Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2018/04/26 16:24:22
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
No spore cysts in a list with 12 carnifexes? They really are not as durable as you would expect. With spore cysts they will be a major headache for your opponent.
14000
15000
4000
2018/04/26 17:49:09
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
PartyMuffin wrote: Long time lurker, not much of a chatter... but no one is answering my question online.
Before game starts:
Unit of genestealers use Jormungandr stratagem to burrow.
Turn 1 movement:
Previously deployed lictor moves up the field (like normal)
End of turn 1 movement:
Unit of tunneling raveners using Pheromone Trail stratagem tunnel towards the Lictor up field.
Unit of burrowed genestealers then burrow to raveners now on the table.
So my questions are:
1. Can I use pheromone trail turn 1 to tunnel raveners outside my deployment zone?
If so....
2. Can I tunnel a previously burrowed infantry unit (using Jormungandr stratagem) to the just "un-tunneled" raveners?
Hmmm.... yeah hard to say. i think its technically deep striking outside your deployment zone T1. Though it could be similar to da jump or necron decevier strat.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
the raveners can't use PT to deploy out of their deployment zone T1 if you're using the beta rules; neither can the stealers use enemy below to do the same.
PT is still non-functional.
that thread on the hive has a whole lot of wishful thinking and not actually reading the stratagem going on.
2018/04/27 05:48:58
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Can't we all just accept that there is no way around the "no-T1-deepstrike" and together come up with some tactics to overcome this?
If you strategy were to overload the opponent T1, sorry but that doesn't work anymore. It sucks, but a good player tries to overcome it not find a loop-hole.
I my opinion a unit of stealers T1-charge is still very good but the problem is synapse. Before you could deepstrike a flyrant or warriors but that’s not a option anymore. Played around 15 games since the FAQ, only comp-matches, and to get in a 20-strong genestealers coming out of deepstrike is very hard! The footprint is to freakin’ big… especially if the come in with a prime.
Solution?
1. Swarmy may be an option but if focused down, the whole strategy is out the window.
2. Malanthropes is mandatory now, gunlines is very hard to deal with. That extra protection is vital!
3. Hormogaunts flooding the table and tying up things will be very important.
4. Flyrants is still amazing, 3 is enough for you to bring the pain.
5. Dakkafexes is back for real. 115pts is nothing for the pain this creature brings.
The FAQ is here to stay, adjust or you will lose
Swarm all!
2018/04/27 06:43:11
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
While the above is true, remember that the synapse extension from the sporocyst only works if you use the same hive fleet.
If you take kronos sporocysts (which is almost always the ones you should take) then they only extend synapse of kronos models.
The only benefit of taking a Kraken sporocyst would be that the spores it spawns could get the good advance rolls and for synapse. Kronos for rerolling 1's to hit and the deepest shadow stratagem is almost always better and you could even argue leviathan for the FNP is good.
JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG
2018/04/27 12:14:15
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Solution?
1. Swarmy may be an option but if focused down, the whole strategy is out the window.
2. Malanthropes is mandatory now, gunlines is very hard to deal with. That extra protection is vital!
3. Hormogaunts flooding the table and tying up things will be very important.
4. Flyrants is still amazing, 3 is enough for you to bring the pain.
5. Dakkafexes is back for real. 115pts is nothing for the pain this creature brings.
The FAQ is here to stay, adjust or you will lose
So... a balanced list then? Because that is what it looks like it has to be. A mix of fast, chaff units to tie up stuff along with heavy-hitters and support. Basically, GW wants us to play 'Nids like we see them in the fluff.
NackaNid wrote: Can't we all just accept that there is no way around the "no-T1-deepstrike" and together come up with some tactics to overcome this?
If one really wants a turn 1 melee alpha strike one could always run a detachment of Genestealer Cult. A Cult Vanguard with 40 Purestrain Genestealers, two Primus, and a minimum Aberrant unit with hammers is only 896 points (a Hive Fleet equivalent using Trygons to deliver the same number of 'stealers comes to roughly 816 points). Alternatively, a Cult Battalion with two Primus and three 10-strong squads of Acolytes with Rock Saws comes to ~650 points and provides 5 more CP to play with in addition to first turn alpha strike potential.
