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Excellent episode, 9.5/10. We skipped the Sam part at The Wall. To us, that story line is over and we're not wasting time with him. More detailed response after sleep

Going by the previews, where it looks like the Sons of the Harpy show up and spoil the gladiatorial games going on, do we perhaps think that this then leads to...



Also, a main cast member is confirmed to be getting killed off this season... someone who's screen time has apparently been scaled way back...

I'm seriously hoping that it's not Jorah, simply because;


I think it might be;



As well, next week is the penultimate 9th episode of the season... the episode where traditionally Dan & Dave drop a massive WTF! moment or three on everyone and leave the non-book readers especially with their heads spinning and jaws ten feet behind them!

Do we think that next week is going to be; (note: if you don't want the mother of all spoilers, seriously, don't click this!!)


If we thought the internet rage explosion of the Red Wedding was truly epic, I truly can't wait for this one!

Experiment 626 wrote:
Going by the previews, where it looks like the Sons of the Harpy show up and spoil the gladiatorial games going on, do we perhaps think that this then leads to...

Spoiler:

Dany being "rescued" by Drogon and flown off to the Dothraki Sea?

Also, a main cast member is confirmed to be getting killed off this season... someone who's screen time has apparently been scaled way back...

I'm seriously hoping that it's not Jorah, simply because;

Spoiler:

In the books, he's needed to help defend Mereen which is currently under siege, and protect Tyrion who has yet to meet up with Dany. As well, there's hints that he might very well be one of the two as yet unknown dragon riders.

I think it might be;

Spoiler:

Stanis, as we've seen a lot less of him this season, and in the books, he's pretty much Mel's zombie by this point, as her magic has taken a huge toll on him, as well as the fact we know he's not Azor Ahai.

As well, next week is the penultimate 9th episode of the season... the episode where traditionally Dan & Dave drop a massive WTF! moment or three on everyone and leave the non-book readers especially with their heads spinning and jaws ten feet behind them!

Do we think that next week is going to be; (note: if you don't want the mother of all spoilers, seriously, don't click this!!)

Spoiler:

The Night's Watchmen betray Jon and leave him with 5+ knives in his back and bleeding to death on the floor of Castle Black?!

If we thought the internet rage explosion of the Red Wedding was truly epic, I truly can't wait for this one!

In answer my thoughts - for what they are worth.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Spoiler:

We are pretty sure that Jon is going to get betrayed. It's an important plot device that will surprise people who did not read the books, will cause an uproar and further blur the lines between good and evil.

It would be funny if Sansa died and stannis rallies the north.

 Ustrello wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Spoiler:

We are pretty sure that Jon is going to get betrayed. It's an important plot device that will surprise people who did not read the books, will cause an uproar and further blur the lines between good and evil.

Spoiler:

I believe this because when sam was telling olly that sometimes you ahve to do things that arent popular but are the right thing. Olly got this look in his eye, so I have a feeling olly may be the one to stab jon.

Et tu, Olly?

 Albatross wrote:
Just reflecting further on the episode, that ending scene is one of my favourite scenes in the entire show. I loved what they did there, the silence, everything.

Yeah that was really well done.

I can't imagine how much that episode cost to make, must have been one of the big spends of the series.

In fact it now makes me think why there might have been a few mis-steps in previous episodes (like the sand snakes or whatever they were called), because they were so focused on getting this one right. There must have been at least 4-5 awesome individual set pieces.

 easysauce wrote:

arya's needle is valyrian steel IIRC

Needle is most definitely not Valyrian steel. Even though there is most likely lots of Valyrian steel blades in the Seven Kingdoms, they're surprisingly hard to come by and there isn't any reserves laying around with which to forge new blades. It also takes a specially trained smith to work it, like Tobho Mott (the guy in King's Landing who Gendry apprenticed for) who was trained in Qohor.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Excellent episode, 9.5/10. We skipped the Sam part at The Wall. To us, that story line is over and we're not wasting time with him. More detailed response after sleep

Seems like the showrunners disagree, as the most recent casting call is certainly calling for Randyl Tarley.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

arya's needle is valyrian steel IIRC

Needle is most definitely not Valyrian steel. Even though there is most likely lots of Valyrian steel blades in the Seven Kingdoms, they're surprisingly hard to come by and there isn't any reserves laying around with which to forge new blades. It also takes a specially trained smith to work it, like Tobho Mott (the guy in King's Landing who Gendry apprenticed for) who was trained in Qohor.

Yup. Needle is a high quality blade, but it isn't Valyrian steel. The majority of existing Valyrian steel blades that we know of are heirloom items, and even then many noble houses don't have one.

