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 Mr Morden wrote:


Can you have all of these loadouts in the game?

Nope.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, seems like whining for the sake of whining.

 judgedoug wrote:
I thought there was a separate complaint discussion thread?

Well they are at least discussing the topic rather than just complaining about people "whining" - perhaps actually contributing to the thread instead of complainning about other posters might be more useful for us all.

One of the stated reasons for the inclusion of mostly plastic models was that they are easier to convert - fair enough but then to remove so many possible options is just pathetic.

What balance issues would have been generated by allowing say Guard models to take extra close combat weapons?

When your complaint is "I wanted this to be a different game" I'm not sure what useful discussion there is to be had.

No the majority fo complaints are

Why did they not include Unit X when they included unit Y
Why are they not allowing options that are in the basic unit template they are copy pasting from.
Why are they not allowing cusotmisation

You forgot "if they're hard-dedicated to making the core rules identical to base 40k and sacrificing all the possibilities of rebalance that come with that, why can't I use my existing collection of 40k models for this game?"

This game has examples of options you can take that are not included in the base kits (just bolter deathwatch vets, ork nobz with Big Choppa/Kombi-weapons, Hekatrix with a PGL, Guardsmen with plasma guns/melta guns/sniper rifles) and options that you can't take that are included in the base kits (Guard sergeant with boltgun, powerfist, storm guardian with power sword, deathwatch vet with chainsword/plasma pistol/bolt pistol)

You must be new to Guard. The Cadian Command Squad comes with a Plasma Gun, a Melta Gun, a Flamer, a Grendade Launcher, a Sniper Rifle, a Heavy Flamer, a Bolt Pistol, a Power Fist, a Plasma Pistol, a Chain Sword, and a Power Sword. The only option you are missing is a Bolter and that is something that is super easy to buy as a bit.

You can hardly complain about Storm Guardians. They were only included because it would be weird to not include them. GW has negelcted them for what feels like a decade or more.

My original complaint was that the squad of monopose Deathwatch Veterans that came with the initial release of the Deathwatch had more models locked into loadouts that were illegal for Kill Team than loadouts that were legal.

The response to that was essentially "you want to use totally unrelated models in this game you privileged whiner, the only rules support deathwatch get is for the Deathwatch Veterans TM Multi-Part Plastic Model Kit From Games Workshop LTD and you should be glad for that!"

The options you list for guard from the Command Squad kit should not be supported in Kill Team because Cadian Command Squad TM is not Cadian Infantry Squad TM. Also, it seems strange that half the options included in the command squad (Sniper Rifle, Plasma, Melta) are available but the other half (Heavy Flamer, Bolter (if you're using Catachans), Powerfist) are not.

The Command Squad Box has always come with more options. That was the incentive to buy the box. Originally you had a 20 man large squad of Guardsmen with basic kit, then you could upgrade them with the Command Squad kit.

Baseline a Deathwatch Vet is 14 points. At most, you can field 7 guys. You are definitely going to field less than that once you upgrade them. The 10 man box comes with 10 bolt guns, 10 power swords, 4 power mauls, 4 shot guns, 4 storm shields, etc. The only thing you will be lacking is the ability to spam one type of Combi Weapon.

Also, the mono pose ones were not designed for this game. They were created for a totally separate game. I think it is unrealistic to ask GW to future proof their monopose models to work with a game that has not been developed yet, for an edition that has not been released yet.

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Can you have all of these loadouts in the game?

Nope.

Yeah thought not = brilliant

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
So the dice come separate from the starters they're associated with? And in the same week that new starters are released, which then have to wait for their own dice*? That's odd.

*We are getting more than just Space Wolves and Orks, right?

Tyranid and Astra Militarium are getting them according to next week's list, and Miniature Market has Genestealer Cult dice on preorder.

Cool, thanks.

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Can you have all of these loadouts in the game?

Nope.

As of right now, nope.

But the guy with the Shotgun is modeled as a Veteran. They just copy/pasted the picture from the Guard codex--and Veterans can take Shotguns and Autoguns.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I do rather miss shotguns in the Guard list.

They even had a picture of a model with a shotgun in the Astra Militarum faction focus!

Can you have all of these loadouts in the game?

All but the shotgun and the axe (though you could just say the axe counts as either a power sword or chainsword).

Technically though, that's a genestealer cultist shotgun on that guardsman, IIRC the only guard models with shotguns were metal catachans. The current catachan plastics are all lasguns.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Can you have all of these loadouts in the game?

Nope.

As of right now, nope.

But the guy with the Shotgun is modeled as a Veteran. They just copy/pasted the picture from the Guard codex--and Veterans can take Shotguns and Autoguns.

