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 Exergy wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Picked up my first squad of Skitarii today.
Allied them with my Tau and played a game against GK. My Ranger squad's Arquebus got a kill a turn, and my Vanguard took 2 hull points off a Land Raider before being AssCanned.

How many Arquebus's and were the precision kills?

I would expect 3 of them to kill a meq a turn, but that isnt terribly point efficient and if you dont get to pick the model removed it's very lackluster.

1 Arquebus, 0 precision kills. However, due to my opponent's positioning, it killed 3 PA GKs with Hammers and took a hull point off a Land Raider.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I played a proxy game recently against a local ultra-marine player, and it went kinda pearshaped for me. The slowness of skitarii really hurts for footslogging units, and a single ironclad dread was the worst unit to fight against. Dropped down and roasted my warlord squad!


I do think that skitarii need some transports.

I feel like the Plasma Obliterator was meant to house the Vanguard Warlord Squad. The preferred enemy keeps the big gun safe and the fortificaion protects the warlord. Add an escape hatch and they can hop out and grab an objective in the last turn. Not bad.

 Dramagod2 wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I played a proxy game recently against a local ultra-marine player, and it went kinda pearshaped for me. The slowness of skitarii really hurts for footslogging units, and a single ironclad dread was the worst unit to fight against. Dropped down and roasted my warlord squad!


I do think that skitarii need some transports.

I feel like the Plasma Obliterator was meant to house the Vanguard Warlord Squad. The preferred enemy keeps the big gun safe and the fortificaion protects the warlord. Add an escape hatch and they can hop out and grab an objective in the last turn. Not bad.

Thats an idea too. well we still have the rules and such... at least.


Would the same work in a battlecannon redebout?

Just keep in mind that Pens on a Building can be devastating to Infantry inside. Even a roll of 3 causes D6 S6 hits.

DaPino wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I played a proxy game recently against a local ultra-marine player, and it went kinda pearshaped for me. The slowness of skitarii really hurts for footslogging units, and a single ironclad dread was the worst unit to fight against. Dropped down and roasted my warlord squad!


I do think that skitarii need some transports.

You do know Infiltrators, Ruststalkers, Dragoons, Balistarii and Onagers add 3" to their move, run and charge, right?

The only unit that suffers from being slow are vanguards.

Onagers don't have Dunestrider, they only move 6".

Yes, instead of Dunestrider, Onagers ignore difficult and dangerous terrain, but can't Run.

Yep, but they have the range, so you are not as worried about it.

nudibranch wrote:

DaPino wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I played a proxy game recently against a local ultra-marine player, and it went kinda pearshaped for me. The slowness of skitarii really hurts for footslogging units, and a single ironclad dread was the worst unit to fight against. Dropped down and roasted my warlord squad!


I do think that skitarii need some transports.

You do know Infiltrators, Ruststalkers, Dragoons, Balistarii and Onagers add 3" to their move, run and charge, right?

The only unit that suffers from being slow are vanguards.

Onagers don't have Dunestrider, they only move 6".

My bad, but the point still stands. Most units that need it have decent mobility, even without transports.

 KiloFiX wrote:
Just keep in mind that Pens on a Building can be devastating to Infantry inside. Even a roll of 3 causes D6 S6 hits.

This is very true, but its still better than the alternatives: being out in the open, in a transport, or in cover, Luckily AV14 all around isnt that easy to pen. Add a void shield and that can help as well. The vanguard warlord is just so squishy theres not really anywhere you can put him that he isn't going to be in some kind of danger. I just feel like a fortification is the best option.

DaPino wrote:

nudibranch wrote:

DaPino wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I played a proxy game recently against a local ultra-marine player, and it went kinda pearshaped for me. The slowness of skitarii really hurts for footslogging units, and a single ironclad dread was the worst unit to fight against. Dropped down and roasted my warlord squad!


I do think that skitarii need some transports.

You do know Infiltrators, Ruststalkers, Dragoons, Balistarii and Onagers add 3" to their move, run and charge, right?

The only unit that suffers from being slow are vanguards.

Onagers don't have Dunestrider, they only move 6".

My bad, but the point still stands. Most units that need it have decent mobility, even without transports.

Yea, I know. it just seems that vanguard are fairly slow, and that may be the bulk of my future armies. the transports may protect against most anti-infantry fire (until a lascannon blows it up or something. I play space marines so I know how it goes ) For now I may just go unbound and use a mechanized army list.

I'm actually thinking about getting an inquisitor for a warlord, and putting him in a heavy weapon servitor squad. do you know how many plasma cannons you can get? anyone? =D

 Dramagod2 wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
Just keep in mind that Pens on a Building can be devastating to Infantry inside. Even a roll of 3 causes D6 S6 hits.