I my opinion a unit of stealers T1-charge is still very good but the problem is synapse.
The Dominion psychic power solves this to an extent. It has a 36'' reach and lasts until your next psychic phase so the opponent can't disrupt it by killing the closest synapse models.
Malanthropes is mandatory now, gunlines is very hard to deal with. That extra protection is vital!
Having played with both, I think Venomthropes might be a more efficient option for front-line operations. Prior to the FAQ I've been making use of two broods of Venomthropes and they've been working better for me than my lone Malanthrope. For a mere 30 points more, the two Venomthrope broods cover a lot more area with their version of the Spore Cloud and are significantly more dangerous fighters due to their Toxic Lashes (actually a very good weapon - built in rerolls to wound paired with D3 damage per wound and the ability to shoot into combat with the exact same profile as their melee version). The only area I've felt the Malanthrope superior is protecting back-field artillery, since said role wastes the combat capabilities of the Venomthropes and the Malanthrope also provides synapse coverage to keep the guns on target.
Admittedly, I've been making fairly heavy use of Hydra and Jormungander lately. Both naturally prefer Venomthropes due to their stratagems only working with Infantry so they don't have quite as much synergy with the Malanthrope.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/27 12:28:10
2018/04/27 12:47:07
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Venomthropes can be shot directly, the Malanthrope is a character. That should make the Mal survive much longer. It also has Synapse, so that is another perk.
It also takes up an HQ slot, which we need to do to fill out battalions. If you take a Venomthrope, then they have a 70pt tax because you need to take a Neurothrope for the HQ slot and synapse.
6000+
2500
2000
2000
2018/04/27 14:35:15
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
NackaNid wrote: Can't we all just accept that there is no way around the "no-T1-deepstrike" and together come up with some tactics to overcome this?
If you strategy were to overload the opponent T1, sorry but that doesn't work anymore. It sucks, but a good player tries to overcome it not find a loop-hole.
I my opinion a unit of stealers T1-charge is still very good but the problem is synapse. Before you could deepstrike a flyrant or warriors but that’s not a option anymore. Played around 15 games since the FAQ, only comp-matches, and to get in a 20-strong genestealers coming out of deepstrike is very hard! The footprint is to freakin’ big… especially if the come in with a prime.
Solution?
Spoiler:
1. Swarmy may be an option but if focused down, the whole strategy is out the window.
2. Malanthropes is mandatory now, gunlines is very hard to deal with. That extra protection is vital!
3. Hormogaunts flooding the table and tying up things will be very important.
4. Flyrants is still amazing, 3 is enough for you to bring the pain.
5. Dakkafexes is back for real. 115pts is nothing for the pain this creature brings.
The FAQ is here to stay, adjust or you will lose
Shrikes. Running along with the Genestealers.
Edit:
Using Harpys/Crones for turn 1 Assault, now everyone thinks nothing can happen turn1...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/27 17:43:26
24.000 Tyranids painted, still rising in numbers
4.000 Genestealer Cult
7.000
2018/04/27 17:49:07
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
NackaNid wrote: Can't we all just accept that there is no way around the "no-T1-deepstrike" and together come up with some tactics to overcome this?
If you strategy were to overload the opponent T1, sorry but that doesn't work anymore. It sucks, but a good player tries to overcome it not find a loop-hole.
I my opinion a unit of stealers T1-charge is still very good but the problem is synapse. Before you could deepstrike a flyrant or warriors but that’s not a option anymore. Played around 15 games since the FAQ, only comp-matches, and to get in a 20-strong genestealers coming out of deepstrike is very hard! The footprint is to freakin’ big… especially if the come in with a prime.
Solution?