It’s only the guy woth the shotgun and the one with the axe that can’t be used in Kill Team; all the others are just based lasgun grunts.

That said, there’s definitely something off with Guard, with the regular Guardsmen being split up over two squad types, even though the Gunners and regular Guardsmen in both squads have the exact same options. It seems like they had to copy the squads from the codex, but then why aren’t Heavy Weapons an option? Similar weird things are happening with Adeptus and Heretic Astartes, though in the case of the former we already have confirmation that Chapter variants are coming, so those will probably take care of most oddities for them. Maybe we’ll get a proper veteran option for Guard as well, eventually.

All that said, I’m still looking forward to having both a Grunt and an elite Guard Kill Team. Guard can have the most models in one Kill team after Orks and Tyranids, while still having room for options (4 gunners with Special Weapons).

 axisofentropy wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:
Now that people have access to the rule book I was wondering how many differences are from SWA to the new Kill team.


No weapon Templates
Close Combat is now just rolled off the WS stat; instead of adding WS to die roll and comparing.
Ready Action
Turns are now single model back and forth like bolt action.


Here is what I have picked up so far.. what else is there??

Shadow war's rules came from the old necromunda roles, which themselves came from 2nd edition 40k. The new Kill Team is much like 8th edition 40k. They're both GW so may be more alike than other games, but they're as different as two GW games can be.

Watching the postings of battle reports online, I can say it very much resembles the new necromunda playstyle from what i have seen


Watch the How To Play video on the Kill Team site. Answers this question and more.

Has anyone tallied up the points for the faction boxes as shown? I did the AM one and it only comes in at 57pts.

I was under the impression these were meant to be a Kill Team in a box type deal.

It's part of a kill team and super cheap terrain, with rules, as a bundle.

For AM You'd like only need that box and then a box of AM Infantry and you could call it a day,

Chances are the teams from the boxed sets have experience baked in to make them closer to 100 pts.

 BrookM wrote:
Chances are the teams from the boxed sets have experience baked in to make them closer to 100 pts.

Yup! Each box has a roster for a kill-team specifically named and everything.

 BrookM wrote:
Chances are the teams from the boxed sets have experience baked in to make them closer to 100 pts.

So not relevant to matched play.

I mean I have a massive collection as it is so me shoring up the numbers for a full Kill Team isn't even an issue. It does make suckering friends into it a little more difficult though.

 Dr_Keenbean wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Chances are the teams from the boxed sets have experience baked in to make them closer to 100 pts.

So not relevant to matched play.

I mean I have a massive collection as it is so me shoring up the numbers for a full Kill Team isn't even an issue. It does make suckering friends into it a little more difficult though.

If anything, I would think it would make it easier since it gives them premade lists for Kill Team.

 Dr_Keenbean wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Chances are the teams from the boxed sets have experience baked in to make them closer to 100 pts.

So not relevant to matched play.

I mean I have a massive collection as it is so me shoring up the numbers for a full Kill Team isn't even an issue. It does make suckering friends into it a little more difficult though.

Can you play a game with what's in the expansions only. Yes. Is it enough to fill out a protypical matched play list, no, but then neither do any of GW's other start collecting or core starter boxes feature prototypical matched play armies. Quite the opposite in fact, especially with under min size units in the starters that will require additional purchases to make them legal for matched play

Does that bother me? Not really as I understand and accept that from the standpoint that GW's business model depends on follow on purchases, that they are going to structure their retail offerings to entice customer's to buy more.

 BrookM wrote:
From Black Library, maybe the first of a series of Kill Team themed short stories?

https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/eshort-choke-point.html

For three weeks, the battered remnants of the Kilgannor 27th Astra Militarum have held the line against the frenzied assaults of Waaagh! Zogreb. Now, deliverance arrives in the form of Commissar Dorin and his troopers, Militarum Tempestus of the famed Delphic Lions. But survival is not enough… When the commissar drafts Lieutenant Kaseen and his surviving soldiers into a dangerous mission that could change the tide of battle, the Kilgannor troopers face victory… or death.

Wish that was free, like AoS Portent things.

Also, where is my KT commissar, GW?

the_scotsman wrote:
The deathwatch upgrade sprue only contains shoulderpads, it does not contain a way for me to make a Deathwatch Veteran with a boltgun and no other weapon. Doing that requires me to either use one of the models from Squad Donatus (which are Special Named Characters from a TOTALLY different game system, so wanting their monopose loadouts to be supported is a ridiculous suggestion) or to get bits from other marine sprues.

I like how you don't even know the contents of the box you had the energy to complain for pages now. Take one arm holding bolter, then other arm holding bolter clip. Glue them on. Magic! Suddenly, bolter-only Vet appears!