This is very true, but its still better than the alternatives: being out in the open, in a transport, or in cover, Luckily AV14 all around isnt that easy to pen. Add a void shield and that can help as well. The vanguard warlord is just so squishy theres not really anywhere you can put him that he isn't going to be in some kind of danger. I just feel like a fortification is the best option.

With Eldar getting destroyer weapons on everything this becomes a lot less true.

Still one cannot really try and play against Eldar competitively.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

DaPino wrote:

nudibranch wrote:

DaPino wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I played a proxy game recently against a local ultra-marine player, and it went kinda pearshaped for me. The slowness of skitarii really hurts for footslogging units, and a single ironclad dread was the worst unit to fight against. Dropped down and roasted my warlord squad!


I do think that skitarii need some transports.

You do know Infiltrators, Ruststalkers, Dragoons, Balistarii and Onagers add 3" to their move, run and charge, right?

The only unit that suffers from being slow are vanguards.

Onagers don't have Dunestrider, they only move 6".

My bad, but the point still stands. Most units that need it have decent mobility, even without transports.

Yea, I know. it just seems that vanguard are fairly slow, and that may be the bulk of my future armies. the transports may protect against most anti-infantry fire (until a lascannon blows it up or something. I play space marines so I know how it goes ) For now I may just go unbound and use a mechanized army list.

I'm actually thinking about getting an inquisitor for a warlord, and putting him in a heavy weapon servitor squad. do you know how many plasma cannons you can get? anyone? =D

In a inquisition warband you can get a max of 3 heavy weapons

Super Newb wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

DaPino wrote:

nudibranch wrote:

DaPino wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I played a proxy game recently against a local ultra-marine player, and it went kinda pearshaped for me. The slowness of skitarii really hurts for footslogging units, and a single ironclad dread was the worst unit to fight against. Dropped down and roasted my warlord squad!


I do think that skitarii need some transports.

You do know Infiltrators, Ruststalkers, Dragoons, Balistarii and Onagers add 3" to their move, run and charge, right?

The only unit that suffers from being slow are vanguards.

Onagers don't have Dunestrider, they only move 6".

My bad, but the point still stands. Most units that need it have decent mobility, even without transports.

Yea, I know. it just seems that vanguard are fairly slow, and that may be the bulk of my future armies. the transports may protect against most anti-infantry fire (until a lascannon blows it up or something. I play space marines so I know how it goes ) For now I may just go unbound and use a mechanized army list.

I'm actually thinking about getting an inquisitor for a warlord, and putting him in a heavy weapon servitor squad. do you know how many plasma cannons you can get? anyone? =D

In a inquisition warband you can get a max of 3 heavy weapons

oh that few? well there goes some hype >.< still it would be fairly cool and a nice way to add some psychic powers to a list. Or a land raider

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that special weapons on Rangers just flat out impede them.

Arc rifle and calivers are too short-ranged for them (rhey dit vanguard better) and Aqueribus' are just too damn expensive to be worth their points.

DaPino wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that special weapons on Rangers just flat out impede them.

Arc rifle and calivers are too short-ranged for them (rhey dit vanguard better) and Aqueribus' are just too damn expensive to be worth their points.

I'm having a hard time adding any rangers and am planning an all Vanguard army so far. Vanguard with arc rifles. Plasma cavaliers are great, but for 3 of them I can have another spider bot and use the cheap vanguard for the weight of fire.

Right now I'm trying to figure out some good delivery methods. Drop pods from normal space marines maybe?

DaPino wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that special weapons on Rangers just flat out impede them.

Arc rifle and calivers are too short-ranged for them (rhey dit vanguard better) and Aqueribus' are just too damn expensive to be worth their points.

Honestly, I don't think they're too bad for the points. I always have a squad sitting on my backfield objective, and they are a nice deterrant for non-TEQs entering their sight line. A Tyranid, SM, or DEldar player worrying about essentially auto-losing wounds on a MC, MEQ or light vehicle if it enters a certain area on the board is fairly powerful.

It's hard to pass up on vanguard being cheaper and in many cases better. While I am a fan of the precision shots I just see the vanguard abilities fitting into my list much better

 Swara wrote:

DaPino wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that special weapons on Rangers just flat out impede them.

Arc rifle and calivers are too short-ranged for them (rhey dit vanguard better) and Aqueribus' are just too damn expensive to be worth their points.

I'm having a hard time adding any rangers and am planning an all Vanguard army so far. Vanguard with arc rifles. Plasma cavaliers are great, but for 3 of them I can have another spider bot and use the cheap vanguard for the weight of fire.

Right now I'm trying to figure out some good delivery methods. Drop pods from normal space marines maybe?

You would not be able to use normal space marine drop pods. They are dedicated transports. You need space wolves or blood angels as their pods are fast attack choices.

Personally, my Skitarii are backing up my armored battle company. Putting the vangaurd in a vendetta to transport them.