 Hordini wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

arya's needle is valyrian steel IIRC

Needle is most definitely not Valyrian steel. Even though there is most likely lots of Valyrian steel blades in the Seven Kingdoms, they're surprisingly hard to come by and there isn't any reserves laying around with which to forge new blades. It also takes a specially trained smith to work it, like Tobho Mott (the guy in King's Landing who Gendry apprenticed for) who was trained in Qohor.

Yup. Needle is a high quality blade, but it isn't Valyrian steel. The majority of existing Valyrian steel blades that we know of are heirloom items, and even then many noble houses don't have one.

Yeah, it's stated that Tywin Lannister; for all the gold of Casterly Rock had been unable to purchase a Valyrian Steel blade to replace Brightroar from even the most impoverished of noble houses that possess one.

There are a lot of theories out their, but they seem to apply a lot better to the books, if only because the show hasn't dealt with prophecy all that much.

One is that the only reason the White Walkers are waking up is because Dragons/magic were coming into the world again and there has to be balance between the two (fire and ice).

I still think they could go with the Prince Who Was Promised route. Danny was reborn of fire. Bran is being reborn/becoming more powerful out in the icy wild.

And Jon snow

Since we first learned of the treaty between the First Men and the Children of the Forest, I've wanted to believe that Azor/the Last Hero didn't wipe out the Others/drive them back, but brokered some kind of treaty (the war ended quickly). The show hasn't really dealt with unreliable narrators as a device (besides Old Nan, maybe). But what if the Others built/help build the wall to keep the men out? Taking it further, what if the treaty was sealed with a wedding? Say between a certain Stark and a queen of night?

And is it just me, or is the eight episode usually the best for each season?

My thought is similar to that.

The Night Watch aren't the equivalent of the Roman legions stationed at Hadrians Wall defending civilisation.

Instead, they're effectively the equivalent of United Nations peacekeepers patrolling a demilitarised zone between two equally valid civilisations that have been known to war with each other.

The Walkers woke up/became active before the Dragons emerged from their eggs - so if anything its the other way round - the Dragons are reborn due to the Walkers arising?

Or it looks like it should be related - but isn't

Maybe the Walkers are a different House of old Valyria - they are inhuman but the Valyrians are not supposed to be human either....... Could be a civil war / Game of Houses on a grander scale.

I don't buy the Walkers and the Dragons being some directly opposed natural force. We have nothing except coincidence that ties them together.

I mean, look at the timelines - the Long Night happened more than 8,000 years ago, and Walkers basically weren't seen (outside of maybe the lands of always winter) since then. Dragons didn't exist on Westeros until the Conquest, what 300 years before current era?

There were as many as 20 dragons living in Westeros a hundred and thirty years after the conquest; and yet no Walkers. The walkers started returning before Daenerys's dragons hatched. I don't think we have a reason for the walkers to return at this point, and I honestly doubt we will get a deep convoluted reason - ever. I'm betting it will be a 'this just happened now'.

Dragons will most likely be a potent weapon against the walkers if they ever meet; but I doubt their relationship is causal.

 gorgon wrote:

 Dr. What wrote:
Any Walker can raise the dead. I think they just had the Night's King do it to make him more threatening. Plus it was a giant middle finger to Jon Snow, who he seems to be very interested in. (Azor Ahai? Targaryen? Just a fellow Lord Commander?)

That ep was definitely the high point of this season. Cool stuff happened, but I think it was also very well directed. The silence for the last few minutes of the episode was really effective.

 Bromsy wrote:
I don't buy the Walkers and the Dragons being some directly opposed natural force. We have nothing except coincidence that ties them together.

I mean, look at the timelines - the Long Night happened more than 8,000 years ago, and Walkers basically weren't seen (outside of maybe the lands of always winter) since then. Dragons didn't exist on Westeros until the Conquest, what 300 years before current era?

There were as many as 20 dragons living in Westeros a hundred and thirty years after the conquest; and yet no Walkers. The walkers started returning before Daenerys's dragons hatched. I don't think we have a reason for the walkers to return at this point, and I honestly doubt we will get a deep convoluted reason - ever. I'm betting it will be a 'this just happened now'.

Dragons will most likely be a potent weapon against the walkers if they ever meet; but I doubt their relationship is causal.

Dragon fire melted stone like candle wax at harenhall during the conquest of the 7 kingdoms, and we now know that the steel (does it contain a fragment of there power? Or was made with or exposed to dragon fire to give its its unique strength and durability) they made can kill white walkers, its a safe guess dragons are deadly as vs ice, fire is the undead weakness.

Plus they can fly, white walkers are yet to reveal a ranged weapon, and dragon scales by fantasey standards normaly is ment to be the hardest armour ever made.

 jhe90 wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:
I don't buy the Walkers and the Dragons being some directly opposed natural force. We have nothing except coincidence that ties them together.

