Stormbolters base. 2 shots at 24" makes them a bit shootier than a standard 10 Sister Squad, and with them being Assault Weapons they could actually charge with a Canoness and/or a Priest to finish the job against severely weakened units.

It wouldn't fix everything, but I think it'd be a great place to start for the unit (the other things I'd run with are a points drop and giving them Chainswords base) and would make the Canoness actually have a place to go that would work for her (especially with Stormbolters on the Command Squad Celestians too).

Yeah, Stormbolters as the base weapon on Celestians was what I was thinking too, back before the digidex when I was thinking of writing a full fandex instead of an expansion. That's harder to do now I've self-imposed the limit of making everything fully compatible with the current codex -- I guess you could give Celestians the option to buy up to a Stormbolter for less than the usual amount of points, but people would point to the rulebooks that all say they're 5 ppm....

 SisterSydney wrote:
Yeah, Stormbolters as the base weapon on Celestians was what I was thinking too, back before the digidex when I was thinking of writing a full fandex instead of an expansion. That's harder to do now I've self-imposed the limit of making everything fully compatible with the current codex -- I guess you could give Celestians the option to buy up to a Stormbolter for less than the usual amount of points, but people would point to the rulebooks that all say they're 5 ppm....

Consider it an errata to the current codex.

And yeah, they'd argue they're 5 points, but Celestians are over costed so making the change with no points upgrade so it'd be better balanced than they are now.

Giving them stormbolters wouldn't do much, except make them more shooty against soft targets.

If you think 14 point Celestians should start with Stormbolters then you'd also have to argue for Battle sisters that cost less than 9 points.

What they need is the ability to take Power Weapons, and a few buffs.

My Celestians are costed at 17 points and come with Counter-attack and the Holy Hatred special rule form Codex Witch Hunters. They can all take Power Weapons and Superior can even take a Praesidium Protectiva (Storm Shield).

Veteran Celestians (Sororitas Command Squad) Can all take any Special Weapon including a Stormbolter.

Allowing every Celestian (not just SCS) to take power weapons would be interesting, but the pricing is tricky. At the standard 15 ppm, it's just not worth it.

Power Weapons are overpriced at 15 points.

Everyone should get them at 10 points, like how Inquisitors currently do.

You're probably right -- and in a from-scratch fandex I'd do that. One of my self-imposed limitations is that I have to stay fully compatible with the current codex, including its Melee Weapons list.

Will this fandex have alternate Detachments/FoC options?

There are formations, though those are not exactly the same.

Aha, you found my attempt at formations. I wasn't sufficiently satisfied with them to include them in this "official" compilation, but I'd love more critique so I can improve them. My current concern is that a lot of friendly opponents might be willing to let you play with a homebrew unit or a homebrew formation/detachment/FOC, but it'd be a lot rarer to find one who'd be okay with a homebrew formation of homebrew units -- and for good reason: the opportunities for brokenness increase exponentially when you're messing with the rules on multiple levels. I tried some FOC-swapping Canoness upgrades a while back and people warned me I was heading down a dark and dangerous path.

 J3f wrote:
Giving them stormbolters wouldn't do much, except make them more shooty against soft targets.

If you think 14 point Celestians should start with Stormbolters then you'd also have to argue for Battle sisters that cost less than 9 points.

What they need is the ability to take Power Weapons, and a few buffs.

My Celestians are costed at 17 points and come with Counter-attack and the Holy Hatred special rule form Codex Witch Hunters. They can all take Power Weapons and Superior can even take a Praesidium Protectiva (Storm Shield).

Veteran Celestians (Sororitas Command Squad) Can all take any Special Weapon including a Stormbolter.

I disagree. Storm Bolters also make you more shooty at the things you want to punch since they're Assault 2.

Also Sisters would be fine at 10. Replacing the Bolter with a Stombolter, while adding +1WS/A would be fine at 14 points. Or do you want to tell me that this game really uses full points costs on things when Tact Marines are currently only 2ppm more than Battle Sisters despite the major stat line upgrade?

I priced Battle Sisters at 11 ppm. The Ability to take 2 special weapons or 1 special and 1 heavy in a 5 woman squad makes up for the stat line differences as well as being 3 points cheaper.

Also I said sub 9 points, by your pricing Celestians should be 15 points and I'd be fine with them having stormbolters and costing 17 points, 1 more point for +1 WS/A.

In my Codex a Canoness with a Jump Pack can take a unit of Seraphim in place of a Sororitas Command Squad. Any other FOC swaps, except vehicles not named the Exorcist would be really OP, and be objectively better than Battle Sister Squads.

Sticking within my own "Codex-compliant" framework, I could see letting Celestians (including in SCS) take a chainsword [in addition to their existing bolter & bolt pistol] for 1 ppm.

Swap regular Bolters for Storm Bolters, maybe 2 ppm? I'm a little more leery there.

Why would they pay less than CSM pay for Combi-bolters for a Stormbolter? Would you also discount other Special Weapons?

Hmmm. Chaos Chosen get to trade a bolter for a combi-bolter at only 3 ppm. As a multi-purpose (shooty and choppy) elite unit, they're actually a good model for Celestians.

You guys are forgetting that a CSM is tougher than a Sister which is a big reason why Sisters shouldn't be paying as much for things as the Marines do.

And no one has yet to prove to me why Celestians can't be 14ppm when a tact marine is still tougher, faster and stronger than she is. Her gaining assault on her weapon and an extra shot at 24" is not so much to offset the advantages that ATSKNF, Chaper Tactics, and +1 S/T/I has, even when they lose an attack in comparison.