Wish I had some open top transports.
Here's for hoping for a even bigger spider tank in admech.

Yea I feel we missed out for some awesome transports, a 6 inch scout is nice and all but I would like a same-faction metal box to put my guys in.

GKs FA options work real well as well.
What I see from Skit's is the sheer amount of MSU they can bring. Man, it reminds me of my Tyranids.
Here's a really funny list I made up as a joke.
Let me know what you think, hahaha.
Sure each individual unit is pretty fragile... but there are so many...
And their doctrines help BOTH sides (dragoons vs ballistarii) so much, it seems like a fun list.


1500 pts ----------------------------------------

Nemesis Strike Force
---------------------------
HQ -
* Librarian; ML3, Hammer [140]

Troops -
* Terminator Squad; x1 Hammer, x1 Psycannon [195]

Fast Attack -
* Rhino; extra armor [45]
* Rhino; extra armor [45]

Heavy Support -
* Nemesis Dreadknight; GS, H-Psycannon, PT [205]
* Nemesis Dreadknight; GS, H-Psycannon, PT [205]

Skitarii Maniple
--------------------------
Troops -
* Vanguard - 5 man; 2 Arc Rifles, 1 Omnispex [95]
* Vanguard - 5 man; 2 Arc Rifles, 1 Omnispex [95]

Fast Attack -
*Dragoon; Taser [45]
*Dragoon; Taser [45]

Heavy Support - (separate squads)
* Ironstrider Ballistarii; Cognis Autocannon [55]
* Ironstrider Ballistarii; Cognis Autocannon [55]
* Ironstrider Ballistarii; Cognis Autocannon [55]

------------------------

Formation
------------------------
Ironstrider Cavaliers [145]
*Dragoon; Taser [45]
*Dragoon; Taser [45]
* Ironstrider Ballistarii; Cognis Autocannon [55]


Fortification
---------------
Void Shield Generator
- x2 Projected Void Shields [75]

I think rhinos would serve the skitarii well. 5 mans with two specials and two fire points. Once the wave serpent changes over I think it will offer a reasonable and reliable form of protection. Who knows we might use smoke launchers again!!

 Swara wrote:
I'm having a hard time adding any rangers and am planning an all Vanguard army so far. Vanguard with arc rifles.

Rangers I think would be ok sitting on an objective. Maybe a ten man squad with NO specials. Or maybe a ten man squad with at most two arc rifles. Anything other than that and I feel like points are wasted. The Vanguard are cheaper and if they are in range their stock guns are better. And of course if Vanguard have Arc Rifles they'll actually end up in rapid fire range, whereas the Rangers probably would not.

Plasma cavaliers are great, but for 3 of them I can have another spider bot and use the cheap vanguard for the weight of fire.

Yes, their plasma is expensive but it can be worth it. 9 plasma shots coming out of a drop pod at BS 7 is quite nice indeed. That can really put the hurt on or outright kill one of the enemy's big scary things. Of course if your opponent is doing MSU or spamming troops then your expensive squad may not make its points back. But if they can kill a dreadknight or something even scarier the turn they drop then that's awesome...

I would like to point out that if you play on terrain-heavy/-dense boards (as in Cities of Death dense), then Rangers might actually be generally better than Vanguard, thanks to Move Through Cover.

I would also like to point out that Rangers are Ap 4, and can wreck most non-space marine armies when in range. Seriously, denying units like necrons one of their saves can be big!

I would also like to point out that the Ranger heads are 1000x better than the Vanguard heads. Lol.

Super Newb wrote:
I would also like to point out that the Ranger heads are 1000x better than the Vanguard heads. Lol.

They look a bit cartoony to me. I like the crusader helmets of the Vanguards.

I did some research and some thinking........

I feel like the new vindicare assasin outshines the onagar with the neutron laser.
I could be wrong... but for 150pts the vindicare gets a 4++ (yeah i know T4...)
but has a 72" range.
And also has a number of nifty ammunition rules (built in precision shots automatically)

Personally, I think the Onagar is well priced alone. But the problem is is when people get sucked into paying a ridiculous amount of points to get a 4++ for the squad.
I haven't play tested it, but I can't see it being all that devastating.

The vindicare isn't really any different to how he was. The onager has a blast weapon. The vindicare is killing 1 dude a turn, if you're lucky, depending on the target.

Against TEQs i'd have the onager, against light skimmers i'd have the vindicare, against T5 multi wound models? Onager, against a squad of marines in cover? Vindicare.

They are 2 different units with massivley different roles.

For the most part Str10 AP1 blast > ap2 sniper ignores cover (precision shot)

 Verviedi wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
I would also like to point out that the Ranger heads are 1000x better than the Vanguard heads. Lol.

They look a bit cartoony to me. I like the crusader helmets of the Vanguards.

Your opinion is of course wrong and my subjective opinion is correct.