I mean, look at the timelines - the Long Night happened more than 8,000 years ago, and Walkers basically weren't seen (outside of maybe the lands of always winter) since then. Dragons didn't exist on Westeros until the Conquest, what 300 years before current era?

There were as many as 20 dragons living in Westeros a hundred and thirty years after the conquest; and yet no Walkers. The walkers started returning before Daenerys's dragons hatched. I don't think we have a reason for the walkers to return at this point, and I honestly doubt we will get a deep convoluted reason - ever. I'm betting it will be a 'this just happened now'.

Dragons will most likely be a potent weapon against the walkers if they ever meet; but I doubt their relationship is causal.

Dragon fire melted stone like candle wax at harenhall during the conquest of the 7 kingdoms, and we now know that the steel (does it contain a fragment of there power? Or was made with or exposed to dragon fire to give its its unique strength and durability) they made can kill white walkers, its a safe guess dragons are deadly as vs ice, fire is the undead weakness.

Plus they can fly, white walkers are yet to reveal a ranged weapon, and dragon scales by fantasey standards normaly is ment to be the hardest armour ever made.

Well the White Walkers do have at least some weather control - which could make it tricky for Aerial Assaults but yeah Dragonfire is the way to go

Although as Tyrion said to Dany - why exactly do you want to go to Westros.........?

Wow, that was some episode. The attack on the Wildling camp was absolutely terrific - brilliant stuff.

And the way they stopped the music for the last 20 seconds or so and left the wind howlng as it faded to the credits was spot on.
More of that please.

House Drumm of the Iron islands own a Valyrian sword that they stole called red rain. Iron born would never aid in any help any way...

there is an axe made of Valyrian steel, forgot who it belongs too. The dagger used in attempt to assassinate bran is Val. steel.

If Val. Steel starts to become a focal point in the show, I have a feeling some how Blackfyre will re-appear somewhere.


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 cincydooley wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Excellent episode, 9.5/10. We skipped the Sam part at The Wall. To us, that story line is over and we're not wasting time with him. More detailed response after sleep

Seems like the showrunners disagree, as the most recent casting call is certainly calling for Randyl Tarley.

But would they have Randyll Tarley interact with Sam? Randyll is pretty far south. Guess HBO can make more changes and use Sam as an ambassador and send him to Kings Landing for aid.

Sam story arc has been rather slow going and meh. Sams interactions with Jon are fun, his love arc with Gilly is a bit drab.

AAR, there is a funny meme making the rounds on face book of Gilly's baby still a baby, and the lannister kids grew up all in the same time period. Magic!





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 clamclaw wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Was surprised the giant survived the fight. (Wonder if Giants can be raised)

Hmm, yeah I was kind of hoping or curious what would happen to the giant. The White Walkers have been shown with risen horses, right? So we know their power is not only for humans.

If wun wun kills the Dallas Cowboy Knight, I would be so happy.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Excellent episode, 9.5/10. We skipped the Sam part at The Wall. To us, that story line is over and we're not wasting time with him. More detailed response after sleep

Seems like the showrunners disagree, as the most recent casting call is certainly calling for Randyl Tarley.

Dead as in "dead weight". His story arc is boring, dull and leads nowhere. It just seems like your average "loser suddenly becomes hero" story slapped on to get some tropes in. Very meh. Worst character in the series.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Excellent episode, 9.5/10. We skipped the Sam part at The Wall. To us, that story line is over and we're not wasting time with him. More detailed response after sleep

Seems like the showrunners disagree, as the most recent casting call is certainly calling for Randyl Tarley.

Dead as in "dead weight". His story arc is boring, dull and leads nowhere. It just seems like your average "loser suddenly becomes hero" story slapped on to get some tropes in. Very meh. Worst character in the series.

According to...you?

Not sure why your hate for Sam is so strong - he did kill a Walker and a Thenn after all!

 Pacific wrote:

 Albatross wrote:
Just reflecting further on the episode, that ending scene is one of my favourite scenes in the entire show. I loved what they did there, the silence, everything.

Yeah that was really well done.

I can't imagine how much that episode cost to make, must have been one of the big spends of the series.

In fact it now makes me think why there might have been a few mis-steps in previous episodes (like the sand snakes or whatever they were called), because they were so focused on getting this one right. There must have been at least 4-5 awesome individual set pieces.

Supposedly it took them 17 days to shoot. Or something like that. It does make you forgive them for Dorne.


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 Piston Honda wrote:
If Val. Steel starts to become a focal point in the show, I have a feeling some how Blackfyre will re-appear somewhere.

Yeah, of the missing swords I think Blackfyre and Brightroar have the best chance to return, based on their associations and/or where they went missing.