Spoiler:
1. Swarmy may be an option but if focused down, the whole strategy is out the window.
2. Malanthropes is mandatory now, gunlines is very hard to deal with. That extra protection is vital!
3. Hormogaunts flooding the table and tying up things will be very important.
4. Flyrants is still amazing, 3 is enough for you to bring the pain.
5. Dakkafexes is back for real. 115pts is nothing for the pain this creature brings.
The FAQ is here to stay, adjust or you will lose
Shrikes. Running along with the Genestealers.
Edit:
Using Harpys/Crones for turn 1 Assault, now everyone thinks nothing can happen turn1...
Venoms shroud monsters if their unit size is 4+, which can be pricey. And easy to negate.
Shrikes are in the Index, they’re an older unit without an official model. Basically warriors with 12” movement, though without the warrior keyword so no synergy with a Prime.
Regarding sporocysts, I’ve been running 3 with Leviathan and daisy chaining synapse up the field for mass feel no pains on all my fast assaulters, since all my synapse are slow neurothropes and malanthropes.
2018/04/28 00:19:47
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
em_en_oh_pee wrote:Venomthropes can be shot directly, the Malanthrope is a character. That should make the Mal survive much longer. It also has Synapse, so that is another perk.
The character rule does help. My main bother is that they don't protect more than a couple units at a time while a Venomthrope brood of lower or similar cost will generally tag most of the army.
Badablack wrote: Venoms shroud monsters if their unit size is 4+, which can be pricey. And easy to negate.
They only need 3 to shroud monsters, extra models just keep it active for longer or extend the bubble range at 6-strong.
2018/04/28 04:27:28
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
It's actually helpful to hear about venomthropes. I play in no-fw meta so option to run malanthrope is rare. I also prefer the venomthrope models to malanthrope. I'm new to nids amd reading through this thread has been helpful, thank you all for contributing.
I bought my first nids right before the FAQ dropped, which is a shame as pre-FAQ I had a pretty clear idea what I wanted to do with my nids. Now I'm sort of lost. Did anyone try the beta strike build discussed a couple pages back? The one with flyrants in tactical reserves and starting mawlocs on the table? That sounded interesting. And I could actually see it somewhat working.
-Heresy grows from idleness-
2018/04/28 06:03:36
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Thing is, Malanthropes are 1 model with a 3" bubble. That's not a lot of models especially with the size of the main models we probably want to be protecting right, especially when factoring in terrain, and it severely restricts their movement too, theseunits have to remain within spitting distance of a 5" movespeed Malanthrope. As for Venomthrope, they cover the needed ground a lot better but won't cover the important models if one gets killed, which is easy to do because no character, and they don't provide synapse.
I don't think either unit is particularly good at its own role and both have next to zero offensive presence, I don't think either will ever make back the points cost in wounds prevented.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/28 06:17:22
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/04/28 06:07:10
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2018/04/28 06:15:43
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
A lot of changes to get caught up on. Just happy to see you back and excited. I recall our time here during the 6th books release.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2018/04/28 06:25:30
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
A lot of changes to get caught up on. Just happy to see you back and excited. I recall our time here during the 6th books release.
Thanks man! Good to see you still here as well. While I don't think I can practically ever match the enthusiasm I had for the game around 6th again (had a lot more free time back then, I'm... actually not that excited for this current edition, truth be told. Well, while I am excited for 40k, just not so much Nids, I'm actually pretty close to trading off my army for something new. I might hold on to enough to keep a list depending on what I can find to trade for, as it stands I feel I'm just playing Nids temporarily for the time being. I dunno, I'm still a little torn about it.
Badablack wrote: Shrikes are in the Index, they’re an older unit without an official model. Basically warriors with 12” movement, though without the warrior keyword so no synergy with a Prime.
FAQ Index Xenos 2, 2nd page on the middle left:
Page 89 – Tyranid Prime, Alpha Warrior
Change this ability to read:
‘You can add 1 to hit rolls for all <Hive Fleet> Tyranid
Warrior units and <Hive Fleet> Tyranid Shrike units that are within 6" of any friendly <Hive Fleet>
Tyranid Primes.’