Or, you know, you could do the sane thing and ask any marine player (with mountain of bolter arms they always have leftover) for spare one or two, or make DW Kill Team from SM box painted black with DW pads if the above solution requires too much effort

the_scotsman wrote:
Yes, I agree that if I find an opponent who has no problem with mass proxying and counts-as

Nice goalpost shifting at jetbike speed you got there. So, according to you, telling your opponent 'all these bolter-looking weapons in this force using highly unorthodox and varied marks of gear are just bolters, because it's the only bolt weapon they can take anyway mate' is too complicated now?

Honestly, there are better hills to die on than in KT the fact box full of special characters (representing unit types that are missed from KT anyway) requires interpreting one or two bits of gear as (gasp!) the closest equivalent of said bit, and the only equivalent that unit can pick anyway. Pick any of the zillion more sensible issues and move on.

This whole damn thread needs to move on.
Can we agree to leave it for actual news? It's quickly becoming tedious.

I'm going to have loads of fun converting the team kill cassius characters for my kill team deathwatch.

Its been a while since I've flexed my conversion skills, time to start choppin' and changin' with all sorts of crazy cool stuff!

Neronoxx wrote:
This whole damn thread needs to move on.
Can we agree to leave it for actual news? It's quickly becoming tedious.

Yes, can we please stop regurgitating the same arguments ad nauseum, or at the VERY LEAST take it somewhere else NOW?

jullevi wrote:

 Not-not-kenny wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
The two sides of the starter box board (assuming you have two of them, and the reverse of the sector mechanicus board seem to line up like this;

Wouldn't that make it approx. the same size as the Moon Base Klasius board?

No. Moonbase Klaisus board requires 4 Kill Team sized boards.

Has anyone actually measured the Kill Team boards? I know that it says 22"x30" in all descriptions, but Moonbase Klaisus and Blasted Hallowheart boards are made up of 22"x33" sections and I would be surprised if they were different sized.

Since this question got missed in the last several pages of people reiterating their same complaints for the 25th time, as if everyone hadn't already read each one of them, I'll address your question.

The Moon Base Klasius boards are 22"x33" each, and the Kill Team ones are 22"x30" - both have been measured. They are 100% suitable for Kill Team, although I was a little surprised at the difference, however minor it is. Like most weird things GW, I'm sure it has something to do with packaging.

That said, for gaming groups, TOs, or just people who want some different options for Kill Team boards, you essentially get 4 of them plus terrain in the Klasius set. For me, it kind of went from this kit with great terrain, which has sprues you don't get in the STC Ryza Ruins set, to an awesome option for Kill Team.

Now we just need GW to make Martian and Ice World Killzones for those boards...

Ive played 2 full games now and this game is great. Id recommend being careful where you glue the ruined pillar nibs on top of buildings so you can still get the most out of the modularity.

The game is super simple and quick to learn but very nuanced to become good at it. Certain things like horde lists are going to suffer hard in the morale phase while specialized "elite" lists really need to bank on the opponent not getting initiative with a missile launcher or the like.

Multidamage weapons are huge here because if I hit you with six frag shots and wound you with all six you only roll one injury but I hit you with one krak and now you just tripled the injury chance of outright killing models. Its bigger than you think. Also everyone shoots like works and hit like tau in this game. There so many modifiers and ways to help and hurt those actions that once the ball starts rolling the difference between loots and guardsmen is negligible which is really interesting.

Final tip before bed, charge your tarot units on the otherside of ruins and things they can't walk around/over. My haunts tarpitted 6 works in one game and never died, in another I held up and entire marine team with this strategy as my genestealer and Lictor each took out one marine at a time while the haunts just stopped them from shooting and might get in a lucky hit

Too bad GW doesn’t still sell Schaffer’s Last Chancers anymore (and that penal troops are gone from 40K).

Those who have access to the rules: Is it possible to rebuild the Last Chancers with the new KT rules?

Rocket Girl and Ox will have to sit this out for the time being, as no heavy weapons as of yet.

As for the rest, it can be done, but you'll have to use the open play format to get models like Schaeffer, Grease Monkey and Shiv in the same team with their respective loadouts.

Blastaar wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

When your complaint is "I wanted this to be a different game" I'm not sure what useful discussion there is to be had.

So the only discussion that is "useful" is vapid praise? The entire point of criticism is to communicate how something could have been done better, which includes what choices GW could have made when designing 40k Lite.