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 Bromsy wrote:
I don't buy the Walkers and the Dragons being some directly opposed natural force. We have nothing except coincidence that ties them together.

I mean, look at the timelines - the Long Night happened more than 8,000 years ago, and Walkers basically weren't seen (outside of maybe the lands of always winter) since then. Dragons didn't exist on Westeros until the Conquest, what 300 years before current era?

There were as many as 20 dragons living in Westeros a hundred and thirty years after the conquest; and yet no Walkers. The walkers started returning before Daenerys's dragons hatched. I don't think we have a reason for the walkers to return at this point, and I honestly doubt we will get a deep convoluted reason - ever. I'm betting it will be a 'this just happened now'.

Dragons will most likely be a potent weapon against the walkers if they ever meet; but I doubt their relationship is causal.

It's really hard to say. Dragonglass -- found in abundance on Dragonstone -- and "dragonsteel" being effective against the Others would seem to suggest *something*.

But with GRRM not being a fan of simplistic good/evil narratives, it's probably safe to say that the series won't ultimately be about "bad ice/Others/etc." versus "good fire/dragons/etc." And I think Martin has hinted that enough in the novels. Some major twists are probably in store that will have us rethinking many things.

To me, that world seems like a land steeped in forgetfulness. They've forgotten about the true nature of magic, the true nature of R'hllor and the Others, the reason for the conflict with the Others, the original purpose of the Wall and Night's Watch, etc. And personally I feel like Martin will explore many of those things before the series is over. Maybe I'm wrong. *shrug*

 gorgon wrote:

To me, that world seems like a land steeped in forgetfulness. They've forgotten about the true nature of magic, the true nature of R'hllor and the Others, the reason for the conflict with the Others, the original purpose of the Wall and Night's Watch, etc. And personally I feel like Martin will explore many of those things before the series is over. Maybe I'm wrong. *shrug*

Martin might. But it will be through 76 POV characters that no one has heard from before and they will all be in the next book which won't cover a single thing about existing characters except for a tease that some day Dany and Tyrion might meet.....

Love the show. Loathe Martin as an author.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Excellent episode, 9.5/10. We skipped the Sam part at The Wall. To us, that story line is over and we're not wasting time with him. More detailed response after sleep

Seems like the showrunners disagree, as the most recent casting call is certainly calling for Randyl Tarley.

Victarion Greyjoy it sounds more like.

I hope this season actually has Stannis Prove to everyone he is a badass.

I think personally we might see someone else die I have a pretty good idea who it is.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

To me, that world seems like a land steeped in forgetfulness. They've forgotten about the true nature of magic, the true nature of R'hllor and the Others, the reason for the conflict with the Others, the original purpose of the Wall and Night's Watch, etc. And personally I feel like Martin will explore many of those things before the series is over. Maybe I'm wrong. *shrug*

Martin might. But it will be through 76 POV characters that no one has heard from before and they will all be in the next book which won't cover a single thing about existing characters except for a tease that some day Dany and Tyrion might meet.....

Love the show. Loathe Martin as an author.

As an author? I dunno. If you're going to punish him for the last two books, you still have to praise him for the first three.

As a person...well, it almost seems at times that his entire goal has become to troll his own fans.

 gorgon wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

To me, that world seems like a land steeped in forgetfulness. They've forgotten about the true nature of magic, the true nature of R'hllor and the Others, the reason for the conflict with the Others, the original purpose of the Wall and Night's Watch, etc. And personally I feel like Martin will explore many of those things before the series is over. Maybe I'm wrong. *shrug*

Martin might. But it will be through 76 POV characters that no one has heard from before and they will all be in the next book which won't cover a single thing about existing characters except for a tease that some day Dany and Tyrion might meet.....

Love the show. Loathe Martin as an author.

As an author? I dunno. If you're going to punish him for the last two books, you still have to praise him for the first three.

As a person...well, it almost seems at times that his entire goal has become to troll his own fans.

Which is why people don't like him.

His books are great. But they are not the literary work of a genius.

They still have many flaws.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

To me, that world seems like a land steeped in forgetfulness. They've forgotten about the true nature of magic, the true nature of R'hllor and the Others, the reason for the conflict with the Others, the original purpose of the Wall and Night's Watch, etc. And personally I feel like Martin will explore many of those things before the series is over. Maybe I'm wrong. *shrug*

Martin might. But it will be through 76 POV characters that no one has heard from before and they will all be in the next book which won't cover a single thing about existing characters except for a tease that some day Dany and Tyrion might meet.....

Love the show. Loathe Martin as an author.

I like the books... but the show is an improvement.

Watching the episode for the second time now. Skipped straight to Hardhome.


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 DarkLink wrote:


I like the books... but the show is an improvement.

Not always.