24.000 Tyranids painted, still rising in numbers
4.000 Genestealer Cult
7.000
2018/04/28 08:50:05
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Badablack wrote: Shrikes are in the Index, they’re an older unit without an official model. Basically warriors with 12” movement, though without the warrior keyword so no synergy with a Prime.
FAQ Index Xenos 2, 2nd page on the middle left:
Page 89 – Tyranid Prime, Alpha Warrior
Change this ability to read:
‘You can add 1 to hit rolls for all <Hive Fleet> Tyranid
Warrior units and <Hive Fleet> Tyranid Shrike units that are within 6" of any friendly <Hive Fleet>
Tyranid Primes.’
I’m goin go the London GT in May, I know for sure I won’t win all my games, because well- I am not tactical genius. But does my list look decent enough to fight against other armies using the new beta rules / FAQ?
The missions are eternal war primary with maelstrom secondary so I’ve gone for a reasonably fast army with the ability to deep strike some rippers later into the game for objective grabbing.
The warriors are there to give a bit more synanpse to the backfield as well as some heavy Bolter shots... thanks for any feedback!
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) [104 PL, 2000pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kraken
Stratagem: Bounty of the Hive Fleet (-1 CP): 1 Extra Bio-artefact
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Wilson wrote: I’m goin go the London GT in May, I know for sure I won’t win all my games, because well- I am not tactical genius. But does my list look decent enough to fight against other armies using the new beta rules / FAQ?
The missions are eternal war primary with maelstrom secondary so I’ve gone for a reasonably fast army with the ability to deep strike some rippers later into the game for objective grabbing.
The warriors are there to give a bit more synanpse to the backfield as well as some heavy Bolter shots... thanks for any feedback!
Spoiler:
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) [104 PL, 2000pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kraken
Stratagem: Bounty of the Hive Fleet (-1 CP): 1 Extra Bio-artefact
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
I would make it two battalions. And take the lictor and the warriors out. make the hive guard 1x6 so they can all be affected by the stratagem. Do have more Genestealers, or Exocrine, Tyranofex, neurothropes ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/28 09:45:22
2018/04/28 10:01:26
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Wilson wrote: I’m goin go the London GT in May, I know for sure I won’t win all my games, because well- I am not tactical genius. But does my list look decent enough to fight against other armies using the new beta rules / FAQ?
The missions are eternal war primary with maelstrom secondary so I’ve gone for a reasonably fast army with the ability to deep strike some rippers later into the game for objective grabbing.
The warriors are there to give a bit more synanpse to the backfield as well as some heavy Bolter shots... thanks for any feedback!
Spoiler:
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) [104 PL, 2000pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kraken
Stratagem: Bounty of the Hive Fleet (-1 CP): 1 Extra Bio-artefact
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
I would make it two battalions. And take the lictor and the warriors out. make the hive guard 1x6 so they can all be affected by the stratagem. Do have more Genestealers, or Exocrine, Tyranofex, neurothropes ?
They don’t allow duplicate detachments ,which is stupid because of the rule of 3. But that’s another argument.... I do have a few more stealers, and a exocrine but no tyranofex or neurothrope - although the latter I could add , if the forum thinks it’s a good addition?
2018/04/28 12:00:11
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Badablack wrote: Shrikes are in the Index, they’re an older unit without an official model. Basically warriors with 12” movement, though without the warrior keyword so no synergy with a Prime.
FAQ Index Xenos 2, 2nd page on the middle left:
Page 89 – Tyranid Prime, Alpha Warrior
Change this ability to read:
‘You can add 1 to hit rolls for all <Hive Fleet> Tyranid
Warrior units and <Hive Fleet> Tyranid Shrike units that are within 6" of any friendly <Hive Fleet>
Tyranid Primes.’
But the current prime does not have this.
But the FAQ is from 16th of April 2018. So why not use it?
So i use the "index prime" if someone gets excited about it. Because it seems HE has this rule even though the codex prime dont have it, if you want to argue RAW.
24.000 Tyranids painted, still rising in numbers
4.000 Genestealer Cult
7.000
14000
15000
4000 
10000+
8500+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
6000+
2000