There's a huge difference between constructive criticism and simply complaining that this game is not a completely different game that you wanted (see all of the people that wanted this to be combat patrol). If you want to tell GW that you want that game then fine but it's got nothing to do with kill team.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

In a thread about an upcoming release of a game for use with 40k models, a complaint that the game's rules do not support a large number of the possible build configurations for one of the factions but do in fact require players to build their models in a way that is impossible with the kit isn't a valid complaint?

KT absolutely does not require DW minis to be built in a way that is not possible with the multipart box, that is an outright fabrication.

For the people trying to photoshop the boards together, I'm sure I read somewhere that the reverse sides have been designed to be put together to create one larger board.

I think it was said on the Warhammer Community site, but I can't for the life of me find the post to quote it.

Do we have a list of upcoming kill team expansions? I'm tempted by the scions one with the terrain. Great value but I was really planning on using catachans in my imperial guard kill team.
Looks like the scions are going to give me some more elite options though do you think?

Abaddon303 wrote:
Do we have a list of upcoming kill team expansions? I'm tempted by the scions one with the terrain. Great value but I was really planning on using catachans in my imperial guard kill team.
Looks like the scions are going to give me some more elite options though do you think?

Other than Rogue Trader - nothing confirmed beyond what's going on pre-order this weekend.

It looks like we're getting a plague planet / death world forest Kill zone at some point, presumably with some Kill Teams.

 BrookM wrote:
Rocket Girl and Ox will have to sit this out for the time being, as no heavy weapons as of yet.

As for the rest, it can be done, but you'll have to use the open play format to get models like Schaeffer, Grease Monkey and Shiv in the same team with their respective loadouts.

The team I put together for the last chancers is a few points short and based on the leak (which is really blurry on the points for a basic guardsman, so I'm assuming that a SWS guardsman costs the same as a regular guardsman ie 5points. There are three breaks from WYSIWYG - Ox is proxied as a scion gunner (his bulging abs account for his increased bulletproofiness) with a hot-shot volley gun, and Rocket Girl is a gunner with a grenade launcher. Grease Monkey is the only one I can't make work, so he's just a guardsman with a lasgun.

Tempestor 10 Power Sword 1 Plasma Pistol 1 (Schaeffer, since he's wearing some sweet body armor)
Tempestor Gunner 10 Volley Gun 3 (ox)
SWS Gunner 5 Meltagun 3
SWS Gunner 5 Sniper Rifle 1
SWS Gunner 5 Grenade Launcher 2
Sergeant 5 Chainsword 0 Plasma Pistol 1
Guardsmen X6 for the rest of them

I believe is 94 points, if that turns out to not be enough for specialists you can not play with Grease Monkey and the rest of them make a nice little team.

Abaddon303 wrote:
Do we have a list of upcoming kill team expansions? I'm tempted by the scions one with the terrain. Great value but I was really planning on using catachans in my imperial guard kill team.
Looks like the scions are going to give me some more elite options though do you think?

So far, the pre-made teams are following the preview order. As said above, they've only announced the Rogue Trader expansion, so far.

the_scotsman wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Rocket Girl and Ox will have to sit this out for the time being, as no heavy weapons as of yet.

As for the rest, it can be done, but you'll have to use the open play format to get models like Schaeffer, Grease Monkey and Shiv in the same team with their respective loadouts.

The team I put together for the last chancers is a few points short and based on the leak (which is really blurry on the points for a basic guardsman, so I'm assuming that a SWS guardsman costs the same as a regular guardsman ie 5points. There are three breaks from WYSIWYG - Ox is proxied as a scion gunner (his bulging abs account for his increased bulletproofiness) with a hot-shot volley gun, and Rocket Girl is a gunner with a grenade launcher. Grease Monkey is the only one I can't make work, so he's just a guardsman with a lasgun.

Tempestor 10 Power Sword 1 Plasma Pistol 1 (Schaeffer, since he's wearing some sweet body armor)
Tempestor Gunner 10 Volley Gun 3 (ox)
SWS Gunner 5 Meltagun 3
SWS Gunner 5 Sniper Rifle 1
SWS Gunner 5 Grenade Launcher 2
Sergeant 5 Chainsword 0 Plasma Pistol 1
Guardsmen X6 for the rest of them

I believe is 94 points, if that turns out to not be enough for specialists you can not play with Grease Monkey and the rest of them make a nice little team.

Your points for the gunners are correct. Besides Schaeffer himself, which of the models has a Plasma pistol? And is Shiv just one of your Lasgun dudes?

If you can ditch the Plasma pistol, you could say Brains has a vox (he has the headset and backpack anyway). A vox is 5 points, so minus the Plasma pistol that'd give you exactly 100 points, and a vox looks to be very useful (giving you rerolls on morale tests).